Star Trek follows the many world interpretation. In one universe, the Gorn join up with the Federation and Species 8472 is not causing trouble. In another universe, the Gorn join up with the Klingon Empire after being defeated by them from Undine interfering with their culture.
Star Trek follows the many world interpretation. In one universe, the Gorn join up with the Federation and Species 8472 is not causing trouble. In another universe, the Gorn join up with the Klingon Empire after being defeated by them from Undine interfering with their culture.
Its just annoying... Gonr dont have Cannon really... and I hate this one.... lol
R'tolves Will Spread Thier Peace and Will Prevail Over the Hostiles Who Dare Hurt Such A Isolationist Consitutional Monarchy!
It's ironic really. When STO was in Beta and then launched, posters were declaring Memory Alpha as THE Star Trek resource. Even over that of the officially published Star Trek Encyclopedia's. Despite the site being a fan administered website. The cartoon wasn't canon. So on and so forth. I've been snickering to myself about this for year's.
Within STO's first year of live play, Memory Alpha subtly softened it's presentation. Memory Beta information gradually began appearing. Almost copy/pasted in some examples that I compared. The site finally carried details from The Animated Series. I pointed this out in these forums. But the same poster's never acknowledged the evolution. :rolleyes: While Memory Alpha hasn't yet rendered Memory Beta redundant, I see a complete merge between the two in their collective futures.
Anyway... as pointed out early in this thread the consideration for how to flesh out the KDF trumped how the novel continuity handled the Gorn. This was a creative decision. Kestral can - and does - borrow from the novel continuities as it seems to work with what STO is doing. If one chooses to listen to her latest audio interview with the G & T Show, Kestral does confirm this.
Sometimes STO is going to take a path not taken elsewhere to be original. But don't be surprised when the soft-canon continuity points appear in our our soft-canon game continuity.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
While I was conducting research for my own Gorn characters (and compiling that research in this thread /shamlessplug) the inconsistencies between soft-canon sources made my head spin. The worst offender was that Titan/Typhon Pact novel.
One thing I took away though is that the Gorn are - as a species - highly pragmatic. They are not above forming alliances of convenience and turning on their friends when it suits their purposes.
So it's perfectly within reason for them to be allied or at least have a non-aggression pact with the Federation for many years, then turn around and join the Typhon Pact (even though that didn't exist in STO's timeline) Or to fight a decades-long war with the Klingons and then turn around and throw their whole weight into the KDF.
The Gorn do what's best for themselves - individually and corporately. Right now, that means being a willing member state of the Klingon Empire.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Memory beta is for non canon lore. Memory alpha is for canon lore.
The game follow heavily the canon lore, the one from the TV shows and movies. When they lack informations, they use some others source (book, comics...), like the Romulan language or the Vesta.
I don't really like having so many different races as part of the Klingon Empire. The Klingon tend to be quite xenophobic when it comes to their own Empire. They can respect strength and honor, they may ally with you, but it's something else when it comes to join them.
If this were a more canon-like Klingon Empire, those other species would be kept at Duty Officer status. Really. I think only Klingons are allowed to hold officer status, including command of starships. At best, subservient species are used for menial labor, specialist tasks, and possibly disruptor fodder on the ground (the Gorn would be good for that). The Klingon Empire conquers planets and civilizations to obtain their resources and use them to strengthen the Empire. It's an EMPIRE, one ruled by Klingons.
I suppose having subservient civilizations hold somewhat more important posts in society is okay. . .but having them be seemingly equal with Klingons (commanding ships and occasionally sending out orders/missions) is probably a little much.
This is a well known fact in Starfleet Command and that ges with the Tholians as well.I guess Aradillow Design Bureau and Taldren can do thier research.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
How did you get that gorn forum pictue the borg one!
If you are assimilated by the Borg...say, during a ground STF...you will have the movie/show-style fisheye visual from your character's Borgified point of view, and your allies will see you as an assimilated...whatever. So, if you are Gorn, you become an assimilated Gorn, complete with the look.
Also, further proof that there might be some Gorn allied with the Federation:
The truth is, that Gorn has been secretly envolved with Earth, and humanity, long before humans became a space faring species.
Einstein said, that aliens do exist and bewteen themselves they speak hungarian. Indeed many hungarian scientists have been involved in crucial discoveries of the XXth century.
The german name of Hungary is Ungarn, what is really Un-Garn, and the latter word conceals the origin of this nation. The reptilians the conspiracy theories talk about are actually the decsendants of hungarians who according to a legend are descendants of Chawba (son of Attila), who led his nation on a star trek. Yes, in fact Star Trek is born out of this subconscious knowledge of certain authors, and in fact it serves the conscious but hidden goals of under cover Gorn agents.
In short, is not that the federation or humans are allied by the Gorn, but they are secretly ruled by them ... I mean, us.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
Since you referenced books and comics, how about the Typhon Pact? In those books, the Gorn are allied with the Romulans, Breen, Tholians, Tzenkethi, and Kenshia.
The truth is though, that tye Gorn are allied with neither. WE ARE GORN!! WE WILL ONCE AGAIN CLAIM OUR ANCESTRAL TERRITORIES!!!!!
If you are assimilated by the Borg...say, during a ground STF...you will have the movie/show-style fisheye visual from your character's Borgified point of view, and your allies will see you as an assimilated...whatever. So, if you are Gorn, you become an assimilated Gorn, complete with the look.
Also, further proof that there might be some Gorn allied with the Federation:
I admit, if I had the choice? I would be a Gorn allied with the Federation in a instant. Not because they are Cryptics golden boy and main cash flow, but because I want to be a ambassodor and use diplomacy. I really really do.
The truth is, that Gorn has been secretly envolved with Earth, and humanity, long before humans became a space faring species.
Einstein said, that aliens do exist and bewteen themselves they speak hungarian. Indeed many hungarian scientists have been involved in crucial discoveries of the XXth century.
The german name of Hungary is Ungarn, what is really Un-Garn, and the latter word conceals the origin of this nation. The reptilians the conspiracy theories talk about are actually the decsendants of hungarians who according to a legend are descendants of Chawba (son of Attila), who led his nation on a star trek. Yes, in fact Star Trek is born out of this subconscious knowledge of certain authors, and in fact it serves the conscious but hidden goals of under cover Gorn agents.
In short, is not that the federation or humans are allied by the Gorn, but they are secretly ruled by them ... I mean, us.
This is great...are you actually Erich von Daeniken in disguise?
Since you referenced books and comics, how about the Typhon Pact? In those books, the Gorn are allied with the Romulans, Breen, Tholians, Tzenkethi, and Kenshia.
The truth is though, that tye Gorn are allied with neither. WE ARE GORN!! WE WILL ONCE AGAIN CLAIM OUR ANCESTRAL TERRITORIES!!!!!
PRAISE S'YAHAZAH! SPEAK IT BROTHER! (lol)
R'tolves Will Spread Thier Peace and Will Prevail Over the Hostiles Who Dare Hurt Such A Isolationist Consitutional Monarchy!
I admit, if I had the choice? I would be a Gorn allied with the Federation in a instant. Not because they are Cryptics golden boy and main cash flow, but because I want to be a ambassodor and use diplomacy. I really really do.
Hey, that whats this post is about after all... just freedom of choice of faction with races... cause like I said... just because your main facton is "allied" doesnt mean you can rebel against it AND OR be affiliated with another faction. (OMG *lightbulb* TAL SHIAR GORN!)
R'tolves Will Spread Thier Peace and Will Prevail Over the Hostiles Who Dare Hurt Such A Isolationist Consitutional Monarchy!
Federation-Gorn relations were described, in the Star Trek Encyclopedia, as "cordial" during the 2370s. While some references tell us that there was a settlement reached over the Cestus colony, there is no specific evidence from any canon source stating how friendly the Federation and the Hegemony might have become.
In the novel Articles of the Federation one of the characters says that the crew of the USS Enterprise convinced the Gorn to join the Federation Alliance and fight against the Dominion in the war. This is from the graphic novel The Gorn Crisis by Kevin J. Anderson and illustrated by Igor Kordey. But in the game manual for Star Trek: Bridge Commander, it is stated that the Gorn sided with the Dominion. The Star Trek: Destiny novel Mere Mortals by David Mack establishes that the Gorn Hegemony has an embassy to the Federation located in Berlin and its head of government is the Gorn Imperator. In A Singular Destiny, the Gorn ally themselves with the Romulan Star Empire, the Tholians, and others antagonistic towards the Federation and Klingons.
In Star Trek Online, by the early 25th century, the Klingons have conquered the Hegemony and absorbed the Gorn into the Empire. The storyline of the game also states that a monarch, King Slathis, is the head of the government.
So... the Gorn by Cannon is confusing really... but it leads more to being either foes with the Empire and Federation and allied with other factions in the universe like Dominion and Tholian. Therefore, Gorn are obsolete. STO Cannon is MUCH different from regular ones. MANY Different Cannons. Which one do you like? I personally like the Dominion and Tholian Alliance the most.
"Canon" does not mean what you apparently think it does. There is only one canon for Star Trek, which consists of the television series (all of them) and the movies (all of them), probably at least some of STO, and little if anything else. From Merriam-Webster:
Canon
3 [Middle English, from Late Latin, from Latin, standard]
a : an authoritative list of books accepted as Holy Scripture
b : the authentic works of a writer
c : a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works
In this case, the meaning is 3c: a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works. The reason comic books, novels, fan-made videos, etc, are NOT canon is because they are, to be brief, wildly inconsistent with each other and not always consistent with canon.
But fwiw, I wouldn't worry too much about being allied with the Klingons:
For the year 2394, "The Path to 2409" says:
Chancellor J'mpok of the Klingon High Council moves to cement his position by launch the negotiations with Melani D'ian of the Orion Syndicate into high gear.
"Martok was interested in the secrets she claimed to offer, but he knew that any agreement with the Syndicate would be difficult," said Tag Morkek, a political analyst for the Tellar News Service who specializes in Klingon affairs. "The Emerald Empress is slippery. Melani's idea of 'truth' can change from minute to minute.
"Still, J'mpok's House is weak. He's going to need support if he wants to stay in power." Federation informants inside the Klingon Empire say that the House of J'mpok, which is one of the smallest of the Great Houses, is being pressured by the House of Martok and its allies. J'mpok's rapid rise to the Chancellorship has improved the House's prospects, but it lacks resources and ships and its lands in the Pheben system are poor.
"The only thing keeping the House of Martok from declaring open war is Drax," said one anonymous source. "Once he recovers from his wounds, it's only a matter of time." When that happens, however, J'mpok may have the Orion Syndicate fighting at his side. On Stardate 71283.12, Melani D'ian meets J'mpok in person on Ter'jas Mor. After four days of negotiations, the two agree to sign a non-aggression and mutual defense pact.
In exchange for the Syndicate's allegiance, the Klingon Empire will provide them with ships and weapons. In addition, Melani D'ian further agreed to share technology and information with the Klingons in exchange for a planet in Klingon space that the Orions can rule as a vassal state.
"Having access to the Syndicate information network could be a huge advantage for the Empire," Tag said. "Klingon Intelligence is good, but they're not everywhere like the Syndicate is."
The Federation Council condemns the new alliance as support for criminals, and Starfleet Command vows to continue pursuing and shutting down Syndicate operations in Federation space. "There's nothing in the Khitomer Accords that say we need to stand by and let allies of the Klingons sell illegal substances, raid our commercial transports and traffic in restricted technology."
In fact, reviews of Starfleet reports show that Syndicate traffic has increased significantly since Melani D'ian seized control.
Melani has ruthlessly purged anyone she deems "untrustworthy," and fused the remaining Orions into a unified organization that answers to her alone.
"She's dangerous," admitted Admiral Jorel Quinn on an episode of the Federation News Service program Illuminating the City of Light. "Before, the Syndicate was controllable because there were multiple leaders competing for influence and power. Now Starfleet Command has to dedicate more resources to keeping them in check."
As a gift to celebrate their new alliance, Melani sends 1,500 Orion women to be servants in the Great Houses on Qo'noS.
Melani herself settles into an estate on Ter'jas Mor, and the remaining Orions still on the Orion homeworld make plans to emigrate by the end of 2394.
What is important to note in this plethora of information is this bit:
"As a gift to celebrate their new alliance, Melani sends 1,500 Orion women to be servants in the Great Houses on Qo'noS."
This is important to note due to the following CANONICAL information:
In 2154 some Enterprise crewmembers wound up as commodities themselves at a processing station on Verex III. When Captain Archer expressed surprise that the Orions would sell their own kind, Arik Soong told him the females were "known for their extreme appetites, their innate skills". The Verex market's Orion slaver had even sold his last wife. (ENT: "Borderland")
Later that year the secret of the Orion slave girls' irresistiblity was discovered when the slave sisters Navaar, D'Nesh, and Maras were presented to Captain Archer, ostensibly to improve relations between Earth and the Orions. Their presence became a major distraction to the crew of the Enterprise due ? it turned out ? to the powerful pheromones which they were releasing. It was revealed that Orion females were not enslaved at all, but rather the enslavers, and the sisters were active agents in a plot to capture the Enterprise for their Syndicate. (ENT: "Bound")
The information I have presented really should result in an inescapable conclusion (if one is capable of Logic, and no, I don't mean Vulcan non-violent/anti-emotion mysticism) and really should be obvious enough as to not require me to state the ONLY logical conclusion to be derived from the information: the Klingon Empire is now under the control of the Orions.
Who doesn't like Orions? Okay, maybe some Boy Scout types in the Federation's Starfleet, but when has anyone ever paid any attention to them?
Comments
Its just annoying... Gonr dont have Cannon really... and I hate this one.... lol
Say that to the non canon topic! They involved meridor in STO (LOL) So why not other factions?!!?!?
Within STO's first year of live play, Memory Alpha subtly softened it's presentation. Memory Beta information gradually began appearing. Almost copy/pasted in some examples that I compared. The site finally carried details from The Animated Series. I pointed this out in these forums. But the same poster's never acknowledged the evolution. :rolleyes: While Memory Alpha hasn't yet rendered Memory Beta redundant, I see a complete merge between the two in their collective futures.
Anyway... as pointed out early in this thread the consideration for how to flesh out the KDF trumped how the novel continuity handled the Gorn. This was a creative decision. Kestral can - and does - borrow from the novel continuities as it seems to work with what STO is doing. If one chooses to listen to her latest audio interview with the G & T Show, Kestral does confirm this.
Sometimes STO is going to take a path not taken elsewhere to be original. But don't be surprised when the soft-canon continuity points appear in our our soft-canon game continuity.
One thing I took away though is that the Gorn are - as a species - highly pragmatic. They are not above forming alliances of convenience and turning on their friends when it suits their purposes.
So it's perfectly within reason for them to be allied or at least have a non-aggression pact with the Federation for many years, then turn around and join the Typhon Pact (even though that didn't exist in STO's timeline) Or to fight a decades-long war with the Klingons and then turn around and throw their whole weight into the KDF.
The Gorn do what's best for themselves - individually and corporately. Right now, that means being a willing member state of the Klingon Empire.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
If this were a more canon-like Klingon Empire, those other species would be kept at Duty Officer status. Really. I think only Klingons are allowed to hold officer status, including command of starships. At best, subservient species are used for menial labor, specialist tasks, and possibly disruptor fodder on the ground (the Gorn would be good for that). The Klingon Empire conquers planets and civilizations to obtain their resources and use them to strengthen the Empire. It's an EMPIRE, one ruled by Klingons.
I suppose having subservient civilizations hold somewhat more important posts in society is okay. . .but having them be seemingly equal with Klingons (commanding ships and occasionally sending out orders/missions) is probably a little much.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
If you are assimilated by the Borg...say, during a ground STF...you will have the movie/show-style fisheye visual from your character's Borgified point of view, and your allies will see you as an assimilated...whatever. So, if you are Gorn, you become an assimilated Gorn, complete with the look.
Also, further proof that there might be some Gorn allied with the Federation:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/sturmgreif/screenshot_2013-07-04-20-34-17_zps51c3ec74.jpg
^ Ambassador S'Lenxz, during a recent visit to Earth Spacedock.
The truth is, that Gorn has been secretly envolved with Earth, and humanity, long before humans became a space faring species.
Einstein said, that aliens do exist and bewteen themselves they speak hungarian. Indeed many hungarian scientists have been involved in crucial discoveries of the XXth century.
The german name of Hungary is Ungarn, what is really Un-Garn, and the latter word conceals the origin of this nation. The reptilians the conspiracy theories talk about are actually the decsendants of hungarians who according to a legend are descendants of Chawba (son of Attila), who led his nation on a star trek. Yes, in fact Star Trek is born out of this subconscious knowledge of certain authors, and in fact it serves the conscious but hidden goals of under cover Gorn agents.
In short, is not that the federation or humans are allied by the Gorn, but they are secretly ruled by them ... I mean, us.
The truth is though, that tye Gorn are allied with neither. WE ARE GORN!! WE WILL ONCE AGAIN CLAIM OUR ANCESTRAL TERRITORIES!!!!!
I hate to admit this, but I would give a lot to have a outfit as snazzy as his.
This is great...are you actually Erich von Daeniken in disguise?
Sometimes on STF's you get to see yourslef Aassimilated... take Screenshot and cut the face and WHAM
PRAISE S'YAHAZAH! SPEAK IT BROTHER! (lol)
Yes! Kirk proved conclusively that Gorn and cannon do not mix.
Hey, that whats this post is about after all... just freedom of choice of faction with races... cause like I said... just because your main facton is "allied" doesnt mean you can rebel against it AND OR be affiliated with another faction. (OMG *lightbulb* TAL SHIAR GORN!)
"Canon" does not mean what you apparently think it does. There is only one canon for Star Trek, which consists of the television series (all of them) and the movies (all of them), probably at least some of STO, and little if anything else. From Merriam-Webster:
Canon
3 [Middle English, from Late Latin, from Latin, standard]
a : an authoritative list of books accepted as Holy Scripture
b : the authentic works of a writer
c : a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works
In this case, the meaning is 3c: a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works. The reason comic books, novels, fan-made videos, etc, are NOT canon is because they are, to be brief, wildly inconsistent with each other and not always consistent with canon.
But fwiw, I wouldn't worry too much about being allied with the Klingons:
For the year 2394, "The Path to 2409" says:
What is important to note in this plethora of information is this bit:
"As a gift to celebrate their new alliance, Melani sends 1,500 Orion women to be servants in the Great Houses on Qo'noS."
This is important to note due to the following CANONICAL information:
-- Source
The information I have presented really should result in an inescapable conclusion (if one is capable of Logic, and no, I don't mean Vulcan non-violent/anti-emotion mysticism) and really should be obvious enough as to not require me to state the ONLY logical conclusion to be derived from the information: the Klingon Empire is now under the control of the Orions.
Who doesn't like Orions? Okay, maybe some Boy Scout types in the Federation's Starfleet, but when has anyone ever paid any attention to them?