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Please, no more Rep grinds
lordcorrino
Member Posts: 163 Arc User
This last reputation grind for Nukara was a real beat down. I've never seen so much burnout among my fleetmates and I. And trying to get my new Romulan toon through all three at once was a real grind. In addition, the rewards from the Nukara grind were not really anything to write home about. Could we get a break from these rep grinds next season? Also, something needs to be done for alts. I'd like to roll a sixth toon but the rep grind is too much of a barrier.
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But I'm in the camp that says if you have an alt, and you want the same stuff as your "main", then you have to play the game the same way. If anything Cryptic has very little incentive to do otherwise because it gets you to play the game ... which is the point.
Except that my fleetmates are taking a break from the game, which defeats the purpose. I'm a lifer. I'm going to be playing anyways. I'd just rather do something different than 5x crystalline entities a day to complete the rep. Also, if you make it more alt friendly than people will play the game more by rolling more alts, and enjoying less grindy material.
However, I am curious, since there seem to be a lot of threads complaining about these "rep grinds," if you don't like it, then why do it? Sure, Omega rep offers some of the best gear in the game, but it is also by far the fastest to grind through. Romulan rep offer some decent alternatives to Omega rep & fleet gear, so if you don't mind chasing bunnies around for 2 minutes every day, or you really enjoy mine trap, you can go that route, but then you wouldn't even need to do Omega rep. As for Nukara, it's painfully slow and has very few decent rewards, so again, if you don't enjoy doing Nukara missions for their own sake, there really seems to be no point at all.
The only real reason I can see for doing all three on the same charater is to get the passives that you receive at each tier up to T4. (And the active ability at T5, I guess, but those all seem rather underwhelming.) And those only seem worth the bother if you PvP, which only a small fraction of players do.
So why are there so many people who seem to very much dislike the rep system, yet instead of avoiding it, will grind through it and take to the forums to complain?
But for a F2P game, getting people to spend time accomplishes what exactly? The first thing you want, more than anything, is for your players to have fun and want to keep coming back. I log in every day to deal with my grinding 3 reps on 3 characters, and while it keeps me occupied, every action I take is for specific purpose after cost/benefit analysis or because I'm a completionist. I don't remember the last time I did something just for fun, just grinding the same couple of missions and praying my pugmates comprehend things like trigger lines and 10% and general professionalism.
And if it isn't fun, just a chore, why would I spend money?
That's a bingo! I think making the game more alt-friendly would be a boon financially. After all, a lot of those expensive zen store ships are class specific. I have one fed (tac). I don't have any incentive to buy all those sci or eng ships unless it makes sense for me to roll another alt.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Um no, they're not.
Your Career choice brings 5 innate abilities and possibly 2 traits. It doesn't bring much to a ship, it's just part of the itemization. The majority of the itemization comes from the ship and non-Career related itemization from the character.
How is time wasted? Is it a race? Outside of limited time events, time can't be wasted unless the player wants to see that time as wasted. That's purely subjective though - and - there's no way Cryptic can accommodate all the potential wastes certain players may see.
My main was there from the beginning.
-Just today I unlocked Tier 5, Nukara.
In the meantime I also gathered enough marks to open the romulan 'store', and get the maco/thatothers*it-stuff.
Now, I'll be spending all my Nukara-marks on 'opening' that store. Not because I need anything, but, eyh, I need to put the marks somewhere.
(Call it a luxury problem)
Granted!... ...IF I were a newcommer, let's say in another year time coming.
I'd state blatantly in a censored western religiously way; J**** F***** C***** WTF are You S**** I*****, etc et al. ...etc.
The Whole thing is a great idea if you were in there from the beginning, but starting a new character, wether its your main or alt. -Nonononono.
The ones being there from the dawn of the game has spent Money, they had something to develop. We are no F2P. -That'll Work for a while, but if Cryptic continue to build this game as if there are only veterans following the evolution... Pfff. They'll ceratinly Loose their (potential) customerbase within a very short time.
Why is it an issue? Because the player makes it an issue. They feel they need it yesterday. For what? What do they need it yesterday for? Yeah, those players will have issues. If Cryptic were to give them everything yesterday, those players would likely complain about having nothing to do...
Honestly, information. Shareholders want to know their product is successful. STO seems to be exactly that because people are playing the game even with all these grinds. Just logging in helps Cryptic. It does not matter if you like grinding or not. You (not literally "you", just that ambiguous person), and a lot ... a lot ... of other people are grudgingly, drudgingly, trudging through these reps for what exactly? Nothing except digital code. Everything in the game is just that, code. Sure, the high-end gear makes playing the game "easier" and is a status symbol, but they are not needed to play the game at all.
This is your 'thing" and Cryptic can't control that. They make a platform for you to spend your time and you choose to spend it by their system. There is soooo much to do in the game besides these grinds.
Yep, I agree. If grinding is a chore, then why do it? Games are meant to be played for fun. I recommend doing something else here (or anywhere frankly) to find fun. If completing the grinding task is "fun", then (forgive the cliche) the ends justify the means. If the end gear is what is wanted, then again, the ends justify the means because that's the rules (Reputation-gate) to the game (STO). I'm not talking about money ... the only base cost to STO is time. That's all.
rep grinding is a necessary evil.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
and speaking of account wide, please make currency including lobi crystals and the gear from the dilithium store/fleet stores/missions all bind on account 100% across the board so we can finally and at long last have access everywhere to everything without switching all the time.
The 'old' ones are still here, and Building onto/into this game, this way it feels very backwards to make a 'reputationsystem' (like we have now.)
Backwards, in the sense that they/we that have been here all the time experienced the game being a 'beta' for so long, to suddenly Prosper, then suddenly have a proper standstill/close to dying for a year, then being revived, just to push any living persons short-timed goals being pushed to beyond two(3) years (-Only reachable if being an unemployed pensionist and on social security of some sort). (-sorry for lack of proper rpunctuation.)
-Seriously that product is just not 'fun' anymore. (I.e. Starfleet Projects)
Imagine, You save up for a car, Then your 'friend' you've never seen, 'borrows' it, then keeps it. ...All he's got to say is; "You weren't there..."
You do know what happens in certain regulated/unregulated societies when that scenario happens? -There's usually gunfire and sirens. -Now, Why the he** would we want that scenario in a simple computergame? -Just saying...
Why China, you can just got to California and tell them.
LoR - [System] Willard the Rat has been on active duty for 11 days, 1 hour, 5 minutes, 36 seconds.
S7 - [System] Prophet has been on active duty for 19 days, 6 hours, 50 minutes, 55 seconds.
3rd Anni - [System] Geist has been on active duty for 6 days, 3 hours, 37 minutes, 18 seconds
S7 - [System] Tselina has been on active duty for 5 days, 13 hours, 51 minutes, 22 seconds.
After 3rd - [System] Notus has been on active duty for 3 days, 16 hours, 3 minutes, 35 seconds.
S7 - [System] Plague has been on active duty for 23 days, 1 hour, 10 minutes, 12 seconds.
S7 - [System] Zark has been on active duty for 10 days, 19 hours, 10 minutes, 2 seconds.
3rd Anni - [System] Saraquael has been on active duty for 5 days, 22 hours, 21 minutes, 30 seconds.
After 3rd - [System] Boreas has been on active duty for 5 days, 9 hours, 20 minutes, 57 seconds.
New Rom (T0)
Geist
Notus
New Rom (T1)
Saraquael
Boreas
New Rom (T2)
Tselina
New Rom (T3)
Zark
New Rom (T4)
Willard the Rat
New Rom (T5)
Prophet
Plague
Omega (T0)
Geist
Notus
Omega (T1)
Saraquael
Boreas
Omega (T2)
Tselina
Omega (T3)
Zark
Omega (T4)
Willard the Rat
Omega (T5)
Prophet
Plague
Nukara (T0)
Geist
Tselina
Zark
Saraquael
Notus
Boreas
Nukara (T1)
Nukara (T2)
Plague
Nukara (T3)
Prophet
Nukara (T4)
Willard the Rat
Nukara (T5)
There's been more than enough time that all nine toons could be 3x T5; but not a single toon is 3x T5. They're just something to do - outside of PvP they're not needed in the least - and I just don't PvP as much as I used to PvP.
There's no, "OMFG, I need this now or I'm useless!" TRIBBLE going on like some players make it out to be...seriously, WTF?
I mean, c'mon - it's like the gear. You're running STFs to get gear to run what? You've already done the content without the STF gear and there's no new content. It's just stuff to have if you want it, not something you need.
Oh noes, it might take me a month or so (real time, not played time) to 3x T5 and finish gearing an alt...oh noes! Yeah? So what? It's an MMO...aren't you looking at playing it over an extended period of time? If you're looking for a game to bash out in a weekend, there are plenty of $50-60 games available for consoles to do that...
I agree. I don't mind a compromise though... ...Make the reps Accountwide!
I would like to see each enemy of a type give one mark per unit killed or add rep marks to the loot table at the very least for each enemy type.
example borg in cure usually ends up being 60 borg that needs to be killed to complete that mission. so 1 per borg would be 60 marks and what's the reward now for doing completing it. about that. in sector red alerts if you do the sane thing and only go after the 2 cube together instead of all the spheres and one cube that's 8 then the unimatrix and assorted regen spheres and probes and that mission gives 12 marks. again pretty close to the one per unit count. so why in any other mission do the borg give no marks?
if they would add just 1 mark per enemy type period no matter the mission, id be ok if they even doubled the amount of rep marks it took per project.
and I think if thois was done the whole account wide argument could be throw out, as I do not think these reps should apply account wide. it don't make sences that it would really since each is treated as its own. many items in the zen store are account wide and many are single unlocks I think the rep system falls into the same range of thught as the single unlock items rather than the account wide items. and I don't think that just because a person worked it on one toon completely it should give any and all toon they make in the future or now have advance any faster in the system. and I have 12 toons 1 is done with it and 2 are working almost done. the others im not going to do for now atleast.
If a player is gone for a week and can only slot one 20 hour project, that's a bunch of days wasted in getting to T5 efficiently. Is there something wrong with players wanting to use their time efficiently if they so wish?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Unless it is a limited time event, where the time has been lost/wasted out of a limited amount of time - then no time has been lost nor wasted. Why is there that sense of urgency? Why is there that rush? How does efficiency come into play outside of a limited period of time?
That's about wants - that's about subjective views of what is or isn't efficient...that's a player problem.
I do believe an essential part of a good game, is to have a personal feeling that you can reach this goal.
Imo, STO breaks that 'feeling' Down to a pretty blatant level of mathematics 101... I.e: I have to do X shi* 1500 times, without interruption to get Y=1 item in about 1 year IF according to plan, ELSE GOTO 10. -See what I did there?
If you choose to look at it that way, that is the way it will appear. Changing any of the variables will not change that it is some sort of formulaic approach to it. And again, that's going to be a personal goal to do X in Y amount of time...
...that's far different than say the limited time events.
Before the various changes/extensions, look at the Risian Corvette (I'm not going to lowercase it!)...
35 days to do 25 runs with a 20 hour CD on each run where you earn 40 Pearl and need 1000. Each run consists of 3 courses. That's 75 courses that need to be done over that 35 day period per toon. So yep, for my 9 guys I had to run 675 courses during that period of time. There was time to do 126 courses per toon with the 35 days - 1134 courses with 9 guys. Each set of 3 courses takes about 5 minutes (including switching toons, getting the mission, turning in the mission). That's 125 minutes required per toon or 1125 minutes required for 9 toons. Had I run it all 42 possible times with 9 guys, it would have taken 1890 minutes...31.5 hours.
That was a limited time event.
The Reputation? It will get done when it gets done. If I want to set a goal for something, that's on me - I'll have to deal with the consequences of how I feel about that and if I feel that it is too grindy. Perhaps I need to be realistic and reevaluate what my goals are...
...because again, imagine if it were account wide and did not take as long as it did. What exactly would you be doing with your game time? What would you log in to the game to do?
Talk to my fleetmates. Run STFs with my fleet. Grind dilithium for a new ship. Roll a new toon. PVP. I'm not against grind totally. I like the fleet starbase system. I like the doff system. Reputation has been the least fun of all the grinds in STO. I think it would improve the game to move away from that and towards the content that is more fun and rewarding.
I guess you're saying that the time-limited events are supposed to be a challenge. No?
I guess we agree, then. -That there is absolutely nothing wrong with time-limited events. fair enough. Now, then... ...reputations. At one point in time, these items (Omega/STF) were pretty random, and it was mighty unpopular. Eventhough, with an obscene sort of luck, You could get your MkXII stuff 'quickly'. All you needed were luck. There is no such thing anymore. A newbie can NEVER get any cool item anymore 'just like that'. He/She's got to grind (although quickly) to Lvl 50, then start grinding for 3 different (maybe more soon) reps, for weeeeeks, to be eligible for a mere MkXII, that feels like a Waste of time, because it wasn't really that item the person wanted.
As I say. I was Lucky. I was there from the start. I didn't have to experience it as an ordeal.
If you'd ask me if i'd do the same on an alt... ...h*** no. i am no sadomachocistic being. -Not computer(game)wise at least.
That's the thing though, I purposefully rerolled four guys just before S7 - meaning that I lost the gear they had - lost the conversion boxes they had...and started from scratch to experience that grind. Two of the guys are still not as geared as they were before that reroll.
And still I added two more toons just before the 3rd Anniversary. And still I added two more toons after the 3rd Anniversary. And still I rolled a Reman with LoR. And I'll likely add two more toons before the 4th Anniversary. And if they add the Cardassians, I'll add a Cardassian. And if they add the Liberated Borg, I'll add a Liberated Borg. Etc, etc, etc.
I've experienced both the 50 in a weekend and Mk XI/MK XII by the next weekend as well as the it ain't done yet...
I don't see it as masochistic in the least. I'm basically doing the same thing that I'd be doing anyway - only I'm getting additional rewards for doing it.
fair enough, I'll just archive it under OCD, then.