Escorts do not belong in CCE

ajma420

I'm not gonna lie, but I like flying escorts as they are unmatched in damage potential, but if you use an escort, please stay out of Crystalline Catastrophe Elite (CCE). I have gotten really frustrated with escort flyers since the super-buff of CCE. They get in, kill the tholians, start attacking the CE , die three or four times, and leave.

The problem is, in every other STF, escorts are great because they just outkill enemies before they kill them, but that doesn't work for the CE. Now, could an escort with a total AP resist and survival build hold their own? Yea sure, but there are very, very few players who do. The fact is, in order to be effective in CCE, you need to be alive to shoot it.

So Escorts, I still enjoy playing with you, but please stay out of CCE.

badvaio

Do you have a list of ships you think would be suitable for CCE ?

Please list weapon types, BO skills etc.

thlaylierah

Maybe they should FIX the CCE to accommodate the Escort style instead of blocking out a ship type.

ajma420

thlaylierah wrote: »

Maybe they should FIX the CCE to accommodate the Escort style instead of blocking out a ship type.

no, they shouldn't. The elite STFs have different levels of damage potential to be dealt by enemies.

in order of least damage dealt by enemies to most
ISE
KSE and CSE
HSE and CCE

Most of this is because of the # of battleship, dreadnought, and in CCE's case, capital class enemies.

and of course, higher enemy damage potential is bad news for low-hull ships

and as to your signature - this isnt a "I have a sandwich so why are you hungry" post, its a "If you are a vegetarian, why did you order a burger" post.

rattler2

Asking for Escorts to not take part effectively cuts off... 50%-75% of the game's population at least. I'd take an Escort in and fight, but I would stay and continue to fight. Knowing how to fly an Escort is key to survival. But some people decide that More Dakka is better for survival as "what is already dead can't kill you". Me... I try and maintain a more balanced setup.

hevach

If they're dying to the CE to the point that they're giving up, that's either their own fault, or because nobody even tries to remove the stacking buffs - it's entirely survivable as long as the buffs aren't piling up and you don't try to park and shoot at close range.

And it's probably the buff, because in every run I've done, normal or elite, I've only once seen somebody other than me helping on that. And even with a power slot given over to tachyon beam my average deaths per run in CCE is less than 1, and most of my deaths are to the shockwave, not the matter conversion beam.

ajma420

badvaio wrote: »

Do you have a list of ships you think would be suitable for CCE ?

Please list weapon types, BO skills etc.

I don't have all day to list ships. but I will say that most any heavy cruiser or carrier should be fine. I personally used the Falchion Dreadnought and got 1st and 2nd place my last two attempts.

For weapons, DHCs are great as the CE doesn't move after part 1. DBBs are also good for those who can't use DHCs. I ran a 6 single beam setup once, but thats not that great.

BOff powers - Tac - focus on damage spikes, not spread, also, you NEED TT
Eng - RSP, EPtS, APtS, etc. go all heal, Aceton beam is very useful too
Sci - TSS, HE, TBR - for the shards

badvaio

Any colour preference ?

thlaylierah

This is like saying, "No Cool Kids Allowed."

krenzik

Actually, if people went in and had some vague clue what to do or take advice from those who do without pitching a SWOTOR-caliber fit or just ragequitting, that would make it a lot easier no matter what you flew.

I've taken my Caitian in his temporal destroyer and my alien tac in her defiant and managed to not only live but contribute significantly to the effort. It's not the ship it's the person flying it.

fraghul2000

ajma420 wrote: »

I'm not gonna lie, but I like flying escorts as they are unmatched in damage potential, but if you use an escort, please stay out of Crystalline Catastrophe Elite (CCE). I have gotten really frustrated with escort flyers since the super-buff of CCE. They get in, kill the tholians, start attacking the CE , die three or four times, and leave.

The problem is, in every other STF, escorts are great because they just outkill enemies before they kill them, but that doesn't work for the CE. Now, could an escort with a total AP resist and survival build hold their own? Yea sure, but there are very, very few players who do. The fact is, in order to be effective in CCE, you need to be alive to shoot it.

So Escorts, I still enjoy playing with you, but please stay out of CCE.

So in turn any cruisers, carriers and most science ships stay out of vault: ensnared, the STFs and Azure Nebula? Considering that all that's needed in there are damage, damage, a bit of speed and maneuverability and more damage, and the above mentioned are therefore a drag on the group and should stay out as well.

Oh, and please don't join any of the small craft events anymore, if you plan on bringing a Tal'kyr, runabout, kestrel, yacht, toron or shuttlecraft/shuttlepod.

BOff powers - Tac - focus on damage spikes, not spread, also, you NEED TT
Eng - RSP, EPtS, APtS, etc. go all heal, Aceton beam is very useful too
Sci - TSS, HE, TBR - for the shards

Nothing to reduce dmg stacks? Please don't join CEE or CE anymore.

:rolleyes:

thlaylierah

CCE stands for "Crystal Catastrophe Elite" where "Elite" is synonymous with "Escort."

baelogventure

Well, he DID list Aceton Beam, which is a way to strip them...

Anyway, you do need a balanced team in CCE, Cruisers to help soak damage, heal others, and possibly Debuff, Sci Vessels to do some straight out debuffing, use TBRs for shards, and possibly heal, and Escorts to actually get through the content in a decent time, as well as possibly debuff and TBR the Shards

ruminate00

One or two ships spamming tac beam 1 can bottom out the entity's damage buff. Any ship can use tac beam 1.

Torpedo boats are the best against the entity because it has skyhigh energy resists and no kinetic resistance. Guess which ship type makes the best torpedo boats?

The problem isn't escorts. The problem is most people have no idea how the Crystalline Entity works.

fraghul2000

Well, he DID list Aceton Beam, which is a way to strip them...

Aceton just reduces dmg output and does a tiny, tiny bit of dot. Tachyon, CPB, Tykens Rift and Syphon reduce the stacks.

aexrael

ajma420 wrote: »

BOff powers - Tac - focus on damage spikes, not spread, also, you NEED TT
Eng - RSP, EPtS, APtS, etc. go all heal, Aceton beam is very useful too
Sci - TSS, HE, TBR - for the shards

You're annoyed with people going pop in CCE, but fail to recommend any abilities which cleanses it's damage stacks, the sole source of it's massive damage output.

Perhaps you would benefit from reading this Tactical Analysis: Crystalline Catastrophe.

hypl

I fly an escort, and I will not stay out of Elite CCE because you tell me to. You have no authority to dictate how I should play this game and what content I can and cannot play.

You're the one who chooses to PUG with randoms, you deal with the consequences of that choice. You want an escort-free game? Go find a fleet or make some friends and have your own little private party.

alarikun

ajma420 wrote: »

I'm not gonna lie, but I like flying escorts as they are unmatched in damage potential, but if you use an escort, please stay out of Crystalline Catastrophe Elite (CCE). I have gotten really frustrated with escort flyers since the super-buff of CCE. They get in, kill the tholians, start attacking the CE , die three or four times, and leave.

The problem is, in every other STF, escorts are great because they just outkill enemies before they kill them, but that doesn't work for the CE. Now, could an escort with a total AP resist and survival build hold their own? Yea sure, but there are very, very few players who do. The fact is, in order to be effective in CCE, you need to be alive to shoot it.

So Escorts, I still enjoy playing with you, but please stay out of CCE.

Uhh, no? I'll join CCE if I please, and I fly escorts all the time.

HOWEVER, I'll give you this. I do not leave. Unless it comes to the point of half or less people staying in the STF/Event, I will stick around.

lucianazeta

ajma420 wrote: »

I'm not gonna lie, but I like flying escorts as they are unmatched in damage potential, but if you use an escort, please stay out of Crystalline Catastrophe Elite (CCE). I have gotten really frustrated with escort flyers since the super-buff of CCE. They get in, kill the tholians, start attacking the CE , die three or four times, and leave.

The problem is, in every other STF, escorts are great because they just outkill enemies before they kill them, but that doesn't work for the CE. Now, could an escort with a total AP resist and survival build hold their own? Yea sure, but there are very, very few players who do. The fact is, in order to be effective in CCE, you need to be alive to shoot it.

So Escorts, I still enjoy playing with you, but please stay out of CCE.

Then I kindly ask that everything but escorts kindly stays the **** out of my ESTF's.

/sarcasm

platewearingbird

Cool, you go have your cruise and sci-ship-only party, call me in an hour and tell me what % you're stuck on.

Tac officer, both with fleet escort and temporal escort, I can survive hits from a CE with stacks over 150 because morons like you either:

A) refuse to step in in your Cruiser and soak a few shots so the escorts can do something other than dip in and out of weapon range waiting for cooldowns.

refuse to strip the stacks

or C) think you can eat phase-change shockwaves and cower just outside 10m the rest of the game after it kills you (seen this WAY too many times to count)

If anything cruisers should stay out of CC:E because they refuse to do what their ships are built for (taking hits) and then ***** at escorts for pulling double-duty (or triple-duty, clearing stacks) and getting fed up.

You're really gonna cry about this? People cry that escorts do EVERYTHING, and then cry when escorts aren't doing everything.

futurepastnow

Baloney. When I do CCE in my heavy escort carrier, I equip a cheapo blue-quality Delta Flyer hangar and set them to attack my target. They nail the Entity with a tachyon beam every few seconds. If you don't understand why that matters, I'm not going to explain it to you.

hevach

ajma420 wrote: »

If anything cruisers should stay out of CC:E because they refuse to do what their ships are built for (taking hits) and then ***** at escorts for pulling double-duty (or triple-duty, clearing stacks) and getting fed up.

You can't tank an enemy that targets randomly. Aside from the Tholians, everything in the mission has to be avoided or controlled, not tanked - matter conversion beam targets randomly, and while large shards sort of obey threat but need to be controlled or killed, tanking them kind of defeats the point of trying. No cookie for you.

You're really gonna cry about this? People cry that escorts do EVERYTHING, and then cry when escorts aren't doing everything.

Ok, ok, you can have ONE cookie. This made me smile.

platewearingbird

hevach wrote: »

You can't tank an enemy that targets randomly. Aside from the Tholians, everything in the mission has to be avoided or controlled, not tanked. No cookie for you.

You haven't been at the CCEs I've seen.

By "tanking", I mean being in weapons range to potentially take a hit.

Constantly I see the same ships getting hit (including me) 5, 6, 7 times in a row while perfectly healthy cruisers are chilling outside 10m, waiting for the space-bus.

fraghul2000

You can't tank an enemy that targets randomly. Aside from the Tholians, everything in the mission has to be avoided or controlled, not tanked - matter conversion beam targets randomly, and while large shards sort of obey threat but need to be controlled or killed, tanking them kind of defeats the point of trying. No cookie for you.

Baloney. When I do CCE in my heavy escort carrier, I equip a cheapo blue-quality Delta Flyer hangar and set them to attack my target. They nail the Entity with a tachyon beam every few seconds. If you don't understand why that matters, I'm not going to explain it to you.

You two just proved that there is hope. Thank you.

questerius

It is true that CCE is easier with a science vessel or science character, but it can still be done with escorts.

Something easy like a full breen set or a klingon with AA. Or the plasmonic leech.. These are just a few of the possible tricks

topset

Nonsense.

I've run CEE with 10 escorts several times with plenty of success. It's just not particularly easy to do in a pug full of escorts.

So long as you have a mobius or two, a couple of copies of tykens rift, gravity well and tachyon beam you're going to be fine. Plenty of escorts have Lt.Com Sci or Uni.

Just stop pugging and find groups and stop pissing on escorts IMO

rmy1081

When I do CCE, I either take an Atrox, Armatage or a Vesta. The Delta Flyers make it almost trivial. Then, honestly, I don't care what anyone else brings as long as they can do damage.

To the OP, one can mitigate damage in almost any ship, as long as the CE doesn't recrystallize too much, but that's what the Delta Flyers are for

ajma420

The CE puts out almost 15k dps w/ AP BFAW in stage 3...

Uhhh... you escorts couldn't stay in the fight long enough to scratch it, but thats not my problem, its the losers who leave cause they die after 2 seconds. I had a team - me in my JH dread and 4 tac escorts and no matter how many heals i threw out, there where ALWAYS at least 2 dead at a time, while I was dropping RSPs every 30 seconds, never died, and got first - even after three of them left in stage 3.

like I said - if any of you actually read the post - which you never do - if you can stay alive to contribute, I couldn't care less, but most of the escorts can't

Ohh and dont worry about removing the damage buffs, I use tachyon beam and aceton beam i just neglected to list the former

hevach

I read your entire post. Most of the people in the thread clearly did, the whole theme of discussion is that escorts don't need any of what you claim they do to survive the encounter.

Since you've chosen to give away that you're in a JHDC, it's worth pointing out that what it takes for an escort to survive is basically the same that you need - your higher health and better shields will make you better able to avoid a heavily buffed matter conversion beam (which shouldn't be happening) or a shockwave (which the escort can easily avoid), but over the length of the fight and the level of incoming damage, the ability to mitigate damage and replenish health outweighs your maximum health, the health can only delay the inevitable if you cannot do these things.

And in those departments, you're playing with the same deck as a great many escorts.

vnexus

Just sounds like sucky ill-equipped players to me.

Also, most ppl don't read the guide & don't gear their ship "right".

At the very least load a BOFF up with Tachyon Beam so the thing won't self Buff to x87 or higher as in one fight I seen. I was the only ship with Tachyon barely keeping it weak.

I had to take out some Tholians on me, went baq to the CE & it was at x110. I was the only one debuffing the thing.

-V

ajma420

hevach wrote: »

I read your entire post. Most of the people in the thread clearly did, the whole theme of discussion is that escorts don't need any of what you claim they do to survive the encounter.

Since you've chosen to give away that you're in a JHDC, it's worth pointing out that what it takes for an escort to survive is basically the same that you need - your higher health and better shields will make you better able to avoid a heavily buffed matter conversion beam (which shouldn't be happening) or a shockwave (which the escort can easily avoid), but over the length of the fight and the level of incoming damage, the ability to mitigate damage and replenish health outweighs your maximum health, the health can only delay the inevitable if you cannot do these things.

And in those departments, you're playing with the same deck as a great many escorts.

you have a valid point, but isnt it better to have both a large hull AND damage mitigation/healing? The JHDC can do both... consider the fact that the JHDC has a Lt. Cmdr eng and a universal which I use for science

RSP1, APtS1, RSP2 - (all shield/ hull heal)
HE1 (heal)....TachB1, TyR1 (debuffs)
+ subsystem targeting

and in the end, the differences you listed - " your higher health and better shields will make you better able to avoid a heavily buffed matter conversion beam (which shouldn't be happening) or a shockwave - are really what separate the shooting from the 'sploded