I'm getting old, but I don't choose to speak about what the "creators" wanted - as far too much of that has been whitewashed into history since Gene has been dead.
I'll simply say what I always say: Trek was written by Hollywood writers, not scientists. Trek's ships were created by artists, not engineers. Trek is whatever any given writer wants to make it in any given episode, all entirely dependent on budget for that episode. Thus when ships went CGI rather then model you started seeing things like Peregrines being used - because no one wanted to make 50 Peregrine models and have to black-shoot them pre-CGI era.
And finally I'll simply point out that CBS had to approve the use of Carriers in STO. Cryptic can't just do what they want. CBS gets to vet everything added to this game: every mission, every uniform, every race, and every ship. So if STO is turning into Carriers Online that's as much CBS's fault as it is Cryptic's.
yes true, but there have been three shows since genes passing.. and the creators therefore after, and cbs didnt have carriers (probably cause they didnt want to come of battle star galactish..)..
and I in no way was trying to make scientific claims.. all im saying is that carriers and fighters (small small single man fighters) have never been a part of the genre that is star trek..
when cryptic first got onstage at a convention (and i was there) and introduced the game, they knew they were talking to a pure trek crowd... and i have reason to believe that they made stuff up on the fly.. like.. that this game was gonna be the closest to canon than anygame had ever been.. (not exact words, but for the most part the gyst).. they made statements saying that cbs was looking to make this an extension of the universe (since no shows were airing or in the works at the time). and that this game was first and foremost for the star trek fan..
i will admit, the first year was pretty good.. they didnt get sloppy with lore, or get silly at all.. but then, it started to change, and reguardless of whos running the ship or what not, they created a buisness platform and did not stick to it.. which is why shortly after the first year, alot of the "trekkie" players ditched...
as for cbs authorizing it.. i seem to remember when players were crying for a fed carrier, they kept saying that no, cbs wont give us the green light.. (and my guess is, that the continued pressure made cbs cave..). as it will make them cave about a the redonkulous idea of a t5 connie, but that is another argument for another time hahahaha..
then cryptic completed the de-trekking of star trek, by introducing the not romulan fraction.. what in the world are these romulans.. certainly not the ones the show created.. lol.. the idea, that the most powerfull empire in the alpha and beta quadrant, fell apart with the destruction of thier homeworld (which isnt really their homeworld) was absurd, and still is... if washington dc gets nuked tomorrow, the chain of command picks up in another city.. and.. its not like the shockwave came from no where, they had time for spock and the vulcans to equip a ship with red matter, fly all the way to romulan space, (which isnt around the corner) and try to save the planet.. at least a few days there.. they had ample time to figure the logistics of it out.. not to mention, the romulan empire was made up of thousands of panets and hundreds of systems..
ok off topic, but.. making the point that they are kind of making some pretty sad decisions about this game lately.. including making almost every ship a carrier.. im so sick of carriers.. and then wasting time developing new tech for carriers, in a game where there shouldnt be carriers, well, thats just the icing on the cake lol.. carriers should have stayed klink, as i like when factions have defining differences.. but instead, sto went the way of every other game, and made cookie cutter factions.. even allowing each side to have their special consoles..
i say no to more carriers, and call for the devs to try to dig this game out of the hole its been dug into. bring it back to basics like you had in the first year.. (just not with as many bugs..)... lol...
They added a hangar bay because without it it was an Achira withtout a hangar bay. Almost the same seating (an ensign engi instead of tac, and universal instead of engi), same weapons slots, number of consoles, both escort...
Clearly show how bad the ship was.
Now, it's an average ship. The seating is still meh, and the quad cannon still useless though.
while right now, i am flying an akira class, and using the hangar bays.. (not cause i like it, but cause im sick of getting complaints in stf's and what not that im somehow lacking in dps cause i chose not to use it..) but i felt the carrier system is not needed.. it causes balance issues, headaches, and is taking up all sorts of develpments time..
You don't need a carrier to have proper DPS. My biggest DPS is on the Kumari, without any pet (I don't use the cannons consoles).
I don't understand why everyone is whining about non trek Carrier, when they are mentioned on the show, and the fighters are seen. On the other hand, they do'nt seems to care to see Romulan Scimitar with Thalaron weapon orbiting Earth, 200yo ships still flying, and Jem'hadar/Tholian/Breen ship everywhere. Nobody seems to care that Starfleet allow the use of future ship inside their fleets, no matter what the temporal rules says. But yeah, otherwise, Carrier is the number 1 problem of STO canon. :rolleyes:
then cryptic completed the de-trekking of star trek, by introducing the not romulan fraction.. what in the world are these romulans.. certainly not the ones the show created.. lol.. the idea, that the most powerfull empire in the alpha and beta quadrant, fell apart with the destruction of thier homeworld (which isnt really their homeworld) was absurd, and still is... if washington dc gets nuked tomorrow, the chain of command picks up in another city.. and.. its not like the shockwave came from no where, they had time for spock and the vulcans to equip a ship with red matter, fly all the way to romulan space, (which isnt around the corner) and try to save the planet.. at least a few days there.. they had ample time to figure the logistics of it out.. not to mention, the romulan empire was made up of thousands of panets and hundreds of systems..
I think you really understate the impact. A better comparison would be England having London (with the queen and both houses in session) nuked. The US as a country is very decentralized, yes a lot of our government is centralized but culturally we have a lot of competing cities.
I rather doubt that the Romulan Empire was as big as you suggest, and almost all of its production/research/education was centralized. (it about had to be, historically all "Empires" were very centrally managed)
I actually thought the Romulan concept was pretty good, and it let a third faction be added with unique ships without having to develop that much more content and missions.
I also think they did a half decent job of how they have brought in carriers (once they made the decision to actually DO so - and they were definitely needed to balance out the Klingons , IMO.
Using the Caitans to introduce a fed carrier was probably inevitable though. At least they didn't start adding fleet carriers to Fed...
All this said, I admit to being fond of carriers for PVE. My Romulan bought a Recluse, and my Klingon flies a VoQ. At least the alternative 2 bay carriers are all cross faction. Lots of Canon-space for minor enemy groups to have carriers -- especially JH.
Quite frankly the should add hangars to ALL starships with an appearant bay, such as federation cruisers and science ships.
Canonicly the Galaxy class had a total of three shuttlebays, one of them being massive enough to easily hold multiple Danube class runabouts, and did.
The Constellation class like the U.S.S. Stargazer even had as many as "7" shuttlebays.
Even the original Constitution Class Enterprise had a shuttle complement of 4 standard shuttlecraft.
And I should point out that Fed players have access to shuttlecraft and runabouts as hangar pets, no large destroyers like the KDF.
Quite frankly, people who claim that carrier-type ships and the use of auxillary craft in combat is not Trek, are completely wrong.
I think the better question is why are so many small craft being put in harm's way?
Do these crewmen mean nothing?
Get rid of all the hangars!!!
It's far more canon!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] A wolf remains a wolf, even if it has not eaten your sheep.
So the new Tactical Romulan Warbird gets a hanger added to it totally out of the blue - like wham slap a hanger on that escort.
So I figure why not at least add 1 hanger to all ships and those that have a hanger get bumped up to 2 hangers - seems reasonable?
I really am going to need someone to detail just how to use a carrier well as I still have no idea.
And since the game is going full carrier's online it better be quick!!
We have a new FE coming soon that will award a carrier - perhaps the next C-store ship for season 8 will be like a super carrier with like 4 hanger bays - spawning like a whole fleet.
Or I know - why not just have a ship so big that it launches 2 full sized T5 starships as pets?? That would be cool!!
Clearly the ship was under performing sales wise so instead of taking the time and effort to make it an interestinf design in a sea of OPRom warbirds, they decided to simply slap a hangar on it, hoping for some of that HEC sales magic!
Naturally, its way better than a HEC, but that's standard for a Rom ship. Have to ensure those sales and all!
the only ones that should have hangers are the kdf ships.
since when do the feds send people out to die.
Lol, since when does teh KDF use fighters at all? We've at least seen fed fighters on screen. Alas, I think the existance of KDF fighters and carriers were an attempt tomake the KDF more compelling as a faction. I think even early on during the design stages Cryptic knew few would want to play as KDF, and then when tehy decided to make it a full faction.... well. What better prize to get after the punishing KDF level up grind than a shiny carrier? Its no coincidence you could ONLY get a carrier at max level.
Feds have canon fighters, so presumably carriers, Romulans have canon fighters and carriers (well Remans but whatever), KDF do not.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I think the better question is why are so many small craft being put in harm's way?
Do these crewmen mean nothing?
Get rid of all the hangars!!!
It's far more canon!!
I am serious though - like I feel left out or something because I don't have a ship with a hanger - like I'm a old man who has not gotten a cell phone yet and I still use a typewriter.
Are carriers the new way of the game and I am just like the old folk left behind?
It's ok, After I brought a Vesta my life changed. Then I moved up to a Atrox. Now I'm addicted to Carriers, and for the past three weeks I've been tearing things up in PVE with a Jem Hadar Dreadnought Carrier. Try a Vesta and you may have an idea of the best of both worlds.
lol you called it true...those 3 pack ships barely sold , i think about 1 guy in the 3 fleets im in actually got them ..such a bust .
i think this is the first time ever they actually add a feature to a ship after its even being handed to the testers.
now plz cryptic can i have my full blown 2 hanger carrier ? :P
No one in my fleet or in my 13 friends fleets are flying one. I thought that was strange. But when the Romulan Scimitar came out everyone and their Grandma' was flying one. I just assumed everyone was still happy with their Scimitar to get another ship.
Not everyone loves Carriers. But to be honest, the most fun I've had during STF's is when their is two other carriers (besides my JHDC). Yes I admit we all Pet spam the map (and all I can do is laugh like the joker). Just yesterday it was my JHDC, another JHDC, 2x Romulan Scimitar's and a Heavy escort Carrier. I don't need to tell you how we finished the cure STF in just 6 minutes or so with (atleast) 20 pets flying around. ahhh good times...:D
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Although I don't use any carrier ships(out of maybe 15 c-store ships) I will definitely get the one from the upcoming FE and see how it goes. I hope they do some type of carrier tutorial - either in game or in the blog.
The addition of the hanger to the new romulan tactical ship - totally out of the blue - definitely sets the precident that they could add hangers to any ship.
The super larger open bay under the Excel or the Super larger hanger doors on the Galaxy could easily support a hanger of runabouts - at this point I don't think there is much argument against giving some ships in the line up a hanger slot. Certainly it is technically possible to just add it in out of nowhere:eek::D
Although I don't use any carrier ships(out of maybe 15 c-store ships) I will definitely get the one from the upcoming FE and see how it goes. I hope they do some type of carrier tutorial - either in game or in the blog.
The addition of the hanger to the new romulan tactical ship - totally out of the blue - definitely sets the precident that they could add hangers to any ship.
The super larger open bay under the Excel or the Super larger hanger doors on the Galaxy could easily support a hanger of runabouts - at this point I don't think there is much argument against giving some ships in the line up a hanger slot. Certainly it is technically possible to just add it in out of nowhere:eek::D
shhhh...silence....be careful, some people on here hate Carriers and they're really pissed off at how this game is turning into Carriers Online. Also, I recommend getting a single slot hangar ship to practice with. It takes some time to learn how to keep your pets alive so they can earn that elusive 5 stars, but once they do, the damage they deal really helps.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Comments
yes true, but there have been three shows since genes passing.. and the creators therefore after, and cbs didnt have carriers (probably cause they didnt want to come of battle star galactish..)..
and I in no way was trying to make scientific claims.. all im saying is that carriers and fighters (small small single man fighters) have never been a part of the genre that is star trek..
when cryptic first got onstage at a convention (and i was there) and introduced the game, they knew they were talking to a pure trek crowd... and i have reason to believe that they made stuff up on the fly.. like.. that this game was gonna be the closest to canon than anygame had ever been.. (not exact words, but for the most part the gyst).. they made statements saying that cbs was looking to make this an extension of the universe (since no shows were airing or in the works at the time). and that this game was first and foremost for the star trek fan..
i will admit, the first year was pretty good.. they didnt get sloppy with lore, or get silly at all.. but then, it started to change, and reguardless of whos running the ship or what not, they created a buisness platform and did not stick to it.. which is why shortly after the first year, alot of the "trekkie" players ditched...
as for cbs authorizing it.. i seem to remember when players were crying for a fed carrier, they kept saying that no, cbs wont give us the green light.. (and my guess is, that the continued pressure made cbs cave..). as it will make them cave about a the redonkulous idea of a t5 connie, but that is another argument for another time hahahaha..
then cryptic completed the de-trekking of star trek, by introducing the not romulan fraction.. what in the world are these romulans.. certainly not the ones the show created.. lol.. the idea, that the most powerfull empire in the alpha and beta quadrant, fell apart with the destruction of thier homeworld (which isnt really their homeworld) was absurd, and still is... if washington dc gets nuked tomorrow, the chain of command picks up in another city.. and.. its not like the shockwave came from no where, they had time for spock and the vulcans to equip a ship with red matter, fly all the way to romulan space, (which isnt around the corner) and try to save the planet.. at least a few days there.. they had ample time to figure the logistics of it out.. not to mention, the romulan empire was made up of thousands of panets and hundreds of systems..
ok off topic, but.. making the point that they are kind of making some pretty sad decisions about this game lately.. including making almost every ship a carrier.. im so sick of carriers.. and then wasting time developing new tech for carriers, in a game where there shouldnt be carriers, well, thats just the icing on the cake lol.. carriers should have stayed klink, as i like when factions have defining differences.. but instead, sto went the way of every other game, and made cookie cutter factions.. even allowing each side to have their special consoles..
i say no to more carriers, and call for the devs to try to dig this game out of the hole its been dug into. bring it back to basics like you had in the first year.. (just not with as many bugs..)... lol...
Clearly show how bad the ship was.
Now, it's an average ship. The seating is still meh, and the quad cannon still useless though.
You don't need a carrier to have proper DPS. My biggest DPS is on the Kumari, without any pet (I don't use the cannons consoles).
I don't understand why everyone is whining about non trek Carrier, when they are mentioned on the show, and the fighters are seen. On the other hand, they do'nt seems to care to see Romulan Scimitar with Thalaron weapon orbiting Earth, 200yo ships still flying, and Jem'hadar/Tholian/Breen ship everywhere. Nobody seems to care that Starfleet allow the use of future ship inside their fleets, no matter what the temporal rules says. But yeah, otherwise, Carrier is the number 1 problem of STO canon. :rolleyes:
Be careful what you wish for. Not so long ago I sarcastically said I wanted a Monbosh battleship....
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I think you really understate the impact. A better comparison would be England having London (with the queen and both houses in session) nuked. The US as a country is very decentralized, yes a lot of our government is centralized but culturally we have a lot of competing cities.
I rather doubt that the Romulan Empire was as big as you suggest, and almost all of its production/research/education was centralized. (it about had to be, historically all "Empires" were very centrally managed)
I actually thought the Romulan concept was pretty good, and it let a third faction be added with unique ships without having to develop that much more content and missions.
I also think they did a half decent job of how they have brought in carriers (once they made the decision to actually DO so - and they were definitely needed to balance out the Klingons , IMO.
Using the Caitans to introduce a fed carrier was probably inevitable though. At least they didn't start adding fleet carriers to Fed...
All this said, I admit to being fond of carriers for PVE. My Romulan bought a Recluse, and my Klingon flies a VoQ. At least the alternative 2 bay carriers are all cross faction.
Canonicly the Galaxy class had a total of three shuttlebays, one of them being massive enough to easily hold multiple Danube class runabouts, and did.
The Constellation class like the U.S.S. Stargazer even had as many as "7" shuttlebays.
Even the original Constitution Class Enterprise had a shuttle complement of 4 standard shuttlecraft.
And I should point out that Fed players have access to shuttlecraft and runabouts as hangar pets, no large destroyers like the KDF.
Quite frankly, people who claim that carrier-type ships and the use of auxillary craft in combat is not Trek, are completely wrong.
Do these crewmen mean nothing?
Get rid of all the hangars!!!
It's far more canon!!
A wolf remains a wolf, even if it has not eaten your sheep.
I would kill for a good Babylon 5 MMO.
Clearly the ship was under performing sales wise so instead of taking the time and effort to make it an interestinf design in a sea of OPRom warbirds, they decided to simply slap a hangar on it, hoping for some of that HEC sales magic!
Naturally, its way better than a HEC, but that's standard for a Rom ship. Have to ensure those sales and all!
since when do the feds send people out to die.
Lol, since when does teh KDF use fighters at all? We've at least seen fed fighters on screen. Alas, I think the existance of KDF fighters and carriers were an attempt tomake the KDF more compelling as a faction. I think even early on during the design stages Cryptic knew few would want to play as KDF, and then when tehy decided to make it a full faction.... well. What better prize to get after the punishing KDF level up grind than a shiny carrier? Its no coincidence you could ONLY get a carrier at max level.
Since the Dominion War. :rolleyes:
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I use Romulan drones..... no crew.
It's ok, After I brought a Vesta my life changed. Then I moved up to a Atrox. Now I'm addicted to Carriers, and for the past three weeks I've been tearing things up in PVE with a Jem Hadar Dreadnought Carrier. Try a Vesta and you may have an idea of the best of both worlds.
No one in my fleet or in my 13 friends fleets are flying one. I thought that was strange. But when the Romulan Scimitar came out everyone and their Grandma' was flying one. I just assumed everyone was still happy with their Scimitar to get another ship.
Not everyone loves Carriers. But to be honest, the most fun I've had during STF's is when their is two other carriers (besides my JHDC). Yes I admit we all Pet spam the map (and all I can do is laugh like the joker). Just yesterday it was my JHDC, another JHDC, 2x Romulan Scimitar's and a Heavy escort Carrier. I don't need to tell you how we finished the cure STF in just 6 minutes or so with (atleast) 20 pets flying around. ahhh good times...:D
The addition of the hanger to the new romulan tactical ship - totally out of the blue - definitely sets the precident that they could add hangers to any ship.
The super larger open bay under the Excel or the Super larger hanger doors on the Galaxy could easily support a hanger of runabouts - at this point I don't think there is much argument against giving some ships in the line up a hanger slot. Certainly it is technically possible to just add it in out of nowhere:eek::D
shhhh...silence....be careful, some people on here hate Carriers and they're really pissed off at how this game is turning into Carriers Online. Also, I recommend getting a single slot hangar ship to practice with. It takes some time to learn how to keep your pets alive so they can earn that elusive 5 stars, but once they do, the damage they deal really helps.