The KDF failed because it tried to force people to PvP to advance, and most of the player base being die hard PvEers wants nothing to do with PvP.
The KDF only started gaining interest after the devs started adding PvE content
Sure, they try to force player to play a broken and forgotten PVP. That was the only thing that kdf players had back in the day, a broken system.
But that was not what cryptic told us, they told us that KDF failed because fans just wanted to play with Federation. They told us that they even have studies about it in the same way that you said they have studies showing how much players hate a good PVP system (not this current joke). They were wrong then and I guess they are wrong now.
That is ok, you don?t like PVP, but a MMO with out PVP is a table missing a leg.. the same thing can be said about Crafting. Yes, sure, a table can have only one leg and still be functional but is not stable as a 4 legs table.
Just another example, back in the days they said that players just hated STFs, that players loved to play just simple story missions and that challenge PVE was not a thing for this CASUAL game. Now, they rework the old broken and forgotten STFs and now they are the thing that ppl most play.
I guess you are new in the game, because an old vet know that cryptic is usually wrong about what players want.
When I think of starbase PvP all i can see is logistical issues. I cant see a starbase being very maneuverable. if that is the case then does that mean both waring factions desided to build a starbase right next to each other just for the sake to see whose starbase is better? why didnt the one side decide to destroy the others starbase before they finished building it.
If we can put weapons on it and it can move then why not bring the starbase into stfs with us. or take it into other missions and fly it directly and make it a 3 starbase bundle pack that we can by from the c-store to fly around in.
1) PvP is on life-support, they're not going to invest a ton of resources on it.
2) The majority of STO players don't want to PvP - if you make them PvP to obtain the best gear, they'll quit.
3) Everyone hates the rep grinds. Adding one coupled to PvP is an almost perfect way to kill the game.
Well, i can only speak for myself, but (as someone who does not pvp at all in sto)
i would use such a game mode, im just not a fan of "aimless pvp" like flying arround and shooting people for the sake of it.
When your only argument is "you are wrong because I said so" is when a discussion is over.
Thanks and see you around.
I get that you don't like reality. But refusing to accept it isn't going to get you very far.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
It's not my argument. Cryptic has the data-mining that proves it to their satisfaction.
You're the one who has been arguing "you are wrong because I said so" with your "If they just fix PvP it will be popular" proclamations.
But please feel free to ignore me if it helps you feel better. I don't mind and it's only fair since Cryptic, over a hundred thousand players, and I have been ignoring PvP for over 3 years.
no no no no ... no .....
you are forgetting the obviously true speculation made about your position in this scenario...sheese it was made only a page ago ... do you forget so easily ?:
" ... you are new in the game, because an old vet know that cryptic is usually wrong about what players want. "
:rolleyes::cool:
it's so easy to see you are 'new here' ...duhhhhhh :P
.
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I get that you don't like reality. But refusing to accept it isn't going to get you very far.
Humm.. something very similar was said about when we asked for a fix on the old STFs.. and even more similar when we asked for a fix to KDF..
Humm.. deja vu.. lol
See you in STFs.. yes, the ones that cryptic said long time ago that no one wanted to play, lol.
Hoo.. and enjoy the new rep that is coming in Season 8, beacose cryptic know what players want, and looks like we want a new rep grind! Yeaaaaaaaaaaaa! lol
Humm.. something very similar was said about when we asked for a fix on the old STFs.. and even more similar when we asked for a fix to KDF..
So you're claiming that KDF is fixed now? Because the very same claims being made here for PvP (i.e., if Cryptic fixed it, people would play it), have been found to be totally specious.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Well, i can only speak for myself, but (as someone who does not pvp at all in sto)
i would use such a game mode, im just not a fan of "aimless pvp" like flying arround and shooting people for the sake of it.
I know. I'm having fun with the mental image the thread title has. "Starbase vs. Starbase PVP"
I agree but I don't think adding it would "Kill the game", but I think participation would be extremely low...
Making the "best gear in the game" means you'll get some non-pvpers try PVP and then realize why they hate PVP at best, at worst you'll increase moochers, leachers, etc who are only in it for the gear. That may provide some short term PVP boost but eventually all those "easy targets" the OP hopes to sucker in will disappear
Tying a rep grind to PVP is fine for those who are grinding PVP anyway, but I don't think anyone actually likes them. It's certainly not going to draw someone into PVP just to experience another grind...
As amazing as they claim the game is doing with basically no resources being put into PVP, why start now? The only thing that will kill off the game is if it switches from being a casual, PVE focused game into a competitive, serious PVP oriented game.
PVP is a play style choice, there's no reason it needs to be rewarded any higher than any other style of play.
As it stands, repeating storyline missions can reward you more than PvP does. Doing Foundry missions rewards you more EC than PvP generally does.
I don't think anyone's making the claim that PvP should reward more than other styles of play. . .just that it should reward adequately, which it doesn't do right now. If I do all Ker'rat applicable missions (including dying 25 times) and the C+H mission, I might garner 3-4k dilithium. This can take a long while to do. Meanwhile, someone can run 3-4 eSTFs and get MORE than that, and do those eSTFs within an hour.
Having all the PvP missions on that idiotic rotation-availability setup has really made it hard to make PvP worth one's while resource-wise. You can't reach dil refining cap with PvP most of the time (unless you somehow had almost ALL the PvP-related missions active, and engaged in both ground and space PvP), and the EC rewards are pitiful.
I don't think anyone's making the claim that PvP should reward more than other styles of play. . .
Read the OP again.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
If there's not at least a fair number of people involved in PvP somewhere, who is buying all these [Acc]x3 weapons? It can't be PvE people, because those weapons aren't really good PvE weapons at all. SOMEONE is buying this stuff up, and isn't because they give an advantage over NPCs.
People who feel compelled to have uber builds will buy anything regardless of whether they PvP or not.
People will also buy items on the market they have no intention of using themselves because they want to resell the items for a higher price.
And if there was actually a fair number of people PvPing the PvPers wouldn't be complaining that the PvP queues are always dead.
It's true. I have to have really Shiny TRIBBLE NOW, itd be alot easier to get grinding out for it in various ways though. and more often than not i make enough EC from that grind to get the Shiny things.
Mainline PvE'er Here.
But Starbase Vs Starbase sounds EPIC.
My only question is WHO GETS TO PILOT THE STARBASE?
(Trolling aside)
Real Fleet vs Fleet action will be pretty cool, something along the lins of like 15 invaders from another Fleet vs You and 4 Fleetmates and your Starbase.
Though how lopsided would that be?
I mean i don't truly see a balance here. sure you could do 10v10 (5v5 just doesnt seem high enough) unless the Starbase wasn't very good.
Maybe Defending Team has a longer Respawn timer. As Your Shipyard Facilities become damaged Respan becomes longer (up to 90s maybe more?)
Starbase has Hit points to each Area, and each area is individually targetable.
So Shipyard 200,000k - as damage incurs respawn times are reduced
Sensor array 200,000k - as damage incurs starbase acc drops
Shield system 200,000k - as damage incurs shield systems recharge rates drop with shields going completly offline.
Weapons systems 2 seperate - Projectile 100,000k - as system gains damage time between torpedo strikes lengthens with system eventually going off line.
- Energy 100,000k Same system as projectiles.
I have no clue how to keep that going along that lines, as in whatever systems added reprecussions, and the like.
I feel like that idea would have some serious promise. I mean i would seriously play it.
Also no repairs to your Starbase during the fight. And there should be rewards for the Fleet and for the Individual.
Project Discounts.
Maybe a new Bound Module that allows you access to one tier up of Either Shipyard, Comm array or the likes. But require a set amount. so T1 fleet could get a T2 shipyard ship for Standard cost of 20,000 FC and 4 Fleet Modules or 1 Fleet Module with the Already exisitng discount system PLUS one Special Module PER Tier. so a T2 Shipyard ship would be 3 Special Modules. So on and So forth.
Inputs?
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I love all the people that are like "Wah, I don't want to PvP so no! No one should be able to! Devs need to spend moar time making me costumes!"
That being said... unless we start having interfleet PvP and the like, what exactly is the point of having a Fleet (beyond the social aspect) and a Starbase? To sit there and look pretty while soaking up Dilithium, DOffs, and other items to give you some other items? An overglorified vendor?
And if there was actually a fair number of people PvPing the PvPers wouldn't be complaining that the PvP queues are always dead.
Depends on the time of day, and what type of match. And there's also the queues - you can have 40 people sitting in the queues, and it will refuse to pop for some unknown reason. But if you want Ground... sorry. Cryptic killed any chance Ground had when it decided that giving Tacs the ability to Cloak and one-shot you from behind with a Space Shotgun was a good idea.
I don't think anyone's making the claim that PvP should reward more than other styles of play.
I mean, I'd go ahead and make that argument. Why shouldn't it? It's the one and only aspect of the game that actually requires some skill, teamwork, and effort. So called "Elite" STFs are mindnumbingly easy, Fleet Actions are nothing more than DPS races, and it's been proven (seriously, there are YouTube videos) that you can go through PvE by doing nothing than mashing spacebar and orbiting your target - no BOff abilities, no Rep passives, no Captain skills, nothing.
... but that's a whole 'nother can of worms that we can discuss elsewhere (either in another thread or via PM) if anyone would like to do that.
I love all the people that are like "Wah, I don't want to PvP so no! No one should be able to! ...
.. It's (pvp) the one and only aspect of the game that actually requires some skill, teamwork, and effort. So called "Elite" STFs are mindnumbingly easy, Fleet Actions are nothing more than DPS races, and it's been proven (seriously, there are YouTube videos) that you can go through PvE by doing nothing than mashing spacebar and orbiting your target - no BOff abilities, no Rep passives, no Captain skills, nothing.....
so you are in the 'bash PvE as an argument camp' then. good to know the polarity is balanced. :rolleyes:
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
so you are in the 'bash PvE as an argument camp' then. good to know the polarity is balanced. :rolleyes:
I'm not so much 'bash PvE' as much as 'bash the state that it's in.'
If we had more content or PvE that was actually engaging, I'd be more than happy to do some PvE. But, as it stands, I'd rather not play than play PvE - and it's frustrating that we're forced to PvE... but even more frustrating is the fact that we've got to play the same old thing we've been playing since Launch.
I also can't seem to wrap my head around the argument that this sort of content should be bypassed in favor of some PvE content. We've had nothing decent (read: something that's not terrible repetitive and an utter grind) for PvE for how long now? It doesn't look like anything good is on the horizon, either. Something like this would provide a good amount of replayability. And if you don't want to PvP, then don't... you can go on playing the same old STFs since that's apparently good enough.
Now dont call tribble dung sub par daan it took alot of work to get those little fuzzballs to take TRIBBLE
Good to see you on the forum again man
awww you get them from pvp now........... game needs a auto eject them things out the air lock!!! and i mean this not saying it to be funny even tho it is
awww you get them from pvp now........... game needs a auto eject them things out the air lock!!! and i mean this not saying it to be funny even tho it is
if done properly, like you not losing your star base. only spend ec on repairs like you do on elite missions for dying. that is acceptable.
also if they can make it that you have to defend the starbase 24/7 to get a reward of sometype like immune of attack of having x amount of real players guarding at all times
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Comments
- costumes
- pets
- titles
- skins
come to mind..
Sure, they try to force player to play a broken and forgotten PVP. That was the only thing that kdf players had back in the day, a broken system.
But that was not what cryptic told us, they told us that KDF failed because fans just wanted to play with Federation. They told us that they even have studies about it in the same way that you said they have studies showing how much players hate a good PVP system (not this current joke). They were wrong then and I guess they are wrong now.
That is ok, you don?t like PVP, but a MMO with out PVP is a table missing a leg.. the same thing can be said about Crafting. Yes, sure, a table can have only one leg and still be functional but is not stable as a 4 legs table.
Just another example, back in the days they said that players just hated STFs, that players loved to play just simple story missions and that challenge PVE was not a thing for this CASUAL game. Now, they rework the old broken and forgotten STFs and now they are the thing that ppl most play.
I guess you are new in the game, because an old vet know that cryptic is usually wrong about what players want.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
If we can put weapons on it and it can move then why not bring the starbase into stfs with us. or take it into other missions and fly it directly and make it a 3 starbase bundle pack that we can by from the c-store to fly around in.
Well, i can only speak for myself, but (as someone who does not pvp at all in sto)
i would use such a game mode, im just not a fan of "aimless pvp" like flying arround and shooting people for the sake of it.
Sure, the lord of the only true has spoken.
When your only argument is "you are wrong because I said so" is when a discussion is over.
Thanks and see you around.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
I get that you don't like reality. But refusing to accept it isn't going to get you very far.
heh. nice.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
no no no no ... no .....
you are forgetting the obviously true speculation made about your position in this scenario...sheese it was made only a page ago ... do you forget so easily ?:
" ... you are new in the game, because an old vet know that cryptic is usually wrong about what players want. "
:rolleyes::cool:
it's so easy to see you are 'new here' ...duhhhhhh :P
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Humm.. something very similar was said about when we asked for a fix on the old STFs.. and even more similar when we asked for a fix to KDF..
Humm.. deja vu.. lol
See you in STFs.. yes, the ones that cryptic said long time ago that no one wanted to play, lol.
Hoo.. and enjoy the new rep that is coming in Season 8, beacose cryptic know what players want, and looks like we want a new rep grind! Yeaaaaaaaaaaaa! lol
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
So you're claiming that KDF is fixed now? Because the very same claims being made here for PvP (i.e., if Cryptic fixed it, people would play it), have been found to be totally specious.
I know. I'm having fun with the mental image the thread title has. "Starbase vs. Starbase PVP"
As it stands, repeating storyline missions can reward you more than PvP does. Doing Foundry missions rewards you more EC than PvP generally does.
I don't think anyone's making the claim that PvP should reward more than other styles of play. . .just that it should reward adequately, which it doesn't do right now. If I do all Ker'rat applicable missions (including dying 25 times) and the C+H mission, I might garner 3-4k dilithium. This can take a long while to do. Meanwhile, someone can run 3-4 eSTFs and get MORE than that, and do those eSTFs within an hour.
Having all the PvP missions on that idiotic rotation-availability setup has really made it hard to make PvP worth one's while resource-wise. You can't reach dil refining cap with PvP most of the time (unless you somehow had almost ALL the PvP-related missions active, and engaged in both ground and space PvP), and the EC rewards are pitiful.
Read the OP again.
It's true. I have to have really Shiny TRIBBLE NOW, itd be alot easier to get grinding out for it in various ways though. and more often than not i make enough EC from that grind to get the Shiny things.
Mainline PvE'er Here.
But Starbase Vs Starbase sounds EPIC.
My only question is WHO GETS TO PILOT THE STARBASE?
(Trolling aside)
Real Fleet vs Fleet action will be pretty cool, something along the lins of like 15 invaders from another Fleet vs You and 4 Fleetmates and your Starbase.
Though how lopsided would that be?
I mean i don't truly see a balance here. sure you could do 10v10 (5v5 just doesnt seem high enough) unless the Starbase wasn't very good.
Maybe Defending Team has a longer Respawn timer. As Your Shipyard Facilities become damaged Respan becomes longer (up to 90s maybe more?)
Starbase has Hit points to each Area, and each area is individually targetable.
So Shipyard 200,000k - as damage incurs respawn times are reduced
Sensor array 200,000k - as damage incurs starbase acc drops
Shield system 200,000k - as damage incurs shield systems recharge rates drop with shields going completly offline.
Weapons systems 2 seperate - Projectile 100,000k - as system gains damage time between torpedo strikes lengthens with system eventually going off line.
- Energy 100,000k Same system as projectiles.
I have no clue how to keep that going along that lines, as in whatever systems added reprecussions, and the like.
I feel like that idea would have some serious promise. I mean i would seriously play it.
Also no repairs to your Starbase during the fight. And there should be rewards for the Fleet and for the Individual.
Project Discounts.
Maybe a new Bound Module that allows you access to one tier up of Either Shipyard, Comm array or the likes. But require a set amount. so T1 fleet could get a T2 shipyard ship for Standard cost of 20,000 FC and 4 Fleet Modules or 1 Fleet Module with the Already exisitng discount system PLUS one Special Module PER Tier. so a T2 Shipyard ship would be 3 Special Modules. So on and So forth.
Inputs?
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That being said... unless we start having interfleet PvP and the like, what exactly is the point of having a Fleet (beyond the social aspect) and a Starbase? To sit there and look pretty while soaking up Dilithium, DOffs, and other items to give you some other items? An overglorified vendor?
Depends on the time of day, and what type of match. And there's also the queues - you can have 40 people sitting in the queues, and it will refuse to pop for some unknown reason. But if you want Ground... sorry. Cryptic killed any chance Ground had when it decided that giving Tacs the ability to Cloak and one-shot you from behind with a Space Shotgun was a good idea.
I mean, I'd go ahead and make that argument. Why shouldn't it? It's the one and only aspect of the game that actually requires some skill, teamwork, and effort. So called "Elite" STFs are mindnumbingly easy, Fleet Actions are nothing more than DPS races, and it's been proven (seriously, there are YouTube videos) that you can go through PvE by doing nothing than mashing spacebar and orbiting your target - no BOff abilities, no Rep passives, no Captain skills, nothing.
... but that's a whole 'nother can of worms that we can discuss elsewhere (either in another thread or via PM) if anyone would like to do that.
so you are in the 'bash PvE as an argument camp' then. good to know the polarity is balanced. :rolleyes:
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I'm not so much 'bash PvE' as much as 'bash the state that it's in.'
If we had more content or PvE that was actually engaging, I'd be more than happy to do some PvE. But, as it stands, I'd rather not play than play PvE - and it's frustrating that we're forced to PvE... but even more frustrating is the fact that we've got to play the same old thing we've been playing since Launch.
I also can't seem to wrap my head around the argument that this sort of content should be bypassed in favor of some PvE content. We've had nothing decent (read: something that's not terrible repetitive and an utter grind) for PvE for how long now? It doesn't look like anything good is on the horizon, either. Something like this would provide a good amount of replayability. And if you don't want to PvP, then don't... you can go on playing the same old STFs since that's apparently good enough.
dont forget sub par rewards
system Lord Baal is dead
Now dont call tribble dung sub par daan it took alot of work to get those little fuzzballs to take TRIBBLE
Good to see you on the forum again man
awww you get them from pvp now........... game needs a auto eject them things out the air lock!!! and i mean this not saying it to be funny even tho it is
system Lord Baal is dead
can tovan khev be included?
god who needs a starship said he must stay so stay he does
system Lord Baal is dead
I know he is so dang clingy you try to blow him out an airlock...but he doesnt leave and he doesnt die...TOVAN KHEV IS A ROMULAN ZOMBIE!!!! :eek:
STO PvP is too sissy, too carebear. Ship respawn? Really? Lol.
STO is a PvE and fashion game.
also if they can make it that you have to defend the starbase 24/7 to get a reward of sometype like immune of attack of having x amount of real players guarding at all times
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