test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Tacs are only for hit and run. Eng is for DPS.
praxi5
Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
http://i.imgur.com/VEm6osg.jpg
There you have it, folks.
Engineers are King because they can keep up with Tac damage and do more! Tacs are only for spike kills and hit and run tactics. Engineers will do more damage than a Tac.
Guess we've been wrong this whole time, Engineers are the useful ones, Tacs are just for specialized vape runs! :rolleyes:
There you have it, folks.
Engineers are King because they can keep up with Tac damage and do more! Tacs are only for spike kills and hit and run tactics. Engineers will do more damage than a Tac.
Guess we've been wrong this whole time, Engineers are the useful ones, Tacs are just for specialized vape runs! :rolleyes:
Post edited by praxi5 on
0
Comments
Old news there. The thing is however that the longer it takes to dispose of an opponent, the greater the odds for them to heal and escape.
This is why in PVP burst damage is so important.
Engineers can tank, but in general the offensive capabilities are more potent than the defensive capabilities. Engineers can't throw out burst damage if their lives depend on it.
Science can tank and disable, but what good is that if you have difficulty finishing off the opponent.
Tactical is still potent in both PVE?PVP because they can do burst damage.
Eng lack the spike/burst damage required for the kill in any gaps that are created or present themselves.
Tac does the most Sustained DPS... sorry to break it to you engi lovers.
Survivability is 90% gear these days... so really Tac survives at least 90% as well as an engi... about the only thing the engi can do better is share heals.
Sci single target Kill ratio is going to out spike a tac... no the yellow numbers rising of the corpse won't be as high... but an engi spike build with a sensor scan and nuke up is almost assured a kill unless they do something stupid or there opponent does something amazing.
The only reason sci doesn't own tac all the time... is because the cool downs are longer, and Sub nuke can only be used on one target at a time.
Still cute to see People claiming there engis can hang DPS wise in PvE with a tac.... not sure who they are playing with... but I think they may be a bit delusional.
^^ Everything he said.
With Elite Fleet Shields + Rep passives, a Tac can survive just as well as an Engineer... essentially leaving a Tac to do everything can Engineer can (except MW), but better.
In slower cruisers an Eng may be able to overcap Weapons power better while still maintaining defensive capabilities that a Tac couldn't. I haven't crunched the numbers, but an Eng making use of Aux2batt/EptW3/Faw/Dem/other boff powers along w/Rommy cruisers/Boffs/BattleCloak may well be able to maintain very high levels of sustained dps levels in PvE w/APB and Plasma/Disrupter weapons. Keep in mind the -40 power is easier to overcome w/Eng.
For carriers, I'd still see and Eng being a better option than Tac and again depending on the boat can sustain decent hull damage (the only damage counted in game unless something changed recently) even before recent pet boosts (there's nice debuffing pets to be spammed as well).
In both PvE and PvP the Eng wouldn't need to withdraw as often.
For sustained damage based on bypassing shields/support cruiser/carrier I'd take an Eng as a PuGmate rather than a slow boating Tac in PvP.
Tac is still best for best raw bursting damage.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Everything you said a Tac can do, and do it better thanks to having more damage. And in the end, damage is key. PvE or PvP, it's just a damage race.
Sure, an Eng can overcome the -40 easier... but with Aux to Batt and Leech, the Engineer's +Power isn't nearly as important as Alpha.
still think the 140 power effect cap, 150 with particular warp cores, for eng ONLY is the way to go. highest weapon power for higher then current possible pressure weapon damage. the eng could not spike well, you need APA, etc... for that, but the tac with less of an energy damage power multiplier could not sustain as well, but have peeks and valleys in their damage. those peeks will still be the spike needed to kill everything, but eng captains just wont suck quite as bad as they do now at dealing damage. mighest aux power for sci skills is finnaly a sci ship synergy eng captains have never had, they would also be even beter for aux based healing. synergy and healing duty. with so much energy put in 1 thing or the other, the eng would have to min max quite a bit, even with all the energy buffs and skills there are now. he wont be caped out at everything at once, at least not for more then a few seconds
To be fair, I tried to mention both as well as allude to the Rommy Boffs.
I'm still not convinced an Eng wouldn't be able to to maintain a longer capability of sustaining high bleedthrough/hull dps in the slower Rommy Cruiser spamming quick cloak-decloak cycles w/aux2batt and powers I mentioned earlier. 15 seconds ambush bonus is 3x longer than normal w/high crit chance and plasma/apb/dem/disruptor procs fawed around w/eptw3.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Given AtB, DEM (Marion), Omega Weapon Amplifier...it would be a curious thing to look at how well each could maintain the buffer for the FAW drain while keeping Shield & Engine above 75...and Aux above 75 as much as possible while running AMP.
Obviously the Tac is going to maintain the burst, but for sustained during an extended period - would the Eng surpass the Tac? I can see where it might be theoretically possible, but the PvE content doesn't last long enough for that to happen and if folks want to fly around forever in PvP without killing each other - well, they could just go to Risa and get their groove on....
On the other hand my tacs can saw ships in half with just one strafing run.
Win fast or lose slowly
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Borg 2 pc set bonus or the DEM Doff (Marion) will give you the power drain resistance you're looking for there. There's also a Romulan 2 pc set bonus that will do the same, but you're a Fed, so... :P
But the point I'm trying to make is that the Eng appears to be the better damage option due to it's resisting power drain. A Tac can now do that and be the better choice for damage thanks to the damage buffs.
All things being equal if you take the captain specific powers out of the mix, and use same ship, same equipment, same skills, same doffs, same boffs. Then be they tac, sci, or eng, their damage will be the same.
The big variable is the captian specific abilities that affect damage, of which Sci has sensor scan, engineering has naidion, and tac has fire on my mark, tac fleet, go down fighting ( if he gets banged up enough )
with the right doffs, like Marion, and set bonus you can mitigate weapon drain, Marion for 8 secs if you have the right boff power, on demand.
So between captain cool down all things can be equal, but when it comes time to pop everything and pour it on tacs can ramp up their damage much higher, and generally not kill their weapon power doing it. Were as the engineer can just not kill their weapon power for 30 sec, and Sci can sensor scan someone's, multiple if their close enough, res into the dirt.
So can a engineer sustain more pressure, sure, for 30 secs, in those 30 secs they can go hog wild with weapon energy drain abilities and just not care, not worry about if something's going to proc. And that's if the other captains don't get a good streak on their own power drain res abilities. the question becomes if that 30 secs beats out the the shear level of damage the tacs spike will throw out.
Most target don't require any sort of pressure or sustained attack though, even a tac cube and a gate can go away in under 15 secs, and in pvp well, most targets arnt going to let you pressure them anyways, they will leave and come back when their spikes ready again.
and torp heavy builds can remove nadion mostly from the equation, since they don't drain weapon power anyways.
http://s18.postimg.org/bkqpc3zax/basic_axe.png
A rotating saw should count as sustained dps and since the origin of the dmg are spikes...
sustained spike dps!
Ok, thats all I had to say.
Carry on.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
It's not that simple, forcing a ship to withdraw or even turn can lower its dps output and even cost that ship an alpha cycle. An Eng could have more and better time on target w/it its "tanking" skills where it doesn't have to adjust (ie pilot defensively and/or stop buffing alpha abilities in lieu of defensive abilities) as often. How effective that sustained dps is is another matter. Some Eng captain abilities help it clear some debuffs as well.
I know i take less damage staying on a high dps target than leaving it be to set up runs as it pleases.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
An interesting experiment, put all 3 captains in a shuttle and go fight something. Engi will do the best because of its survivability coupled with the ability to crank up weapon damage with power controls. Sci is second, with the ability to mitigate damage (but not repair it). Tac spends all its time licking wounds in the corner. That is an extreme scenario of course, a single captain instead of a team, but its illustrative.
It is kind of funny, thinking about it. It's like the Cruiser/Escort issue - each time they try to add something to "help" out Cruisers, it helps out Escorts as well. So yeah, perhaps they "nerf" GDF and add in the Manifold...but with other things they did, eh?
I mean, I was looking at this hypothetical PvE build...having the Manifold trait, Nadion and EPS - well, the gap that they might cover for an Eng compared to the Tac using APA, TFleet, FOMM...well, that gap's not really there. Power's just...too easy. Which is a trip considering what they did to the Eng consoles saying that power was too easy - yeah, have they looked recently? LMFAO...
Fleet Assault Refit w/ Alien Captain
Traits - Accurate, Astrophysicist, Efficient, Elusive, Helmsman, Techie, Warp Theorist
(Crippling Fire, Last Ditch Effort)
(EPS Manifold Efficiency, Grace Under Fire)
Reputation
New Rom - Precision, Emergency Secondary Shielding, Quantum Singularity Manipulation
Nukara - Enhanced Shield Penetration, Aux Power Configuration - Offense, Refracting Tetryon Cascade
Omega - Omega Weapon Training, Superior Shield Repair
TS1, FAW2, APB2 (Rom Op)
TT1 (Rom Op)
EPtS1, AtB1, EPtW3, DEM3 (Rom Sub)
ET1, AtB1 (Rom Sub)
TSS1, HE2 (Rom Sub)
DOFFs - 3x Tech(AtB), 1x SE(DEM), 1x Quartermaster(Batt)
Deflector - Omega Mk XII
Impulse - MACO Mk XII
Core - Elite Fleet Reinforced Warp Core Mk XII [SEP][W->S][SCap][AMP][SST]
Shields - MACO Mk XII
Weapons
Fore - KCB, Rom Experimental Beam Array, 2x Rom Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [CrtH]x2
Aft - Hyper-Plasma Torp, 3x Rom Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [CrtH]x2
Consoles
Tac - 4x Plasma Infuser Mk XII
Eng - E-Neut Mk XII [+HullRep], Borg, Nukara, Tachyo
Sci - Rom Emitter Array Mk XII [Pla][+/-Th], 0Point
Devices - RMC, SFM, Aux Batt, Eng Batt
Totally nerfed cause everyone can run EptW, Aux2 bat builds, all can consistently overcap now with beams to like 175+
Well, engi fleet has always been awesome hasnt it.
Anyone stillrunnin engi? haha
So anyway, if you do, you pretty much run with no effective captain ablities or barely, and with miracle worker perhaps as a cold comfort
IKR?
But, ssshhhhhhh..... please don't tell any of my tacs they are doing it wrong by staying in the fight. It would break their hearts.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Elite Warp Cores and their nifty 3.3(?)% damage boost per subsystem over 100. Thanks to the always on +40 power from the manifold trait I know my engi captains will never struggle keeping all 4 systems over 100 but I'm not so sure my other toons will. Depending on what type of bonus this is, does it act like the EPtW damage bonus even boosting a gravity well or does it act like a tactical console and thanks to how the math works make it kinda weak sauce?
Time will tell.... oh and I have no clue how anyone gets to use GDF in PvE anymore aside from purposely eating HY torps or ship explosions. I've seriously considered taking it off my toolbar.
"Resisting Power Drain"
NI is only up every 3 minutes. That's a huge amount of time.
In the current game, you should be on at the very least a 90s kill cycle (lets call this an alpha cycle) with the potential for a beta cycle halfway to the next alpha cycle.
Sure if "when they need" means "once every 3 minutes for the duration of NI".
Let's assume it's a flat 3.3% like EPTW.
Let's assume an Eng can manage 4 systems at 100+ (although I was pretty sure it was 75+ and not 100+, but I'd need to check).
Right now in game I can realistically manage 2 systems "above 100" with weapons capped at 125 and shields at 130 on my Fed. With some tweaking and management for when it counts I'm confident I could hit 3 subsystems at 100+ when needed.
That gives the Engineer a 1 subsystem advantage, or 3.3%.
It's going to be good for all of the stubborn players who are convinced that Engineers are damage dealers and refuse to make an actual Tac captain for whatever reason.
The only bright spot in that for an Eng, is that there are times a Tac captain can score kills without the use of APA through stacking other sources of damage. So if a Tac can do this, so can an Eng.
It will never be the WTF Just happened BBQ that a Tac will score on a decloak alpha strike, but that is on purpose and as designed.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
that pve right? so if you play a fleet patrol mission you will always win the first place and get purple stuffs (not that they worth much anyway since all good stuffs are in fleets).If you dont have those ships you wont be able to set up the ship for that much damage so you wont get first place.
maybe this game is or not pay/grind to win ,but for sure they like to f.... with people's time.You grind or pay and in 2 months all your stuffs are useless.
PvE is great comparament since the statics are identical in every aspect, it shows how beams are capable of dealing 5k ish more dps even if it is shared to multiple opponents, if we think this in pvp, we can surely say that if we have 5 escorts vs 5 cruisers, in a testing enviroment against another balanced team, you can split the bfaw damage and multiply it by 5, which is STILL more damage on single target than escort team would be, the difference is that 5 escorts after 1 guy... is pressure damage, but yeah you have your team extending and tacteaming that 1 guy into maxium resistances when you need to heal everybody versus the cruisers.
5 man a2b cruiser team ftw.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Tac is for spike, tac is for dps :P