As far as I can tell, the only thing that got nerfed was stacking the same buff, and tbh that probably wasn't working as intended. Other than some torp and bo boats in pvp, I don't see much of an impact on the pve cookie bfaw or crf builds as they didn't deal with buff stacking.
So now enrgy weapons doff should really lower price in the exchange, from a chance to fire again in 0 secons to a chance to wait a 5 seconds cd, its like not having that active doff... and they are like 7M at the exchange
Mostly nice, though a little disappointed with the change to EPTE. Don't like NPCs and PCs subject to different rules (cuts both ways after all), and would rather have just seen the power toned down but still full duration. Still, quite nice for my 3 scis and my Kar'fi.
To heck with that. I love the nerf on NPC EptE. There is NOTHING that I've found more worrisome lately than ships in fleet alerts and borg spheres hitting EPtE and flying off to, the other side of the starbase, all the way off to the Quadra Sigma planet, the next sector block, especially when you're on a timer. And they make something like gravity well completely irrelevant. They've been almost impossible to intercept. If it cranks their engine to 125 then that is effectively full impulse. There's no way to tone that down as a speed or movement buff. The duration has to be cut just to keep them in combat.
Where to begin. There's so many things on this post mentioned that's good...
Let's start with the main topic:
First off, I too agree that it's not a major nerf to any profession at any rank. The only thing this changes is the ability to fire 2 Beam Overloads or 2 Torpedo High Yield/Spread in rapid succession. Other than that, there is no noticeable difference to the Tac. Boff Abilities. I am also glad to hear that Science Abilities like GW and TR are getting better scaling.
Mainly from the following comments, I heard of two interesting things regarding DPS. One being that there's been a power creep that's all in favor of high end DPS output wins everything and sadly, that's true. The problem lies in 2 areas of the game: The dichotomy between Damage and Health/Resists.
Let me explain: IF STO decided that all the ships should have LOW health...let's say 5k for escort, 6k for Sci, and maybe 8k for cruisers, we wouldn't be complaining about doing too little damage with cannons, beams, torps, etc. that do 2k DPS or even less damage. There would be much more reason to play strategically with positioning since everyone can die easily (some more than others).
However, because we have ships that are 200k+ in elite missions (and sometimes a lot of them), people have no choice, but to resort to every means of high DPS. Any DPS under 3-4k relative to such high health and damage resistance is simply not viable, especially against mission timers. And so, began the power creep of high DPS builds (Tacscorts).
Which is where we are today: we have the situation now where people are complaining about not being able to tank AND not doing enough damage. And if Cryptic implemented even more tanking options OR more damage abilities, this cycle would have come full circle.
I know what I wrote above may be a bit confusing for some, but let me give you a clear example of what I thought STO should have been: If anyone remembers a time long ago when they first started STO, and having shield facings mattered and damage stuck, that's where I'm starting.
The initial feel of space combat was great. Every torpedo mattered, and you could feel the anticipation behind each beam firing, whether it hit or missed. This was the time when every shot counted, and had lasting effect - because regeneration and resistances weren't sky high. But at the same time, it was balanced because it was actually hard to pull off a one shot kill. There was balance because damage was not simply brushed aside, but also not overwhelming in bursts.
Now for part 2 - the alternative to the damage/healing cycle. It is sadly true that STO is DPS centric, but NOT solely because of the power creep of damage abilities, but because there is no other way to defeat an NPC or player except to destroy them with damage. It is because all three classes vie for the same place to shine - Damage. If this game implemented more ways to render a ship/person defeated, this game would have much less DPS/tanking debates and balance issues.
For example, one of the most overlooked systems in the game is crew count. If ships were "defeated" by a crew count of 0 and/or taken over by a hostile boarding party, I could definitely see a huge player base shift to flying cruisers. If ships could reach a point of no return in a gravity well with an instant death or something close, Sci ships would suddenly seem very viable in ESTFs. What if a drain build could actually kill - all power on a ship like life support dies off. The point is, DPS would no longer be the singular way of destroying something in the game.
Just my 2 cents
P.S. Sorry for ranting, but I'm am sick of hearing complaints about anything DPS and Cross Healing related.
This is brilliant. Aside from the subsystem targeting there needs to be more precision firing. Something that really could only work with the game going slower.
Ship injuries before you blow up instead of after. A true disabled status could really be meaningful. For instance perhaps repeated targeting of shields would permanently disable or weaken shields. Knocking someone's shields or weapons offline is not something that should be easily fixable in combat.
But implementing any of these things would require a full revamp and reworking of endgame content which is designed to function under the current systems.
To add to the above different faction ships would have different disable options, for instance the Borg would have the most powerful, boarding team -> Assimilate Ship, then the ship becomes an actual borg ship and you lose control just like with when a character is assimilated. To stop boarding parties I can see a transport inhibitor console coming.
Also, Aceton Assimilators are something that's not supposed to damage a ship at all, they're supposed to kill crew with extreme radiation.
Rather than a Gravity Well instant killing the target, it could be a wormhole attack, removing them from the area, or spitting them out at the other side of the map (in PvP).
But Star Trek was not always about destroying the opponent's ship, much of the time disabling was enough. A healing ship would have much more purpose if a ship could be disabled but not destroyed and you had to come along and restart it.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I will never understand the petty cheers for nerfing someone else's game. Yes, I am thrilled science abilities got a much deserved buff, but being happy another player class got nerfed is sad.
This ability change effects every class. Torpedo builds will feel a big hit as they more than most are high risk high reward with a big investment to spec. Engineers in escorts will fee this as will sci captains using shield stripping abilities combined with Tac boosted weapons.
Stop waging wars on each other and focus on improving the short comings of under performing abilities so every career choice is equal without taking away from someone else.
You are both right and wrong. Right that people should not cheer for someone else's pain, wrong in that I am doing this against those players. Tactical ships and abilities are getting out of control in this game. Why do you think it is referred to escorts or tacscorts online?
I guess I am a sad sad Star Trek fan who had a dream - a bad dream I guess - that this game should be more focased on team and multi abilities rather than how many bullets you can fire and how fast.
Bad bad me for believing that the game would be better if it was not just a space shooter wrapped in a star trek cover.
My sci captain does almost as much DPS as my tac captain using subnuke and sensor scan in place of said alpha.
Alpha +Insert Skill trumps anything you think you can do with your Subnuke. A good example would be Feedback Pulse. The Alpha actually boosts in dmg, making it more deadly in with a Tactical Captain over a Science.
That's just messed up.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Alpha +Insert Skill trumps anything you think you can do with your Subnuke. A good example would be Feedback Pulse. The Alpha actually boosts in dmg, making it more deadly in with a Tactical Captain over a Science.
That's just messed up.
Correct on that. Attack Pattern Alpha is a long, powerful boost in damage, whatever source the player uses. So a TAC Captain will be more effective in making Sci BOFF abilities powerful in damage than SCI Captains ever will hope for.
To top it off, you can stack Attack Pattern Alpha with the other BOFF Attack Patterns. Attack Pattern Alpha + Attack Pattern Omega + High Aux Power + High Particle Gen Skill + Feedback Pulse = Very quickly dead Escort
I've made that work testing a Vo'Quv in PVP for FBP with a TAC Captain, and my SCI Captain cannot come close to that.
Maybe the OP spoke too soon. My GW3 now does about 180 dps less damage, I'd say that means a science ability has been nerfed. Like it wasn't weak enough as it was already.
Where to begin. There's so many things on this post mentioned that's good...
Let's start with the main topic:
First off, I too agree that it's not a major nerf to any profession at any rank. The only thing this changes is the ability to fire 2 Beam Overloads or 2 Torpedo High Yield/Spread in rapid succession. Other than that, there is no noticeable difference to the Tac. Boff Abilities. I am also glad to hear that Science Abilities like GW and TR are getting better scaling.
Mainly from the following comments, I heard of two interesting things regarding DPS. One being that there's been a power creep that's all in favor of high end DPS output wins everything and sadly, that's true. The problem lies in 2 areas of the game: The dichotomy between Damage and Health/Resists.
Let me explain: IF STO decided that all the ships should have LOW health...let's say 5k for escort, 6k for Sci, and maybe 8k for cruisers, we wouldn't be complaining about doing too little damage with cannons, beams, torps, etc. that do 2k DPS or even less damage. There would be much more reason to play strategically with positioning since everyone can die easily (some more than others).
However, because we have ships that are 200k+ in elite missions (and sometimes a lot of them), people have no choice, but to resort to every means of high DPS. Any DPS under 3-4k relative to such high health and damage resistance is simply not viable, especially against mission timers. And so, began the power creep of high DPS builds (Tacscorts).
Which is where we are today: we have the situation now where people are complaining about not being able to tank AND not doing enough damage. And if Cryptic implemented even more tanking options OR more damage abilities, this cycle would have come full circle.
I know what I wrote above may be a bit confusing for some, but let me give you a clear example of what I thought STO should have been: If anyone remembers a time long ago when they first started STO, and having shield facings mattered and damage stuck, that's where I'm starting.
The initial feel of space combat was great. Every torpedo mattered, and you could feel the anticipation behind each beam firing, whether it hit or missed. This was the time when every shot counted, and had lasting effect - because regeneration and resistances weren't sky high. But at the same time, it was balanced because it was actually hard to pull off a one shot kill. There was balance because damage was not simply brushed aside, but also not overwhelming in bursts.
Now for part 2 - the alternative to the damage/healing cycle. It is sadly true that STO is DPS centric, but NOT solely because of the power creep of damage abilities, but because there is no other way to defeat an NPC or player except to destroy them with damage. It is because all three classes vie for the same place to shine - Damage. If this game implemented more ways to render a ship/person defeated, this game would have much less DPS/tanking debates and balance issues.
For example, one of the most overlooked systems in the game is crew count. If ships were "defeated" by a crew count of 0 and/or taken over by a hostile boarding party, I could definitely see a huge player base shift to flying cruisers. If ships could reach a point of no return in a gravity well with an instant death or something close, Sci ships would suddenly seem very viable in ESTFs. What if a drain build could actually kill - all power on a ship like life support dies off. The point is, DPS would no longer be the singular way of destroying something in the game.
Just my 2 cents
P.S. Sorry for ranting, but I'm am sick of hearing complaints about anything DPS and Cross Healing related.
AAAAAND We're done. Bingo.
Pretty much because the only metric that STFs and Fleet Actions care about is DPS, Tactical / Escort builds will always have an unfair edge by default. If we started rewarding more for healing and using exotic powers, it'd be different. But to get first place and the purple shinies, you need high dps, and higher than the next guy.
Additonally, the boff skills ARE what makes them so powerful. CSV3, APB3, APO3, and BFAW3 are the three most powerful skills in this game, and I will stand firmly by that.
Maybe the OP spoke too soon. My GW3 now does about 180 dps less damage, I'd say that means a science ability has been nerfed. Like it wasn't weak enough as it was already.
Science Captain with all 9 points in Particle Generaters and full auxiliary gets gravity well 3 up to 978 DPS on tooltip, but less in actual damage numbers. Even with Attack pattern Beta 1 and sensor scan I have yet to see a damage tick over 1000. This did not boost science at all, as tacs with gravity well 1 and minimal auxiliary are better off.
Flew my science ship into Infected Space Elite. I was useful for the first time in many many months. The JHAS flier even said "wow is that the new gravity well?" as I caused a sphere to go whizzing into the cube explosion at the beginning.
I managed to get the jump on spheres from the gate and drain their engines with tykens 2 enough to more or less stop them and weaken them enough for my other 3 high dps team members to brutally kill them.
I was a valued contributor to the team to help it get done in a prompt time as if I was in an escort and I didn't have to pack a ton of tactical abilities to do this. Only the 2 currently working well science abilities and using them at the right place at the right time.
This is how it should be, on my own I would have performed ok, I would have taken things out in maybe a longer time than an escort but with a team I amplified their damage capability through AoE debuffs.
Where to begin. There's so many things on this post mentioned that's good...
Let's start with the main topic:
First off, I too agree that it's not a major nerf to any profession at any rank. The only thing this changes is the ability to fire 2 Beam Overloads or 2 Torpedo High Yield/Spread in rapid succession. Other than that, there is no noticeable difference to the Tac. Boff Abilities. I am also glad to hear that Science Abilities like GW and TR are getting better scaling.
Mainly from the following comments, I heard of two interesting things regarding DPS. One being that there's been a power creep that's all in favor of high end DPS output wins everything and sadly, that's true. The problem lies in 2 areas of the game: The dichotomy between Damage and Health/Resists.
Let me explain: IF STO decided that all the ships should have LOW health...let's say 5k for escort, 6k for Sci, and maybe 8k for cruisers, we wouldn't be complaining about doing too little damage with cannons, beams, torps, etc. that do 2k DPS or even less damage. There would be much more reason to play strategically with positioning since everyone can die easily (some more than others).
However, because we have ships that are 200k+ in elite missions (and sometimes a lot of them), people have no choice, but to resort to every means of high DPS. Any DPS under 3-4k relative to such high health and damage resistance is simply not viable, especially against mission timers. And so, began the power creep of high DPS builds (Tacscorts).
Which is where we are today: we have the situation now where people are complaining about not being able to tank AND not doing enough damage. And if Cryptic implemented even more tanking options OR more damage abilities, this cycle would have come full circle.
I know what I wrote above may be a bit confusing for some, but let me give you a clear example of what I thought STO should have been: If anyone remembers a time long ago when they first started STO, and having shield facings mattered and damage stuck, that's where I'm starting.
The initial feel of space combat was great. Every torpedo mattered, and you could feel the anticipation behind each beam firing, whether it hit or missed. This was the time when every shot counted, and had lasting effect - because regeneration and resistances weren't sky high. But at the same time, it was balanced because it was actually hard to pull off a one shot kill. There was balance because damage was not simply brushed aside, but also not overwhelming in bursts.
Now for part 2 - the alternative to the damage/healing cycle. It is sadly true that STO is DPS centric, but NOT solely because of the power creep of damage abilities, but because there is no other way to defeat an NPC or player except to destroy them with damage. It is because all three classes vie for the same place to shine - Damage. If this game implemented more ways to render a ship/person defeated, this game would have much less DPS/tanking debates and balance issues.
For example, one of the most overlooked systems in the game is crew count. If ships were "defeated" by a crew count of 0 and/or taken over by a hostile boarding party, I could definitely see a huge player base shift to flying cruisers. If ships could reach a point of no return in a gravity well with an instant death or something close, Sci ships would suddenly seem very viable in ESTFs. What if a drain build could actually kill - all power on a ship like life support dies off. The point is, DPS would no longer be the singular way of destroying something in the game.
Just my 2 cents
P.S. Sorry for ranting, but I'm am sick of hearing complaints about anything DPS and Cross Healing related.
Yes, this is good. all that matters now is dps in stfs because of unshielded targets with large hulls. nerfing hulls on npcs, and rate of fire would bring back the felling that every torp matters. When I play a cruiser with beams it is all dps dps dps as the ROF is so great that it does not matter if individual shots miss. If ROF was nerfed not only would my ship not be an orange disco ball but each shot would count.
Pretty much because the only metric that STFs and Fleet Actions care about is DPS, Tactical / Escort builds will always have an unfair edge by default. If we started rewarding more for healing and using exotic powers, it'd be different. But to get first place and the purple shinies, you need high dps, and higher than the next guy.
When was the last time someone got 1st place in SB24 repairing and helping out other players? :cool:
I am not impressed with the buffed nerf to grav well and tykens, they need to put the boost from aux power back to where it was an i think it will be good for science. I didnt notice any new increase when using tykens, and grav well wasnt any better really. I slotted tykens on my engi aux2bat and it did about the same with 5 aux power as it did on my sci with 100. mobs didnt slow down, or hit any less hard.
No buff for science captains, this was a buff for engi and tacs that use those abilities. Bring the aux bonus back to what it was with the new changes is all I ask for my science capt.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I have always believed that nerfing one class in an MMO to improve or equal out another has always led to mass exit from the game in droves. This has happened before! I am not against science however becoming stronger.
I just don't think changing the way the game plays serves a purpose. Make enemies stronger. Make science stronger. But not at the expense of another class. The flow for me is seriously interrupted now.
And why has there been no explanation as to why these changes benefit the game and its players?
Why am I giving up or having my game play style taken away and what drove the decision to make these changes?
I have always believed that nerfing one class in an MMO to improve or equal out another has always led to mass exit from the game in droves. This has happened before! I am not against science however becoming stronger.
I just don't think changing the way the game plays serves a purpose. Make enemies stronger. Make science stronger. But not at the expense of another class. The flow for me is seriously interrupted now.
And why has there been no explanation as to why these changes benefit the game and its players?
Why am I giving up or having my game play style taken away and what drove the decision to make these changes?
I would like a Dev to weigh in on this!
The main changes to tac were because of the PvP community complaints/feedback. Some things called double -tapping was getting out of hand.
While a borg cube will not complain to cryptic when hit with a 40k beam overload 1-2 seconds after another 40k beam over load - a player does.
But the science issue has been a LONG running complaint both in the PvE community as many of us who love our science toons and ships see it becoming less and less relevant in the DPS content.
The biggest problem now is that the high level sci skills were always ment for command and control and not high DPS - they were ment to bottle up enemies, however, with the rest of the sci ships not able to put out a lot of high DPS it still puts sci at a disadvantage.
The DPS of these high level skills needs to be increased as well to add to the low dps the science ship weapons put out.
Some of this problem was dealt with from the introduction of Aux based weapons for the Vesta class - but they cannot be used on other ships + they are cannons only.
We need dilithium store aux beams and cannons for ALL science ships!!
I have always believed that nerfing one class in an MMO to improve or equal out another has always led to mass exit from the game in droves. This has happened before! I am not against science however becoming stronger.
I just don't think changing the way the game plays serves a purpose. Make enemies stronger. Make science stronger. But not at the expense of another class. The flow for me is seriously interrupted now.
And why has there been no explanation as to why these changes benefit the game and its players?
Why am I giving up or having my game play style taken away and what drove the decision to make these changes?
I would like a Dev to weigh in on this!
Fixing a profoundly broken game mechanic does not count as a nerf.
Competent players were kicking butt as tacscorts before the mechanic got broken in the first place. Why can't you?
Flew my science ship into Infected Space Elite. I was useful for the first time in many many months. The JHAS flier even said "wow is that the new gravity well?" as I caused a sphere to go whizzing into the cube explosion at the beginning.
I managed to get the jump on spheres from the gate and drain their engines with tykens 2 enough to more or less stop them and weaken them enough for my other 3 high dps team members to brutally kill them.
I was a valued contributor to the team to help it get done in a prompt time as if I was in an escort and I didn't have to pack a ton of tactical abilities to do this. Only the 2 currently working well science abilities and using them at the right place at the right time.
This is how it should be, on my own I would have performed ok, I would have taken things out in maybe a longer time than an escort but with a team I amplified their damage capability through AoE debuffs.
Useful? lol. The changes to epte on npc mobs have made the stfs even more easy - not the buff/nerf to gw and tr. I sat and watched the spheres meander out of the gate in ISE before using a gw3 on them. Whether you bunch them up with a gw or not doesn't make alot of difference because their movement is so slow and they pretty much stay clustered. Had I been on my tact I just would have cut them down with superior aoe without using a gw or tr - they would have died quicker. /yawn
On my science toon without changing anything since the patch, my gw3 is doing several hundred points less in damage. This buff/nerf patch is a joke.
Fixing a profoundly broken game mechanic does not count as a nerf.
Competent players were kicking butt as tacscorts before the mechanic got broken in the first place. Why can't you?
I did know it was changed. And after reading the patch notes. Its not really a nerf. The DPS is the same. So what if I cannot let off three of four super powers at once. The way I fly tac I am not doing the most DPS anyway. I accept the explanations given. They did not nerf the DPS part. And besides I never understood how one could pop off canon rapid fire three and BAOL 3 at the same time without a serious power drain. Nerfing the dps in the process.
Considering that I don't even know what this ''doubletap'' of yours is, how exactly did my tac captains get nerfed?
"Doubletapping" is a technique where you load up 2 Beam Overload skills while cloaked, charge up your weapons power and buffs, close to within favorable distance of the target, charge up Directed Energy Modulation (with Marion Frances Dulmur DOFF), decloak, then unload both Beam Overloads in very short order. Very devastating. You need to fork out alot of money to do this, as well as time and position it right. But if it works out, it's insane damage. Either way, whether the target gets taken down, it's a safe idea to egress out of the fight after "unloading" to recloak and prepare yourself again.
The supposed "nerf" to TAC is that Cryptic implemented a 5 second cooldown timer of similar TAC abilities once they are used. So if you did Beam Overload, Cannon Rapid Fire, or whatever (from the list that the devs made), then that 5 second delay will be used on the similar TAC ability. So, if you use Beam Overload, then there's a 5 second delay on your other Beam abilities.
If you are one that relies on using a variety of TAC attack abilities simultaneously, this "nerf" isn't noticeable whatsoever. This "nerf" does not affect hitting power of the TAC abilities, weapons, whatsoever. An Escort attacking you with CRF, BO, etc. will still hit with the same power as before. A good player in an Escort / Warbird will still vape you in his decloaking Alpha Strike if you are not careful, and they will not even need a second cycle of TAC abilities to finish you off. A good Alpha Strike does not require that second cycle of CRF, BO, or whatever.
Even with this "nerf" squared on Beam Overloads, it doesn't mean anything. It does not stop TAC from hitting you at close range with CRF or CSV, shooting HYT or TS on you, all before the 5 second timer for Beam Overload is done... then he can slam you again with Beam Overload after all that. The delay just ensures that Weapons Power is up and that there's less of a need of the Marion DOFF.
Hence, why this "nerf" doesn't mean much, esp. if you relied on varied TAC attacks.
"Doubletapping" is a technique where you load up 2 Beam Overload skills while cloaked, charge up your weapons power and buffs, close to within favorable distance of the target, charge up Directed Energy Modulation (with Marion Frances Dulmur DOFF), decloak, then unload both Beam Overloads in very short order. Very devastating. You need to fork out alot of money to do this, as well as time and position it right. But if it works out, it's insane damage. Either way, whether the target gets taken down, it's a safe idea to egress out of the fight after "unloading" to recloak and prepare yourself again.
The supposed "nerf" to TAC is that Cryptic implemented a 5 second cooldown timer of similar TAC abilities once they are used. So if you did Beam Overload, Cannon Rapid Fire, or whatever (from the list that the devs made), then that 5 second delay will be used on the similar TAC ability. So, if you use Beam Overload, then there's a 5 second delay on your other Beam abilities.
If you are one that relies on using a variety of TAC attack abilities simultaneously, this "nerf" isn't noticeable whatsoever. This "nerf" does not affect hitting power of the TAC abilities, weapons, whatsoever. An Escort attacking you with CRF, BO, etc. will still hit with the same power as before. A good player in an Escort / Warbird will still vape you in his decloaking Alpha Strike if you are not careful, and they will not even need a second cycle of TAC abilities to finish you off. A good Alpha Strike does not require that second cycle of CRF, BO, or whatever.
Even with this "nerf" squared on Beam Overloads, it doesn't mean anything. It does not stop TAC from hitting you at close range with CRF or CSV, shooting HYT or TS on you, all before the 5 second timer for Beam Overload is done... then he can slam you again with Beam Overload after all that. The delay just ensures that Weapons Power is up and that there's less of a need of the Marion DOFF.
Hence, why this "nerf" doesn't mean much, esp. if you relied on varied TAC attacks.
Ahh, so it's basically those fancy PvP things, tactics and gear/doff/boff setups I never even bother with.
No buff for science captains, this was a buff for engi and tacs that use those abilities. Bring the aux bonus back to what it was with the new changes is all I ask for my science capt.
A buff for engies? I admit, that made me laugh. It didn't really help engineers in the slightest.
Tacs will still have overall the best damage with it if they so chose.
Scis will still come in 2nd place due to the Conservation of Energy trait.
Engys are the bronze medal because they have nothing outside of normal stuff (consoles, BOFF abilities, etc) that anyone can use anyways.
All three classes are equal in regards to the drain or pull of TR/GW depending on their build.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
It was almost completely a pvp tactic. The entire point of 'Doubletapping' was pouring more damage in a burst then a player can heal through. Short of an Odyssey with tac team running with very high shields and hull, it was pretty much an instant kill. What the people who hate it will neglect to tell you is gearing a ship to use a doubletap was extremely expensive and took a great deal of skill. The most efficient use started with the Marion doff - who negates energy drain when DEM is active. This doff runs 18-35 million. A high end dual beam bank in the ACC3 or Crit Severity3 mk xii purple in the range of 3-15 million depending on energy type of preference. Four or Five mk xii purple energy consoles of your flavor of choice - running 18-45 million a piece. The Beam Overload penetration doffs running 3-5 million a piece.
After spending your booty on your loadout - something that could cost the average player as much as a Jem'Hadar attack ship - you had to learn to Doubletap. It isn't something that can be done on a whim, and is most easily done in a cloaked vessel. You find your prey and stalk it - activating one copy of your beam overload. You didn't fire your overload until there was one/two seconds left on the recharge of your second beam overload. Hitting DEM, decloak, alpha strike, fire on my mark, beam overload 2 then 3 within a second or so of each other - 98 percent of the time your target of choice didn't survive. Especially if you could catch them fighting another player.
So while pvpers will complain it was an abuse of game mechanics, it wasn't. It was a great deal of expense and skill, and it's too bad they couldn't find a different way to fix it then by devaluing a lot of players who spent a lot of money and time gearing and learning this tactic. And no - I'm not a doubletapper. I fly an Odyssey in PVE and stay as far away from pvp as I can. I don't have the patience to learn to counter these tactics, and know to stay to content I enjoyed.
The entire mess isn't a 'tactical nerf', though. With the exception of Torp High Yield/Spread and Beam Overload having a new cooldown - the average player will lose no dps or have to relearn any of their favorite attack patterns/rotations. The entire thing is a pvp nerf, and at that only a burst damage nerf that only worked in certain situations after beating your poor wallet to death. The average Tacscort will still pound you to dust with their alpha strike, high end powers, and the other tricks good pvpers use.
It was almost completely a pvp tactic. The entire point of 'Doubletapping' was pouring more damage in a burst then a player can heal through. Short of an Odyssey with tac team running with very high shields and hull, it was pretty much an instant kill. What the people who hate it will neglect to tell you is gearing a ship to use a doubletap was extremely expensive and took a great deal of skill. The most efficient use started with the Marion doff - who negates energy drain when DEM is active. This doff runs 18-35 million. A high end dual beam bank in the ACC3 or Crit Severity3 mk xii purple in the range of 3-15 million depending on energy type of preference. Four or Five mk xii purple energy consoles of your flavor of choice - running 18-45 million a piece. The Beam Overload penetration doffs running 3-5 million a piece.
After spending your booty on your loadout - something that could cost the average player as much as a Jem'Hadar attack ship - you had to learn to Doubletap. It isn't something that can be done on a whim, and is most easily done in a cloaked vessel. You find your prey and stalk it - activating one copy of your beam overload. You didn't fire your overload until there was one/two seconds left on the recharge of your second beam overload. Hitting DEM, decloak, alpha strike, fire on my mark, beam overload 2 then 3 within a second or so of each other - 98 percent of the time your target of choice didn't survive. Especially if you could catch them fighting another player.
So while pvpers will complain it was an abuse of game mechanics, it wasn't. It was a great deal of expense and skill, and it's too bad they couldn't find a different way to fix it then by devaluing a lot of players who spent a lot of money and time gearing and learning this tactic. And no - I'm not a doubletapper. I fly an Odyssey in PVE and stay as far away from pvp as I can. I don't have the patience to learn to counter these tactics, and know to stay to content I enjoyed.
The entire mess isn't a 'tactical nerf', though. With the exception of Torp High Yield/Spread and Beam Overload having a new cooldown - the average player will lose no dps or have to relearn any of their favorite attack patterns/rotations. The entire thing is a pvp nerf, and at that only a burst damage nerf that only worked in certain situations after beating your poor wallet to death. The average Tacscort will still pound you to dust with their alpha strike, high end powers, and the other tricks good pvpers use.
Quite possibly the best post I have ever read on the entire doubletap subject.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Comments
To heck with that. I love the nerf on NPC EptE. There is NOTHING that I've found more worrisome lately than ships in fleet alerts and borg spheres hitting EPtE and flying off to, the other side of the starbase, all the way off to the Quadra Sigma planet, the next sector block, especially when you're on a timer. And they make something like gravity well completely irrelevant. They've been almost impossible to intercept. If it cranks their engine to 125 then that is effectively full impulse. There's no way to tone that down as a speed or movement buff. The duration has to be cut just to keep them in combat.
This is brilliant. Aside from the subsystem targeting there needs to be more precision firing. Something that really could only work with the game going slower.
Ship injuries before you blow up instead of after. A true disabled status could really be meaningful. For instance perhaps repeated targeting of shields would permanently disable or weaken shields. Knocking someone's shields or weapons offline is not something that should be easily fixable in combat.
But implementing any of these things would require a full revamp and reworking of endgame content which is designed to function under the current systems.
To add to the above different faction ships would have different disable options, for instance the Borg would have the most powerful, boarding team -> Assimilate Ship, then the ship becomes an actual borg ship and you lose control just like with when a character is assimilated. To stop boarding parties I can see a transport inhibitor console coming.
Also, Aceton Assimilators are something that's not supposed to damage a ship at all, they're supposed to kill crew with extreme radiation.
Rather than a Gravity Well instant killing the target, it could be a wormhole attack, removing them from the area, or spitting them out at the other side of the map (in PvP).
But Star Trek was not always about destroying the opponent's ship, much of the time disabling was enough. A healing ship would have much more purpose if a ship could be disabled but not destroyed and you had to come along and restart it.
You are both right and wrong. Right that people should not cheer for someone else's pain, wrong in that I am doing this against those players. Tactical ships and abilities are getting out of control in this game. Why do you think it is referred to escorts or tacscorts online?
I guess I am a sad sad Star Trek fan who had a dream - a bad dream I guess - that this game should be more focased on team and multi abilities rather than how many bullets you can fire and how fast.
Bad bad me for believing that the game would be better if it was not just a space shooter wrapped in a star trek cover.
Alpha +Insert Skill trumps anything you think you can do with your Subnuke. A good example would be Feedback Pulse. The Alpha actually boosts in dmg, making it more deadly in with a Tactical Captain over a Science.
That's just messed up.
You're a funny guy Sully*, that's why I'm going to kill you last. :P
*Yreodred.
LIAR! You're most likely to dang him by the ankle over a cliff before dropping him.
(Commando FT-80'sCHEESY-W)
R.I.P
And if you are not part of that, you are nerfing yourself :cool:
Correct on that. Attack Pattern Alpha is a long, powerful boost in damage, whatever source the player uses. So a TAC Captain will be more effective in making Sci BOFF abilities powerful in damage than SCI Captains ever will hope for.
To top it off, you can stack Attack Pattern Alpha with the other BOFF Attack Patterns. Attack Pattern Alpha + Attack Pattern Omega + High Aux Power + High Particle Gen Skill + Feedback Pulse = Very quickly dead Escort
I've made that work testing a Vo'Quv in PVP for FBP with a TAC Captain, and my SCI Captain cannot come close to that.
That said, I am not sure I like the changes to the mechanics of Grav Well - I feel like these changes aren't fair.
AAAAAND We're done. Bingo.
Pretty much because the only metric that STFs and Fleet Actions care about is DPS, Tactical / Escort builds will always have an unfair edge by default. If we started rewarding more for healing and using exotic powers, it'd be different. But to get first place and the purple shinies, you need high dps, and higher than the next guy.
anyone noticed that the gates in Khitomer elite now do fire at will 1 with plasma beams if you shot them with the rom plasma... neat
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Um... four skills?
But I respawn
I am duranium!
Science Captain with all 9 points in Particle Generaters and full auxiliary gets gravity well 3 up to 978 DPS on tooltip, but less in actual damage numbers. Even with Attack pattern Beta 1 and sensor scan I have yet to see a damage tick over 1000. This did not boost science at all, as tacs with gravity well 1 and minimal auxiliary are better off.
I managed to get the jump on spheres from the gate and drain their engines with tykens 2 enough to more or less stop them and weaken them enough for my other 3 high dps team members to brutally kill them.
I was a valued contributor to the team to help it get done in a prompt time as if I was in an escort and I didn't have to pack a ton of tactical abilities to do this. Only the 2 currently working well science abilities and using them at the right place at the right time.
This is how it should be, on my own I would have performed ok, I would have taken things out in maybe a longer time than an escort but with a team I amplified their damage capability through AoE debuffs.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Yes, this is good. all that matters now is dps in stfs because of unshielded targets with large hulls. nerfing hulls on npcs, and rate of fire would bring back the felling that every torp matters. When I play a cruiser with beams it is all dps dps dps as the ROF is so great that it does not matter if individual shots miss. If ROF was nerfed not only would my ship not be an orange disco ball but each shot would count.
Just opinion.
When was the last time someone got 1st place in SB24 repairing and helping out other players? :cool:
No buff for science captains, this was a buff for engi and tacs that use those abilities. Bring the aux bonus back to what it was with the new changes is all I ask for my science capt.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I just don't think changing the way the game plays serves a purpose. Make enemies stronger. Make science stronger. But not at the expense of another class. The flow for me is seriously interrupted now.
And why has there been no explanation as to why these changes benefit the game and its players?
Why am I giving up or having my game play style taken away and what drove the decision to make these changes?
I would like a Dev to weigh in on this!
The main changes to tac were because of the PvP community complaints/feedback. Some things called double -tapping was getting out of hand.
While a borg cube will not complain to cryptic when hit with a 40k beam overload 1-2 seconds after another 40k beam over load - a player does.
But the science issue has been a LONG running complaint both in the PvE community as many of us who love our science toons and ships see it becoming less and less relevant in the DPS content.
The biggest problem now is that the high level sci skills were always ment for command and control and not high DPS - they were ment to bottle up enemies, however, with the rest of the sci ships not able to put out a lot of high DPS it still puts sci at a disadvantage.
The DPS of these high level skills needs to be increased as well to add to the low dps the science ship weapons put out.
Some of this problem was dealt with from the introduction of Aux based weapons for the Vesta class - but they cannot be used on other ships + they are cannons only.
We need dilithium store aux beams and cannons for ALL science ships!!
Competent players were kicking butt as tacscorts before the mechanic got broken in the first place. Why can't you?
Useful? lol. The changes to epte on npc mobs have made the stfs even more easy - not the buff/nerf to gw and tr. I sat and watched the spheres meander out of the gate in ISE before using a gw3 on them. Whether you bunch them up with a gw or not doesn't make alot of difference because their movement is so slow and they pretty much stay clustered. Had I been on my tact I just would have cut them down with superior aoe without using a gw or tr - they would have died quicker. /yawn
On my science toon without changing anything since the patch, my gw3 is doing several hundred points less in damage. This buff/nerf patch is a joke.
I did know it was changed. And after reading the patch notes. Its not really a nerf. The DPS is the same. So what if I cannot let off three of four super powers at once. The way I fly tac I am not doing the most DPS anyway. I accept the explanations given. They did not nerf the DPS part. And besides I never understood how one could pop off canon rapid fire three and BAOL 3 at the same time without a serious power drain. Nerfing the dps in the process.
"Doubletapping" is a technique where you load up 2 Beam Overload skills while cloaked, charge up your weapons power and buffs, close to within favorable distance of the target, charge up Directed Energy Modulation (with Marion Frances Dulmur DOFF), decloak, then unload both Beam Overloads in very short order. Very devastating. You need to fork out alot of money to do this, as well as time and position it right. But if it works out, it's insane damage. Either way, whether the target gets taken down, it's a safe idea to egress out of the fight after "unloading" to recloak and prepare yourself again.
The supposed "nerf" to TAC is that Cryptic implemented a 5 second cooldown timer of similar TAC abilities once they are used. So if you did Beam Overload, Cannon Rapid Fire, or whatever (from the list that the devs made), then that 5 second delay will be used on the similar TAC ability. So, if you use Beam Overload, then there's a 5 second delay on your other Beam abilities.
If you are one that relies on using a variety of TAC attack abilities simultaneously, this "nerf" isn't noticeable whatsoever. This "nerf" does not affect hitting power of the TAC abilities, weapons, whatsoever. An Escort attacking you with CRF, BO, etc. will still hit with the same power as before. A good player in an Escort / Warbird will still vape you in his decloaking Alpha Strike if you are not careful, and they will not even need a second cycle of TAC abilities to finish you off. A good Alpha Strike does not require that second cycle of CRF, BO, or whatever.
Even with this "nerf" squared on Beam Overloads, it doesn't mean anything. It does not stop TAC from hitting you at close range with CRF or CSV, shooting HYT or TS on you, all before the 5 second timer for Beam Overload is done... then he can slam you again with Beam Overload after all that. The delay just ensures that Weapons Power is up and that there's less of a need of the Marion DOFF.
Hence, why this "nerf" doesn't mean much, esp. if you relied on varied TAC attacks.
Ahh, so it's basically those fancy PvP things, tactics and gear/doff/boff setups I never even bother with.
Nothing of value has been lost then.
A buff for engies? I admit, that made me laugh. It didn't really help engineers in the slightest.
Tacs will still have overall the best damage with it if they so chose.
Scis will still come in 2nd place due to the Conservation of Energy trait.
Engys are the bronze medal because they have nothing outside of normal stuff (consoles, BOFF abilities, etc) that anyone can use anyways.
All three classes are equal in regards to the drain or pull of TR/GW depending on their build.
After spending your booty on your loadout - something that could cost the average player as much as a Jem'Hadar attack ship - you had to learn to Doubletap. It isn't something that can be done on a whim, and is most easily done in a cloaked vessel. You find your prey and stalk it - activating one copy of your beam overload. You didn't fire your overload until there was one/two seconds left on the recharge of your second beam overload. Hitting DEM, decloak, alpha strike, fire on my mark, beam overload 2 then 3 within a second or so of each other - 98 percent of the time your target of choice didn't survive. Especially if you could catch them fighting another player.
So while pvpers will complain it was an abuse of game mechanics, it wasn't. It was a great deal of expense and skill, and it's too bad they couldn't find a different way to fix it then by devaluing a lot of players who spent a lot of money and time gearing and learning this tactic. And no - I'm not a doubletapper. I fly an Odyssey in PVE and stay as far away from pvp as I can. I don't have the patience to learn to counter these tactics, and know to stay to content I enjoyed.
The entire mess isn't a 'tactical nerf', though. With the exception of Torp High Yield/Spread and Beam Overload having a new cooldown - the average player will lose no dps or have to relearn any of their favorite attack patterns/rotations. The entire thing is a pvp nerf, and at that only a burst damage nerf that only worked in certain situations after beating your poor wallet to death. The average Tacscort will still pound you to dust with their alpha strike, high end powers, and the other tricks good pvpers use.
Quite possibly the best post I have ever read on the entire doubletap subject.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus