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Klingon Cruisers
theredviola2003
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Very possibly a stupid question, but how many KDF players use cruisers? I played Fed mainly and want to change things up big time. I did tac and sci as Fed already, so I'm going for a change of scenery as well as game play. But, I rarely see KDF players, and of those players I see, I don't see a whole lot of cruisers. Can I assume it's because tac vessels are "better" and the game is currently STO: Escorts? Or am I just not seeing them?
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I've seen quite a lot KDF players using cruisers, in fact I'm going to go the extra mile and say that the percentage of KDF players playing cruisers is bigger than the percentage of Fed. players using cruisers, but it's hard to notice due to the greater population on the blue side. Our battlecruiser line is very powerfull and fun to use. People usually like the KDF battlecruisers better that the Starfleet cruisers, due to them being far more manuverable, ability to use DHC and keep them on target and being generally more tactically oriented.
Personally, I play cruisers almost religiously. I enjoy my Bortasqu' way too much.
Besides my favourite one, there are some very nice, fun and usefull cruisers in the KDF line - the Tor'kaht, the K'maj, the Fleet K'tinga and Corsair. We're expecting a nice new Negh'var later this year.
So, I'd say that the cruisers are popular amongst the KDF, you just don't see it cause we're usually cloaked. :cool: :P
^ This.
I run a Klingon Tac in a Mirror Universe Vor'cha and I have spent more time with this toon and ship than any of the other toons I have.
A big disadvantage the KDF in general has is the lack of 5 tac console ships compared to the Federation and the Romulans (which, when you think about it, doesn't make sense). The only one we have is the Bortas'qu, which is a floating brick. We have no 5 tac console raptors, BoPs, or 'light battlecruisers' like the Tor'kaht, while the Federation and Romulans have multiple options for these. We also have no 5 fore-weapon ships.
We make do without these for the most part, but it basically serves to keep the KDF behind the curve compared to the Federation (as usual) and the Romulans (who are brand friggin new and are ahead of us already in certain respects).
I would say that Battlecruisers work equally well with Tac and Eng Captains. I'd recommend Tac though, because they really don't need the extra tankiness Eng brings.
~Karona@Sobekeus
Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier Exterminatus
What chainfall said. I'd recommend a Tactical officer, so that you can make the most out of your tactical options by adding Attack Pattern Alpha in there, as well as Fire on my Mark, etc.
Eng might be useful on the Fleet Tor'kaht, because it runs kinda light on the defensive options because it's a very tac-heavy battlecruiser (which is what makes it so awesome). All the other KDF battlecruisers have strong engineering and science slot layouts, allowing for more self-healing and tanking, and some outgoing healing options.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My Mirror Vor'cha build. I use this for combat, Doffing, and roleplay it as an Orion-only crew. It combines survivability with decent DPS and even some crowd control. I use A2B with 3 technicians to shorten cooldowns and keep my weapon, shield, and engine powerlevels maxed.
Eventually I'm putting him into a Fleet Negh'var for even more survivability with only a slightly lower turnrate.
I use Tacs in all my cruisers. Using an engineer is kinda' redundant, but if you don't care about the sheer speed by which you destroy things and care more about survivability, both can work just fine.
1. Cannons are doable, but you can go beams if you want still.
2. They handle wonderfully.
3. Cloaks.
The regular Negh'Var and Vor'Cha Retrofits have carried KDF Cruiser play for so, so long until the advent of the fleet ships. When those came about, Battlecruiser selection opened up more. K'T'Inga, Fleet Tor'khat/Vor'Cha, Fleet Negh'Var, etc.
And then there's the Orion designed Corsair and Marauder Flight Deck Cruisers at T5 that play very differently from the Battlecruisers.
While KDF Escorts and BOPs have been eclipsed in power, KDF Cruisers / Battlecruisers are still a strongpoint to the faction. KDF Carriers still are the best in the game, and one does not have to break their backs and bank account to access them, as well as their great selection of hangar units.
Simply put: If you like Cruiser and Carrier play, the KDF is still, IMHO, the best place in the game for it.
Agreed, battlecruisers are one of the KDF's remaining true strengths, even with the advent of the Romulans. We also have managed to retain an edge in carriers, though it has been greatly diminished from what it used to be (thanks, Cryptic!).
If you can make battlecruisers work for you, then it is highly recommended that you use them. They're the best the KDF has to offer, aside from the BoPs and their flexibility (which are becoming obsolete in their current form, but are still somewhat useful).
However, for the sake of completeness:
Polaron, Tetryon, and Plasma all have set bonuses to increase their damage beyond your matching Tactical consoles. Polaron you get from the Cardassian story missions, Plasma and Tetryon come from Romulan and Nukara Reputation.
Plasma has special Science Consoles in the Embassy Fleet holding to boost them even more.
Phaser and Disruptor are fine weapon types, but there are a lot of...exotic...weapons about that have Phaser and Disruptor secondary effects whilst being a different weapon type. Then again, there's about as many that have other weapon's secondary effects whilst being Disruptors. Observe here:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Space_weapons
I use the Tactical Bortasqu' on one of my KDF and the Chel'Gret on another. Both vessels are Monsters and devastating to my foes and I have no complaints.
So far I have several ships to choose from.
Negh'Var
Breen
Kumarag
K'Tinga Retrofit
Soon to be added Vor'cha
Later in the future - JHDC or JHEC.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The issue with BoPs is that they're often outperformed by more escort-role ships when it comes to pure DPS. Those ships are somewhat tankier and (in the case of the Fleet Norgh, B'Rel retro/Fleet B'Rel retro, and the Hegh'ta) have more potential for raw DPS output due to higher amounts of tactical consoles. In PvE, that's what makes the biggest difference. Cloaks are usually an afterthought in PvE. . .there's no particular advantage to surprise-attacking a PvE opponent, other than maybe ensuring you can get within 2km of the enemy before unleashing a punishing full-buffed barrage.
As for the BoP in PvP. . .since the release of LoR, the BoP has essentially lost what edge it might have had over its opponents. FedRoms now possess battlecloaking ships that are basically better than the KDF BoP. Not only has the battlecloaking edge been watered down by widespread availability, but the universal boffstation layout is not as unique as it used to be. . .lots of ships out there with 1-2 universal boffstations allowing for decent flexibility combined with normal stats. The KDF BoP fills a role still, but it's definitely falling behind the times and needs a buff somewhere to keep it relevant.
As for the raptors. . .the Qin has a borked turnrate that affects its capabilities even in PvE (to say nothing of PvP), and the Somraw. . .well, it has its uses but it's still limited by its lack of universal boffslots, fixing it in a particular type of build. In all honesty, the Fleet Scourge is the better escort, for both PvE and PvP. A nice, tough KDF equivalent to the Fleet Patrol Escort, and slightly more maneuverable to boot.
When I use my Cruiser or Carrier, and I see a bunch of BOPs, I can't help but feel that I will be left high and dry, alone against the entire Fed team. When the heat gets too much in the fight, the BOP users must:
1. Stay in the fight and get blown up very quickly and easily.
or
2. Escape very, very quickly and put alot of distance so one can recover. This can take a VERY long time if not using a B'Rel.
And during this time, my Cruiser / Carrier is getting beaten to a pulp since I or maybe 1 other Cruiser / Carrier is dealing with the entire Fed team.
The BOPs at this stage of the game are simply outclassed in everything but complete Universal BOFF Stations. There are Escorts that approach the speed and maneuverability of the BOP, but do not suffer the low hull and shield mods of a BOP. Everybody and their grandmother and cousin's, brother's, former roommate has Battlecloaks with very, very, VERY short cooldown times and actually having increased defense on hitting the Cloak button. And these same Escorts have the maneuverability, TAC consoles, TAC BOFF stations, staying power, Battlecloaks, AND Universal BOFF stations with no penalty whatsoever. Again, the BOPs are outclassed in every conceivable, meaningful way.
The only ones that make them shine are the "Aces" in the KDF with these ships... the ones that still insist on the Hegh'ta or whatnot.
The "Raptor" line was left behind long, long, LONG ago. They just can't compete and they handle horribly.
Destroyers? The Guramba is still half decent, but with the advent of the Fleet ship/starbase system, they were outclassed by the high-octane Fed Escorts and lockbox ships. The only other KDF-specific Escort that still is good is the Fleet Scourge.
So, if sticking to KDF ships, the line of ships that were to be the backbone of firepower and surprise attacks, Raptors and BOPs, are outclassed. The KDF has been relying on Battlecruisers and Carriers when it comes to KDF ships. Otherwise, if you want a good escort, you have to grab a lockbox ship or the Fleet Scourge.
its better than my fed Cruisers by far , Really fun to play and i have no desire to change it to any other ship
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I'm not saying it's 'bad'. I'm saying it's 'limited'. It doesn't have any universal bridge officer stations, so it's essentially fixed into one particular range of setups. It doesn't have any flexibility. Combine this with the fact that we only have two viable escort-level ships at Fleet level (the Qin is both borked in turnrate AND has that inefficient 3 tac boffstation layout), and I think you can see what I'm talking about. The Somraw can only do so much. Neither the Somraw or the Scourge have universal boff stations, so they're both limited to specific ranges of layouts (this used to be traditional in STO, before they started giving away universal boffstations to every damn ship being released).
Compare this to, say, the Federation. . .who have 6 Fleet escort options (5 of which I would say are viable, the Fleet Aquarius isn't that great), including the Fleet Patrol Escort with its universal ensign allowing some flexibility. They have a choice of ships by which they can cover pretty much any build that could be applied to an escort-level ship.
If the KDF had 2 more viable ships of similar limitations covering the options that the Somraw and Scourge don't cover, that would definitely help shore up the KDF's raptors and destroyers.
I think a Battle Cloaking Raptor (3/3/4) and a different 5 Tac Console Raptor (3/2/5), both with a standard layout and Universal Ensign would effectively give everyone a Raptor they want.
Of course nobody would fly the Qin or Somraw over these ones. But the Feds get the FTER (Fleet Defiant) which can cloak and has 5 consoles.
As for Cruiser I can say confidently that we have the Best Cruisers in the game. They are just good with Beams or Cannons and you can find a BOFF layout to suit you.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
The issue with the Qin is that the pivot essentially relegates it to PvE. It gets torn to pieces in PvP because it can't keep up with other escorts, and so gets outmaneuvered. It's like having cruiser turning capabilities but without the cruiser staying power to compensate.
It's a well-known issue that starts with the free Qin. Why the hell Cryptic decided it was a good idea to carry the obvious, well-known, and crippling flaw over to the Fleet version is beyond me. Just ensures that nobody buys it, giving them more pathetic excuses to not make additional KDF ships available.
I think the Somraw suffers from a 'partial' version of the same issue (i.e., the turnrate isn't as badly borked), though I haven't talked with any owners of the ship to confirm it.
I used to use the Qin in PVP but I had organised groups not PuGs so I had support, the Alpha strike usually took out one guy.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
It's purely PvE though, I occsionally try to stay alive in Ker'rat but most of the time I'm not even scratching other players' shields. The Vor'Cha survives significantly longer than the Qin but I'm not dedicated enough to compete in PvP.
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