You're looking for solutions to symptoms of a larger issue. While maybe bandaids like a Dismiss Ripcord would be workable, they don't address the cause. That cause being inconsistent or faulty AI.
The scenario you describe is exactly what the new Recall functionality is designed for. If allowed to Dock during that interval between mopping up the probes and moving to the Cube, they will regenerate their HPs and instantly relaunch when you order them to Attack the Cube.
This relaunch is currently bugged, so you'll have to take my word for it until it's functional
As for moving existing pets to subsequent maps, I'm afraid that's beyond our capabilites for now. Your Hangar Pets are technically no more "real" than the Turrets you summon on ground maps - they are temporary effects, created and attached to you by the power system, and such effects cannot easily be transferred between servers. It may be possible, but I honestly can't even conceive of a method to make it happen at this time.
This is what the devs have posted IN THIS THREAD about the issues pertaining to the new Carrier Command Interface
This is nothing about the UI per se, but about the "ranks". I already mused in another thread about it:
Why do we "need" ranks. Can't we just make do without them? I don't see the benefit or why we should be having them at all.
The entire point of the Rank system for the pets is to make it where the pets get a bit more dangerous the longer that they are able to stay alive and fighting. This means having the Carrier players actually USE the recall option occasionally to heal their pets, or otherwise basically not regarding the pets as cannon fodder or one-shot weapons.
Additional comment:
The rank-up system does seem meaningless if the ranks are lost upon changing maps. If a player is in a mission involving multiple space engagements on different maps then the ranked-up fighters are continuously lost. If a player is doing multiple STFs or FAs during a gameplay period, then the fighter rank-up is constantly being repeated and has no real benefit from one STF/FA to next.
A better rank up would be a Carrier Fighter Control abilitiy/modifier that when ranking up gives the crafts better accuracy, survivability, repair ability that is on the ship (Flight Ops on the carrier). This modifier would last for 24-hours and can be increased or decreased by how well the player manages the fighters. Upon making 5-star, the Fighter Group would gain some kind of special bonus that will last a set period of time. Right now, the rank up is just a novelty that has no real impact on gameplay.
The biggest problem with "keeping Veterency" is that the pets are instanced. They only exist within the map that they are spawned in. This is the same way that Engineering turrets and generators are treated, as well as Medics and Security Teams.
Since I can tell many people are NOT reading the entire thread before posting, I will re-quote my own suggestion for fixing the "Verterency Retention" problem
Borticus, I again stress that the pet's initial rank should be tied to its quality:
Commons - Rank 0 (These are the pets provided with the ship)
Uncommon - Rank 1
Rares - Rank 2
Very Rares - Rank 3 (Most Dilithium Pets)
Elite / Ultra Rare - Rank 4 (Fleet Elites and the T5 Rep pets)
With this system, it is an even greater reason to invest in the more expensive pets. Also, increasing their initial rank when launched makes logical sense, as these pets are supposed to be much better than their lower quality versions.
There are no common pets, and I don't think there are uncommon pets either anymore. I think goes basic is rare which either come on your ship or you get from the ship vendor, very rare, which come from the Dilithium store, or Ultra Rare which come from Tier 5 science fleets and for some pets the reputation system.
Just tossing an idea out here, but what about a ship console that shortens your pet cds and the time it takes to rank up, call it a Flight Simulator Console. Makes it universal.
This way if you want to boost your pets you have to sacrifice something.
Maybe in time have more advanced verisons like Fleet Flight Simulator Consoles and give a minor extra boost of some sort to your pets.
No more consoles please. On 9 console ships like the Kar'fi and Atrox it's a smack in the face making the already behind the curve fleet-less ships worse off. Even on 10 console ships there's already a juggling act between universals, Embassy consoles, Dil Mine consoles (even if they are 1 with half of another) and standard consoles.
There are DOffs that reduce cooldown times, I'm guessing that those still work. Adding abilities with rank up to those or newer Flight Deck officers with the capability could be worthwhile, as all captains have 5 DOff slots at least, and have to give up other active roster DOffs for those benefits.
No more consoles please. On 9 console ships like the Kar'fi and Atrox it's a smack in the face making the already behind the curve fleet-less ships worse off. Even on 10 console ships there's already a juggling act between universals, Embassy consoles, Dil Mine consoles (even if they are 1 with half of another) and standard consoles.
There are DOffs that reduce cooldown times, I'm guessing that those still work. Adding abilities with rank up to those or newer Flight Deck officers with the capability could be worthwhile, as all captains have 5 DOff slots at least, and have to give up other active roster DOffs for those benefits.
You whine about consoles like people whine about Active Doffs.
"I don't want to have to give this up!!! Make more room...."
Short story is, if you WANT the powers from the consoles, you need to figure out how to fit them into your build. Same thing with the Doffs.
Personally, I'd like to have 3 Flight Deck Doffs reducing my launch times AND 3 improving attack accuracy, with 3 Technicians reducing cooldowns on my powers.
Unfortunately, I can't get that, so I juggle Doffs to find the point where I get a good break-even between abilities. I fly an Atrox, so I know about the console slots too. Believe me, you can run a very deadly combo on that boat with just the console slots it has.
Short story: Don't whine about a possible solution to a problem unless you can come up with a better solution.
Creating more Doffs and/or increasing the number of powers available is no different from suggesting consoles. Players are STILL juggling parts trying to find a mix that they can live with.
You whine about consoles like people whine about Active Doffs.
"I don't want to have to give this up!!! Make more room...."
Short story is, if you WANT the powers from the consoles, you need to figure out how to fit them into your build. Same thing with the Doffs.
Personally, I'd like to have 3 Flight Deck Doffs reducing my launch times AND 3 improving attack accuracy, with 3 Technicians reducing cooldowns on my powers.
Unfortunately, I can't get that, so I juggle Doffs to find the point where I get a good break-even between abilities. I fly an Atrox, so I know about the console slots too. Believe me, you can run a very deadly combo on that boat with just the console slots it has.
Short story: Don't whine about a possible solution to a problem unless you can come up with a better solution.
Creating more Doffs and/or increasing the number of powers available is no different from suggesting consoles. Players are STILL juggling parts trying to find a mix that they can live with.
If the 'solution' is not actually a solution for me and many others, it's in need of being rebuffed. I'm guessing that for some reason you're in the minority of people not having to juggle consoles on your particular characters' carriers, that's fine, but a large portion of people are.
I did offer up a counter-proposal for a solution, but it seems it doesn't fit with your particular playstyle, so offer up one that fits both then (equally as BS as "Don't whine about a possible solution to a problem unless you can come up with a better solution.")
If the 'solution' is not actually a solution for me and many others, it's in need of being rebuffed. I'm guessing that for some reason you're in the minority of people not having to juggle consoles on your particular characters' carriers, that's fine, but a large portion of people are.
I did offer up a counter-proposal for a solution, but it seems it doesn't fit with your particular playstyle, so offer up one that fits both then (equally as BS as "Don't whine about a possible solution to a problem unless you can come up with a better solution.")
I juggle consoles all the time, as well as Doffs.
This is why I purposefully said to make it a DEVICE. Something that I can use instead of batteries, deuterium surplus, etc. There are a few ship devices worth using on any ship, but there aren't truly enough to be considered "juggling".
Here's the post, just in case you missed it earlier:
I wouldn't make it an innate power, I'd make it a console. Science heavy ships or those in tight groups with a dedicated heal boat wouldn't really require the ability. Also, a second carrier running a pure support build and heal pets would negate the usefulness of the ability.
Making this a console, however, would serve a dual purpose. Adding it as a device, perhaps labelling it as "Hangar - Restorative" would allow for the future release of specialized "Hangar Bay Modules" that could provide certain perks to the pets themselves.
Yes, I will admit to my own mistake. I meant to state "Making this a DEVICE" would serve a dual purpose.
Console / Doff / Device. it is all semantics. What is needed is some way for the Carrier to tend to healing and/or buffing the pets WITHOUT forcing them out of combat for atleast a minute or more. Personally, I'd love to see a "Hangar Bay - Utility" set of consoles, strictly for the carriers, with one for each HB that the ship has. You can mix and match as needed to buff the individual pets you are using in that way. This may, however, be a bit beyond the scope of this AI/UI project as it would require a good bit of work to add into the actual ship's gear window.
This is, however, outside the main scope of this thread. This thread, if I read it correctly, is for actual feedback and suggestions on the present UI/AI situation. It has been stated that such things as ability cooldowns and such ARE BEING EVALUATED. It has also been stated that the Doff powers currently in-game will still work as intended. That means that Doffs that reduce Hangar recharge times will still do so.
Tom61STO, I was not attempting to belittle or condemn you for posting, nor was I being sarcastic about offering up a solution. You calling my post BS is, to put it mildly, childish and not conducive to solving the current problems facing the new carrier AI/UI project.
Now, instead of devolving this thread into a bunch of name-calling and asinine comments, lets really "get down to tacks of brass" and figure out what needs to be worked on to make carrier pets act more like trained pilots and less like instructionally-challenged tribbles...
another run at traelus in my kar'fai gave me all rank 2 Slavers, with one killed.
also seemed a bit more lethal.
first time I assume was a bad run/pilot error.
I would like to suggest we get some new AOE abilties as well, because we will need to heal these things.
maybe all true carriers should get an innate fermion field In the same fashion as the science vessels get an innate Beam targeting set.
Hybrids should not get such an ability. could also be added as another set of engi abilities starting at ensign.
What should someone read in this post? Somebody, who isn't able to spell the shiptype (it's a Kar'Fi, not kar'fai) he is using correctly, wants an overkill ability (an AoE-heal) for real "2-hangarbay-carriers" and wants the hybrid (1 hangarbay) carriers to get nothing. If you would read a few pages of this thread, then you would find my suggestion for a fixed-number inbuild heal into all carrier-pets.
Ok, at least our little fighters suffer some survivability. An instant heal of 25% each time they rank-up might not be enough to give them a chance to reach Rank 5.
So, my idea to give every Hangarpet the ability to heal itself for a fixed Value every few seconds, would give us a reason to use fighters. They are lacking a large hull, but a wing of fighters could regenerate 3 times more hitpoints then a frigate, still 2 times more then Runabouts/Delta-Flyers.
Currently, the only Hangarpet that can (Shield-)heal itself, is the Romulan Droneship. It also doesn't have any problems with the arcs of its weapons, since it has got Beamarrays. These Hangarpets perform sometimes even better then the player piloting the Scimitar that spawned them.
This way spamming the map with fighters will give you regeneration of hitpoints (since every single fighter can heal itself for maybe 2k hull, that would be 6k hitpoints for a wing of fighters). Frigates can use the same ability to heal for the same amount of hitpoints (in this example 2k, so you get just one third of the regeneration, if you are using those big ships).
This would also reduce the need of large differences in the hangarbay cooldowns, you can set it to maybe 30 seconds for all shiptypes (@50 Aux-Power, without any Flightdeck-officers).
So, all problems solved, for the real carriers and for the hybrid-types out there.
I am not opposed to an additional slot on all 2 hanger carriers, that would allow a Hanger utility console to be placed. which is what I assume you were going with. if this were added, the innate I propose could be placed in as a console. as long as it is not needed to be placed in the main console slots.
And again you only think about 2 hangarbay-carriers. Add a console-slot to them (the Fleet Vo'quv would be the first 11 console-slot ship in the game) and don't think about the hybrid-types. It's true, the Vesta has an AoE heal, but you wouldn't waste that on your Hangar-Pets and use it on nearby allies/teammates.
At the moment the new UI is allready preferring the real carrier. Again, read what people (in this case it was again myself) wrote a few pages ago:
You don't have to use a heal on a fighter, you should be able to recall one Hangar-Bay for a short time (in which the fighters heal-up)... Currently you are just unable to launch those fighters again, since there is a bug (see the list of known issues).
The problem I see, is that ships with only one hangar-bay need to recall all their fighters to heal them up. A per-wing recall would be much better, even for 2 hangar-ships.
If you had the choice to recall 6 fighters, so 3 can heal-up, or recall 3 fighters, so 2 can heal-up, what would be your choice? Loosing more firepower (50%) or a working heal-up cycle that allows you to keep 75% of your fighters where they should be?
Armitage, Vesta, Orion Flightdeck-Cruisers and the Scimitar would still need to recall 50% of their pets, but it's less then 100%...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
Why not simply make the ranks a buff on the carrier that can stack to 5 that refreshes on combat call it flight deck veterans (to represent the ships flight deck gaining the experience) and make it have a duration of say... 5 minutes.
Why not simply make the ranks a buff on the carrier that can stack to 5 that refreshes on combat call it flight deck veterans (to represent the ships flight deck gaining the experience) and make it have a duration of say... 5 minutes.
Now you can move between maps with the buff.
Oh, and give it a 1 minute internal cd to keep it in line with the current timer.
Why not simply make the ranks a buff on the carrier that can stack to 5 that refreshes on combat call it flight deck veterans (to represent the ships flight deck gaining the experience) and make it have a duration of say... 5 minutes.
Now you can move between maps with the buff.
Oh, and give it a 1 minute internal cd to keep it in line with the current timer.
"Refreshes on Combat..."
What the devs are creating: A buff of individual pets that, as long as they survive and there is no map transfer, retain up to a rank of 5.
What you are suggesting: An overall buff that, as soon as combat ends (Your carrier is out of Red Alert), the buff is lost and/or reset the moment you enter Red Alert again.
Dechala, many carrier captains circle at close to 10k from an enemy, relying on the pets and their other teammates to do damage while they (the Carrier) keeps the enemy's attention. What you suggest has promise, but needs some further refinement.
Please refresh my memory, but I remember reading somewhere that in the current holodeck system when youvrecall your pet it reset your cds and some people would hit recall then hit attackbfire off thier goodiesvthen hit recall and then attack and fire off the goodies.
I even remember doing this for a time, then I realized it was wasted on advanced slavers.
Hello,
First of all I would like to compliment the development team for this game improvement for carriers!
Secondly a warning, its a wall of text, sorry.
The HUD option is very nice, it really gives the feeling of more control over the pets, at any time I know how many are still alive. I like the idea of leveling pets who gain more DPS and more HP.
Besides the obvious bug of the recall option, and the loss of massive DPS due to the removal of the fighter spam ability, I think its an improvement for the gameplay.
But I would like to suggest a DPS increase of pets, for example by reducing there special ability cooldown or by the proposed suggestion of having higher rarity fighters spawn at higher skill levels. Or reduce the time to level up?
Another suggestion from my side is an automatic pet healing ability, for example when the pets return to the carrier they get automatically healed by small HE like energy beams. Then they don't have to dock, but basically have to fly over the carrier and return directly to combat, maybe this can be programmed as automatic behavior once the pet is below 50%?
Basically since I have build my carrier for healing and buffing my team, I would dislike it when I have to heal my pets instead of the team, besides constantly having to look at who of the pets and who of the team needs healing HP or shields and being in the middle of a fight at the same time might become a bit to much to control.
Another idea, a special carrier console slot for (extra) carrier abilities like a Fermion Field, increased pet damage or something els. [just a thought that popped up]
looking forward to see how this new features will turn out in the future
I like the new durability approach for those expensive carrier pets, altho it lacks a bit in sense, in many of the storyline missions the fight is over in less then 5 mins. Only in the long STF missions the effect might be worth it [Since I don't play PvP cant say a thing about that segment]. And on the next map all the benefits are gone.
I wouldn't mind if the level up process would go very slow but that it doesn't get lost, for example; it will take 24 hours to level up to rank one, and each time you load a new battle-map you spawn the fighter wing with the average xp of that wing last match.
"Refreshes on Combat..."
What the devs are creating: A buff of individual pets that, as long as they survive and there is no map transfer, retain up to a rank of 5.
What you are suggesting: An overall buff that, as soon as combat ends (Your carrier is out of Red Alert), the buff is lost and/or reset the moment you enter Red Alert again.
Dechala, many carrier captains circle at close to 10k from an enemy, relying on the pets and their other teammates to do damage while they (the Carrier) keeps the enemy's attention. What you suggest has promise, but needs some further refinement.
Nice idea though. It has potential.
Thanks!
How about it stacks once up to 5 times for every minute of red alert and has a 5 minute duration. This would allow for map transfers, or even particularly intense stf sessions to keep the buff rolling without it being unduly long.
To adress the Issue of long CDs on special abilities how about that:
1) Make the Pets scale up in those abilities the way Boffs do, according to their Level.
Upon Launch their CD equals that of an untrained Boff... adding 2 Points per Levelup until you end up with 10 points in that skill on a Level 5 Fighter and a 30s CD for the HY Torps.
2) In addition to the Hull heal on levelup, give them something that shaves 20% off of the remaining CD times they currently have, like Technicians do when kicking in A2B
3) I really like the Idea some People already brought up here of above average Pets starting at a higher level from the beginning...
In conjunction with my Idea posted under point 1 that would really make up for the Price difference between normal and adv Pets... have Dil Store Pets start at 2 Stars and Elite Fleet & T5 Rep Fighters start at 3 Stars upon launch.
Just tried the carrier ui, with a FED With The litterBox(ATTrox) Carrier and had the problem of not being able to re-launch docked/recalled fighters also could not call replacement fighters, also are these wings now wings of 2 or are there wings of 3 or 4 out there as well?
Oh god, oh god, yes! Vault Ensnared, Azure Nebula Rescue and Kerrat fighters have a habit of flying off to attack the last ship that destroyed them. On KASE for example, we kill the gens for gate 1 and move to gens for gate 2, every time I launch my fighters they will fly back to gate 1, I can set them to recall and then attack again, but they will stay agroed on the gate.
Its worst then that. They prefer to attack the left side regardless of what you do. I have gone into KASE, killed the original Tac cube and gone right without ever touching the left side. My pets are all dead of course because of the Tac cubes breach so I respawn them on the way. I have them set to "Attack my target" I get into position and start attacking probes and have ZERO pets around me. They are all on the far side randomly attacking the gate or anything else that happens to be near over there. Ive relaunched them with a generator targeted and watched as all but 2 begin the long journey to the far gate. It seems I have to be within 5km or so for them to actually attack my near target instead of the far one. I've recalled them and watched them come back and normal speed (30+ sec travel time) and as soon as I put them on attack target they wander back over there.
My current solution is to just relaunch them because then they are next to me, or I have to constantly put them on recall to keep them next to me and only use "attack" when I'm really closer to my target then a carrier wants to be.
Jul 22 build:
-Recall docking and unloading working, yeah!
-Pets are ignoring Recall if they're under attack, at least part of the time. Considering Recall is most useful to keep them from attacking stuff that they shouldn't (either because they could kill it and that'd be bad, or whatever they're attacking will kill them in short order removing their star status) it definately should be looked into, may be related to the below.
-Pets spawned after issuing Recall (even if freshly issued with none docked) are not docking at all until the command is changed to something else and back for that hangar.
-Deploy wing still going into cooldown if it doesn't have any empty spots to spawn fighters.
-Fer'jais use their Chroniton torps more often than on Holodeck, but not seeing much else different.
-You can Recall wings on a Kar'fi and then have them come out while Phase Shifted. Meaning, you could go up to an enemy while invulnerable and cloaked, then drop four wings right on top of them. PvP'er thoughts on this? I'm thinking drain and/or disable pets (6-12x Elite Orion Interceptor tractors with drain beams) dropped right behind, meaning CSV would have troubles clearing since only the rear turrets would be in range, would be pretty hard to counter other than avoidance of the Kar'fi.
I like the changes, but they had to be done mutch time earlier ...
- The System with the respawning is TOP, Instead of fireing a new squadron.
- The weakening of the fighters of 4% is acceptable if you think of reaching level 5 and having more dammage than bevore.
- The fighters loose their level as you change map ... How about loosing level when entering the System Space. This will make more sence if you think of the Foundry.
- In the levelsystem its a little bit long to reach level 5.
:mad: - The Interface is totally ugly, and it's too big. I wish a smaller one where i can still see the health and shield of my fighters, but not the icons as well as the icon my own ship. I don't really need to know the status of my ship twice, I think this Interface does this, as well what ships i'm using, cauze I still know what fighters i'm sending out.
All in all I think this Carrier-update is going to be worth a try on the testserver, BUT pleace chande this interface.
I like the improvement in generall, HUD to keep an eye on pets, lvl-ing for more healt and dmg (still, 5min???, i hope its just an initial value, i can already see the borg pooping them after they hit 2 stars), so its a nice new feature, but i think u forgot about the carrier commands, they didnt got changed much (beside recall), i think this opportunity should be exploited for further improvement
So heres a generall idea of improving the carrier commands:
Attack: what i expect from pets using this command? Straight reckless attacks (for more usage of forward mounted weapos) focused on a single target, how should it look like as a boost: the straight attacks should make pets easyer to be hit: -5-20% defense, but as they they keep on target they should focus their attacks for more severe dmg: +1-5% critical chance (a pet version of alpha strike maybe) and maybe severity too: 25-50%, as for non-combat pets, they dont attack anyway so default behavior without the defense reduce (couldnt think of a good "attack boost" for NON-combat pets :S)
Intercept: pets attack small targets and fighters, obviously i want them to deal quickly with mines and torps: +accuracy vs small targets, and as i expect them to engage enemy fighters in a dogfight i want them to gain the upperhand by beaing such a good pilot: +defense rating 5-25%, as the extra defense allows them to survive much longer it would make this mode too good to be generally used, therefore: -4 % dmg vs big targets (with the defense rate a pet should reach lvl 2 when the dmg reduce is countered, beside use attack mode for big targets :P), non-combat pets dont attack so the defense bonus should stay, but no change in skill strength (like heals)
Defend/Escort: used on friendly targets is good, but why should i use it for mysefl? If I dont want to fight I simply recall pets and can switch to attack if engaged, BUT if pets were to occupy enemy as i go about my buisness...(like if i were a freighter ^^): +threathgeneration for fighters (if they or carrier is under redalert so they wont become enemy magnets), and if i set non-combat pets to this mode as they mostly support units they better not get attention: -threatgeneration (as they around carrier and can be closer to enemy making them possible prior target, the lower threat should be a constant buff in this mode)
Recall: whohoo 5 star pets! Oh no a fed escort, it will pop PDS, recall, recall, re... aww too late, they were "slow": speed boost of a sort (engine power setting, evasive, etc.), as the shield or hull repair units are most likely to be close by, the speed boost not that good, but a faster docking if i happen to be too close to an AoE dmg source (as big carriers have long way to stop from high speeds, one can get too close to an enemy that use such aoe attack (repulsor or pds...)
This is just a generall idea of a carrier command upgrade, hope u might consider it (at least for a future update) another possible way is to make such flight deck doffs, although i'd prefer if they were tied to the commands themselves
Its worst then that. They prefer to attack the left side regardless of what you do. I have gone into KASE, killed the original Tac cube and gone right without ever touching the left side. My pets are all dead of course because of the Tac cubes breach so I respawn them on the way. I have them set to "Attack my target" I get into position and start attacking probes and have ZERO pets around me. They are all on the far side randomly attacking the gate or anything else that happens to be near over there. Ive relaunched them with a generator targeted and watched as all but 2 begin the long journey to the far gate. It seems I have to be within 5km or so for them to actually attack my near target instead of the far one. I've recalled them and watched them come back and normal speed (30+ sec travel time) and as soon as I put them on attack target they wander back over there.
My current solution is to just relaunch them because then they are next to me, or I have to constantly put them on recall to keep them next to me and only use "attack" when I'm really closer to my target then a carrier wants to be.
Put your pets on escort, they stay close to your ship and usually they attack your targets. On holodeck this doesn't work because escort doesn't work, but on tribble escort works. Add in Purple Escort Flight Deck officers and you can bump your pets damage up by 10 percent each. You won't even notice the -4 percent then and they don't just fly off making mischief. Also leaves them closer to you if you need to recall them.
And I logged into my Atrox to see what happend and there are 2 of those things ... I dont even want to know how it would look on a Jem Dreadnought.
I have a Jem dread - so I will look into how the UI looks later when I'm back home. But from your pic - I see all of your weapons are on autofire - so why do you need thatUI piece? hide it.
You only have 2 rows showing on the abilities (BOFF and captain etc.) box, it may be possible to switch over to 3 or 4 rows, and get rid of your BOFF layout. Then you should be able to put the pet UI over to the right, (or left your choice) of the abilities tray and maybe even gain room.
They are still testing but recall is supposed to be fixed and they have removed the DPS penalty they had added. Pet dmg now starts at current Holodeck levels and goes up as they rank up.
Birds of Prey and Jem'Hadar Attack Frigates now have docking functionality in recall mode.
Hmm i dunno, I use recall to make my Bop's Cloak and then hit attack when I'm ready to have them visible and assist me, and this feature now makes me wait until they are unlocked? maybe you should make a new command to make them just cloak and follow you so when your ready you hit attack and they will decloak and assist instead of using recall to make them cloak and now try and dock?
Hmm i dunno, I use recall to make my Bop's Cloak and then hit attack when I'm ready to have them visible and assist me, and this feature now makes me wait until they are unlocked? maybe you should make a new command to make them just cloak and follow you so when your ready you hit attack and they will decloak and assist instead of using recall to make them cloak and now try and dock?
I didn't test BoP's, but my Elite Stalkers with Battle Cloak work well with the new docking procedures.
When you pull them back with Recall, they cloak as usual. When they come out of being docked, they are still cloaked.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I didn't test BoP's, but my Elite Stalkers with Battle Cloak work well with the new docking procedures.
When you pull them back with Recall, they cloak as usual. When they come out of being docked, they are still cloaked.
Well i tested it on the 16th, and they docked and didnt undock, so i was worried :eek:, maybe i'll try it out tonight and see how they do, but still i would like to have them not dock this way they are ready and able, do they activate crf and hy (buffs) when they come out of being docked, cuz atm i can make them cloak, wait a couple of seconds and then hit attack and they activate their buffs.
You can still get them to cloak/decloak without them docking if you only wait a couple seconds between switching states. It takes like 10-15 seconds for the fighters to actually dock after you tell them to Recall, so quick "alpha strikes" appear to be working exactly as they did on live. I can pull my stalkers back, wait 4-5 seconds for the cloaks to all set up, and then set them back to attack as normal.
Again, I haven't tested BoPs.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Comments
This is what the devs have posted IN THIS THREAD about the issues pertaining to the new Carrier Command Interface
The entire point of the Rank system for the pets is to make it where the pets get a bit more dangerous the longer that they are able to stay alive and fighting. This means having the Carrier players actually USE the recall option occasionally to heal their pets, or otherwise basically not regarding the pets as cannon fodder or one-shot weapons.
The biggest problem with "keeping Veterency" is that the pets are instanced. They only exist within the map that they are spawned in. This is the same way that Engineering turrets and generators are treated, as well as Medics and Security Teams.
Since I can tell many people are NOT reading the entire thread before posting, I will re-quote my own suggestion for fixing the "Verterency Retention" problem
No more consoles please. On 9 console ships like the Kar'fi and Atrox it's a smack in the face making the already behind the curve fleet-less ships worse off. Even on 10 console ships there's already a juggling act between universals, Embassy consoles, Dil Mine consoles (even if they are 1 with half of another) and standard consoles.
There are DOffs that reduce cooldown times, I'm guessing that those still work. Adding abilities with rank up to those or newer Flight Deck officers with the capability could be worthwhile, as all captains have 5 DOff slots at least, and have to give up other active roster DOffs for those benefits.
You whine about consoles like people whine about Active Doffs.
"I don't want to have to give this up!!! Make more room...."
Short story is, if you WANT the powers from the consoles, you need to figure out how to fit them into your build. Same thing with the Doffs.
Personally, I'd like to have 3 Flight Deck Doffs reducing my launch times AND 3 improving attack accuracy, with 3 Technicians reducing cooldowns on my powers.
Unfortunately, I can't get that, so I juggle Doffs to find the point where I get a good break-even between abilities. I fly an Atrox, so I know about the console slots too. Believe me, you can run a very deadly combo on that boat with just the console slots it has.
Short story: Don't whine about a possible solution to a problem unless you can come up with a better solution.
Creating more Doffs and/or increasing the number of powers available is no different from suggesting consoles. Players are STILL juggling parts trying to find a mix that they can live with.
If the 'solution' is not actually a solution for me and many others, it's in need of being rebuffed. I'm guessing that for some reason you're in the minority of people not having to juggle consoles on your particular characters' carriers, that's fine, but a large portion of people are.
I did offer up a counter-proposal for a solution, but it seems it doesn't fit with your particular playstyle, so offer up one that fits both then (equally as BS as "Don't whine about a possible solution to a problem unless you can come up with a better solution.")
I juggle consoles all the time, as well as Doffs.
This is why I purposefully said to make it a DEVICE. Something that I can use instead of batteries, deuterium surplus, etc. There are a few ship devices worth using on any ship, but there aren't truly enough to be considered "juggling".
Here's the post, just in case you missed it earlier: Yes, I will admit to my own mistake. I meant to state "Making this a DEVICE" would serve a dual purpose.
Console / Doff / Device. it is all semantics. What is needed is some way for the Carrier to tend to healing and/or buffing the pets WITHOUT forcing them out of combat for atleast a minute or more. Personally, I'd love to see a "Hangar Bay - Utility" set of consoles, strictly for the carriers, with one for each HB that the ship has. You can mix and match as needed to buff the individual pets you are using in that way. This may, however, be a bit beyond the scope of this AI/UI project as it would require a good bit of work to add into the actual ship's gear window.
This is, however, outside the main scope of this thread. This thread, if I read it correctly, is for actual feedback and suggestions on the present UI/AI situation. It has been stated that such things as ability cooldowns and such ARE BEING EVALUATED. It has also been stated that the Doff powers currently in-game will still work as intended. That means that Doffs that reduce Hangar recharge times will still do so.
Tom61STO, I was not attempting to belittle or condemn you for posting, nor was I being sarcastic about offering up a solution. You calling my post BS is, to put it mildly, childish and not conducive to solving the current problems facing the new carrier AI/UI project.
Now, instead of devolving this thread into a bunch of name-calling and asinine comments, lets really "get down to tacks of brass" and figure out what needs to be worked on to make carrier pets act more like trained pilots and less like instructionally-challenged tribbles...
Edit: Added bold line above
What should someone read in this post? Somebody, who isn't able to spell the shiptype (it's a Kar'Fi, not kar'fai) he is using correctly, wants an overkill ability (an AoE-heal) for real "2-hangarbay-carriers" and wants the hybrid (1 hangarbay) carriers to get nothing. If you would read a few pages of this thread, then you would find my suggestion for a fixed-number inbuild heal into all carrier-pets.
This way spamming the map with fighters will give you regeneration of hitpoints (since every single fighter can heal itself for maybe 2k hull, that would be 6k hitpoints for a wing of fighters). Frigates can use the same ability to heal for the same amount of hitpoints (in this example 2k, so you get just one third of the regeneration, if you are using those big ships).
This would also reduce the need of large differences in the hangarbay cooldowns, you can set it to maybe 30 seconds for all shiptypes (@50 Aux-Power, without any Flightdeck-officers).
So, all problems solved, for the real carriers and for the hybrid-types out there.
EDIT:
And again you only think about 2 hangarbay-carriers. Add a console-slot to them (the Fleet Vo'quv would be the first 11 console-slot ship in the game) and don't think about the hybrid-types. It's true, the Vesta has an AoE heal, but you wouldn't waste that on your Hangar-Pets and use it on nearby allies/teammates.
At the moment the new UI is allready preferring the real carrier. Again, read what people (in this case it was again myself) wrote a few pages ago:
If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
Now you can move between maps with the buff.
Oh, and give it a 1 minute internal cd to keep it in line with the current timer.
"Refreshes on Combat..."
What the devs are creating: A buff of individual pets that, as long as they survive and there is no map transfer, retain up to a rank of 5.
What you are suggesting: An overall buff that, as soon as combat ends (Your carrier is out of Red Alert), the buff is lost and/or reset the moment you enter Red Alert again.
Dechala, many carrier captains circle at close to 10k from an enemy, relying on the pets and their other teammates to do damage while they (the Carrier) keeps the enemy's attention. What you suggest has promise, but needs some further refinement.
Nice idea though. It has potential.
I even remember doing this for a time, then I realized it was wasted on advanced slavers.
First of all I would like to compliment the development team for this game improvement for carriers!
Secondly a warning, its a wall of text, sorry.
The HUD option is very nice, it really gives the feeling of more control over the pets, at any time I know how many are still alive. I like the idea of leveling pets who gain more DPS and more HP.
Besides the obvious bug of the recall option, and the loss of massive DPS due to the removal of the fighter spam ability, I think its an improvement for the gameplay.
But I would like to suggest a DPS increase of pets, for example by reducing there special ability cooldown or by the proposed suggestion of having higher rarity fighters spawn at higher skill levels. Or reduce the time to level up?
Another suggestion from my side is an automatic pet healing ability, for example when the pets return to the carrier they get automatically healed by small HE like energy beams. Then they don't have to dock, but basically have to fly over the carrier and return directly to combat, maybe this can be programmed as automatic behavior once the pet is below 50%?
Basically since I have build my carrier for healing and buffing my team, I would dislike it when I have to heal my pets instead of the team, besides constantly having to look at who of the pets and who of the team needs healing HP or shields and being in the middle of a fight at the same time might become a bit to much to control.
Another idea, a special carrier console slot for (extra) carrier abilities like a Fermion Field, increased pet damage or something els. [just a thought that popped up]
looking forward to see how this new features will turn out in the future
I like the new durability approach for those expensive carrier pets, altho it lacks a bit in sense, in many of the storyline missions the fight is over in less then 5 mins. Only in the long STF missions the effect might be worth it [Since I don't play PvP cant say a thing about that segment]. And on the next map all the benefits are gone.
I wouldn't mind if the level up process would go very slow but that it doesn't get lost, for example; it will take 24 hours to level up to rank one, and each time you load a new battle-map you spawn the fighter wing with the average xp of that wing last match.
Kind regards
Thanks!
How about it stacks once up to 5 times for every minute of red alert and has a 5 minute duration. This would allow for map transfers, or even particularly intense stf sessions to keep the buff rolling without it being unduly long.
1) Make the Pets scale up in those abilities the way Boffs do, according to their Level.
Upon Launch their CD equals that of an untrained Boff... adding 2 Points per Levelup until you end up with 10 points in that skill on a Level 5 Fighter and a 30s CD for the HY Torps.
2) In addition to the Hull heal on levelup, give them something that shaves 20% off of the remaining CD times they currently have, like Technicians do when kicking in A2B
3) I really like the Idea some People already brought up here of above average Pets starting at a higher level from the beginning...
In conjunction with my Idea posted under point 1 that would really make up for the Price difference between normal and adv Pets... have Dil Store Pets start at 2 Stars and Elite Fleet & T5 Rep Fighters start at 3 Stars upon launch.
Just tried the carrier ui, with a FED With The litterBox(ATTrox) Carrier and had the problem of not being able to re-launch docked/recalled fighters also could not call replacement fighters, also are these wings now wings of 2 or are there wings of 3 or 4 out there as well?
is each displayed pet one wing? or one pet?
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Formerly Jewkesman Member from Nov 2009!
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Formerly Jewkesman Member from Nov 2009!
Its worst then that. They prefer to attack the left side regardless of what you do. I have gone into KASE, killed the original Tac cube and gone right without ever touching the left side. My pets are all dead of course because of the Tac cubes breach so I respawn them on the way. I have them set to "Attack my target" I get into position and start attacking probes and have ZERO pets around me. They are all on the far side randomly attacking the gate or anything else that happens to be near over there. Ive relaunched them with a generator targeted and watched as all but 2 begin the long journey to the far gate. It seems I have to be within 5km or so for them to actually attack my near target instead of the far one. I've recalled them and watched them come back and normal speed (30+ sec travel time) and as soon as I put them on attack target they wander back over there.
My current solution is to just relaunch them because then they are next to me, or I have to constantly put them on recall to keep them next to me and only use "attack" when I'm really closer to my target then a carrier wants to be.
-Recall docking and unloading working, yeah!
-Pets are ignoring Recall if they're under attack, at least part of the time. Considering Recall is most useful to keep them from attacking stuff that they shouldn't (either because they could kill it and that'd be bad, or whatever they're attacking will kill them in short order removing their star status) it definately should be looked into, may be related to the below.
-Pets spawned after issuing Recall (even if freshly issued with none docked) are not docking at all until the command is changed to something else and back for that hangar.
-Deploy wing still going into cooldown if it doesn't have any empty spots to spawn fighters.
-Fer'jais use their Chroniton torps more often than on Holodeck, but not seeing much else different.
-You can Recall wings on a Kar'fi and then have them come out while Phase Shifted. Meaning, you could go up to an enemy while invulnerable and cloaked, then drop four wings right on top of them. PvP'er thoughts on this? I'm thinking drain and/or disable pets (6-12x Elite Orion Interceptor tractors with drain beams) dropped right behind, meaning CSV would have troubles clearing since only the rear turrets would be in range, would be pretty hard to counter other than avoidance of the Kar'fi.
:mad: - The Interface is totally ugly, and it's too big. I wish a smaller one where i can still see the health and shield of my fighters, but not the icons as well as the icon my own ship. I don't really need to know the status of my ship twice, I think this Interface does this, as well what ships i'm using, cauze I still know what fighters i'm sending out.
All in all I think this Carrier-update is going to be worth a try on the testserver, BUT pleace chande this interface.
So heres a generall idea of improving the carrier commands:
Attack: what i expect from pets using this command? Straight reckless attacks (for more usage of forward mounted weapos) focused on a single target, how should it look like as a boost: the straight attacks should make pets easyer to be hit: -5-20% defense, but as they they keep on target they should focus their attacks for more severe dmg: +1-5% critical chance (a pet version of alpha strike maybe) and maybe severity too: 25-50%, as for non-combat pets, they dont attack anyway so default behavior without the defense reduce (couldnt think of a good "attack boost" for NON-combat pets :S)
Intercept: pets attack small targets and fighters, obviously i want them to deal quickly with mines and torps: +accuracy vs small targets, and as i expect them to engage enemy fighters in a dogfight i want them to gain the upperhand by beaing such a good pilot: +defense rating 5-25%, as the extra defense allows them to survive much longer it would make this mode too good to be generally used, therefore: -4 % dmg vs big targets (with the defense rate a pet should reach lvl 2 when the dmg reduce is countered, beside use attack mode for big targets :P), non-combat pets dont attack so the defense bonus should stay, but no change in skill strength (like heals)
Defend/Escort: used on friendly targets is good, but why should i use it for mysefl? If I dont want to fight I simply recall pets and can switch to attack if engaged, BUT if pets were to occupy enemy as i go about my buisness...(like if i were a freighter ^^): +threathgeneration for fighters (if they or carrier is under redalert so they wont become enemy magnets), and if i set non-combat pets to this mode as they mostly support units they better not get attention: -threatgeneration (as they around carrier and can be closer to enemy making them possible prior target, the lower threat should be a constant buff in this mode)
Recall: whohoo 5 star pets! Oh no a fed escort, it will pop PDS, recall, recall, re... aww too late, they were "slow": speed boost of a sort (engine power setting, evasive, etc.), as the shield or hull repair units are most likely to be close by, the speed boost not that good, but a faster docking if i happen to be too close to an AoE dmg source (as big carriers have long way to stop from high speeds, one can get too close to an enemy that use such aoe attack (repulsor or pds...)
This is just a generall idea of a carrier command upgrade, hope u might consider it (at least for a future update) another possible way is to make such flight deck doffs, although i'd prefer if they were tied to the commands themselves
Put your pets on escort, they stay close to your ship and usually they attack your targets. On holodeck this doesn't work because escort doesn't work, but on tribble escort works. Add in Purple Escort Flight Deck officers and you can bump your pets damage up by 10 percent each. You won't even notice the -4 percent then and they don't just fly off making mischief. Also leaves them closer to you if you need to recall them.
I have a Jem dread - so I will look into how the UI looks later when I'm back home. But from your pic - I see all of your weapons are on autofire - so why do you need thatUI piece? hide it.
You only have 2 rows showing on the abilities (BOFF and captain etc.) box, it may be possible to switch over to 3 or 4 rows, and get rid of your BOFF layout. Then you should be able to put the pet UI over to the right, (or left your choice) of the abilities tray and maybe even gain room.
Just some thoughts.
They are still testing but recall is supposed to be fixed and they have removed the DPS penalty they had added. Pet dmg now starts at current Holodeck levels and goes up as they rank up.
I didn't test BoP's, but my Elite Stalkers with Battle Cloak work well with the new docking procedures.
When you pull them back with Recall, they cloak as usual. When they come out of being docked, they are still cloaked.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Well i tested it on the 16th, and they docked and didnt undock, so i was worried :eek:, maybe i'll try it out tonight and see how they do, but still i would like to have them not dock this way they are ready and able, do they activate crf and hy (buffs) when they come out of being docked, cuz atm i can make them cloak, wait a couple of seconds and then hit attack and they activate their buffs.
Again, I haven't tested BoPs.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard