eh.... no biggie, never used double tap even though I have two tac BOFFs in stations..... they each have different ablities.
Looking forward to the improvements to carrier pet intercept mode..... I like running my carrier pets in intercept mode and keep a doff stationed to increase accuracy in that mode.
I agree - tactical ships do seem to have an advantage. The problem with games and gamers in general, though, is most players want combat. As much as I would enjoy a Star Trek game that was closer to what Trek is supposed to be - it would be very hard to not make it boring. A four hour survey of a nebula? Guarding an away team on a planet while your botanist gathers plants - the only dangerous thing you chase off being a purple monkey?
With current technology and player wants there are four options,
1: A combat based MMO. Which is the easiest to provide and the most exciting.
2: A turn based/RTS strategy platform where players control task forces/fleets and issue orders.
3: A rank/ship based MMO. One player is the Captain, another is the first officer, etc. Players skills and training are required and needed for all duties. Combat, repair, exploration. The problem with this is - Everyone wants to be the Captain, Chief Engineer, or CMO. No one wants to be Fred the Redshirt.
Or 4: A complete Single player Sim. Bridge Commander enhanced, would be the best mix of combat and pure 'Trek' - but going from Single player sim to MMO would slap you right into option 3.
Star Trek Online is the average model for an MMO atm. Log in, blow something up, get a token, make new friends. You log on, complete your daily, you get 'paid'. It's a basic play/reward mentality and unfortunately it works. Also unfortunately - most players have realized in this game like most others - the DPS completes their daily grind the fastest. Unlike other games, STO really doesn't need tanks or healers - the Content just doesn't need them - so you wind up pushing your dps no matter what role/ship you play. Even the Grav Well/Tychen's Rift upgrades aren't about their utility so much as 'Now they do more damage!'.
I'm glad Science is getting a boost, I honestly am. However, no matter your ship or profession - you are 'all about the dps' right now.
I agree - tactical ships do seem to have an advantage. The problem with games and gamers in general, though, is most players want combat. As much as I would enjoy a Star Trek game that was closer to what Trek is supposed to be - it would be very hard to not make it boring. A four hour survey of a nebula? Guarding an away team on a planet while your botanist gathers plants - the only dangerous thing you chase off being a purple monkey?
With current technology and player wants there are four options,
1: A combat based MMO. Which is the easiest to provide and the most exciting.
2: A turn based/RTS strategy platform where players control task forces/fleets and issue orders.
3: A rank/ship based MMO. One player is the Captain, another is the first officer, etc. Players skills and training are required and needed for all duties. Combat, repair, exploration. The problem with this is - Everyone wants to be the Captain, Chief Engineer, or CMO. No one wants to be Fred the Redshirt.
Or 4: A complete Single player Sim. Bridge Commander enhanced, would be the best mix of combat and pure 'Trek' - but going from Single player sim to MMO would slap you right into option 3.
Star Trek Online is the average model for an MMO atm. Log in, blow something up, get a token, make new friends. You log on, complete your daily, you get 'paid'. It's a basic play/reward mentality and unfortunately it works. Also unfortunately - most players have realized in this game like most others - the DPS completes their daily grind the fastest. Unlike other games, STO really doesn't need tanks or healers - the Content just doesn't need them - so you wind up pushing your dps no matter what role/ship you play. Even the Grav Well/Tychen's Rift upgrades aren't about their utility so much as 'Now they do more damage!'.
I'm glad Science is getting a boost, I honestly am. However, no matter your ship or profession - you are 'all about the dps' right now.
Don't I know it - pugging a ISE the other day - warp in - 5 sci captains in 5 sci ships - I'm saying to myself right off the bat "getting the optional is going to be close to impossible" The timer just does not allow for it. Of course today warped in with 5 tacs in tac heavy ships and we had like 8 min left on optional.
So 5 tacs = easy time + Guaranteed bonus rewards
5 sci = much tougher/longer time + bonus hard to get.
Of course selling aux powered weapons through the fleet system or dilithium store to all Science ships may help in this matter.
The Entire point of the nerf is people crying about getting ganked by cruisers running aux2bat/Escorts with competent Captains who could keep power levels high - and with the right doffs, weapons, and consolse could slam you with two Beam Overload hits from 50-150k damage each depend on crits within a second of each other. Unless you were a very tanky Cruiser/Carrier - it was nearly impossible to survive it. Add in the fact that most people used BoP's, Warbirds, or Defiants to do it for the decloak bonus, it was even meaner.
The Doubletap was very powerful, but it was also difficult to time and expensive to gear properly. So it had it's own drawbacks, though those on the receiving end only cared that they couldn't survive it.
The only thing this nerf does is puts a five second 'lockout' on a tac power when you fire it. So Fire at Will, Scatter Volley, and Rapid Fire will use up their five second lockout during their firing time. Torp Spread and High Yield will use up their five second lockout while you're waiting for your torpedo launcher to recharge - unless you're in a torpedo boat, then it'll hurt you a bit.
For the most part, all this nerf means is a couple pvp crybabies won't be popped so often, and the rest of us have to wait a few seconds to hit the borg cube with another beam overload.
I would also like to add that this whole double tap thing was started thanks to a certain DOff with the name 'Marion Francis Dulmur' who made it possible that people could fire BO's without any loss of power. Since I own this very expensive DOff I'm glad Cryptic did not nerf him but instead everything else
I am skeptical about the buff to TR and GW, they "do more damage" but aux power boosts it by less than half which sounds more like they do about the same amount as they did before and will be worse if you do not have aux maxed out to begin with.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Where to begin. There's so many things on this post mentioned that's good...
Let's start with the main topic:
First off, I too agree that it's not a major nerf to any profession at any rank. The only thing this changes is the ability to fire 2 Beam Overloads or 2 Torpedo High Yield/Spread in rapid succession. Other than that, there is no noticeable difference to the Tac. Boff Abilities. I am also glad to hear that Science Abilities like GW and TR are getting better scaling.
Mainly from the following comments, I heard of two interesting things regarding DPS. One being that there's been a power creep that's all in favor of high end DPS output wins everything and sadly, that's true. The problem lies in 2 areas of the game: The dichotomy between Damage and Health/Resists.
Let me explain: IF STO decided that all the ships should have LOW health...let's say 5k for escort, 6k for Sci, and maybe 8k for cruisers, we wouldn't be complaining about doing too little damage with cannons, beams, torps, etc. that do 2k DPS or even less damage. There would be much more reason to play strategically with positioning since everyone can die easily (some more than others).
However, because we have ships that are 200k+ in elite missions (and sometimes a lot of them), people have no choice, but to resort to every means of high DPS. Any DPS under 3-4k relative to such high health and damage resistance is simply not viable, especially against mission timers. And so, began the power creep of high DPS builds (Tacscorts).
Which is where we are today: we have the situation now where people are complaining about not being able to tank AND not doing enough damage. And if Cryptic implemented even more tanking options OR more damage abilities, this cycle would have come full circle.
I know what I wrote above may be a bit confusing for some, but let me give you a clear example of what I thought STO should have been: If anyone remembers a time long ago when they first started STO, and having shield facings mattered and damage stuck, that's where I'm starting.
The initial feel of space combat was great. Every torpedo mattered, and you could feel the anticipation behind each beam firing, whether it hit or missed. This was the time when every shot counted, and had lasting effect - because regeneration and resistances weren't sky high. But at the same time, it was balanced because it was actually hard to pull off a one shot kill. There was balance because damage was not simply brushed aside, but also not overwhelming in bursts.
Now for part 2 - the alternative to the damage/healing cycle. It is sadly true that STO is DPS centric, but NOT solely because of the power creep of damage abilities, but because there is no other way to defeat an NPC or player except to destroy them with damage. It is because all three classes vie for the same place to shine - Damage. If this game implemented more ways to render a ship/person defeated, this game would have much less DPS/tanking debates and balance issues.
For example, one of the most overlooked systems in the game is crew count. If ships were "defeated" by a crew count of 0 and/or taken over by a hostile boarding party, I could definitely see a huge player base shift to flying cruisers. If ships could reach a point of no return in a gravity well with an instant death or something close, Sci ships would suddenly seem very viable in ESTFs. What if a drain build could actually kill - all power on a ship like life support dies off. The point is, DPS would no longer be the singular way of destroying something in the game.
Just my 2 cents
P.S. Sorry for ranting, but I'm am sick of hearing complaints about anything DPS and Cross Healing related.
__________________________________________________
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
I am skeptical about the buff to TR and GW, they "do more damage" but aux power boosts it by less than half which sounds more like they do about the same amount as they did before and will be worse if you do not have aux maxed out to begin with.
It was a simple move to generate excitement among players that, "Cryptic cares about Science now!" but in reality, keeping Science in its place... in the basement.
Actually this fix won't modify cannon rapid/scatter fire or Beam Fire at Will at all. /shrug. Those are time based powers - and the five second 'nerf' before activating a second power will be up by the time/before the power is ready to cycle again. The same with Mine Dispersal/Torp High/Spread. You almost always had to wait for a torp to cycle it's firing anyway, so you couldn't double tap it.
The only thing these changes honestly matter to is Beam Overload. Everything else is pretty much 'working as intended/before'.
What worries me is that they felt the need to include cannon and mine abilities. Everyone that plays and has a clue as to how these interact with multiple copies of each would know they already can't be stacked. So why mention them at all? Makes me think they shoved the fix off to some newby or an intern who has NO IDEA of what's what. That's just begging for sloppy work.
As far as a buff to sci. Its a HUGE buff to sci. They can spam photonic fleet even more now. So PvP will become even more annoying, yay. Its all roms and scis now. As the last pitifully small bastion of non fail gameplay falls, let us all observe a moment of silence for PvP.
I really hate that almost all of the games PvE content has become DPS online.
High level sci skills and sci ships still need more buffing in my opinion - in fact if you were to go by real life standards the move is away from conventional weapons to high tech sci powers.
Problem with video games is to many have this point and shoot the most bullets mentality because it is the easiest.
Stop and think about what you're writing, even for just a moment. How are tac ships becoming more powerful exactly? By getting hybridized with cruisers and sci vessels? I think what you're actually thinking of is that gear creep has not been accompanied by tougher opponents or better AI, as well as poor goals being set for team content.
I would also like to add that this whole double tap thing was started thanks to a certain DOff with the name 'Marion Francis Dulmur' who made it possible that people could fire BO's without any loss of power. Since I own this very expensive DOff I'm glad Cryptic did not nerf him but instead everything else
the grav well buff is only for the radius and force of the pull, in fact they decreased the bonus from aux power level.
and the dmg of tykons rift is increased, flat by 35%...isn't it now actually close to the dmg of grav well?
i'm gonna change my grav wells to tykons rift, that is how the grav well and tykons rift change seem to affect me.
sure all in all it is a long overdue buff for science captains and a nerf to a mechanic that was rather questionable, but imho this is far from an attempt at balancing. Feels more like a hotfix.
would have liked to see the operative trait and basically all other boff traits beeing "non-stackable" for instance. some are, some aren't that is just not a way to go.
Maybe they will nerf the high healing in game next.
You are right though, KDF BoPs need a balance pass as they are quickly becoming pointless in PvP, unlike the Rom BoPs.
Still we KDF players used to kill without double tapping before, so new means will have to be discovered now.
Put those Uslots to use. Science works on a BoP as well as any science vessel.
Was honestly hoping to avoid having to shell out 500 friggin Zen for a respec, because my current spec is really focused towards boosting energy/projectile damage, stealth, and innate healing/resist/hullstrength/shieldstrength. Fairly limited speccing into sci skills.
Now that Cryptic seems to think making it harder to kill quickly is a good idea (while doing nothing about the absurd amount of tanking and defense levels, of course), I may have little choice but to allocate gameplay time towards getting that zen to pay the exorbitant respec prices.
I really hate that almost all of the games PvE content has become DPS online.
High level sci skills and sci ships still need more buffing in my opinion - in fact if you were to go by real life standards the move is away from conventional weapons to high tech sci powers.
Problem with video games is to many have this point and shoot the most bullets mentality because it is the easiest.
so you want science which is for debuff to do dps.If you want high level sci skills to do damage then tactical high level powers should do debuff .
everything sciency that does damage has to be nerfed.Science is not for dps....you want a science something in PvE ask the developers to create content for science .
It was a simple move to generate excitement among players that, "Cryptic cares about Science now!" but in reality, keeping Science in its place... in the basement.
I to am scared a little about this, that is why in one of my posts I said to Cryptic that this is just a "START" of the buffing they need to do to science abilities.
However, there is a problem - and that is damage.
Damage - or the most damage you can do the fastest is all that matters in this game.
Most High end science abilities were designed not as super duper damage dealing abilities, but as Command and Control abilities - which I would be totally fine with if there was not this mass need to deal high damage to be effective.
Science was never a class that was designed to stand on it's own really in a fight. it was designed to work in the trinity - it brought the heal and the command and control - so the tactical could come by and do the damage. But the game has totally moved away from that to a tactical captain and ship can do everything- especially with the rep passives and new gear.
let me say that I am not "running around laughing at tac captains or tac ships - I have 8 tacticals and most of my ships are tactical(Defiant retrofit, MVAM retrofit, Chet Ghet, B'rel retrofit, Most KDF Battle Crusiers, Mogai, T'Varo retrofit, Dhelan retrofit - just to name a few of my tac ships) I am just bored with the constant power creep in the game geared toward tactical - it's friggin getting OLD!!
So damage seems to be the way of the game and the trinity is long gone. So now Cryptic needs to give Science the power to be more than Command and control, it needs to give them the damage dealing to.
Some of that was Aux based weapons - they should sell them for science ships in the fleet stores or the dilithium stores - and not for just the Vesta - all science ships. They also need to make Beam aux weapons.
This is where Cryptic needs to go with science - fixing some basic issues with how the skills work is just the beginning!!
I'm sorry, but the correct approach would be to fix the double stacking of ALL skills that share a global cool down, not just the tactical.. A2B builds can have two Emergency Power to X Rank 3 skills active at the same time, which is just as exploitive as those double tap BO guys.
Also the rank of the buff should be the factor in overriding an already active buff.
Adding an addition 5sec on tacital skills is the same as adding an additional 5sec to it's glodal cooldown. That hurts everyone across the board.
Tyken's Rift will remain junky until you've added the chance to randomly spawn mirror vessels out of player created rifts.
Tachyon Beam needs loving...
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Tyken's Rift will remain junky until you've added the chance to randomly spawn mirror vessels out of player created rifts.
Tachyon Beam needs loving...
That is an AWESOME idea!! A cmdr level 3 Tyken's rift spawns a mass amount of mirror ships that attack for you. And they stay around until destroyed, unlike photonic.
If you really think these changes made science boffs any more effective in PvE than they currently are your deluding yourself just as much as the devs.
Attack Pattern Beta 3 VS Any Sci Boff ability still leaves APB3 on top, by far.
Gravity Well 1 will deal a bit more damage on my toons that use it, that is about all the changes will amount to in the end.
Nice to see Science buffed.Althrough i don't like things being nerfedi think Tactial was too powerful for years. I hope this patch will even that out a bit.
But where is the Engineering buff?
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
If you really think these changes made science boffs any more effective in PvE than they currently are your deluding yourself just as much as the devs.
Attack Pattern Beta 3 VS Any Sci Boff ability still leaves APB3 on top, by far.
Gravity Well 1 will deal a bit more damage on my toons that use it, that is about all the changes will amount to in the end.
I stated that it is a start - only a start - cryptic needs to keep going if it is going to make science more viable. Since Tacs don't "need" science around to assist them any more, then science needs to be changed to be the same jack of all abilities.
2 things they should do right away:
1.) Cmdr lvl 3 science abilities need a MAJOR damage boost
2.) they should sell in fleet stores or the dilithium stores aux based canons and beams to ALL science ships.
I think technically what we're treating as a buff to Tyken's Rift is actually a bugfix to make it do the thing it said on the box it did. (Or did they fix that already?)
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I stated that it is a start - only a start - cryptic needs to keep going if it is going to make science more viable. Since Tacs don't "need" science around to assist them any more, then science needs to be changed to be the same jack of all abilities.
2 things they should do right away:
1.) Cmdr lvl 3 science abilities need a MAJOR damage boost
2.) they should sell in fleet stores or the dilithium stores aux based canons and beams to ALL science ships.
Um, they already stated that sci abilities being able to destroy enemy frigates is too powerful so not gonna happen.
Tactical Boff skills were never what makes the Tactical Captains so powerful. It's the Alpha..
While I do agree that double stacking buffs that share a global cool down is an exploit, it is not just the Tactical Boff skills that can be double stacked.
Example: Having two Emergency Powers active at the same time...
Nothing that shares a global cool down should be able to be double stacked, however a higher ranked version of a currently active buff should be allowed to remove and replace the lower ranked version of said buff.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Tactical Boff skills were never what makes the Tactical Captains so powerful. It's the Alpha..
While I do agree that double stacking buffs that share a global cool down is an exploit, it is not just the Tactical Boff skills that can be double stacked.
Example: Having two Emergency Powers active at the same time...
Nothing that shares a global cool down should be able to be double stacked, however a higher ranked version of a currently active buff should be allowed to remove and replace the lower ranked version of said buff.
My sci captain does almost as much DPS as my tac captain using subnuke and sensor scan in place of said alpha
my engy doesnt have either but can still do respectable dps. attack pattern beta or omega do much the same job alpha does (in their own way, one by reducing resists, the other by increasing damage to a lesser extent), and are available to anyone.
Additonally, the boff skills ARE what makes them so powerful. CSV3, APB3, APO3, and BFAW3 are the three most powerful skills in this game, and I will stand firmly by that.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If anyone remembers a time long ago when they first started STO, and having shield facings mattered and damage stuck, that's where I'm starting.
The initial feel of space combat was great. Every torpedo mattered, and you could feel the anticipation behind each beam firing, whether it hit or missed. This was the time when every shot counted, and had lasting effect - because regeneration and resistances weren't sky high. But at the same time, it was balanced because it was actually hard to pull off a one shot kill. There was balance because damage was not simply brushed aside, but also not overwhelming in bursts.
Those were the most fun times in STO space combat, before Tactical Team made escorts tanks.
Now for part 2 - the alternative to the damage/healing cycle. It is sadly true that STO is DPS centric, but NOT solely because of the power creep of damage abilities, but because there is no other way to defeat an NPC or player except to destroy them with damage. It is because all three classes vie for the same place to shine - Damage. If this game implemented more ways to render a ship/person defeated, this game would have much less DPS/tanking debates and balance issues.
For example, one of the most overlooked systems in the game is crew count. If ships were "defeated" by a crew count of 0 and/or taken over by a hostile boarding party, I could definitely see a huge player base shift to flying cruisers. If ships could reach a point of no return in a gravity well with an instant death or something close, Sci ships would suddenly seem very viable in ESTFs. What if a drain build could actually kill - all power on a ship like life support dies off. The point is, DPS would no longer be the singular way of destroying something in the game.
Its about time tactical captains got a big nerf bat to their tactical focused ships an...(snip for brevity and emphasis)
to go live with tomorrows patch:
I will never understand the petty cheers for nerfing someone else's game. Yes, I am thrilled science abilities got a much deserved buff, but being happy another player class got nerfed is sad.
This ability change effects every class. Torpedo builds will feel a big hit as they more than most are high risk high reward with a big investment to spec. Engineers in escorts will fee this as will sci captains using shield stripping abilities combined with Tac boosted weapons.
Stop waging wars on each other and focus on improving the short comings of under performing abilities so every career choice is equal without taking away from someone else.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Comments
Looking forward to the improvements to carrier pet intercept mode..... I like running my carrier pets in intercept mode and keep a doff stationed to increase accuracy in that mode.
With current technology and player wants there are four options,
1: A combat based MMO. Which is the easiest to provide and the most exciting.
2: A turn based/RTS strategy platform where players control task forces/fleets and issue orders.
3: A rank/ship based MMO. One player is the Captain, another is the first officer, etc. Players skills and training are required and needed for all duties. Combat, repair, exploration. The problem with this is - Everyone wants to be the Captain, Chief Engineer, or CMO. No one wants to be Fred the Redshirt.
Or 4: A complete Single player Sim. Bridge Commander enhanced, would be the best mix of combat and pure 'Trek' - but going from Single player sim to MMO would slap you right into option 3.
Star Trek Online is the average model for an MMO atm. Log in, blow something up, get a token, make new friends. You log on, complete your daily, you get 'paid'. It's a basic play/reward mentality and unfortunately it works. Also unfortunately - most players have realized in this game like most others - the DPS completes their daily grind the fastest. Unlike other games, STO really doesn't need tanks or healers - the Content just doesn't need them - so you wind up pushing your dps no matter what role/ship you play. Even the Grav Well/Tychen's Rift upgrades aren't about their utility so much as 'Now they do more damage!'.
I'm glad Science is getting a boost, I honestly am. However, no matter your ship or profession - you are 'all about the dps' right now.
Don't I know it - pugging a ISE the other day - warp in - 5 sci captains in 5 sci ships - I'm saying to myself right off the bat "getting the optional is going to be close to impossible" The timer just does not allow for it. Of course today warped in with 5 tacs in tac heavy ships and we had like 8 min left on optional.
So 5 tacs = easy time + Guaranteed bonus rewards
5 sci = much tougher/longer time + bonus hard to get.
Of course selling aux powered weapons through the fleet system or dilithium store to all Science ships may help in this matter.
I would also like to add that this whole double tap thing was started thanks to a certain DOff with the name 'Marion Francis Dulmur' who made it possible that people could fire BO's without any loss of power. Since I own this very expensive DOff I'm glad Cryptic did not nerf him but instead everything else
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Let's start with the main topic:
First off, I too agree that it's not a major nerf to any profession at any rank. The only thing this changes is the ability to fire 2 Beam Overloads or 2 Torpedo High Yield/Spread in rapid succession. Other than that, there is no noticeable difference to the Tac. Boff Abilities. I am also glad to hear that Science Abilities like GW and TR are getting better scaling.
Mainly from the following comments, I heard of two interesting things regarding DPS. One being that there's been a power creep that's all in favor of high end DPS output wins everything and sadly, that's true. The problem lies in 2 areas of the game: The dichotomy between Damage and Health/Resists.
Let me explain: IF STO decided that all the ships should have LOW health...let's say 5k for escort, 6k for Sci, and maybe 8k for cruisers, we wouldn't be complaining about doing too little damage with cannons, beams, torps, etc. that do 2k DPS or even less damage. There would be much more reason to play strategically with positioning since everyone can die easily (some more than others).
However, because we have ships that are 200k+ in elite missions (and sometimes a lot of them), people have no choice, but to resort to every means of high DPS. Any DPS under 3-4k relative to such high health and damage resistance is simply not viable, especially against mission timers. And so, began the power creep of high DPS builds (Tacscorts).
Which is where we are today: we have the situation now where people are complaining about not being able to tank AND not doing enough damage. And if Cryptic implemented even more tanking options OR more damage abilities, this cycle would have come full circle.
I know what I wrote above may be a bit confusing for some, but let me give you a clear example of what I thought STO should have been: If anyone remembers a time long ago when they first started STO, and having shield facings mattered and damage stuck, that's where I'm starting.
The initial feel of space combat was great. Every torpedo mattered, and you could feel the anticipation behind each beam firing, whether it hit or missed. This was the time when every shot counted, and had lasting effect - because regeneration and resistances weren't sky high. But at the same time, it was balanced because it was actually hard to pull off a one shot kill. There was balance because damage was not simply brushed aside, but also not overwhelming in bursts.
Now for part 2 - the alternative to the damage/healing cycle. It is sadly true that STO is DPS centric, but NOT solely because of the power creep of damage abilities, but because there is no other way to defeat an NPC or player except to destroy them with damage. It is because all three classes vie for the same place to shine - Damage. If this game implemented more ways to render a ship/person defeated, this game would have much less DPS/tanking debates and balance issues.
For example, one of the most overlooked systems in the game is crew count. If ships were "defeated" by a crew count of 0 and/or taken over by a hostile boarding party, I could definitely see a huge player base shift to flying cruisers. If ships could reach a point of no return in a gravity well with an instant death or something close, Sci ships would suddenly seem very viable in ESTFs. What if a drain build could actually kill - all power on a ship like life support dies off. The point is, DPS would no longer be the singular way of destroying something in the game.
Just my 2 cents
P.S. Sorry for ranting, but I'm am sick of hearing complaints about anything DPS and Cross Healing related.
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
It was a simple move to generate excitement among players that, "Cryptic cares about Science now!" but in reality, keeping Science in its place... in the basement.
What worries me is that they felt the need to include cannon and mine abilities. Everyone that plays and has a clue as to how these interact with multiple copies of each would know they already can't be stacked. So why mention them at all? Makes me think they shoved the fix off to some newby or an intern who has NO IDEA of what's what. That's just begging for sloppy work.
As far as a buff to sci. Its a HUGE buff to sci. They can spam photonic fleet even more now. So PvP will become even more annoying, yay. Its all roms and scis now. As the last pitifully small bastion of non fail gameplay falls, let us all observe a moment of silence for PvP.
Stop and think about what you're writing, even for just a moment. How are tac ships becoming more powerful exactly? By getting hybridized with cruisers and sci vessels? I think what you're actually thinking of is that gear creep has not been accompanied by tougher opponents or better AI, as well as poor goals being set for team content.
just wait...now cryptic will nerf Marion :P
This didnt change a damn thing for any of my tacs >=]
But I will say some of the overreaction "TRIBBLE wiggling" is pretty lulzy. This change did nothing to make tacs less viable and other profs moreso.
So its all bluster.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
and the dmg of tykons rift is increased, flat by 35%...isn't it now actually close to the dmg of grav well?
i'm gonna change my grav wells to tykons rift, that is how the grav well and tykons rift change seem to affect me.
sure all in all it is a long overdue buff for science captains and a nerf to a mechanic that was rather questionable, but imho this is far from an attempt at balancing. Feels more like a hotfix.
would have liked to see the operative trait and basically all other boff traits beeing "non-stackable" for instance. some are, some aren't that is just not a way to go.
Was honestly hoping to avoid having to shell out 500 friggin Zen for a respec, because my current spec is really focused towards boosting energy/projectile damage, stealth, and innate healing/resist/hullstrength/shieldstrength. Fairly limited speccing into sci skills.
Now that Cryptic seems to think making it harder to kill quickly is a good idea (while doing nothing about the absurd amount of tanking and defense levels, of course), I may have little choice but to allocate gameplay time towards getting that zen to pay the exorbitant respec prices.
so you want science which is for debuff to do dps.If you want high level sci skills to do damage then tactical high level powers should do debuff .
everything sciency that does damage has to be nerfed.Science is not for dps....you want a science something in PvE ask the developers to create content for science .
I to am scared a little about this, that is why in one of my posts I said to Cryptic that this is just a "START" of the buffing they need to do to science abilities.
However, there is a problem - and that is damage.
Damage - or the most damage you can do the fastest is all that matters in this game.
Most High end science abilities were designed not as super duper damage dealing abilities, but as Command and Control abilities - which I would be totally fine with if there was not this mass need to deal high damage to be effective.
Science was never a class that was designed to stand on it's own really in a fight. it was designed to work in the trinity - it brought the heal and the command and control - so the tactical could come by and do the damage. But the game has totally moved away from that to a tactical captain and ship can do everything- especially with the rep passives and new gear.
let me say that I am not "running around laughing at tac captains or tac ships - I have 8 tacticals and most of my ships are tactical(Defiant retrofit, MVAM retrofit, Chet Ghet, B'rel retrofit, Most KDF Battle Crusiers, Mogai, T'Varo retrofit, Dhelan retrofit - just to name a few of my tac ships) I am just bored with the constant power creep in the game geared toward tactical - it's friggin getting OLD!!
So damage seems to be the way of the game and the trinity is long gone. So now Cryptic needs to give Science the power to be more than Command and control, it needs to give them the damage dealing to.
Some of that was Aux based weapons - they should sell them for science ships in the fleet stores or the dilithium stores - and not for just the Vesta - all science ships. They also need to make Beam aux weapons.
This is where Cryptic needs to go with science - fixing some basic issues with how the skills work is just the beginning!!
Also the rank of the buff should be the factor in overriding an already active buff.
Adding an addition 5sec on tacital skills is the same as adding an additional 5sec to it's glodal cooldown. That hurts everyone across the board.
Tyken's Rift will remain junky until you've added the chance to randomly spawn mirror vessels out of player created rifts.
Tachyon Beam needs loving...
That is an AWESOME idea!! A cmdr level 3 Tyken's rift spawns a mass amount of mirror ships that attack for you. And they stay around until destroyed, unlike photonic.
Make it so!!
Attack Pattern Beta 3 VS Any Sci Boff ability still leaves APB3 on top, by far.
Gravity Well 1 will deal a bit more damage on my toons that use it, that is about all the changes will amount to in the end.
But where is the Engineering buff?
I stated that it is a start - only a start - cryptic needs to keep going if it is going to make science more viable. Since Tacs don't "need" science around to assist them any more, then science needs to be changed to be the same jack of all abilities.
2 things they should do right away:
1.) Cmdr lvl 3 science abilities need a MAJOR damage boost
2.) they should sell in fleet stores or the dilithium stores aux based canons and beams to ALL science ships.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Um, they already stated that sci abilities being able to destroy enemy frigates is too powerful so not gonna happen.
No.
/10char
While I do agree that double stacking buffs that share a global cool down is an exploit, it is not just the Tactical Boff skills that can be double stacked.
Example: Having two Emergency Powers active at the same time...
Nothing that shares a global cool down should be able to be double stacked, however a higher ranked version of a currently active buff should be allowed to remove and replace the lower ranked version of said buff.
My sci captain does almost as much DPS as my tac captain using subnuke and sensor scan in place of said alpha
my engy doesnt have either but can still do respectable dps. attack pattern beta or omega do much the same job alpha does (in their own way, one by reducing resists, the other by increasing damage to a lesser extent), and are available to anyone.
Additonally, the boff skills ARE what makes them so powerful. CSV3, APB3, APO3, and BFAW3 are the three most powerful skills in this game, and I will stand firmly by that.
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Tactical high level powers do debuff. Attack Pattern Beta 3 and Attack Pattern Delta 3.
Those were the most fun times in STO space combat, before Tactical Team made escorts tanks.
I like these ideas.
That moment came and went a long time ago.
Dumb question So does this mean you can't use: Beam Fire At Will, and High Yield Torpedo at the same time Now?
I will never understand the petty cheers for nerfing someone else's game. Yes, I am thrilled science abilities got a much deserved buff, but being happy another player class got nerfed is sad.
This ability change effects every class. Torpedo builds will feel a big hit as they more than most are high risk high reward with a big investment to spec. Engineers in escorts will fee this as will sci captains using shield stripping abilities combined with Tac boosted weapons.
Stop waging wars on each other and focus on improving the short comings of under performing abilities so every career choice is equal without taking away from someone else.
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