test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Is It Just Me or....
capnshadow27
Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
is Space just too darn complicated?
I mean you have to contend with Boffs, Weapon types, resists, power levels, armors.
This is partly why, the newer players and myself dont PvP, too many people with perfected builds, and too many varations. Especially when you can have full resists, or nearly so with fleet neutroniums.
Ground is nice because it is so incredibly simple, and then space which is extremely over complicated.
Sad to say this sint even a complete full thought at the moment but i kind of wanted to get started on saying this so i can be burned to the ground by naysayers. But space is EXTREMELY complicated....
I mean you have to contend with Boffs, Weapon types, resists, power levels, armors.
This is partly why, the newer players and myself dont PvP, too many people with perfected builds, and too many varations. Especially when you can have full resists, or nearly so with fleet neutroniums.
Ground is nice because it is so incredibly simple, and then space which is extremely over complicated.
Sad to say this sint even a complete full thought at the moment but i kind of wanted to get started on saying this so i can be burned to the ground by naysayers. But space is EXTREMELY complicated....
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by capnshadow27 on
0
Comments
What kind of games do you enjoy?
Super Mario bros platformers?
I'm going to respectfully disagree based on experience from rpg games in general...
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Yes, space is complicated. But the good news is that you don't need to fully understand the intricacies to have fun.
And as for PvP, the main reason people don't PvP is because they don't like it - it has nothing to do with complexity.
I do rather enjoy a good super mario game now and again yes, also a fan of Skyrim and SW:TOR along with a myriad of other games and game types.
And dont get me wrong here please. Im not saying i dont like the fact that i can mess with my stuff till im blue in the face. Complicated is fine, and is usually really great in SINGLE player games.
Im just saying its OVERLY complicated. THe skill point system makes no sense, everything is Diminished return, 6 points shouldnt be better than 9, so on and so forth.
Consoles dont do what they say they do. they go off base, not base for their Mk.
Tons of modifiers, this that AND the OTHER thing.
Complication is great, but 600 variables is a bit much....
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I would actually say that Space is way too simple, but that's just my own subjective take on it. It would be pretty nice if they were to steal some things from Nexus, FTL, or Star Wolves for example, all of which are much heavier on the micromanagement and on the tactical choices. The way it is now it puts too much emphasis on 'build' and 'rotation' and too little on actual, well... tactics.
I am going from personal experience on that part, but its not a lot of fun when you cant scratch a ship with maximum buffage on yours. Just saying.
Yes i am talking about PvP, as PvE is dumb easy in space and is only a decent challenge on the ground.
A few less variables would be really really nice is all im saying.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Might help to fill in the gaps between all those lock box reminders and interviews.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Thats kind of what i mean, the builds and stuff are too much, too many "things" not enough actual tactic. its just fly, shoot, repeat. Grind buy better TRIBBLE, repeat. DEVS put out even better TRIBBLE. repeat all.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
it will be maybe 50% customizable kits. As they will still be locked into their respective profession (which isnt 100% customization IMHO) 5 bucks says they "help ground by adding boots that act like engines, and a moveable power level bar saet like in space.
Forum PvP is balanced! its about the only Blanace this game has and thats really really funny/sad.
And the Metagame is all about damage.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
One thing I think would be great is give each ship the correct canon amount of weapons but equalize how much damage each does, limit what can be slotted where, and lower the DPS each can do to a reasonable amount for how many weapons each has. Then ships with less weapon slots can have special abilities that make up for the differance. As for consoles limit those to 2 of 1 type. Torpedo and mines should have ammo, you slot a mine launcher or a torp launcher and the ammo is what type it is and limited on how much you can carry to 1 stack or 250.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Why not allow cross-profession skills? Since you can't spend points in the ground skills to make them better, you'll just really suck at using them.
Never happen, you would end up with tacs and sci running around like mad engineers throwing turrets and mortars everywhere.... I know thats exactly what i would do.
Turret, Mortar, Plasma Grenade, Chroniton mine and somthing else dangerous and 'splodey
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'd be in Ambush, Stealth Mod, Weapon Malf, Fuse Armor, Med Tric.
"Spy's sappin' mah sentry!"
:cool:
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
only problem is stealth sucks on ground, at least in PvE everything see's you anyway...
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Oh my thank you! here i thought other people had never had to endlessly debate things because it was all so easy and straight forward...
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Teamwork can be shown on a similar note, skills can be learnt. But instinct, that takes time.
Honestly if anything, there is just a ton of TRIBBLE out there in the game anymore that people have to toil through. Rep grinds, getting fleet gear, having the know-how in the first place to do it, and that kinda thing.
Heck, a simple thing that can improve folk's gameplay with others in anything in this game is to always have the thought of 'how can I help my team' over 'how can I help just myself'. PvE or PvP, have that in mind and things can be a lot easier for you already. (Pugging aside of course, that is ALWAYS a toss-up)
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nah, the women that require decoder rings are just way too much damn work. Though on the other hand of that the ones that are way too obvious are too damn easy.
Just like my women i like to have a challenge in my gaming without too much math involved.....
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The game itself isn't hard. The people you play with, depending on their intelligence and a variety of other factors end up making it harder than it actually is.
Ground combat is easy once you rebind your keyboard commands to work for you. I typically play ground combat with one hand, using my other hand on the mouse to simply pan the camera around and do manual targeting when I need to. It also helps to run ground missions with people who know what they're doing.
Most of the time people complaining about the game being hard are really complaining about the game being hard because they use the public queues, which is where bad players go.
Sometimes their opinions have merit if something is understandably broken or bugged. But more often than not it's the other players that make the game hard, not the game system itself.
just in weapons alone.
you have Damage A that comes with Proc A, and modifier a, b, c, or d in any number of combinations.
then Damage A with Proc B, and the same generated combinations of modifiers.
Add in power drains, which vary between weapon types(beam - cannon) firing rates of said weapons which changes the impact of said power drain, AND power levels.
THATS JUST WEAPONS.
Move on to ships themselves and some stuff just doesn't add up.
You get +power to random and/or various subsystems, which isnt dependant on ship size. Big old cruisers dont get extra power into their subsystems, they just get the same amount into different ones.
Boffs, and Doffs are pretty straightforward.
And again i am not saying the game is hard or easy or anything, just that it can be pretty complicated, especially when you get into PvP where all these things add to the already lacking balance between the factions themselves.
I'm not whining, i'm not complaining nor am i griping. I am observing, reporting and attempting to discuss.
I'll put on my tinfoil hat and head for the hills with the best of them. So please maybe start looking at this a little more objectively.
Add input one way or another, Don't just puff your chest and blow hot air everywhere. Give this little thing called feedback.
WHY do you think there is no comnplication to space?
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't think the game is hard or complex, but I do believe he may have a point about the game over-complicating the very act of playing the damn game.
Take the three examples I did mention: Nexus, FTL, and Star Wolves. All those games are way (way, way) harder than STO will ever be, and their gameplay is far more involved and 'complex', yet they don't put any extra layers of meh between you and the game. They are complicated and hard because they have many systems interacting with each other, not because you need to grind moar, or buy particular things, or equip particular powers. It comes down to your skill as a player and the quality of your tactics, and even among the top-players you will find vastly different gameplay styles and 'builds.'
In STO there comes a moment where a player who has been getting 1st or 2nd place in every single Fleet Action she did play can't at times make 3rd place once she reaches the level cap simply because of the grind, and the reputation, and the consoles, and the lockbox ships, much less play competitively in PvP.
So by reading the OP's answers I don't think he really meant the game is 'complex' or 'hard' as much as he meant the gameplay is adds a layer of 'complexity' between you and the game that is not related to the game itself and how good you are at it, and it is needlessly obscure about how good or bad half the things on it are. It's less of 'you have those tools, learn them and master them and develop your own way of playing with them' as much as it is 'you have those tools, many of which are completely useless, and many of which are so incredibly better than anything else, and that in many cases work in a counter-intuitive manner, and by playing X or Y you are actually gimping yourself by no mistake of your own, and a much worse player can actually hold his own against you not because he's a better player but because he did grind X and Y far more than you did and spent Z in getting this ship and that console.'
I.E: It has a layer of complexity that isn't related to the gameplay itself. It isn't 'OMG, this game's mechanics are so complex and they interact with each other in so many ways I will need weeks or months to just begin to understand it all!' but 'OMG, I have to go through all this TRIBBLE, grind like mad, and read both the forums and the wiki in detail, much of the information on which are completely outdated, just to be able to play this mechanically very simple game. Oh, joy.'
This is kind of shown in how the game seems to only have two modes: So easy as to be stupid, you just walk through it without needing to put a second thought on anything, and 'fake difficulty' mode, in which the enemies are still brain dead and unable of even the most basic tactics but with a metric ton of HP and +% on everything they do, so it doesn't come down to 'better tactics and knowledge of the underlying mechanics' as much as it comes down to 'Moar DPS, moar tanking, and I hope you don't mind wasting much longer to kill the same braindead enemy.'
It kind of goes against the 'easy to play, hard to master' rule to become 'ridiculously easy to master, but needlessly hard to actually play.'
There is too much stacking, and stacking leads to overpowered builds that make everything else not minmaxed look like garbage by comparison.
if the devs removed the ability for more than one console to stack, you would see the entire game change literally in one patch to something that actually had balance.
Example: I was training one of my fleetmates in PvP today, and I took my five tactical consoles off. It was actually a good solid fight because he was able to actually handle my DPS output on his undergeared newbie level 40 ship for quite some time before I caught an open facing and nailed him. (skill and experience won the fight there)
When I put my tac consoles in, it was instant death for him, do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars. (gear won that fight, pure and simple)
Its fricken stupid, there I said it.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
this ^^^^ i agree there is to much stacking console and boff wise captains to me in the show won by skills and experience or just sheer dumb luck
system Lord Baal is dead
Something like this would bring something that this game has lost and may never find; Balance.
And the sad part is that by the time you get to Level 50 everyone is basically just using the same equipment and Doffs, Boffs, etc because those are the only things that really matter. So we all grind for the exact same Omega Gear, and Rep Gear, Fleet Ships, etc. Too many fiddly-bits sub-50 that end up not mattering at 50.
Amen to that sir.
I still like the idea of diminishing returns myself, but your idea makes sense too. It would make escorts as squishy as they are meant to be since they'd actually sacrifice survivability for fire power and so on.
Sadly it would never happen. Players who spent tons of Zen, EC and time on maxed out ships would throw a fit. Cryptic could no longer follow their usual 'add moar' ship design philosophy and of course everyone hates change, even if it is for the players benefit.
Hey id be upset too, mate, but if it achieved true game balance id be fully behind it.
ive spent so much money time and effort on my build that losing some things would suck big time... but it wouldnt just be my loss, everyone else would come down too.
The vast majority would still be viable... but the scaling of it would just level off somewhere.
it isnt just consoles either... doffs, boff traits, weapon mods, certain boff abilities... you can take a weapon with a base DPS of 320 and make it do over 5000 DPS for bursts. That is over a 1500 percent increase due to stacking.
=/ Now run 4 of those (or 5 in the case of the scimitar) and tell me anything that could survive that normally.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If everyone is affected equally (which they would be) then I think it's a good step. This game needs balance. The lack of it has resulted in me going from playing 4 hours per day to maybe logging on for 20 minutes every 4 or 5 days.