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Crazy Build #3 - Rainbow Skittle Boat.

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  • topsettopset Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jarheard wrote: »
    i said it before..and ill say it again .

    ACT is a TRIBBLE parser ..plz use one that doesnt show 10k dps for a basic beam cruiser ..ie not a bogus one .

    combatlogparser 0.1 / stoic ...preffer the first one .


    as for the rainbow build ...as one who like to put universal consoles and not tac consoles i have no problem with a fun rainbow build but ur bridge boff layout is not what i would use ..

    i would like to see that log parsed with combatlogparser though

    combatlogparser and stoic show HIGHER numbers due to lack of downtime. You know what? I think I still have these combat logs, I'll run it through combatlogparser JUST for you.

    Because you asked so nicely.

    Here was the first one I ran with a pug, I renamed it skittle1.txt instead of letting it autorename. I have hundreds of combat logs saved locally. I could probably find anyone one your questioning it and run it through CBLP just for you.

    http://i.imgur.com/hShfxA4.png

    So there you are, side-by-side comparison. Tell me how ACT is biased and rubbish and I should use yours?

    EDIT: I'm not running it through STOIC. I will not install that on my computer again, it's out-dated and worthless.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Kirk's Protege.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jarheard wrote: »
    i said it before..and ill say it again .

    ACT is a TRIBBLE parser ..plz use one that doesnt show 10k dps for a basic beam cruiser ..ie not a bogus one .

    combatlogparser 0.1 / stoic ...preffer the first one .

    as for the rainbow build ...as one who like to put universal consoles and not tac consoles i have no problem with a fun rainbow build but ur bridge boff layout is not what i would use ..

    I'm sorry, but coming from a man who thinks a 5x Field Gens Vesta is the best PvE setup, I think I'm going with what topset has to say. :P
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • topsettopset Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but coming from a man who thinks a 5x Field Gens Vesta is the best PvE setup, I think I'm going with what topset has to say. :P

    Hahahahahahahahaha. OK. Well, that's unique.

    I need a "Do not feed the trolls" reminder on a post-it note stuck to my monitor.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Kirk's Protege.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    johnny1051 wrote: »
    I'm not surprised by this, You know what you're doing, you know how to fly and you have access to MK XII level gear. You're smartly using energy neutral tac consoles. Skittle boats get a bad rep because they are often seen being used by inexperienced players just using low level mission rewards and slapping them all on their ships at the same time. You have enough Fleet / MKXII gear that math wise it's almost impossible to post low numbers. By the same token I could take a AUX2BAT cruiser, fly poorly, time my casts wrong and end up posting 4K DPS. Interesting experiment though, I salute you for taking the time to put this together. :)
    Yeah really. I fly a rainbow oddy on one of my chars. That was the only char of mine to get 1st more than once in the big CE special event a while back. But that build is something I've tinkered with to make it work over a period of time.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • organicmanfredorganicmanfred Member Posts: 3,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Wooooooowwww.. colorfull PewPewPew

    I am so gonna do one ship with this.
    But I am afraid the Exchange prices for the Prefire Chamber will climb up after people see the video. :D

    Have you tried this with Beams too?
  • organicmanfredorganicmanfred Member Posts: 3,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Just a thing: the Prefire Chambers boost up to 20%, beeing stacked they Loose much Punch.

    Each Energy Type console boosts up to 30%.

    So would'nt the DPS beeing much higher when you replace each Prefire Chamber with one
    Energy Type console on a higher Level?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Just a thing: the Prefire Chambers boost up to 20%, beeing stacked they Loose much Punch.

    Each Energy Type console boosts up to 30%.

    So would'nt the DPS beeing much higher when you replace each Prefire Chamber with one
    Energy Type console on a higher Level?
    lol, this is the main reason people typically don't use rainbow. But the truth is... not as much as you'd think. The effect isn't cumulative, it's additive, also it's added to the bonus you get from captain skills.

    The formula is something like:
    [%TotalDamage%] = [%BaseDamage%] * ( [%consoles%] + [%CaptainSkills%])

    Basically anything that increases base damage, especially consoles, gets added together before calculating the effect. Therefore you don't lose 10% damage for each console... I haven't quite figured out the exact amount but I estimate it's more like 2%....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Sure, it's true that you lose out on a bit of damage doing this, but you make up for it with a massive bonus to FABULOUSNESS!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • organicmanfredorganicmanfred Member Posts: 3,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    lol, this is the main reason people typically don't use rainbow. But the truth is... not as much as you'd think. The effect isn't cumulative, it's additive, also it's added to the bonus you get from captain skills.

    The formula is something like:
    [%TotalDamage%] = [%BaseDamage%] * ( [%consoles%] + [%CaptainSkills%])

    Basically anything that increases base damage, especially consoles, gets added together before calculating the effect. Therefore you don't lose 10% damage for each console... I haven't quite figured out the exact amount but I estimate it's more like 2%....

    Thanks for the clarification. That is the reason why I never bother with the math in this game. I just don't understand it.

    Sure, it's true that you lose out on a bit of damage doing this, but you make up for it with a massive bonus to FABULOUSNESS!

    So the only good console in this game is the Universal Console +100 Fabulousness with [FAB]x2 [CAP.FAB] ?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013

    Thanks for the clarification. That is the reason why I never bother with the math in this game. I just don't understand it.




    So the only good console in this game is the Universal Console +100 Fabulousness with [FAB]x2 [CAP.FAB] ?
    yeah it's not intuitive at all. But you can see the base damage of your ship weapons whenever you're on the ground. So just record the numbers, then on a space map add consoles one at a time and record how much of an increase you get.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • canisanubiscanisanubis Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    lol, this is the main reason people typically don't use rainbow. But the truth is... not as much as you'd think. The effect isn't cumulative, it's additive, also it's added to the bonus you get from captain skills.

    The formula is something like:
    [%TotalDamage%] = [%BaseDamage%] * ( [%consoles%] + [%CaptainSkills%])

    Basically anything that increases base damage, especially consoles, gets added together before calculating the effect. Therefore you don't lose 10% damage for each console... I haven't quite figured out the exact amount but I estimate it's more like 2%....

    Here, I'll break the math down, because I've done this a few times mini-maxing my own build. Let's use the beam array as a base weapon type, because it has a nice 100 DPV value, making the arithmetic easier.

    Base Mk 0 Weapon Damage: 100
    Mk XII mod: +120%
    9/9 Starship Weapons Training: +99%
    9/9 Starship Energy Weapons: +99%
    Tier II Omega Rep: +30%
    Tier IV Nukara Rep: +40% * AUX

    My ship has little trouble maintaining 50 aux power, thanks to my EPS Manifold Efficiency trait. YMMV, especially if you're a fan of Aux2Batt.

    100 + 120 + 99 + 99 + 30 + 20 = 468

    That's your base, pre-console damage output, assuming you've gotten every applicable skill boost possible. Then the skill value of each tactical console you add is another +X% of base Mk 0 Weapon Damage. So, for Mk XII very rare single-type consoles, you're getting +30 damage. So to calculate the delta, just divide the added damage by the running total.

    468 + 90 (3 tac consoles) = 558

    Adding one more tac console would add 30 damage, or 30/558 = ~5.38%

    Remember, these values are transitive with your weapon power and critical hit chance and damage, and even weapon type. So the same percentages you show for beam arrays will apply to dual heavy cannons, turrets, at any power level, etc.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Here, I'll break the math down, because I've done this a few times mini-maxing my own build. Let's use the beam array as a base weapon type, because it has a nice 100 DPV value, making the arithmetic easier.

    Base Mk 0 Weapon Damage: 100
    Mk XII mod: +120%
    9/9 Starship Weapons Training: +99%
    9/9 Starship Energy Weapons: +99%
    Tier II Omega Rep: +30%
    Tier IV Nukara Rep: +40% * AUX

    My ship has little trouble maintaining 50 aux power, thanks to my EPS Manifold Efficiency trait. YMMV, especially if you're a fan of Aux2Batt.

    100 + 120 + 99 + 99 + 30 + 20 = 468

    That's your base, pre-console damage output, assuming you've gotten every applicable skill boost possible. Then the skill value of each tactical console you add is another +X% of base Mk 0 Weapon Damage. So, for Mk XII very rare single-type consoles, you're getting +30 damage. So to calculate the delta, just divide the added damage by the running total.

    468 + 90 (3 tac consoles) = 558

    Adding one more tac console would add 30 damage, or 30/558 = ~5.38%

    Remember, these values are transitive with your weapon power and critical hit chance and damage, and even weapon type. So the same percentages you show for beam arrays will apply to dual heavy cannons, turrets, at any power level, etc.
    Ah, excellent, I figured someone around here knew the exact figures, thanks.

    In that example using rainbow would make a difference between 528 and 558. So it's a noticable difference but not large.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • canisanubiscanisanubis Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Exactly. You lose 10 skill points per console. For the Andorian Escort the OP uses, he's basically losing ~6.8% of his total damage, which is DEFINITELY noticeable, but hardly crippling. As other posters point out, flying your ship smart and getting good time on target will have a far greater effect on your total damage output.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Exactly. You lose 10 skill points per console. For the Andorian Escort the OP uses, he's basically losing ~6.8% of his total damage, which is DEFINITELY noticeable, but hardly crippling. As other posters point out, flying your ship smart and getting good time on target will have a far greater effect on your total damage output.

    He's also cleverly using regular cannons, instead of your typical DHC. I suspect the wider arc, in combination with scatter volley, actually doesn't hurt DPS either, what with many spheres grouped closely together and all.

    N.B. I find threads like this very useful. A rainbox build made by a noob is just that: a noob build. But one made by an expert, and flown successfully, is something one does well to study closely, and use as an opportunity to learn, and have it serve as a reminder to keep an open mind.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • seitei1seitei1 Member Posts: 131 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Skittles is one thing. Beams have more visual punch to them though. You don't see cannon blasts too well, you do see beams.
  • topsettopset Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Exactly. You lose 10 skill points per console. For the Andorian Escort the OP uses, he's basically losing ~6.8% of his total damage, which is DEFINITELY noticeable, but hardly crippling. As other posters point out, flying your ship smart and getting good time on target will have a far greater effect on your total damage output.

    I think your numbers are off. I've made plenty of Kumaris like this before with proper builds (non-rainbow, and dual-heavies) and the difference is +4-8k which is a lot more than 6.8%. I remember making this exact build but with disruptors and it was parsing around 13-15k. With plasmas it was more (obviously)


    meimeitoo wrote: »
    He's also cleverly using regular cannons, instead of your typical DHC. I suspect the wider arc, in combination with scatter volley, actually doesn't hurt DPS either, what with many spheres grouped closely together and all.

    N.B. I find threads like this very useful. A rainbox build made by a noob is just that: a noob build. But one made by an expert, and flown successfully, is something one does well to study closely, and use as an opportunity to learn, and have it serve as a reminder to keep an open mind.

    DCs don't have a wider arc than DHCs, and I can guarantee you the DPS is lower here than it would be if I'd used heavies (I checked). The reason I went for them was purely visual, nothing more.

    Thanks, that's what intended this thread to be - 1 part trolling exercise, 1 part learning experience.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Kirk's Protege.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Did the earlier build use CRF or CSV?
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • topsettopset Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Did the earlier build use CRF or CSV?

    CSV, I have never used rapid fire on this build (with skittles)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Kirk's Protege.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    topset wrote: »
    CSV, I have never used rapid fire on this build (with skittles)
    I meant the non-skittle build that you were comparing the DPS to.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • mustafatennickmustafatennick Member Posts: 868 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Sorry to bring an old thread back up but I've just purchased the Andorian ship

    I liked this build from when you started it not that I'd have the nuts to run a rainbow boat lol but I will be using the rest of the build

    All I wanted To ask is why Dual Cannons?

    Is it just for looks or am I missing a trick?
    ----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I think he used those for either the visuals or because they're cheaper.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    i love the part how the kinetic cutting beam was 12 percent of the dps and the top damage

    lol you never see that with anything else.
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