My point is, if he dislikes it so much, he can leave at any time.
Things will never be as they were in the shows.
An MMO like this has it's limits, Cryptic can try their best to make it close, which they are getting to with ironically the Romulans, but there is a limit to how far they can go.
Partially because of the game engine but also because if they take it too far, it'll get frustrating especially if you have to go through the content multiple times which is typical in MMO's.
I do agree that things seem especially odd for Feds, I've even stated on the forum before that they may as well be renamed Terrans, but the fact remains that this is an MMO first, that means accepting that things will never be to every single person's wishes, that there will be updates that make for example RSE purists rage.
You can accept it, or you can leave.
You picked literally the worst example you could have with the Romulans being close to the tv series. They are nothing alike. Not as a people, not as a empire, not even on the person by person level. Romulans in the show were generally arrogant and condescending. With the exception of the Tal Shiar, none of the Romulans are portrayed as such.
Not sure how the game engine has to do with story/character development at all. Content multiple times being frustrating? Oh you mean like grinding stfs/epohhs/ce for reputation? Grinding away at fleet bases? Yeah that's all the same content. Yeah it gets repetitive.
Why can you only accept it or leave? Why can't you try to change things to be more to your liking? Why are your only options suck it up or leave? Why can't you suck it up while trying to change it to be better for you?
I read that so often it is scary.
"this is how it is going to be so either you like it or you leave"
People's voices and opinions obviously do not matter with that mindset and it is scary.
I'm okay with the game as is, I would like to see it improve on it's story and grow closer to the roots on which it was based. Hell I'd even like to see ways to play content that was shown on screen on the tv shows. Personally I'd like DS9 in game format better than any of the mission series that currently exists in the game. Only a few semi-plausible ways to implement that of course.
in regards to the galor from the lock box, heres something to consider. most likely the version that actual cardassians will get will be superior without a doubt. the lock box version will be the only cardie ship that anyone else can use. think about it. do you really think the cardies will give the feds and kdf a superior ship design then there own?
If they do add a faction and a Galor class I imagine we would get one similar except without the free weapons...or if nothing else we can get a Keldon class.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Not sure how the game engine has to do with story/character development at all. Content multiple times being frustrating? Oh you mean like grinding stfs/epohhs/ce for reputation? Grinding away at fleet bases? Yeah that's all the same content. Yeah it gets repetitive.
We needed more content to start with, not these Romulans that most people are unhappy with in one form or another. If/When we get that, grinding will seem less dull. Instead we'll probably just get more and more fractions and drive away all but the newbies because no one in their right mind would ever want to run their 5000th STF on yet another character that is almost identical to the last one.
I'm okay with the game as is, I would like to see it improve on it's story and grow closer to the roots on which it was based.
It is, that's why according to the TV Show, we should never see Cardassia with a military. Because they got obliterated at the end of DS9 and became besties with the Federation.
Personally I'd like DS9 in game format better than any of the mission series that currently exists in the game. Only a few semi-plausible ways to implement that of course.
Dominion Wars is there, it's a bit old but you might find it fun if you want that kind of experience. I don't think it'll happen in STO. I think the best you got/will get was the "Cardassian Struggle" series of missions.
Galor class will be T4 just like enterprise, defiant, and Voyager, D'D Warbird.
On the hand it will probably get both a retrofit C-Store Verison and fleet galor verison, again just like the Enterprise, Voyager, Defiant, and D'D Warbird.
They probably change the name of the Lockbox ship slightly to Dominion Galar or True Way Galar or something it make it clear its seperate and to reduce confusion.
Nice try, but a lockbox ship will always trump a free ship in status.
what makes you think it will be free. I had to pay for my tier 5 rommie ships. granted the first ship is free if your a lifetime sub but after that it's 2,500 c points.
You picked literally the worst example you could have with the Romulans being close to the tv series. They are nothing alike. Not as a people, not as a empire, not even on the person by person level. Romulans in the show were generally arrogant and condescending. With the exception of the Tal Shiar, none of the Romulans are portrayed as such.
Not what I meant.
What I meant was that ironically Cryptic got close to how the Feds should be mission wise, with the Romulans of all things.
I couldn't care less about the shows, not the shows nor the movies brought me here, me being a gamer did, Cryptic cannot just pretend as if Hobus never happened and the RSE is in it's prime, Hobus changed everything the Romulans had or knew, nothing remained the same for them or the Remans, so it shouldn't be shown in the game as if it has either.
The Tal Shiar controlled RSE is massacring it's own people by the billions, they are a defined bad guy faction in this game, get it through your skull that the Republic isn't going anywhere.
Though would I like an independent Romulan Republic? Sure.
Not sure how the game engine has to do with story/character development at all. Content multiple times being frustrating? Oh you mean like grinding stfs/epohhs/ce for reputation? Grinding away at fleet bases? Yeah that's all the same content. Yeah it gets repetitive.
Welcome to the wonderful world of MMO's, my point was that the first time people will play a mission for the story, people will love the expanded interaction and puzzle solving, and then every time they repeat it on an alt or for limited time rewards, those same puzzles will become a nuisance that stands in the way of your reward.
Story/character wise the engine has nothing to do with it, however, some things can and some things cannot be done due to engine limitations.
I could imagine the Dominion (or what's left of it) to be a similar "ally"-faction like the "New-Romulans". Playable races: Vorta, Jham'Hadar, Cardassian. If they ally with the KDF, Dosi and Wadi will unlock as race option (ally choice in the beginning of creation necessary). If they ally with the UFP, Paradan and Karemma will unlock. Bonus unlock most likely again Liberated Borg (most likely with Cardassian origin look).
However, what ships do we have left to use for that faction? Almeowst all Dominion ships are already available in a luckbox except the Keldon, Hideki and JH Battleship (not the dread, just the battleship). The heavy escort, dreadnought and attack ship are luckbox ships, as is the Galor. Because of this issue, I think the Dominion - even if I had luv'd to see it in game as a playable faction or ally-faction - will never be a playable allegiance. Too bad.
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
The Dominion only was defeated in the Alpha Quadrant. There were no incursions from the Fed/KDF/Rom to the Gamma Quadrant during the Dominion War. The Dominion is still very much intact logistically and militarily. The territory that the Dominion covers is vast. The Dominion merely breeds troops and officers. The Dominion Military wouldn't take very long at all to replinish it's forces (Martok said they breed troops faster than we can kill them). There is no reason for it to be an alligned faction outside of laziness on the developers part.
I wasn't making a strawman, I was trying to comically paraphrase how stupid the idea is.
You see, the "Mirror" has "Universe" next to it, because it's a different universe than the one we're playing in. Therefore, it can't be part of the game we're playing unless we're making STO a complete joke, in which case not only Harry Poter and Andromeda are plausible, but even Hobbits would be wellcomed.
There is the prime universe we're playing in and there's the MU which I consider to be the embodiment of writers block and lousy writing in general. Whenever the writers of Trek had no idea how to fill in a few episodes to round up a season, they'd throw up a couple of MU episodes which made no sense and had no continuity with the story in the show. If you like this, you might want to wait for Star Trek: Mirror Universe game, because STO aint the one.
Oh, and regardless from how many cannons you're going to fire the word canon, this still doesn't make any sense.
Not only Straw Man, but also Slippery Slope. Hint: "Sense" is not Logic, and Rhetoric certainly isn't Logic (and no, I'm not talking about Vulcan "Logic," but the academic discipline).
And yes, prime universe, etc. But nevertheless, Mirror Universe incursions happen in-game, and Mirror Universe interactions have been part of the shows (whether you like them or not isn't relevant to whether or not the idea "makes sense," but it is worth noting that they are immensely popular episodes, so your dislike is far from universal -- no pun intended).
Also, although I'm not too concerned with G.E. Moore and his irrepressible question begging and circular reasoning (seeing as "common sense" is all too often illogical if not completely irrational), I'm not exactly sure on what grounds you make the assertion that it "doesn't make any sense." Physicists don't have any difficulty with the idea of multiple universes, even intersecting universes and the possibility of movement from one to another: http://physics.about.com/od/physicsatod/g/brane.htm
I'm sure you can bing or google more on this theory without my assistance. Even a Wikipedia article on the subject turns up in such search results.
The Romulan factions story is still incomplete. I think it would be a mistake to create another faction, until they complete the Romulan faction. It will never be complete, until it is free of the KDF and FED. This would take a great deal of time.
Like someone already said, i would prefer a civillian faction.
I never found the cardassian "empire" interesting. Of course Cryptic would give them better ships than starfleet but still i wouldn't want to play a cardassian.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I always found Mirror Universe episodes very lackluster with maybe exception of TOS episode and I don't see any point of creating MU faction.
From the races left in STO I'd say Cardassians are the obvious choice for the faction; There's not nearly enough known about the breen, at least not in the tv-shows, the dominion faction would be problematic due Founders as they IMO doesn't suit well to be playable race without gimping them.
Playing Jem'Hadar as playable character doesn't suit due them being basicly cannon fodder in DS9 for the Founders. They also would need to change so many missions for Jem'Hadar as them being played by Jem'Hadar wouldn't make any sense. Vorta didn't even fight so there's no way of making them playable without utterly breaking the canon.
If they make Borg playable faction, even as "Hugh-like"-faction then STO imo has jumped over the giant sized shark and IMO the ships do not suit to be playable and we alrady have liberated borg-race for all factions.
Not only Straw Man, but also Slippery Slope. Hint: "Sense" is not Logic, and Rhetoric certainly isn't Logic (and no, I'm not talking about Vulcan "Logic," but the academic discipline).
And yes, prime universe, etc. But nevertheless, Mirror Universe incursions happen in-game, and Mirror Universe interactions have been part of the shows (whether you like them or not isn't relevant to whether or not the idea "makes sense," but it is worth noting that they are immensely popular episodes, so your dislike is far from universal -- no pun intended).
Also, although I'm not too concerned with G.E. Moore and his irrepressible question begging and circular reasoning (seeing as "common sense" is all too often illogical if not completely irrational), I'm not exactly sure on what grounds you make the assertion that it "doesn't make any sense." Physicists don't have any difficulty with the idea of multiple universes, even intersecting universes and the possibility of movement from one to another: http://physics.about.com/od/physicsatod/g/brane.htm
I'm sure you can bing or google more on this theory without my assistance. Even a Wikipedia article on the subject turns up in such search results.
Doesn't make sense in terms of does not belong here. Let me try another example, not making sense in terms of creating a game about the WWII and then putting the Roman Empire faction that has Legions and Triremes - does not belong in the setting. Some scientists may have no issues with the possibility of time travel, but a faction like that would still make no sense in a game like that.
And I really don't feel we need to call in Professor Stephen Hawking to join in on this discussion, especaily not for Star Trek even though it always tried to follow the basic principles of contemporary science, still has enough technobabble in it to burn all science books in the human history. So really, what physicist debate, know or believe in the real wolrd, has no weight in this discussion here. Also, I'm sure Wikipedia would be most enlightening and beneficial on the subject. :rolleyes:
The point is - we have a whole universe of Trek availible, with thousands of species mentioned or seen in the shows, we have extensive lore spreading into thousands of books, so we can do a lot better than "Uhm....what do we do next....? I know! Let's just turn everything on it's head, make Humans evil, Klingons schemers, Cardassians peacemakers and Romulans florists!"
That said, even though I'm fan of the Cardassians myself I would like to play as one, I think that these endless debates about "next faction" are overdone. This game is perfectly fine with 3 factions and should really focus on developing further on that what we have now. The only time when we'd be ready to consider a "next faction" is when the current 3 factions are equal in content, resources, toys and opportunities IMHO.
i wouldn't mind seeing the Terran Empire playable don't ask me why i just feel like they should be playalbe even tho most of there ship are the same as the Federation it would be 1st bad guy faction we would play but i don't think cryptic will allow it.
I would actually be interested in some actual proof that these episodes are most popular of all episodes in all series.
Doesn't make sense in terms of does not belong here. Let me try another example, not making sense in terms of creating a game about the WWII and then putting the Roman Empire faction that has Legions and Triremes - does not belong in the setting. Some scientists may have no issues with the possibility of time travel, but a faction like that would still make no sense in a game like that.
And I really don't feel we need to call in Professor Stephen Hawking to join in on this discussion, especaily not for Star Trek even though it always tried to follow the basic principles of contemporary science, still has enough technobabble in it to burn all science books in the human history. So really, what physicist debate, know or believe in the real wolrd, has no weight in this discussion here. Also, I'm sure Wikipedia would be most enlightening and beneficial on the subject. :rolleyes:
The point is - we have a whole universe of Trek availible, with thousands of species mentioned or seen in the shows, we have extensive lore spreading into thousands of books, so we can do a lot better than "Uhm....what do we do next....? I know! Let's just turn everything on it's head, make Humans evil, Klingons schemers, Cardassians peacemakers and Romulans florists!"
That said, even though I'm fan of the Cardassians myself I would like to play as one, I think that these endless debates about "next faction" are overdone. This game is perfectly fine with 3 factions and should really focus on developing further on that what we have now. The only time when we'd be ready to consider a "next faction" is when the current 3 factions are equal in content, resources, toys and opportunities IMHO.
Your analogy is flawed. Of course a fictional (or semi-historical) movie about World War II would not and could not involve imperial Romans; if it did, it would no longer be a "war movie," but a "science fiction movie" or "science fantasy movie" or "fantasy movie."
The Mirror Universe, though, IS part of the Star Trek canon (and fits soundly into the science fiction genre), and therefore is not something that "does not belong here." You may not care about canon; many do. You may be willing to toss anything you dislike into the rubbish bin, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Mirror Universe is already in-game and there's no putting the djinn back into the lamp.
There's a reason I didn't choose to link to the Wikipedia article. Wikipedia is not exactly a reputable source (speaking generally; there are exceptions). I mentioned it because it may give more detail and may simplify the explanation.
As for the "next faction" stuff, yes, as I said earlier in this thread, it's not time yet; too much yet to do on the KDF and the Romulans, as well as bug/glitch fixes across the game. But if they're going to do it, let's have something that a fair number of people actually might play. Cardassians? They're based on a real-world historical political power (actually, a conflation of two: Germany from 1933-1945, and the British Empire during its more colonial days; it's the first that bothers me most, but the second was no enlightened progressive society, either, and I cannot see the Cardassians becoming a playable faction due to this, without a huge amount of revisionism being applied to their culture, or some revolutionary evolution of mentality on the part of the Cardassians, like a Surak-type person arising and leading the Cardassians into a new worldview -- which would be more tinkering with the canon storyline and might not be approved by CBS).
Yes, and rename the current Galor, 'Mirror Galor' or some such. Then there could be a Fleet Galor with similar stats to the Mirror Galor, but the spiral waves would stay unique to the Mirror one.
Oh, and if you're the same markhawkman who made a trek mod for the 5th incarnation of a little known turn based space strategy game, thouroughly enjoyable. Nice work
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I think I have seen someone post something about a Civillian faction and I think from a story and ship selection and work for the developers this seems feasable.
We have all these sub races. Deferi, Packled, Breen, Ferengi, Caitians, Nausicians, Orion ect.
They could create a story around a lone smuggler trying to make his way in the Galaxy. Taking odd jobs from the Orion syndicate and Running guns for the Ferengi or something.
This would allow players to get a wide variety of ships that we see only as NPC ships. Like the Orion, Nausician, Breen and Deferi. It would unlock all the Alien ships we see in the game but currently are not playable.
The ships are already in game, the character models are already in game. No need to create new home worlds. And once you reach level 50 you can choose to go Fed, Rom, or KDF.
The story can start on Nimbus III and you work for a crime boss and then take over his operation and have adventures and then choose to clean up your act and marry a Fed woman and become a member of the federation.
Or take over your bosses operation and absorb all of your competition, then buy some Orion slave girls and set up operations in KDF space.
Or become a super-spy/information smuggler and work for D'Tan in sabotaging the Tal'shair and go Romulan.
This would allow players to be any race they want. Lots of costumes, unique ship designs. Just think you could fly a Horde Drek'Hi Dreadnought: http://sto.gamepedia.com/Drek%27Hi_Dreadnought
Without tons and tons of work Cryptic could release lots of new content new ships new playable races and story missions without having to start from scratch.
Your analogy is flawed. Of course a fictional (or semi-historical) movie about World War II would not and could not involve imperial Romans; if it did, it would no longer be a "war movie," but a "science fiction movie" or "science fantasy movie" or "fantasy movie."
^^This right here is a proof that you're not even reading what I posted, but I'll entertain you nonetheless.
The Mirror Universe, though, IS part of the Star Trek canon (and fits soundly into the science fiction genre), and therefore is not something that "does not belong here." You may not care about canon; many do. You may be willing to toss anything you dislike into the rubbish bin, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Mirror Universe is already in-game and there's no putting the djinn back into the lamp.
I find it hillarious how you acuse someone of not caring about canon, while at the same time you're trying to pour over the mirror universe into the prime universe.
I never said that MU is not a part of Trek canon, that's your own flawed conclusion and I have no idea where you pulled that out of. I would probably play a game set in the mirror universe myself, but completely set in that part of the mirror. That might be fun. Pouring over the MU into the prime universe and having a Federation and a Terran Empire at the same time is lame.
And once more, no matter how many you fire - your canon cannons do nothing to my hull.
As for the "next faction" stuff, yes, as I said earlier in this thread, it's not time yet; too much yet to do on the KDF and the Romulans, as well as bug/glitch fixes across the game. But if they're going to do it, let's have something that a fair number of people actually might play. Cardassians? They're based on a real-world historical political power (actually, a conflation of two: Germany from 1933-1945, and the British Empire during its more colonial days; it's the first that bothers me most, but the second was no enlightened progressive society, either, and I cannot see the Cardassians becoming a playable faction due to this, without a huge amount of revisionism being applied to their culture, or some revolutionary evolution of mentality on the part of the Cardassians, like a Surak-type person arising and leading the Cardassians into a new worldview -- which would be more tinkering with the canon storyline and might not be approved by CBS).
Ahem, just like CBS didn't approve a completely different worldview of the Romulans? :rolleyes:
Kind of torn on the idea of a Cardassian faction after having played with the LoR for a while.
I like the idea of new factions but not if they are going to be treated as the Romluans did and have to be Red faction or Blue faction. I don't mind the idea that the species has been divided in how they feel they should approach the future (i.e.; their old ways or a new way), I think that is a good story angle....
More importantly though is I want to see more space added to the game.
^^This right here is a proof that you're not even reading what I posted, but I'll entertain you nonetheless.
I find it hillarious how you acuse someone of not caring about canon, while at the same time you're trying to pour over the mirror universe into the prime universe.
I never said that MU is not a part of Trek canon, that's your own flawed conclusion and I have no idea where you pulled that out of. I would probably play a game set in the mirror universe myself, but completely set in that part of the mirror. That might be fun. Pouring over the MU into the prime universe and having a Federation and a Terran Empire at the same time is lame.
And once more, no matter how many you fire - your canon cannons do nothing to my hull.
Ahem, just like CBS didn't approve a completely different worldview of the Romulans? :rolleyes:
Yeah, I am reading every word. I also pointed out earlier that I didn't understand your assertion about it not making sense, but rather than come out with a literal response, you chose to use another analogy, which, once again, failed.
I never said the Mirror Universe should be pulled over into the Prime Universe, either. Look, really, go look up "Straw Man fallacy" somewhere like the Fallacy Files website. Meanwhile, you glibly dismiss canon with comments like "no matter how many you fire - your canon cannons do nothing to my hull."
I'm absolutely fine with them being in their own universe, while players of characters from that universe come into the Prime Universe to maraud, perform espionage, loot defeated vessels, etc. You know, kind of exactly what happens now, except that the Mirror ships would be flown by PCs instead of NPCs and represent a player faction.
The Romulans do not have "a completely different worldview." Constant attempts to generalize that all Romulans are villainous are nonsensical. Both of the Romulan Fleet Commanders we saw in TOS were far from villainous. I've addressed this previously, too, but I'll add more weight to my contentions: "Liviana Charvanek" offered amnesty to the crew of the Enterprise. Kirk said to "Keras": "In a different reality, I could have called you 'friend'."
These Factions are nothing like they were in the TV Shows and Movies
StarFleet: TV/Movies-Peaceful, Defenders of Freedom Game-Violent, Genocidal
You are only selectively remembering certain content. I'll grudging admit to an exaggeration as to combat in the game. But that's the nature of Star Trek games. They are combat oriented. And STO is no exception especially with the earliest content created in their time crunch to launch. But Genocidal? Please, that is clearly beyond the pale. Doesn't even rate consideration.
Klingons: TV/Movies-Conquerers, Quick to Anger Game-Aiding lesser Species,Righteous
There another aspect self interest for individuals and for the Empire as a whole. The Empire has avoided the route of conquest, welfare and fighting when it suited their owne self-interest. And you also forget that Klingon view everthing as combat even marriage. That equally applies to diplomacy. The Empire sees values in culling favor with the RR at the expense of the Federation if a all possible. They would not let the Federation "win" in the battle. And the RR is a weapon at the throat of Sela's Star Empire and the Tal Shiar.
And there are Klingons of all stipes. Those that would for power in dishonorable ways, House of Duras, Gowron, and even J'mpok. And there are honorable and righteous Klingons: Worf. And those in between who are truely honorable and are loyal to the Empires not neccessarily those in power, Ja'rod of the House of Duras.
Cardassians: TV/Movies-Controlling, Big Brother Game- Reserved, Weak
Those two powers has a lot in common before before and after STO. Both powers were dominated by a warlike government or the military, both had a secret police which was unanswerable to all but a few. The civilian populations are kept inline with propaganda, fear, brutality, violence by their secret police.
Before STO both powers has undercurrents of dissidents and resistance movements. If you recall before the start of the Dominion War, the civilian government oust the Cardassian Military from power. The Dapta Council took over and even has to be given protection by Star Fleet against the KDF who wanted to take them into custody. The Romulans has many example of a resistance movement who stood against or talked in favor of a less militaristic actions of their government. The major thing to take from the series is that we saw very little of the day to day lives of the civilian populations. What we got exposed to on the movies and series are the military, secret police, agent and government officers not civilians.
In STO was are see a much more robust view of the civilizations which they could not afford to delve into on the series or movies. We see civilians trying to rebuild their lives and civilizations from being devastated. The Cardassians are now under civilian rule which hasn't been the case for generations, at least. The Romulan civilians who lived under fear for generations or longer are building a new homeworld in the light away from the old ways of secrecy and deception. The remnants of the old ways are trying to reestablish them again. The new civliations are trying to keep the old guard from winning.
If they were anything like the way they were in the TV Shows and Movies theyd actually be interesting to play.
As I started above, the current state of the Galaxy is nothing like from the TV Shows and movies. And I'm no talking about the Undine, Borg and Iconians.
I can't let these mis-characterizations stand unchallenged. You aren't looking at the post series/movie state of the powers.
In STO was are see a much more robust view of the civilizations which they could not afford to delve into on the series or movies. We see civilians trying to rebuild their lives and civilizations from being devastated. The Cardassians are now under civilian rule which hasn't been the case for generations, at least. The Romulan civilians who lived under fear for generations or longer are building a new homeworld in the light away from the old ways of secrecy and deception. The remnants of the old ways are trying to reestablish them again. The new civliations are trying to keep the old guard from winning.
As I started above, the current state of the Galaxy is nothing like from the TV Shows and movies. And I'm no talking about the Undine, Borg and Iconians.
The political state of Romulan and Cardassian factions is NOT the issue. Canon is NOT the issue.
We've been gimped out of a 3rd faction and I for one am not happy about the idea of seeing the same thing happen again with another one. If it's going to be like that then no, just no, and I would like someone to officially tell us that the engine doesn't allow it.
I knew how it was going to be because I read the forums and I informed myself. But, I would like you all to try something. Pretend you're new to the game and go to the website. Read all the stuff about Romulans and how cool they and LoR are. Once done, load up the game and play a Rom. Now, tell me, at what point where you told that you would become a vassal to Feds or KDF?
I quote: You will be the one to reshape an empire. Gather allies, go undercover and find the proof that will rally your people to revolt.
Together, you will rise up against an oppressive regime and demand freedom. You will fight for your people.
You are the Legacy of Romulus.
Space Hippy Republic? OK, fine, if that's what JJ has done means we have to have, I'll take it, but as a permanent thing, the alliance system is BS and that's all there is to it. It's an excuse. Outside of the possibility that it's actually impossible with the current game engine, there's no reason the Romulan Republic couldn't have been a proper faction, none. Yes I would have preferred the RSE, but we have the RR and I actually like the way the story has developed.
It would make sense that during the story, you ally with one or the other, but at level 50, it should be reversed. At the end of the Rom story, you fight off a massive Elachi invasion force and save the day.
All those arguments about diluting the game population and there not being a big enough player base to suppost three factions aren't really valid either. It's already diluted. There are players who will always play KDF, players who will always play Fed and players who will always play Rom. I used to have a Fed main, I deleted it. I deleted it because had Romulans been in the game as a 3rd faction from the start, that Fed toon would never have existed. So now, from a Fed main, I have a Romulan main and I know from talking to a lot of players that I am not alone in this (maybe they didn't delete, but they are now 'Rom', not Fed/KDF).
Players have already chosen what faction or vassal state - I refuse to use the word faction or Romulans - and there are others who might have stuck with Romulans who haven't precisely because of the status quo
What isn't 'diluted' is the money made on new Romulan players buying both the legacy pack and the lower level ships for their ally faction. The fleet system isn't diluted. The PvE/PvP queues aren't diluted and if Cryptic ever answered the call from KDF players to allow cross-faction queueing on events that don't have it (where it makes sense), then they can make as many factions as they want without 'diluting' the player base. I am pretty sure this comes from KDF players who have a legitimate concern that the few players that are over there might become less with the introduction of newer factions. OK, but let me say this. You could play on a Fed and avoid 90% of the issues that KDF players complain about, but you don't, because you like KDF and the bottom line is that you don't need a justifiable reason. Many of us are in the same position with Romulans only... hmmmmmm..... we don't have a faction.
So yea, polish of the KDF, make Roms a proper faction and start work on doing the same with Cardassia. Whether they are True way/Obsidian Order spoonheads or some kind of hail Damar and Kira for Presdent hippies is neither here nor there. A LOT is lost in immersive gameplay experience playing Rom 'fraction' versus Fed/KDF. Great... You can manually change your UI to mask the fact that you are constantly reminded that you are, in the end, just another playable race.
Also to all those people going on about devastation, Romulus and Remus blowing up being the end of RSE and so on, I quote this from the game blurb:
These are dark and dangerous times for your people, as the Tal Shiar crack down on any dissent and mysterious beings unleash terror throughout the far-flung colony worlds.
If there's no empire left, who is this Sela Empress of and what's the dissent from exactly? Far-flung colony worlds? Wait... what? The Romulans had other planets? No..... surely not?
But like I say, that's not the point.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I started with STO during the headstart-phase. My first char (who is still my main char) is a Cardassian.
When the Galors became acailable I was more than glad to add this cardassian item to my char.
It would be great if Cardassia would be another playable faction in Future. I would like to see the rise of the Cardassian Union which was like during the time of Gul Dukat.
I dont see any Problems with the Canon.
After 30 years democracy failed in the cardassian Union and to make it worse the religious fanatics of the Oralian Way are also poisoning the minds of the Cardassians. So it is not unrealistic that the Military will create again a dictatorship to restore order.
And maybe - until we will get the Cardassians as a playable faction in future - it will be possible to get cardassian uniforms and weapons for cosmetic effect in the shop like the equip of the bayorans.
As I started above, the current state of the Galaxy is nothing like from the TV Shows and movies. And I'm no talking about the Undine, Borg and Iconians.
Moreover ... if you're really watched DS9 to the END ... you'd realize that the state of Cardassians is not the same as it was during TNG/DS9 ... and probably never will be ....
Bashir: 800 million dead.
Garak: And the figures are still coming in.
Bashir: I'm sorry.
Garak: Oh, it's quite all right, Doctor. Some would say we got exactly what we deserved. After all, we are not completely innocent here. And I'm not just referring to the occupation of Bajor. Our history is filled with arrogant aggression. We joined the Dominion and betrayed the entire Alpha Quadrant. Yes... we are guilty as charged.
Bashir: But Cardassian people are strong, they will survive. Cardassia will survive...
Garak: Oh please, doctor, spare me your insufferable Federation optimism! Of course it'll survive. But not the Cardassia I knew. Our art and literature was second to none. And now look at us. So many of our best minds all... gone.
So Cardassia being some kind of Semi-Faction actually makes 1000-times more sense than the Romulans right now (well it kind of makes sense as well if you're not dismissing the JJ Hobus-Nova TRIBBLE :P )
As another guy already mentioned Cardassians are basically "Space-TRIBBLE", some of them "had to" join the Red Faction occuptation zone (UDSSR/GDR(DDR)/KDF) and some of them "had to" join the Blue Faction occuptation zone (USA/BRD/FEDs) so it would only make sense ... and might be an interesting story to tell
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
You picked literally the worst example you could have with the Romulans being close to the tv series. They are nothing alike. Not as a people, not as a empire, not even on the person by person level. Romulans in the show were generally arrogant and condescending. With the exception of the Tal Shiar, none of the Romulans are portrayed as such.
Not sure how the game engine has to do with story/character development at all. Content multiple times being frustrating? Oh you mean like grinding stfs/epohhs/ce for reputation? Grinding away at fleet bases? Yeah that's all the same content. Yeah it gets repetitive.
Why can you only accept it or leave? Why can't you try to change things to be more to your liking? Why are your only options suck it up or leave? Why can't you suck it up while trying to change it to be better for you?
I read that so often it is scary.
"this is how it is going to be so either you like it or you leave"
People's voices and opinions obviously do not matter with that mindset and it is scary.
I'm okay with the game as is, I would like to see it improve on it's story and grow closer to the roots on which it was based. Hell I'd even like to see ways to play content that was shown on screen on the tv shows. Personally I'd like DS9 in game format better than any of the mission series that currently exists in the game. Only a few semi-plausible ways to implement that of course.
If they do add a faction and a Galor class I imagine we would get one similar except without the free weapons...or if nothing else we can get a Keldon class.
We needed more content to start with, not these Romulans that most people are unhappy with in one form or another. If/When we get that, grinding will seem less dull. Instead we'll probably just get more and more fractions and drive away all but the newbies because no one in their right mind would ever want to run their 5000th STF on yet another character that is almost identical to the last one.
It is, that's why according to the TV Show, we should never see Cardassia with a military. Because they got obliterated at the end of DS9 and became besties with the Federation.
Probably won't happen for licensing/copyright reasons. Also it would be hard to market some of the episodes shown in a "pew pew" game like this.
Dominion Wars is there, it's a bit old but you might find it fun if you want that kind of experience. I don't think it'll happen in STO. I think the best you got/will get was the "Cardassian Struggle" series of missions.
On the hand it will probably get both a retrofit C-Store Verison and fleet galor verison, again just like the Enterprise, Voyager, Defiant, and D'D Warbird.
They probably change the name of the Lockbox ship slightly to Dominion Galar or True Way Galar or something it make it clear its seperate and to reduce confusion.
What will be more interesting will be to see what the Cardassian Flagship, Veteran Ship, and Carrier will be like.
what makes you think it will be free. I had to pay for my tier 5 rommie ships. granted the first ship is free if your a lifetime sub but after that it's 2,500 c points.
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
I'm sure they could come up with a few interesting Cardassian designs. The Jem HEC is a pretty cool one.
My character Tsin'xing
Not what I meant.
What I meant was that ironically Cryptic got close to how the Feds should be mission wise, with the Romulans of all things.
I couldn't care less about the shows, not the shows nor the movies brought me here, me being a gamer did, Cryptic cannot just pretend as if Hobus never happened and the RSE is in it's prime, Hobus changed everything the Romulans had or knew, nothing remained the same for them or the Remans, so it shouldn't be shown in the game as if it has either.
The Tal Shiar controlled RSE is massacring it's own people by the billions, they are a defined bad guy faction in this game, get it through your skull that the Republic isn't going anywhere.
Though would I like an independent Romulan Republic? Sure.
Welcome to the wonderful world of MMO's, my point was that the first time people will play a mission for the story, people will love the expanded interaction and puzzle solving, and then every time they repeat it on an alt or for limited time rewards, those same puzzles will become a nuisance that stands in the way of your reward.
Story/character wise the engine has nothing to do with it, however, some things can and some things cannot be done due to engine limitations.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
However, what ships do we have left to use for that faction? Almeowst all Dominion ships are already available in a luckbox except the Keldon, Hideki and JH Battleship (not the dread, just the battleship). The heavy escort, dreadnought and attack ship are luckbox ships, as is the Galor. Because of this issue, I think the Dominion - even if I had luv'd to see it in game as a playable faction or ally-faction - will never be a playable allegiance. Too bad.
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Except that the Mirror episodes remain among the most popular of all episodes in all of the series ...
Not only Straw Man, but also Slippery Slope. Hint: "Sense" is not Logic, and Rhetoric certainly isn't Logic (and no, I'm not talking about Vulcan "Logic," but the academic discipline).
And yes, prime universe, etc. But nevertheless, Mirror Universe incursions happen in-game, and Mirror Universe interactions have been part of the shows (whether you like them or not isn't relevant to whether or not the idea "makes sense," but it is worth noting that they are immensely popular episodes, so your dislike is far from universal -- no pun intended).
Also, although I'm not too concerned with G.E. Moore and his irrepressible question begging and circular reasoning (seeing as "common sense" is all too often illogical if not completely irrational), I'm not exactly sure on what grounds you make the assertion that it "doesn't make any sense." Physicists don't have any difficulty with the idea of multiple universes, even intersecting universes and the possibility of movement from one to another:
http://physics.about.com/od/physicsatod/g/brane.htm
I'm sure you can bing or google more on this theory without my assistance. Even a Wikipedia article on the subject turns up in such search results.
I never found the cardassian "empire" interesting. Of course Cryptic would give them better ships than starfleet but still i wouldn't want to play a cardassian.
From the races left in STO I'd say Cardassians are the obvious choice for the faction; There's not nearly enough known about the breen, at least not in the tv-shows, the dominion faction would be problematic due Founders as they IMO doesn't suit well to be playable race without gimping them.
Playing Jem'Hadar as playable character doesn't suit due them being basicly cannon fodder in DS9 for the Founders. They also would need to change so many missions for Jem'Hadar as them being played by Jem'Hadar wouldn't make any sense. Vorta didn't even fight so there's no way of making them playable without utterly breaking the canon.
If they make Borg playable faction, even as "Hugh-like"-faction then STO imo has jumped over the giant sized shark and IMO the ships do not suit to be playable and we alrady have liberated borg-race for all factions.
I would actually be interested in some actual proof that these episodes are most popular of all episodes in all series.
Doesn't make sense in terms of does not belong here. Let me try another example, not making sense in terms of creating a game about the WWII and then putting the Roman Empire faction that has Legions and Triremes - does not belong in the setting. Some scientists may have no issues with the possibility of time travel, but a faction like that would still make no sense in a game like that.
And I really don't feel we need to call in Professor Stephen Hawking to join in on this discussion, especaily not for Star Trek even though it always tried to follow the basic principles of contemporary science, still has enough technobabble in it to burn all science books in the human history.
The point is - we have a whole universe of Trek availible, with thousands of species mentioned or seen in the shows, we have extensive lore spreading into thousands of books, so we can do a lot better than "Uhm....what do we do next....? I know! Let's just turn everything on it's head, make Humans evil, Klingons schemers, Cardassians peacemakers and Romulans florists!"
That said, even though I'm fan of the Cardassians myself I would like to play as one, I think that these endless debates about "next faction" are overdone. This game is perfectly fine with 3 factions and should really focus on developing further on that what we have now. The only time when we'd be ready to consider a "next faction" is when the current 3 factions are equal in content, resources, toys and opportunities IMHO.
Your analogy is flawed. Of course a fictional (or semi-historical) movie about World War II would not and could not involve imperial Romans; if it did, it would no longer be a "war movie," but a "science fiction movie" or "science fantasy movie" or "fantasy movie."
The Mirror Universe, though, IS part of the Star Trek canon (and fits soundly into the science fiction genre), and therefore is not something that "does not belong here." You may not care about canon; many do. You may be willing to toss anything you dislike into the rubbish bin, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Mirror Universe is already in-game and there's no putting the djinn back into the lamp.
There's a reason I didn't choose to link to the Wikipedia article. Wikipedia is not exactly a reputable source (speaking generally; there are exceptions). I mentioned it because it may give more detail and may simplify the explanation.
As for the "next faction" stuff, yes, as I said earlier in this thread, it's not time yet; too much yet to do on the KDF and the Romulans, as well as bug/glitch fixes across the game. But if they're going to do it, let's have something that a fair number of people actually might play. Cardassians? They're based on a real-world historical political power (actually, a conflation of two: Germany from 1933-1945, and the British Empire during its more colonial days; it's the first that bothers me most, but the second was no enlightened progressive society, either, and I cannot see the Cardassians becoming a playable faction due to this, without a huge amount of revisionism being applied to their culture, or some revolutionary evolution of mentality on the part of the Cardassians, like a Surak-type person arising and leading the Cardassians into a new worldview -- which would be more tinkering with the canon storyline and might not be approved by CBS).
Yes, and rename the current Galor, 'Mirror Galor' or some such. Then there could be a Fleet Galor with similar stats to the Mirror Galor, but the spiral waves would stay unique to the Mirror one.
Oh, and if you're the same markhawkman who made a trek mod for the 5th incarnation of a little known turn based space strategy game, thouroughly enjoyable. Nice work
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
We have all these sub races. Deferi, Packled, Breen, Ferengi, Caitians, Nausicians, Orion ect.
They could create a story around a lone smuggler trying to make his way in the Galaxy. Taking odd jobs from the Orion syndicate and Running guns for the Ferengi or something.
This would allow players to get a wide variety of ships that we see only as NPC ships. Like the Orion, Nausician, Breen and Deferi. It would unlock all the Alien ships we see in the game but currently are not playable.
The ships are already in game, the character models are already in game. No need to create new home worlds. And once you reach level 50 you can choose to go Fed, Rom, or KDF.
The story can start on Nimbus III and you work for a crime boss and then take over his operation and have adventures and then choose to clean up your act and marry a Fed woman and become a member of the federation.
Or take over your bosses operation and absorb all of your competition, then buy some Orion slave girls and set up operations in KDF space.
Or become a super-spy/information smuggler and work for D'Tan in sabotaging the Tal'shair and go Romulan.
This would allow players to be any race they want. Lots of costumes, unique ship designs. Just think you could fly a Horde Drek'Hi Dreadnought:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Drek%27Hi_Dreadnought
Without tons and tons of work Cryptic could release lots of new content new ships new playable races and story missions without having to start from scratch.
^^This right here is a proof that you're not even reading what I posted, but I'll entertain you nonetheless.
I find it hillarious how you acuse someone of not caring about canon, while at the same time you're trying to pour over the mirror universe into the prime universe.
I never said that MU is not a part of Trek canon, that's your own flawed conclusion and I have no idea where you pulled that out of. I would probably play a game set in the mirror universe myself, but completely set in that part of the mirror. That might be fun. Pouring over the MU into the prime universe and having a Federation and a Terran Empire at the same time is lame.
And once more, no matter how many you fire - your canon cannons do nothing to my hull.
Ahem, just like CBS didn't approve a completely different worldview of the Romulans? :rolleyes:
I like the idea of new factions but not if they are going to be treated as the Romluans did and have to be Red faction or Blue faction. I don't mind the idea that the species has been divided in how they feel they should approach the future (i.e.; their old ways or a new way), I think that is a good story angle....
More importantly though is I want to see more space added to the game.
Yeah, I am reading every word. I also pointed out earlier that I didn't understand your assertion about it not making sense, but rather than come out with a literal response, you chose to use another analogy, which, once again, failed.
I never said the Mirror Universe should be pulled over into the Prime Universe, either. Look, really, go look up "Straw Man fallacy" somewhere like the Fallacy Files website. Meanwhile, you glibly dismiss canon with comments like "no matter how many you fire - your canon cannons do nothing to my hull."
I'm absolutely fine with them being in their own universe, while players of characters from that universe come into the Prime Universe to maraud, perform espionage, loot defeated vessels, etc. You know, kind of exactly what happens now, except that the Mirror ships would be flown by PCs instead of NPCs and represent a player faction.
The Romulans do not have "a completely different worldview." Constant attempts to generalize that all Romulans are villainous are nonsensical. Both of the Romulan Fleet Commanders we saw in TOS were far from villainous. I've addressed this previously, too, but I'll add more weight to my contentions: "Liviana Charvanek" offered amnesty to the crew of the Enterprise. Kirk said to "Keras": "In a different reality, I could have called you 'friend'."
You are only selectively remembering certain content. I'll grudging admit to an exaggeration as to combat in the game. But that's the nature of Star Trek games. They are combat oriented. And STO is no exception especially with the earliest content created in their time crunch to launch. But Genocidal? Please, that is clearly beyond the pale. Doesn't even rate consideration.
There another aspect self interest for individuals and for the Empire as a whole. The Empire has avoided the route of conquest, welfare and fighting when it suited their owne self-interest. And you also forget that Klingon view everthing as combat even marriage. That equally applies to diplomacy. The Empire sees values in culling favor with the RR at the expense of the Federation if a all possible. They would not let the Federation "win" in the battle. And the RR is a weapon at the throat of Sela's Star Empire and the Tal Shiar.
And there are Klingons of all stipes. Those that would for power in dishonorable ways, House of Duras, Gowron, and even J'mpok. And there are honorable and righteous Klingons: Worf. And those in between who are truely honorable and are loyal to the Empires not neccessarily those in power, Ja'rod of the House of Duras.
Those two powers has a lot in common before before and after STO. Both powers were dominated by a warlike government or the military, both had a secret police which was unanswerable to all but a few. The civilian populations are kept inline with propaganda, fear, brutality, violence by their secret police.
Before STO both powers has undercurrents of dissidents and resistance movements. If you recall before the start of the Dominion War, the civilian government oust the Cardassian Military from power. The Dapta Council took over and even has to be given protection by Star Fleet against the KDF who wanted to take them into custody. The Romulans has many example of a resistance movement who stood against or talked in favor of a less militaristic actions of their government. The major thing to take from the series is that we saw very little of the day to day lives of the civilian populations. What we got exposed to on the movies and series are the military, secret police, agent and government officers not civilians.
In STO was are see a much more robust view of the civilizations which they could not afford to delve into on the series or movies. We see civilians trying to rebuild their lives and civilizations from being devastated. The Cardassians are now under civilian rule which hasn't been the case for generations, at least. The Romulan civilians who lived under fear for generations or longer are building a new homeworld in the light away from the old ways of secrecy and deception. The remnants of the old ways are trying to reestablish them again. The new civliations are trying to keep the old guard from winning.
As I started above, the current state of the Galaxy is nothing like from the TV Shows and movies. And I'm no talking about the Undine, Borg and Iconians.
The political state of Romulan and Cardassian factions is NOT the issue. Canon is NOT the issue.
We've been gimped out of a 3rd faction and I for one am not happy about the idea of seeing the same thing happen again with another one. If it's going to be like that then no, just no, and I would like someone to officially tell us that the engine doesn't allow it.
I knew how it was going to be because I read the forums and I informed myself. But, I would like you all to try something. Pretend you're new to the game and go to the website. Read all the stuff about Romulans and how cool they and LoR are. Once done, load up the game and play a Rom. Now, tell me, at what point where you told that you would become a vassal to Feds or KDF?
I quote: You will be the one to reshape an empire. Gather allies, go undercover and find the proof that will rally your people to revolt.
Together, you will rise up against an oppressive regime and demand freedom. You will fight for your people.
You are the Legacy of Romulus.
Space Hippy Republic? OK, fine, if that's what JJ has done means we have to have, I'll take it, but as a permanent thing, the alliance system is BS and that's all there is to it. It's an excuse. Outside of the possibility that it's actually impossible with the current game engine, there's no reason the Romulan Republic couldn't have been a proper faction, none. Yes I would have preferred the RSE, but we have the RR and I actually like the way the story has developed.
It would make sense that during the story, you ally with one or the other, but at level 50, it should be reversed. At the end of the Rom story, you fight off a massive Elachi invasion force and save the day.
All those arguments about diluting the game population and there not being a big enough player base to suppost three factions aren't really valid either. It's already diluted. There are players who will always play KDF, players who will always play Fed and players who will always play Rom. I used to have a Fed main, I deleted it. I deleted it because had Romulans been in the game as a 3rd faction from the start, that Fed toon would never have existed. So now, from a Fed main, I have a Romulan main and I know from talking to a lot of players that I am not alone in this (maybe they didn't delete, but they are now 'Rom', not Fed/KDF).
Players have already chosen what faction or vassal state - I refuse to use the word faction or Romulans - and there are others who might have stuck with Romulans who haven't precisely because of the status quo
What isn't 'diluted' is the money made on new Romulan players buying both the legacy pack and the lower level ships for their ally faction. The fleet system isn't diluted. The PvE/PvP queues aren't diluted and if Cryptic ever answered the call from KDF players to allow cross-faction queueing on events that don't have it (where it makes sense), then they can make as many factions as they want without 'diluting' the player base. I am pretty sure this comes from KDF players who have a legitimate concern that the few players that are over there might become less with the introduction of newer factions. OK, but let me say this. You could play on a Fed and avoid 90% of the issues that KDF players complain about, but you don't, because you like KDF and the bottom line is that you don't need a justifiable reason. Many of us are in the same position with Romulans only... hmmmmmm..... we don't have a faction.
So yea, polish of the KDF, make Roms a proper faction and start work on doing the same with Cardassia. Whether they are True way/Obsidian Order spoonheads or some kind of hail Damar and Kira for Presdent hippies is neither here nor there. A LOT is lost in immersive gameplay experience playing Rom 'fraction' versus Fed/KDF. Great... You can manually change your UI to mask the fact that you are constantly reminded that you are, in the end, just another playable race.
Also to all those people going on about devastation, Romulus and Remus blowing up being the end of RSE and so on, I quote this from the game blurb:
These are dark and dangerous times for your people, as the Tal Shiar crack down on any dissent and mysterious beings unleash terror throughout the far-flung colony worlds.
If there's no empire left, who is this Sela Empress of and what's the dissent from exactly? Far-flung colony worlds? Wait... what? The Romulans had other planets? No..... surely not?
But like I say, that's not the point.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
When the Galors became acailable I was more than glad to add this cardassian item to my char.
It would be great if Cardassia would be another playable faction in Future. I would like to see the rise of the Cardassian Union which was like during the time of Gul Dukat.
I dont see any Problems with the Canon.
After 30 years democracy failed in the cardassian Union and to make it worse the religious fanatics of the Oralian Way are also poisoning the minds of the Cardassians. So it is not unrealistic that the Military will create again a dictatorship to restore order.
And maybe - until we will get the Cardassians as a playable faction in future - it will be possible to get cardassian uniforms and weapons for cosmetic effect in the shop like the equip of the bayorans.
Moreover ... if you're really watched DS9 to the END ... you'd realize that the state of Cardassians is not the same as it was during TNG/DS9 ... and probably never will be ....
Bashir: 800 million dead.
Garak: And the figures are still coming in.
Bashir: I'm sorry.
Garak: Oh, it's quite all right, Doctor. Some would say we got exactly what we deserved. After all, we are not completely innocent here. And I'm not just referring to the occupation of Bajor. Our history is filled with arrogant aggression. We joined the Dominion and betrayed the entire Alpha Quadrant. Yes... we are guilty as charged.
Bashir: But Cardassian people are strong, they will survive. Cardassia will survive...
Garak: Oh please, doctor, spare me your insufferable Federation optimism! Of course it'll survive. But not the Cardassia I knew. Our art and literature was second to none. And now look at us. So many of our best minds all... gone.
So Cardassia being some kind of Semi-Faction actually makes 1000-times more sense than the Romulans right now (well it kind of makes sense as well if you're not dismissing the JJ Hobus-Nova TRIBBLE :P )
As another guy already mentioned Cardassians are basically "Space-TRIBBLE", some of them "had to" join the Red Faction occuptation zone (UDSSR/GDR(DDR)/KDF) and some of them "had to" join the Blue Faction occuptation zone (USA/BRD/FEDs) so it would only make sense ... and might be an interesting story to tell