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Escorts do not belong in CCE

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  • spodilbunnyspodilbunny Member Posts: 33
    edited July 2013
    i am a sci,have a nice tholian recluse,neutronium alloy mk xi (blue) x4,field emitters mk xi (blue) x4,phaser relay mk xi (blue),assimilated universal module x1,full maco ship gear mk x (still accumulating omega marks for mk xi maco set,finished getting the dilith),kinetic cutting beam mk xii (a beam weapon that does torp style dmg,turns out to be awesome for the entity)

    tholian thermionic torpedo (great for breifly disabling those annoying shards,and thus allowing my team mates to go after them)..omega torp launcher mk xii (when you hit something with that it applys a debuff that ups dmg of the kinetic beam,or maybe vice versa,i forget which)..two andorian DBB on the front,one andorian beam array on the back

    i like spamming my tholian widows against the entity,there cheap to respawn,and they spam torpedos alot which does some good dmg on the entity...i also basically heal me team mates as fast as i can,also anyone else that needs help,transfer sheild strength,extend sheilds,hazard emitters,sometimes even something as basic a tac team can save another players ship

    i use subnucleonic beam on the eneity,as well as heavy graviton beam alot

    it helps alot with the entity,and i try my best to fulfill my duty as a carrier ship

    and my ship rarely dies in even cc elite...

    but i see some players get in there who leave after figuring out kamikazi on something as large as a moon isnt such a smart idea...

    my message to those types is,pump power into your sheilds,this can be done with a couple of clicks,and with that boosted dmg you escorts have,feeding power into sheilds shouldnt be such a problem..cause once your sheilds are gone the matter conversion beam from the entity will tear you apart

    also,stay within good range of your healers,work with the others to mount an effective attack

    and for heaven`s sake,stop firing when that thing absorbs,otherwise we usually end up with half the team dead,alot of the time its the escorts who got too close
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think ships that can put out decent dps but stay there and take punishment are best, but carriers not so much because their pets get wiped out by the aoe spam. Whats great is the often made fun of Bortasqu dominates this event, even better then the new scimitar because it is more durable but has almost the DPS of it. Tacs can do enough dps in any of this ships either by using DHC, or using aux2bat FAW spam.

    Best ships- from top to bottom
    Tac or Command Bortasqu
    Fleet Torhkat, Scimitar
    other KDF battle cruisers and adapted battlecruiser, Fleet D'Deridex
    adapted destroyer, dkora, galor, fleet regent, fleet excelsior, Fleet Haakona, Fleet Mogai
    other Fed cruisers
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • ajma420ajma420 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    I think ships that can put out decent dps but stay there and take punishment are best, but carriers not so much because their pets get wiped out by the aoe spam. Whats great is the often made fun of Bortasqu dominates this event, even better then the new scimitar because it is more durable but has almost the DPS of it. Tacs can do enough dps in any of this ships either by using DHC, or using aux2bat FAW spam.

    Best ships- from top to bottom
    Tac or Command Bortasqu
    Fleet Torhkat, Scimitar
    other KDF battle cruisers and adapted battlecruiser, Fleet D'Deridex
    adapted destroyer, dkora, galor, fleet regent, fleet excelsior, Fleet Haakona, Fleet Mogai
    other Fed cruisers

    I agree, the bortasqu is a very capable ship, but my Falchion and JHDC have both served me very well. Also, the karfi is excellent, but lacks enough eng slots IMO
    Light Speed! - No, light speed is too slow. We need LUDICROUS SPEED!

    Ajma420 - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Federation
    Catherine The Great - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Empire
    Vladimir - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Rihannsu Empire
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I routinely fly a Mobius, a Fleet Advanced, and Breen Chel Grett, and none of them have any problems surviving CCE, even occasionally taking first place. I already have a full Mk XII Nukara Space and Appropriated Munitions Set for my CCE efforts, so I've seen plenty of this fight.

    The only CCE match that I've seen fail had me as the only player who even slotted any crystallization stack removal (Tykens, Tachyon Beam, Power Siphon, CPB, etc), an obvious recipe for disaster since 1 Tykens in the entire team is not enough to offset the stack build-up. Escorts take less punishment to bring down once the crystallize stack hit 50+, and if it gets to 100, then even cruisers start dropping hard.

    In short, Escorts are not the problem -- it's the players who don't bother learning the fight and failing to bring any crystallization-stack removal abilities. You can always swap the stack-removal BOFF if at least 2 other players show up with them, but if no one bothers to bring any stack removal, then the whole group desserves to fail.

    So the next time you run CCE, please bring a BOFF at least one stack removal ability, because pew-pew'ing and tanking alone are not enough for consistent CCE victories.
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The kicker with those abilities is that, nearly without exception, all of those abilities are TRIBBLE in regular play and only do anything at all because of specially-written gimmick behavior that applies nowhere else.

    As such, your options, assuming you're not a carrier and can't simply slap in Delta pets, are:
    1. Permanently sacrifice a slot on your ship for an ability that is completely useless in every other mission, essentially permanently dedicating your ship to CE and nothing else.
    2. Sacrifice a boff slot you may not even have if you are F2P for a boff to carry this ability, and completely mangle your tray every time you put it in, thus spending 5 minutes every battle to descramble your tray.
    3. Constantly train and untrain the same ability over and over and over, a thing you can only do at one specific place in the entire game, meaning you can never leave that spot until you're done forever, creating the same effect as 1.

    None of these options are particularly good. This sort of relegates recrystallization removal to carriers and the occasional ES drain build.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • platewearingbirdplatewearingbird Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The kicker with those abilities is that, nearly without exception, all of those abilities are TRIBBLE in regular play and only do anything at all because of specially-written gimmick behavior that applies nowhere else.

    As such, your options, assuming you're not a carrier and can't simply slap in Delta pets, are:
    1. Permanently sacrifice a slot on your ship for an ability that is completely useless in every other mission, essentially permanently dedicating your ship to CE and nothing else.
    2. Sacrifice a boff slot you may not even have if you are F2P for a boff to carry this ability, and completely mangle your tray every time you put it in, thus spending 5 minutes every battle to descramble your tray.


    These are two of the four major reasons I don't run CCE in general. It pretty much requires a stack-killer ability, and those abilities are so laughable in any other STF.

    I CAN do that on my Mobius (and I have a spare sci Boff to set up like that), I plain refuse not to because it screws up my action bars upon doing so and is a major inconvenience just for one STF, and for what?

    Even if you get in the top 3 the item rewards are laughable to the point I'd rather do elite Borg and have not only a near 100% success rate AND optional bonuses and get much more dilithium along with BNPs and a rare/very rare every time, and only 80 marks on the most grindy reputation yet for considerably more work (mostly not even succeeding because too many leave to out-dps the regen) AND having to specially build for it?

    I'd rather do the normal and get 50 marks in less than ten minutes. I probably wouldn't even do that anymore since I get full munitions and the space set from Nukara is lackluster.

    I did this rant to point out something: we wouldn't be ******** about who's removing stacks or what their ship is/equipped with if the reward actually reflected the effort. Everyone would be showing up with delta flyer laden carriers packing stack-killing Boff abilities if it was worth it.

    But for how stringent it is, and what it pays out, it's no wonder people are warping out mid fight or coming without proper setups.
  • wilbor2wilbor2 Member Posts: 1,684 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Not tryed this mission since it was a limited time event got 1 place with my bop before any other char ill have to test it on elite hope it tests my skill
    gs9kwcxytstg.jpg
  • alfamegaalfamega Member Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    i am flying mostly escorts/raptors/destroyers. i got rarely a problem to survive in CCE. mostly when all the big fragments are chasing me and i got cd on evasive.
    yes, the beam is nasty, but there enough skills to push the resistance to the level where it barely scratch.
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The kicker with those abilities is that, nearly without exception, all of those abilities are TRIBBLE in regular play and only do anything at all because of specially-written gimmick behavior that applies nowhere else.

    As such, your options, assuming you're not a carrier and can't simply slap in Delta pets, are:
    1. Permanently sacrifice a slot on your ship for an ability that is completely useless in every other mission, essentially permanently dedicating your ship to CE and nothing else.
    2. Sacrifice a boff slot you may not even have if you are F2P for a boff to carry this ability, and completely mangle your tray every time you put it in, thus spending 5 minutes every battle to descramble your tray.
    3. Constantly train and untrain the same ability over and over and over, a thing you can only do at one specific place in the entire game, meaning you can never leave that spot until you're done forever, creating the same effect as 1.

    None of these options are particularly good. This sort of relegates recrystallization removal to carriers and the occasional ES drain build.

    A few things to consider:

    For Points #1 and #3 above -- BOFF station assignments can be done any time outside of combat, so all you need is an extra science BOFF configured with Tykens, Tachyon Beam, CPB, or Energy Siphon. Nothing permanent here -- just swap the BOFF in as needed, like any other ship gear.

    For #2: 10 full power tray rows are present, though the GUI only displays 3 at a time. Configure Row #4 or above with the CCE DOFF in place, and cycle it in using the up/down arrows on the power tray row depending on which setup you need. This allows you to swap to / from your CCE-specific build (or any other set-up) in mere seconds... just make sure to create the set-up prior to entering CCE.


    Given the above, some minor prep work lets any player reconfigure for CCE in the blink of an eye on any ship.
  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You are confusing bad players with bad ships.

    good luck getting through CCE without them.
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    These are two of the four major reasons I don't run CCE in general. It pretty much requires a stack-killer ability, and those abilities are so laughable in any other STF.

    I CAN do that on my Mobius (and I have a spare sci Boff to set up like that), I plain refuse not to because it screws up my action bars upon doing so and is a major inconvenience just for one STF, and for what?

    You should do what I do: configure your Action Bar's Row#4 for the CCE-specific BOFF, then rotate it into one of the displayed rows whenever you swap in the stack-killer sci BOFF. It takes seconds to swap power tray configs using this method.

    Even if you get in the top 3 the item rewards are laughable to the point I'd rather do elite Borg and have not only a near 100% success rate AND optional bonuses and get much more dilithium along with BNPs and a rare/very rare every time, and only 80 marks on the most grindy reputation yet for considerably more work (mostly not even succeeding because too many leave to out-dps the regen) AND having to specially build for it?

    Agreed -- I also question why Mk X's drop from CCE given this encounter's difficulty level. Drops should be Mk XI or XII, but someone at Cryptic seems to have a strange sense of humor and believes otherwise.
    I'd rather do the normal and get 50 marks in less than ten minutes. I probably wouldn't even do that anymore since I get full munitions and the space set from Nukara is lackluster.

    I did this rant to point out something: we wouldn't be ******** about who's removing stacks or what their ship is/equipped with if the reward actually reflected the effort. Everyone would be showing up with delta flyer laden carriers packing stack-killing Boff abilities if it was worth it.

    But for how stringent it is, and what it pays out, it's no wonder people are warping out mid fight or coming without proper setups.

    Yeah, the Nukara space set does need a serious revamp. However, Cryptic will not bother changing anything unless sufficient pressure is brought to them by active members of the STO community.
  • sortofsortof Member Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    My torpedo build Fleet Recon works wonders in CE.

    I have the best damaging weapon, and I use a double Tachyon rotation to constantly debuff the CE. The large fragments are a menace though, for a shield tanking ship, but I mostly just ignore them, and I make a quick retreat to heal up if I get lower than 30 % hull.

    I imagine that in an escort, the only tactic would be hit and run, using a non-AoE alpha build. But maybe there are other ways too.
    Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
  • hevachhevach Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ajma420 wrote: »
    you have a valid point, but isnt it better to have both a large hull AND damage mitigation/healing? The JHDC can do both... consider the fact that the JHDC has a Lt. Cmdr eng and a universal which I use for science

    This is hardly unique among escorts. You have one science/engineering power over a host of other escorts, and are actually beaten out in that department by possible heavy destroyer or JHHEC setups.
    and in the end, the differences you listed - " your higher health and better shields will make you better able to avoid a heavily buffed matter conversion beam (which shouldn't be happening) or a shockwave - are really what separate the shooting from the 'sploded

    Yes, against two things, one of which shouldn't be happening and one of which you shouldn't be getting hit with. Well, technically, like I'd said before, three, but the third is a prolonged engagement in which the escort is unable to keep up with incoming damage, and your extra hull is only stalling that by one matter conversion beam - and when it becomes clear you're not keeping up, the escort has better options to avoid a death. Again, you're confusing bad players with bad ships, and the fact that your ship lets you get away with being a worse player is not in any way an argument in your favor.
  • redsnake721redsnake721 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Another issue with CCE is everytime a shard hits a ship and the small shards return to the Entity it buffs it and increases the Beam damage. I constantly see Escorts stitting still letting shards pound into them. You need to keep moving and in an Escort you can't broadside worth a darn. The OP has a point a beam boat Cruiser is much better for this event. I run the Nukara Console/Beam/Mine set and the Nukara Shield with all Tetryon beams. I just spam EPTE and run circles around it. Seems to work well. The shards cant catch me and I can keep a full broadside on it at all times. When it starts to power up I just hit evasive and get out of range.

    And speaking of the Nukara set. Its abilities make no since. One ability restores your weapons when they are knocked off line in 4 seconds. Whenever the Tholians have knocked my weapons off line it has never taken a full 4 seconds for them to come back online so this ability does what? (Nothing?) The second is an AOE attack that looks just like the tier 5 Nukara ability.

    The Rep ability is: Refracting Tetryon Cascade

    PBAoE Chain Tetryon Damage
    Release a cascading burst of Tetryon energy from your Deflector Dish at foes within 3km. The Tetryon Cascade will refract from initial targets to other nearby targets, dealing less damage with each jump. The Refracting Tetryon Cascade can jump to 2 additional targets. The charge can only jump 5km to the next target.
    WARNING: If the targets sensors are scrambled or otherwise confused when it is hit with the Tetryon Cascade, the charge may bounce back to you or your allies.
    Affects Foe (5 max)
    61.2 Tetryon Damage (0.34 DPS) to nearby targets
    30.6 Tetryon Damage to 2nd target in chain
    24.5 Tetryon Damage to 3rd target in chain

    The Space set ability is: Unstable Tetryon Lattice

    10 KM range, 3 min recharge
    to target: 5,292.7 Tetryon Damage
    5,292.7 Tetryon damage to foes within 5 KM of target
    shuts down weapon stabilizers for 60 seconds.

    The 1st ability does not work at all. The Icon is available but when activated it does nothing and does no damage to any targets. (I tested this in a private 1 vs 1 match)

    And the second ability also has no visual affect and does not appear to work either. Cryptic needs to look into this ASAP.
  • kaltoumkaltoum Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ajma420 wrote: »
    I'm not gonna lie, but I like flying escorts as they are unmatched in damage potential, but if you use an escort, please stay out of Crystalline Catastrophe Elite (CCE). I have gotten really frustrated with escort flyers since the super-buff of CCE. They get in, kill the tholians, start attacking the CE , die three or four times, and leave.

    The problem is, in every other STF, escorts are great because they just outkill enemies before they kill them, but that doesn't work for the CE. Now, could an escort with a total AP resist and survival build hold their own? Yea sure, but there are very, very few players who do. The fact is, in order to be effective in CCE, you need to be alive to shoot it.

    So Escorts, I still enjoy playing with you, but please stay out of CCE.

    I am sure people who use escort will stay out now because some random cool kid told them do so on forums. :rolleyes:
    Once upon a time in galaxy far far away......
  • fraghul2000fraghul2000 Member Posts: 1,590 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    completely mangle your tray every time you put it in, thus spending 5 minutes every battle to descramble your tray.

    I frequently change my normal TSS/HE Sci Boff for a TB/HE one before every CE and nothing gets mangled up. TSS just disappears, TB takes up one of the empty slots on my tray.
  • captaintrueheartcaptaintrueheart Member Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    lol... just curious how many players read the OP and thought... "Ok good sir, I'll no longer participate in CCE with my escort based solely upon your encouragement not too" :D
    =/\= ================================= =/\=
    Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
    U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
    =/\= ================================= =/\=
  • the1tiggletthe1tigglet Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    And the elitism begins. sigh

    this same thing is happening over in other games with massively imbalanced PVE systems as well. people demanding only certain classes of players to run dungeons.

    and now it's happening here. What more proof do you devs need in order to fix this problem?
  • platewearingbirdplatewearingbird Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Another issue with CCE is everytime a shard hits a ship and the small shards return to the Entity it buffs it and increases the Beam damage. I constantly see Escorts stitting still letting shards pound into them. You need to keep moving and in an Escort you can't broadside worth a darn. The OP has a point a beam boat Cruiser is much better for this event. I run the Nukara Console/Beam/Mine set and the Nukara Shield with all Tetryon beams. I just spam EPTE and run circles around it. Seems to work well. The shards cant catch me and I can keep a full broadside on it at all times. When it starts to power up I just hit evasive and get out of range.

    And speaking of the Nukara set. Its abilities make no since. One ability restores your weapons when they are knocked off line in 4 seconds. Whenever the Tholians have knocked my weapons off line it has never taken a full 4 seconds for them to come back online so this ability does what? (Nothing?) The second is an AOE attack that looks just like the tier 5 Nukara ability.

    The Rep ability is: Refracting Tetryon Cascade

    PBAoE Chain Tetryon Damage
    Release a cascading burst of Tetryon energy from your Deflector Dish at foes within 3km. The Tetryon Cascade will refract from initial targets to other nearby targets, dealing less damage with each jump. The Refracting Tetryon Cascade can jump to 2 additional targets. The charge can only jump 5km to the next target.
    WARNING: If the targets sensors are scrambled or otherwise confused when it is hit with the Tetryon Cascade, the charge may bounce back to you or your allies.
    Affects Foe (5 max)
    61.2 Tetryon Damage (0.34 DPS) to nearby targets
    30.6 Tetryon Damage to 2nd target in chain
    24.5 Tetryon Damage to 3rd target in chain

    The Space set ability is: Unstable Tetryon Lattice

    10 KM range, 3 min recharge
    to target: 5,292.7 Tetryon Damage
    5,292.7 Tetryon damage to foes within 5 KM of target
    shuts down weapon stabilizers for 60 seconds.

    The 1st ability does not work at all. The Icon is available but when activated it does nothing and does no damage to any targets. (I tested this in a private 1 vs 1 match)

    And the second ability also has no visual affect and does not appear to work either. Cryptic needs to look into this ASAP.

    With the tetryon cascade you should read it again.

    It says "hits a target with a tetryon beam within 3 km". THREE. It's a bouncing melee version of the tetryon lattice and isometric charge.

    If nothing's within 3 km of you it still fires and you waste the CD.
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