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NEWS FLASH: Gorn are Allies With The Federation!
blagorm
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NOTE: Info Will Be Coverted From Wiki Beta To Alpha, Alpha Info Will Be Posted On Second Page
After hearing all of this contradictory things with the Romulans and weaponry etc etc, I happened to scroll across something that proves the Gorn are allied with the Federation! Let me explain why and why they aren't with the KDF.
WHY: As of Cestus III and beyond, Memory Beta states (with links also on the page):
The Gorn made first contact with the Federation in 2267 when a Gorn vessel attacked a Human colony on Cestus III interpreting the colonization as in invasion into Gorn Space. The vessel was pursued by the USS Enterprise until the Metrons, a non-corporeal species intervened and eventually awarded the planet to the Federation. (TOS episode: "Arena")
A period of strained but generally peaceful relations followed. (TOS novel: Dreadnought!; TOS comic: "Dying of the Light"; TOS video game: Starfleet Command II)
In 2374, after decades of peaceful relations with the Federation, the Gorn government was toppled by a coup d'etat, and a new offensive was launched against Cestus III. A halt to these hostilities was negotiated by the crew of the USS Enterprise-E, who also managed to persuade the Gorn to join the Federation Alliance in the war against the Dominion. (TNG comic: "The Gorn Crisis") ....
While interaction between Humans and Gorn remains limited, they now work together on Cestus III, and Federation xenologists hotly debate what they observe.
By 2379, the Gorn Hegemony had established normal diplomatic relations with the Federation, and even maintained a diplomatic mission on Earth. The Gorn Ambassador to the United Federation of Planets that year was Zogozin, whom Federation President Min Zife of Bolarus found very intimidating. (TNG novel: A Time to Heal)
In the 24th century, the Gorn Alliance consisted of many peace loving clans that maintained cordial relations with the Federation. However, equally, they were opposed by rival militant patriarchies that viewed a continued alliance with the Federation Grand Alliance as being both demeaning as well as restrictive. This led to rival factions battling one another for power over the Gorn government across years and even led to renegade Gorn attacking Federation targets in order to provoke a war between the two. However, many of the rogue Gorn were destroyed though continued Federation presence within Gorn space had provoked an irritated reaction from what few rebels remained. (FASA RPG module: Star Trek: The Next Generation Officer's Manual) "
As you can see... It is pretty much an ally with some rebles groups that were taken care of.
WHY NOT KDF?: Not Offically Canon... As Above, Unless they are Rebels, They Wont Attack the Federation. Not saying they are enimies, but that also includes the fact that allying in them makes them out of the Federation.
Also, the coup d'etat that the Gorn Hegemony have was BY GORN REBLES, and by looking at the dates, you MIXED GORN REBLES with UNDINE! :O
Shame....
Comment Below! Are Gorn KDF or FED?
After hearing all of this contradictory things with the Romulans and weaponry etc etc, I happened to scroll across something that proves the Gorn are allied with the Federation! Let me explain why and why they aren't with the KDF.
WHY: As of Cestus III and beyond, Memory Beta states (with links also on the page):
The Gorn made first contact with the Federation in 2267 when a Gorn vessel attacked a Human colony on Cestus III interpreting the colonization as in invasion into Gorn Space. The vessel was pursued by the USS Enterprise until the Metrons, a non-corporeal species intervened and eventually awarded the planet to the Federation. (TOS episode: "Arena")
A period of strained but generally peaceful relations followed. (TOS novel: Dreadnought!; TOS comic: "Dying of the Light"; TOS video game: Starfleet Command II)
In 2374, after decades of peaceful relations with the Federation, the Gorn government was toppled by a coup d'etat, and a new offensive was launched against Cestus III. A halt to these hostilities was negotiated by the crew of the USS Enterprise-E, who also managed to persuade the Gorn to join the Federation Alliance in the war against the Dominion. (TNG comic: "The Gorn Crisis") ....
While interaction between Humans and Gorn remains limited, they now work together on Cestus III, and Federation xenologists hotly debate what they observe.
By 2379, the Gorn Hegemony had established normal diplomatic relations with the Federation, and even maintained a diplomatic mission on Earth. The Gorn Ambassador to the United Federation of Planets that year was Zogozin, whom Federation President Min Zife of Bolarus found very intimidating. (TNG novel: A Time to Heal)
In the 24th century, the Gorn Alliance consisted of many peace loving clans that maintained cordial relations with the Federation. However, equally, they were opposed by rival militant patriarchies that viewed a continued alliance with the Federation Grand Alliance as being both demeaning as well as restrictive. This led to rival factions battling one another for power over the Gorn government across years and even led to renegade Gorn attacking Federation targets in order to provoke a war between the two. However, many of the rogue Gorn were destroyed though continued Federation presence within Gorn space had provoked an irritated reaction from what few rebels remained. (FASA RPG module: Star Trek: The Next Generation Officer's Manual) "
As you can see... It is pretty much an ally with some rebles groups that were taken care of.
WHY NOT KDF?: Not Offically Canon... As Above, Unless they are Rebels, They Wont Attack the Federation. Not saying they are enimies, but that also includes the fact that allying in them makes them out of the Federation.
Also, the coup d'etat that the Gorn Hegemony have was BY GORN REBLES, and by looking at the dates, you MIXED GORN REBLES with UNDINE! :O
Shame....
Comment Below! Are Gorn KDF or FED?
R'tolves Will Spread Thier Peace and Will Prevail Over the Hostiles Who Dare Hurt Such A Isolationist Consitutional Monarchy!
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Post edited by blagorm on
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Comments
The Federation in it's spirit of fairplay decided to give the KDF the Gorn.
LOL... what horrible choice to lead a strong nation over... also the fact that again, the Empire's Gorn-Klingon War is not true, cause there was no undine infiltration, just a Rebel coup d'eat
The comic books aren't cannon, the novels aren't cannon, and fasa rpg products are cannon.
What is cannon movies, tv series, and in game sto's own lore.
Example in the novels the borg are no longer a threat. Yet in game the borg are a major enemy.
e
According to one source they're from three different planets but are genetically related (SFB/SFB storyline) according to another they're from one planet.
According to SFB/SFB the Gorn have fought half a dozen wars against the Romulans who are their natural enemy...some before the Gorn ever met the Federation.
According to the FASA stuff they hadn't heard about the Romulans until after they met the Federation.
Also, while the Gorn Crisis comic states the Gorn sided against the Dominion, the Bridge Commander manual states the exact opposite.
According to the recent Typhon Pact novels, the Gorn are allied with the Romulans against the Federation and the Klingons...take your pick.
Also, having diplomatic relations with someone does not make them allies.
The Klingons had an Ambassador to the Federation in Star Trek 4 and we know they weren't allies at the time.
Of course, the Federation Council and Starfleet stopped them.
That's one of the grudges my Federation character bears against the politicos. That and not taking the Undine threat more seriously.
Yes some elements like the Vesta are drawn from it simply due to popularity but what ever happened in the books is its own story, its own canon and has nothing to do with this game. think of it as happening in an alternate universe.
the game draws only from the shows, the path to 2409 written by cryptic and what ever appears in the game. thats it.
Erg... but both aren't cannon then... so decide which one you like better
EDIT--- Post what you think the Gorn should be, Romulan Faction, Fed Faction, or KDF Stay?
The game follow heavily the canon lore, the one from the TV shows and movies. When they lack informations, they use some others source (book, comics...), like the Romulan language or the Vesta.
I don't really like having so many different races as part of the Klingon Empire. The Klingon tend to be quite xenophobic when it comes to their own Empire. They can respect strength and honor, they may ally with you, but it's something else when it comes to join them.
ok, I will try again after this post with Alpha info
There was the ENT appearance, but given that it's a MU Gorn I wouldn't put any stock in it either.
Their OWN faction!! :cool:
Rrezeth, Gorn Tactical, primary alt
Nari, Orion Science, secondary alt
Federation-Gorn relations were described, in the Star Trek Encyclopedia, as "cordial" during the 2370s. While some references tell us that there was a settlement reached over the Cestus colony, there is no specific evidence from any canon source stating how friendly the Federation and the Hegemony might have become.
In the novel Articles of the Federation one of the characters says that the crew of the USS Enterprise convinced the Gorn to join the Federation Alliance and fight against the Dominion in the war. This is from the graphic novel The Gorn Crisis by Kevin J. Anderson and illustrated by Igor Kordey. But in the game manual for Star Trek: Bridge Commander, it is stated that the Gorn sided with the Dominion. The Star Trek: Destiny novel Mere Mortals by David Mack establishes that the Gorn Hegemony has an embassy to the Federation located in Berlin and its head of government is the Gorn Imperator. In A Singular Destiny, the Gorn ally themselves with the Romulan Star Empire, the Tholians, and others antagonistic towards the Federation and Klingons.
In Star Trek Online, by the early 25th century, the Klingons have conquered the Hegemony and absorbed the Gorn into the Empire. The storyline of the game also states that a monarch, King Slathis, is the head of the government.
So... the Gorn by Cannon is confusing really... but it leads more to being either foes with the Empire and Federation and allied with other factions in the universe like Dominion and Tholian. Therefore, Gorn are obsolete. STO Cannon is MUCH different from regular ones. MANY Different Cannons. Which one do you like? I personally like the Dominion and Tholian Alliance the most.
LOVE IT! SOLD! The Gorn really derseve that! TOOO Much cannon to decide their fate!
It really isn't. The majority of things you quoted were from the Apocrypha section. That's non-canon material being presented to give a reader a glimpse into "extra" information about the topic.
Both are the official game related materials as far as backstory goes.
R.I.P
Regarding the topic, as others have pointed out: There is no canon material on the Gorn, they never have been of any relevance outside of one TOS episode. But I don't see them as allies to the Federation. They'd best form a fourth faction with Breen, the Dominion etc. but since in STOs lore there were conquered by the Klingons I can see them being vassals of the Empire. Unwilling ones, but vassals. Though like I said, in the game right now they are basically part of the "confederacy" of Qo'Nos
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^That^ is as far as I read. Memory Beta is NOT canon information. While STO draws on "soft canon" at time, they pick and choose which to allow to be part of STO's canon, logically so, since the books contradict each other from one author to another.
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
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It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
Yeah, I know some book or other mentioned The Feds and Gorn being allies, but, STO does not stick entirely to canon either. After the events of Nemesis...Cryptic just made it up as they went, sorta like their own universe.
Lets not forget that some Gorn do not like the KDF, and have even openly rebelled against the KDF. However, this is not reason to have the Gorn anywhere else. They must remain KDF exclusive in order to keep the KDF (as a player faction) alive. No lock box unlocks, no C-Store Gorn...nothing. Gorn are KDF exclusive (aside from a possible bridge officer). As a devoted Gorn player on the KDF, I would be pretty ticked if I found out that every Joe Public on the STO game servers can now make Federation Gorn.
Give the KDF a break...they have it hard enough already with all the bugs. Do we really need to take away their best race too?
Trek lore does not even follow trek lore half the time and the other half is subject to the movie or episode being aired.
R.I.P
Memory alpha and memory beta site are FAN intitives. It's not "canon" unless CBS says it's "canon". CBS has stated time and again that novels are not to be concidered canon material even if licanced from CBS, and or Paramount unless specificly stated otherwise on a case by case basis.. The only canon material is the television show as far as the Star Trek and the movies based apon the original series, Next Generation, Deep Space -9, and Enterprise. Paramount's J.J. Abrams Startrek is also Canon, but is an alternate time line. Startrek Online is set in the original time line. What has happened with the gorn since any mention in the named series is "unknown" . The STO timeline is Canon for the original or prime universe.
Memory Beta contains a great deal of fan speculation and conjecture is is not considered by Cryptic a "prime scource" Memory Alpha is considered a scource BUT only where it is in agreement with CBS. What CBS says is canon is the final word. No other scource is to be concidered the judge of what is or is not canonnical material.
Nice speculation, and a good argument, but Cryptic is not going to rewrite the game to fit it. And Cryptic path to 2409 has allready been vetted and fully approved by CBS. It IS canon. The story and lore of the prime universe story line as presented in Startrek Online is canon.
Sorry if it makes you feel frustrated.
It was noted by the original poster that the Gorn were presented as allied to the Federation in the game series Starfleet Command. Starfleet command uses properties owned by Paramount and CBS, but derives its game material and history from Task Force Games/ADB (macers of the tabletop game Starfleet Battles, and it modern remake, the "captains" series of table top games.) which in turrn were licenced from material from Franz Joseph Designs which published the original "Startrek Technical Manual" and a a "blueprint" series for Federation Contitution class cruiser and Klingon D-7 Cruiser in the 1970's, early 1980's. Franz Joseph Designs scource material is not considered official Canon in its entirety by CBS. If you want to know more about the legal wrangling that went on over this do google it. Its a facinating story. And it happened before Next Generation ever launched. Be aware that one of the bigest problems with the original series was the lack of story contigaty. Each show was a stand alone story, and not part of a larger narative. That was the way they made television back then. Today nearly all dramatic series have a time line of events,a nd an ongoing back story. This started happening in the 1980.
Back to the drawing board you!
Gorns will stay with KDF. Just because feds aka galactic tyrants drool for everything doesn't mean Gorns will willingly go Feds.
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
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I agree with you... and I understand they wont do anything... I just thought it was interesting to have Gorn Feds... or new Faction sometime soon on Dominion and Tholians w/ Gorn in that instead.. idk..up to CBS.. only if THEY had a site we could use....
With how things are now... cause Gorn kinda are allied w/ Romulans in mirror, maybe can be faction wide? IDK CBS decides... cause to be honest, races should not be restricted to a faction... you never know when a Gorn might want to join another faction, going against their faction.
Possibly wont happen.. you never know...
DeltaFox
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Pfft... I've been wanting Orion-feds for ever, I even campaigned for them back when Cryptic was still it's own company... the likelihood of race-faction restrictions being removed is lower than the likelihood of me winning the lottery. xD
There is no such thing as "soft canon." There is canon, and there is non-canon. There is no in-between.
As a licensed work, STO is not canon. Canon, by definition, is only that which is produced by the franchise owners.
"Canon" Is COnsidered by the CBS... Even though this so calle "Canon" is NOT Canon.... I just rather have open faction racing so everyone can be what they want...
Think of it... maybe a Gorn rebeled and wanted to get at the KDF... so they join the Federation... there are MANY possibilites on why you can do this. JUST because you are a faction ODEASNT mean your chracter "bio/RP wise" wants the faction... Yes yes KDF pepole do get mad at this, but im KDF, and I like this idea. Maybe we cna be Romualn, because we are allies in "mirror canon"... or Dominion or Tholian in "non-canon".... either way its a pain... some "non-canon" even states the Gorn hate KDF and FEDs! Idk.. I like playing Gorn.. im just SICK AND TIRED of red, crimson everywhere I look and this so called "HONOR" the empire says they have! Gorn are xenphobic.... they wouldn't ally easily without a fight. Once a Gonr is set in thier ways, they do not change... and again... that "Undine Thing" is not canon... no idea where that came from... it was a coup d'eat by the Gorn people that affected this.... not Undine.
*sigh* In all terms that apply, its been a tough time... please comment more below on your thoughts... im getting too far into "Gorn-Canon" (Canon and not... who knows)... leave it up to you to think of the Gorn. I just like RP and BIO... and also like freedom of choice. Con posting,