/agree. My STO toons are in moth balls myself and have been since I seen a $125.00 expansion pack advertised well before LOR. All the P2W included in STO and the price keeps going up and up and up.............
Sorry. but this is not the only "non-cookie cutter" MMO out there at the moment. I'm actually playing AO (for the 1st time) and even with the 12 year old graphics, it brings me back to the great gameplay in SWG that was lost a couple of years ago. Altho, Funcom is updating the graphics to Age of Conan style in the near future (several U-tubes up of the new graphics now). 12 year anniversary is going on this weekend with give-aways, events, added content, etc etc etc. One of the freebies is a jet-pack and that game does include atmospheric flight. Good weekend to try AO.
As to answer the OP question of this game going the SWG route? I doubt it. If and when STO does die out, I don't believe that we would ever see player made EMUs of STO.
Ok, my first problem is with your statement about there being a $125 expansion pack. You're wrong. The Legacy of Romulus expansion was and is completely FREE. There was offered a pack of C-Store ships and other goodies at the reduced price of $125 US. No one had to buy the pack in order to download and play the Legacy of Romulus expansion to STO.
Secondly, you mention P2W or Pay to Win for those not familiar with term. Here again you are wrong. There is no such thing except in the minds of players such as yourself. You can play any of the content in STO and successfully and competitively complete it without spending 1 penny of real world currency.
Prices for shinies have been flat-lined since this game went live. Cryptic keeps the shinies priced low enough that anyone, even those not spending real world currency to buy in game currency can acquire the in-game currency to buy the shinies. So there's wrong statement three.
If you don't like Cryptic's presentation of the Star Trek IP, well, you are entitled to your opinion. But if you were to form your opinion on real world, truthful facts instead of some made up garbage that keeps getting regurgitated on these forums and other places, I think your opinion might just change.
I purchased an LTS after LoR was released. The game has been around long enough, with enough content to indicate that the game will continue for some time to come.
I do not PvP.
Population will always depend on time zones and types of content that any given user is playing.
Population in this game also depends on what instance you are in at any given time. I have seen some instances be completely full in both ESD and New Rom, and others be nearly empty.
Not seeing many people, or not seeing many people queuing up for a match during your timezone/time of day, or instance is not, and should not, be used as an overall indication of game health.
I can't tell if the OP is a troll or just naive. Regardless, I've seen these posts in every MMO I've played (all of which are still alive and well) including the WoW forums. Which if you know anything about the marketshare WoW commands and their active accounts numerics, should tell you something about the chicken littles who always assume the worst.
Originally Posted by zombiehunter64
im just saying not as m any people seem to be playing as they use to it takes forever to get a pvp teain the past people would line up to be on a pvp team together when
Please finish this sentence. I'm developing a facial tic. When... when... when what?
_________________________________________________
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
Every single MMO from launch is "dying" if you class dying as loosing players, its just if the game company can bring in more gamers to off set the losses and keep the game profitable. STO has plenty of mugs (me included) who throw money at it so I can't see it closing down any time soon..... but then I can't see the future.
I can't tell if the OP is a troll or just naive. Regardless, I've seen these posts in every MMO I've played (all of which are still alive and well) including the WoW forums. Which if you know anything about the marketshare WoW commands and their active accounts numerics, should tell you something about the chicken littles who always assume the worst.
Please finish this sentence. I'm developing a facial tic. When... when... when what?
Well that is a horrible comparison. WOW has over 6 Million players, and STO has a little over 200K.
So really that is an extremely bad comparison. In a game that has this little player base you can't TRIBBLE around with them.
Ok, my first problem is with your statement about there being a $125 expansion pack. You're wrong. The Legacy of Romulus expansion was and is completely FREE. There was offered a pack of C-Store ships and other goodies at the reduced price of $125 US. No one had to buy the pack in order to download and play the Legacy of Romulus expansion to STO.
Secondly, you mention P2W or Pay to Win for those not familiar with term. Here again you are wrong. There is no such thing except in the minds of players such as yourself. You can play any of the content in STO and successfully and competitively complete it without spending 1 penny of real world currency.
Prices for shinies have been flat-lined since this game went live. Cryptic keeps the shinies priced low enough that anyone, even those not spending real world currency to buy in game currency can acquire the in-game currency to buy the shinies. So there's wrong statement three.
If you don't like Cryptic's presentation of the Star Trek IP, well, you are entitled to your opinion. But if you were to form your opinion on real world, truthful facts instead of some made up garbage that keeps getting regurgitated on these forums and other places, I think your opinion might just change.
Guess I hit a nerve. Ok, some facts instead of blanket statements that pretty much everyone that plays STO, and has since closed beta, already knows all too well.
I've read here that you don't have to buy anything in STO. Guess they don't partake in PVP gameplay much. Try 1 time going into a match with the "free" ships and see how you fare. After you get 1-shotted and clone for the 50th time you might get the idea.
Even the newer PVE has now been designed for the need of C-Store ships. Want the easier route to get that fleet currency, do like I did and get the andy. 5 DHCs up front for all that DPS along with 4 eng consoles to tank. Makes the 20 man and even the 5 man sooo much easier. 3/4rs of the time, I would go at 1/4 engine, tanking while doing so, while throwing plenty enough DPS to "kill before being killed".
I was around when they launched the 1st of the P2W ships. You might know the one (it's severally outclassed now) by nothing except other C-Store ships, but for the time a crusier with 3 tac slots was a big deal. I got one, altho there was an in-game method to get it at the time. Same thing with the def. Got mine by playing the game. I waited a bit more time to get it but got it just the same. Where is the in-game way to get the bug? Or any other of the lockbox ships for that matter? And that little deal that Cryptic hypes of some1 else can buy it and you can get it with credits just doesn't count, sorry. Some1 still had to buy it 1st. The only one who wins there is the C-Store.
It's nothing more than a fallacy to believe you can play this game without "spending 1 dime". You may indeed be able to level but at end game, the ONLY way to advance your character is straight out of the store. And that, to me anyway, is pure P2W. Maybe you need to try 1 of the non F2P games and see what it's like not playing P2W so you can judge for yourself.
Well that is a horrible comparison. WOW has over 6 Million players, and STO has a little over 200K.
So really that is an extremely bad comparison. In a game that has this little player base you can't TRIBBLE around with them.
If you really think STO has a little over 200k players then from my perspective of having been around since Closed Beta, that's a good thing! I can remember there being maybe 40-50k players at one time.
Put a different way, during my time here with Cryptics STO, the player population has increased substantially. That means more money coming into Cryptic which means more content generated while Cryptic has to expand on the hardware running the game.
Based on the above signs of thriving and growing MMO, how can anyone with an actual grasp of the reality of STO even consider the thought that STO is "dying"?
Well that is a horrible comparison. WOW has over 6 Million players, and STO has a little over 200K.
So really that is an extremely bad comparison. In a game that has this little player base you can't TRIBBLE around with them.
My point was, that even in a massively popular game like WoW (read marketshare) there were people there also constantly asking if WoW was dying. So that's ridiculous.
Also, you have no idea what STO's playerbase is. And if you do, pics or it didn't happen.
Finally, noone's talking about TRIBBLE around with anybody. The OP asked if STO was dying.
Edit: Omg. I agree with pyryck :eek::P
_________________________________________________
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
Guess I hit a nerve. Ok, some facts instead of blanket statements that pretty much everyone that plays STO, and has since closed beta, already knows all too well.
I've read here that you don't have to buy anything in STO. Guess they don't partake in PVP gameplay much. Try 1 time going into a match with the "free" ships and see how you fare. After you get 1-shotted and clone for the 50th time you might get the idea.
Even the newer PVE has now been designed for the need of C-Store ships. Want the easier route to get that fleet currency, do like I did and get the andy. 5 DHCs up front for all that DPS along with 4 eng consoles to tank. Makes the 20 man and even the 5 man sooo much easier. 3/4rs of the time, I would go at 1/4 engine, tanking while doing so, while throwing plenty enough DPS to "kill before being killed".
I was around when they launched the 1st of the P2W ships. You might know the one (it's severally outclassed now) by nothing except other C-Store ships, but for the time a crusier with 3 tac slots was a big deal. I got one, altho there was an in-game method to get it at the time. Same thing with the def. Got mine by playing the game. I waited a bit more time to get it but got it just the same. Where is the in-game way to get the bug? Or any other of the lockbox ships for that matter? And that little deal that Cryptic hypes of some1 else can buy it and you can get it with credits just doesn't count, sorry. Some1 still had to buy it 1st. The only one who wins there is the C-Store.
It's nothing more than a fallacy to believe you can play this game without "spending 1 dime". You may indeed be able to level but at end game, the ONLY way to advance your character is straight out of the store. And that, to me anyway, is pure P2W. Maybe you need to try 1 of the non F2P games and see what it's like not playing P2W so you can judge for yourself.
Most of what you're writing there is from the mindset of having to have something immediately in order to complete the content in the quickest , easiest way possible.
Since the introduction of dilithium and the Dil-Zen exchange system, no one, and I do mean not one single living breathing human being that plays this game has to spend even one single penny to buy anything in this game. Yes it may take some time to amass as much dil as you need to convert to Zen in order to buy something from the C-Store, but in the end you do not have to spend any real world cash. You just spend the time in game playing the content available.
You mention the Jem'hadar Attack ship specifically as an example to support your premise that someone has to spend some real world money to obtain that ship in game. I say you are wrong. You can earn dilithium to convert to Zen to buy lockbox keys from the C-Store. Or you can amass a fortune of Energy Credits by playing the exchange market and buy the keys or even a ship that someone else is selling after they obtained it without spending one single penny.
You can get an invite to some fleet that has spent the time and effort to level a starbase in order to buy fleet gear. Again, you can earn the dilithium from just playing the game. You do NOT have to spend ANY real world money to obtain anything in this game.
p.s. I've been "computer gaming" since the early 70's and have played quite a few MMOs over the last 15-20 years.
He stated a bunch of opinions. those are not facts.
1) not a game for soloers if you want top (fleet) gear: fact
2) not a game for casuals if you want rep gear: fact
3) not a game for a spendthrift if if 2 is also true and you want c-store gear: fact
4) not a game if you and a few friends want to go through the starbase fleet grind if 2 is true (your own fleet) since additionally you may need that dilithium for rep, rep items, doffs, and carrier pets/weapons.: fact
now, if you have more money than sense, all you have to do is buy zen and throw it on the exchange and you're all good.: fact
note well, i detest apologists, they often say things with no way of proving them...so i'll give you that opportunity to show that you're not one.
as to the other debate...no, you don't have to spend a dime...just spend thousands of hours grinding to get what you could buy in 30 seconds. but...wait a minute...aren't people paid by the time they spend? so all that time grinding is money? well...look at that. and it's all for nothing in the end anyway (virtual goods) with a long road to get there.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
1) not a game for soloers if you want top (fleet) gear: fact
2) not a game for casuals if you want rep gear: fact
3) not a game for a spendthrift if if 2 is also true and you want c-store gear: fact
4) not a game if you and a few friends want to go through the starbase fleet grind if 2 is true (your own fleet) since additionally you may need that dilithium for rep, rep items, doffs, and carrier pets/weapons.: fact
now, if you have more money than sense, all you have to do is buy zen and throw it on the exchange and you're all good.: fact
note well, i detest apologists, they often say things with no way of proving them...so i'll give you that opportunity to show that you're not one.
as to the other debate...no, you don't have to spend a dime...just spend thousands of hours grinding to get what you could by in 30 seconds. but...wait a minute...aren't people paid by the time they spend? so all that time grinding is money? well...look at that. and it's all for nothing in the end anyway (virtual goods) with a long road to get there.
1. BS - you can reach an agreement to join a fleet long enough to buy what you want then leave it.
2. BS - the rep system is quite suited to casual play.
3. BS - you can earn Zen lots of different ways to buy items from the C-Store.
4. BS - you can take your own sweet time leveling a starbase
Please don't confuse opinions based on wrong information and incorrect assumptions as being actual "facts". You're assuming that you have to have access to everything in the game immediately upon signing up and logging in.
You don't get paid to play. That's not how online games work in the real world. You spend the time enjoying the entertainment while "working" or "leveling" or "acquiring" "stuff" to achieve something that you want.
Oh, you can make them pay you, if you have a clue about what you're doing and know how to "play" the system to your own benefit. Some of us know how to do this, but sometimes decide to take a shortcut and just whip out the bank account.
Most of what you're writing there is from the mindset of having to have something immediately in order to complete the content in the quickest , easiest way possible.
Since the introduction of dilithium and the Dil-Zen exchange system, no one, and I do mean not one single living breathing human being that plays this game has to spend even one single penny to buy anything in this game. Yes it may take some time to amass as much dil as you need to convert to Zen in order to buy something from the C-Store, but in the end you do not have to spend any real world cash. You just spend the time in game playing the content available.
You mention the Jem'hadar Attack ship specifically as an example to support your premise that someone has to spend some real world money to obtain that ship in game. I say you are wrong. You can earn dilithium to convert to Zen to buy lockbox keys from the C-Store. Or you can amass a fortune of Energy Credits by playing the exchange market and buy the keys or even a ship that someone else is selling after they obtained it without spending one single penny.
You can get an invite to some fleet that has spent the time and effort to level a starbase in order to buy fleet gear. Again, you can earn the dilithium from just playing the game. You do NOT have to spend ANY real world money to obtain anything in this game.
p.s. I've been "computer gaming" since the early 70's and have played quite a few MMOs over the last 15-20 years.
Please get off the ADHD "WoW" mentality with me. I ground jedi when jedi was something to behold. Back in the day of perma-death. I have NO fear of grind. I'm currently playing AO, and very much happy as I bought the year sub, and just about all that game is about "the grind". Very few quests, mission terms, boat-load of group content, and open world PVP.
I was here when Cryptic touted the dil grind as an alternative. And, in fact, it was a viable alternative for a while. I did it myself. But, it would seem, that alternative worked too well and ended up cutting into profits from the C-Store. So, the design was changed, once again, (another NGE of sorts), and dil was removed from some things, and added (but only a pittance of once was) on some others. Then we received all kinds of little deals that needed dil as a resource. (starbases, etc etc etc) That changed the dil pricing for zen that people still gripe about to this day on these forums as well. You can simply not make enough dil for what playing the game requires AND stockpile enough to sell for zen without letting something go. I get it. Cryptic can't have a viable alternative to spending money. They want money, they need money to keep the game up, to pay devs, and Jack to sit in his large office.
If you actually want to, or are willing to, play a game with this much design on players spending money, so be it. Have fun. More power to you and all that stuff. I don't and I've played games just as long as you have (maybe longer in MMOs as I still remember UO before SWG in 03) and I chose not to. I have a viable alternative open to me and currently, it's a 12 year old game that I'm more than willing to spend money on and reward, what in my estimation amounts to decent game development without the perverbial "cash-grab". That's just the free market place in action.
And /thread clearly means go on shovel-feeding trolls and arguing with malcontents for another five or ten pages... :rolleyes:
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I don't think this game is dying as such, though I do think that the team are running out of new ideas, and they're running out fast.
As already mentioned, a complete bug fix would go a long way to making this game better, more playable, and more enjoyable. Throw some more balance in there and we've got ourselves a winner. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen anytime soon. Instead we'll get more reputation projects grinding dilithium out of us.
1. BS - you can reach an agreement to join a fleet long enough to buy what you want then leave it.
2. BS - the rep system is quite suited to casual play.
3. BS - you can earn Zen lots of different ways to buy items from the C-Store.
4. BS - you can take your own sweet time leveling a starbase
Please don't confuse opinions based on wrong information and incorrect assumptions as being actual "facts". You're assuming that you have to have access to everything in the game immediately upon signing up and logging in.
You don't get paid to play. That's not how online games work in the real world. You spend the time enjoying the entertainment while "working" or "leveling" or "acquiring" "stuff" to achieve something that you want.
Oh, you can make them pay you, if you have a clue about what you're doing and know how to "play" the system to your own benefit. Some of us know how to do this, but sometimes decide to take a shortcut and just whip out the bank account.
1) you pay, some agreement, or you lie, also not acceptable, except to you maybe
2) lol, how? somewhere on these forums someone worked out how many hours, nay, weeks it takes to get top rep in just ONE area...that's not casual when there's 3, + everything else. i've talked to casual gamers, played with them, maybe you don't know exactly what a casual gamer is, they don't spend hours per session, they spend maybe 1 or 2, maybe 3 on weekends. now, tell me again how the rep system, suits casual players eh?
3) filling out surveys? are you kidding? or naive? posts in this forum and other pwe game forums of them not delivering, or the restrictions/requirements want more info than anyone is willing to give. there's only TWO ways, surveys and dil grinding and buying off the exchange.
4) sweet time...years, yeah, there's just a ton of people dying to invest that kind of time on top of everything else, you and a few friends want your own cosy fleet? you aren't going to have the perks for such a long time it makes it pointless dumping resources into that blackhole...and then there's the embassy, the dil mines, and whatever other new dil$$$ they dream up.
talk about your rose colored glasses, you have them.
further, i did not state in any way shape or form i wanted anything handed to me, you came up with that, and that was a fail. which makes most of the rest of what you said fail, since it was a common attempt to belittle my points by making them seem as if i'm spoiled.
utter failure, there is no playing the system, unless you exploit, which is cheating, not playing. your 'magical' ways to get ahead in the game....post them eh?
my points are facts, i was so hoping someone would try and refute them...because the game itself proves them. i did nothing but write them down and claim credit. it's how the game IS. trying to say otherwise is just lying to yourself. oh, and the new scimitar...any thoughts? eh?
people enjoy different things though, some enjoy grinding for years, some enjoy being milked, buying the latest and greatest virtual game toy. some even constantly lie to themselves that all is right and perfect about something they like...i'm not one of those.
i play or i wouldn't post, though most likely not for much longer, and when i quit (again) i leave the forums as well. 17 characters at 50...i know the grind...and did forget to mention yet another fact
not a game that favors having alts, since they have to grind as well each and everyone.
take your glasses off, quit lying to yourself, no shame that something you like has flaws, except in bsing yourself that it's perfect
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
Please get off the ADHD "WoW" mentality with me. I ground jedi when jedi was something to behold. Back in the day of perma-death. I have NO fear of grind. I'm currently playing AO, and very much happy as I bought the year sub, and just about all that game is about "the grind". Very few quests, mission terms, boat-load of group content, and open world PVP.
I was here when Cryptic touted the dil grind as an alternative. And, in fact, it was a viable alternative for a while. I did it myself. But, it would seem, that alternative worked too well and ended up cutting into profits from the C-Store. So, the design was changed, once again, (another NGE of sorts), and dil was removed from some things, and added (but only a pittance of once was) on some others. Then we received all kinds of little deals that needed dil as a resource. (starbases, etc etc etc) That changed the dil pricing for zen that people still gripe about to this day on these forums as well. You can simply not make enough dil for what playing the game requires AND stockpile enough to sell for zen without letting something go. I get it. Cryptic can't have a viable alternative to spending money. They want money, they need money to keep the game up, to pay devs, and Jack to sit in his large office.
If you actually want to, or are willing to, play a game with this much design on players spending money, so be it. Have fun. More power to you and all that stuff. I don't and I've played games just as long as you have (maybe longer in MMOs as I still remember UO before SWG in 03) and I chose not to. I have a viable alternative open to me and currently, it's a 12 year old game that I'm more than willing to spend money on and reward, what in my estimation amounts to decent game development without the perverbial "cash-grab". That's just the free market place in action.
Lets try to clarify a few things here. I have never been diagnosed as having any sort of attention deficit disorder nor have any of the doctors that I've been to in the last 5 decades of my life made mention of me being afflicted with it. I've been computer gaming since the 1970's not 2007. I closed out my WoW account in 2009 after having played it since 2004. I had absolutely zero interest in SWG and your mentioning making a Jedi "when it was something to behold" means next to squat to me.
Bottomline is this - Cryptic has to make money to keep the game up and running and provide more content. They have to get it someway, even more so now that they've made the game free to play. They have provide the options to obtain EVERYTHING in game without spending one single penny. All they have done is require you to spend some time in the game to acquire what you want for free. It is NOT a fault or bad thing that a company wants to make money/profits on the product they offer. Companies are in business to MAKE MONEY. That is their primary driving force.
But some players have an issue with the ways in which Cryptic is trying to make money because it's directly in conflict with the players programmed or learned behavior to have everything given to them immediately and without having to spend any real world money or real world time to acquire what ever it is that they desire.
No, STO is not dying. As I see it, it is staying the course, neither dying nor getting stronger.
It will die when we run out of (or get bored of) end game content. As long as Crytpic keeps adding new end game content, and something to work for, then STO will keep going. We need more than ships in the C-Store. Cryptic did a great job with LoR as it was a massive expansion. LoR brought me back to STO, and I am now loving it.
ANother thing that Cryptic can do to keep STO alive - NEWS.
Yes, you heard me...MORE DEV BLOGS. When we have something to look forward to, when you show us things, when you reveal slight details about long term plans, it keeps us interested. Cryptic is pretty good with this, and a bit of improvement can be made, but they are doing pretty good.
STO will only die when Cryptic stops adding end-game content. Period.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you oppose the Reputation nerf, feel free to use my signature
You confuse what are "facts" with your "opinions".
The whole underlying theme of your response is the programmed or learned behavior of wanting/needing/desiring to obtain everything in the game at as little cost, effort and time as you possibly can expend.
Cryptic knows about that programmed/learned behavior and counts on it to help them make money. They have provided a way in which every single item in game can be obtained either through cost, through effort or through time or some combination of the three means.
If you have an issue with any one of those means, then you have the other two options available to you. If you have an issue with all three means then you're most likely not going to be playing STO very long and you will probably wind up here in the forums trashing the company and other players before you sign off and move along to "greener grass" on the other side of the fence. And I hope you've heard that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.
Every MMO is going to die, that's inevitable. Therefore, every MMO is dying. Some are just dying very slowly.
Will STO be running in a year? Yes.
In two years? Most likely.
In five years? Maybe not.
In ten years? Probably not.
In twenty years? No.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Lets try to clarify a few things here. I have never been diagnosed as having any sort of attention deficit disorder nor have any of the doctors that I've been to in the last 5 decades of my life made mention of me being afflicted with it. I've been computer gaming since the 1970's not 2007. I closed out my WoW account in 2009 after having played it since 2004. I had absolutely zero interest in SWG and your mentioning making a Jedi "when it was something to behold" means next to squat to me.
Bottomline is this - Cryptic has to make money to keep the game up and running and provide more content. They have to get it someway, even more so now that they've made the game free to play. They have provide the options to obtain EVERYTHING in game without spending one single penny. All they have done is require you to spend some time in the game to acquire what you want for free. It is NOT a fault or bad thing that a company wants to make money/profits on the product they offer. Companies are in business to MAKE MONEY. That is their primary driving force.
But some players have an issue with the ways in which Cryptic is trying to make money because it's directly in conflict with the players programmed or learned behavior to have everything given to them immediately and without having to spend any real world money or real world time to acquire what ever it is that they desire.
Appearently, you do not like the "ADHD WoW mentality" any better than I do. But you still throw that out as a way to dispel any opinion other than your own and have now at me, twice. "programmed or learned behavior to have everything given to them immediately". That the ADHD mentality I refer to. Wanting everything given to them and now.
Your loss that you never played SWG. No1 got anything "immediately". The jedi grind was months or even years. You ground up 4 random professions out of 32 to unlock and before the holo-grind, you had no idea of which ones they were. Even with the holo-grind, you got 3 of those profs and the 4th was unknown to all but a bunch of laughing devs.
I am now glad to say I've not much of a WoW account to close. It was just never my game. I guess I'm a little to old to play games with elves in them. However, I'm old enough to have an interest in a Star Trek game as I watched the TOS when it was out, originally (not re-runs). And that interest also moved onto Star Wars as the 1st movie was my 1st date with my 2nd wife.
However, with what Cryptic has done with this game, mostly in the administration end, the IP is no longer even a grab for me. I could and did get over the delays in the Cryptic engine, 2nd only to the Hero engine that TOR uses in engine TRIBBLE-ups, but when they start charging $50 for ships and $125.00 for "expansion" packs, I believe I'll take my money down the road. Zinga, I believe, had a study on their F2P games and divulged that only 5% bought anything at their stores. While I would imagine the % in STO tops that a bit, I would imagine the actual percentage isn't all that much over. I utterly refuse to pay higher prices to offset loses from other demographics for virtual items that when the game closes, you basicly lose.
Again, you like it, play it and spend the money. I did for a few years. They got $300 out of me for the Lifer. The post I originally replied to said there was no other MMO alternatives. And for me, at least, there certainly is with more MMOs coming that will not be themepark in nature, P2W items all over their stores, and PVP and even PVE so unbalanced that it's almost unplayable, with high-dollar cash grabs as the norm.
The only thing I see dying is the English language.
No, the OP is absolutely correct.
Originally, the game had blue and red factions. Now, there's a green fraction, and presumably a yellow, orange or purple fraction in the works as well.
Appearently, you do not like the "ADHD WoW mentality" any better than I do. But you still throw that out as a way to dispel any opinion other than your own and have now at me, twice. "programmed or learned behavior to have everything given to them immediately". That the ADHD mentality I refer to. Wanting everything given to them and now.
Is this going to be like GW2 legendary weapons? I don't mind working for one, ie I don't "want it now," but I couldn't abide by the fact that the AH price for a precursor was climbing faster than I could accumulate gold, ie I'll "never get it."
Cryptic can't have a viable alternative to spending money. They want money, they need money to keep the game up, to pay devs, and Jack to sit in his large office.
That's basically their business model, yes.
That going F2P forces you to prioritize how you spend your limited dilithium shouldn't be a surprise. I find their model in STO to be rather reasonable, actually, despite being a primarily F2P player. If it's really that important to me to have something today, rather than work for item A this week and item B next week, I can begrudgingly pay. Or, I can just accept that I won't have item B for an additional week.
The only real problem is that content feels limited and repetitive. I'll be running essentially the same missions for both items A and B (and C, D, E, etc), and grinding the same content repeatedly becomes tedious.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Comments
Ok, my first problem is with your statement about there being a $125 expansion pack. You're wrong. The Legacy of Romulus expansion was and is completely FREE. There was offered a pack of C-Store ships and other goodies at the reduced price of $125 US. No one had to buy the pack in order to download and play the Legacy of Romulus expansion to STO.
Secondly, you mention P2W or Pay to Win for those not familiar with term. Here again you are wrong. There is no such thing except in the minds of players such as yourself. You can play any of the content in STO and successfully and competitively complete it without spending 1 penny of real world currency.
Prices for shinies have been flat-lined since this game went live. Cryptic keeps the shinies priced low enough that anyone, even those not spending real world currency to buy in game currency can acquire the in-game currency to buy the shinies. So there's wrong statement three.
If you don't like Cryptic's presentation of the Star Trek IP, well, you are entitled to your opinion. But if you were to form your opinion on real world, truthful facts instead of some made up garbage that keeps getting regurgitated on these forums and other places, I think your opinion might just change.
He stated a bunch of opinions. those are not facts.
I do not PvP.
Population will always depend on time zones and types of content that any given user is playing.
Population in this game also depends on what instance you are in at any given time. I have seen some instances be completely full in both ESD and New Rom, and others be nearly empty.
Not seeing many people, or not seeing many people queuing up for a match during your timezone/time of day, or instance is not, and should not, be used as an overall indication of game health.
Please finish this sentence. I'm developing a facial tic. When... when... when what?
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
Well that is a horrible comparison. WOW has over 6 Million players, and STO has a little over 200K.
So really that is an extremely bad comparison. In a game that has this little player base you can't TRIBBLE around with them.
Guess I hit a nerve. Ok, some facts instead of blanket statements that pretty much everyone that plays STO, and has since closed beta, already knows all too well.
I've read here that you don't have to buy anything in STO. Guess they don't partake in PVP gameplay much. Try 1 time going into a match with the "free" ships and see how you fare. After you get 1-shotted and clone for the 50th time you might get the idea.
Even the newer PVE has now been designed for the need of C-Store ships. Want the easier route to get that fleet currency, do like I did and get the andy. 5 DHCs up front for all that DPS along with 4 eng consoles to tank. Makes the 20 man and even the 5 man sooo much easier. 3/4rs of the time, I would go at 1/4 engine, tanking while doing so, while throwing plenty enough DPS to "kill before being killed".
I was around when they launched the 1st of the P2W ships. You might know the one (it's severally outclassed now) by nothing except other C-Store ships, but for the time a crusier with 3 tac slots was a big deal. I got one, altho there was an in-game method to get it at the time. Same thing with the def. Got mine by playing the game. I waited a bit more time to get it but got it just the same. Where is the in-game way to get the bug? Or any other of the lockbox ships for that matter? And that little deal that Cryptic hypes of some1 else can buy it and you can get it with credits just doesn't count, sorry. Some1 still had to buy it 1st. The only one who wins there is the C-Store.
It's nothing more than a fallacy to believe you can play this game without "spending 1 dime". You may indeed be able to level but at end game, the ONLY way to advance your character is straight out of the store. And that, to me anyway, is pure P2W. Maybe you need to try 1 of the non F2P games and see what it's like not playing P2W so you can judge for yourself.
If you really think STO has a little over 200k players then from my perspective of having been around since Closed Beta, that's a good thing! I can remember there being maybe 40-50k players at one time.
Put a different way, during my time here with Cryptics STO, the player population has increased substantially. That means more money coming into Cryptic which means more content generated while Cryptic has to expand on the hardware running the game.
Based on the above signs of thriving and growing MMO, how can anyone with an actual grasp of the reality of STO even consider the thought that STO is "dying"?
My point was, that even in a massively popular game like WoW (read marketshare) there were people there also constantly asking if WoW was dying. So that's ridiculous.
Also, you have no idea what STO's playerbase is. And if you do, pics or it didn't happen.
Finally, noone's talking about TRIBBLE around with anybody. The OP asked if STO was dying.
Edit: Omg. I agree with pyryck :eek::P
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
Most of what you're writing there is from the mindset of having to have something immediately in order to complete the content in the quickest , easiest way possible.
Since the introduction of dilithium and the Dil-Zen exchange system, no one, and I do mean not one single living breathing human being that plays this game has to spend even one single penny to buy anything in this game. Yes it may take some time to amass as much dil as you need to convert to Zen in order to buy something from the C-Store, but in the end you do not have to spend any real world cash. You just spend the time in game playing the content available.
You mention the Jem'hadar Attack ship specifically as an example to support your premise that someone has to spend some real world money to obtain that ship in game. I say you are wrong. You can earn dilithium to convert to Zen to buy lockbox keys from the C-Store. Or you can amass a fortune of Energy Credits by playing the exchange market and buy the keys or even a ship that someone else is selling after they obtained it without spending one single penny.
You can get an invite to some fleet that has spent the time and effort to level a starbase in order to buy fleet gear. Again, you can earn the dilithium from just playing the game. You do NOT have to spend ANY real world money to obtain anything in this game.
p.s. I've been "computer gaming" since the early 70's and have played quite a few MMOs over the last 15-20 years.
1) not a game for soloers if you want top (fleet) gear: fact
2) not a game for casuals if you want rep gear: fact
3) not a game for a spendthrift if if 2 is also true and you want c-store gear: fact
4) not a game if you and a few friends want to go through the starbase fleet grind if 2 is true (your own fleet) since additionally you may need that dilithium for rep, rep items, doffs, and carrier pets/weapons.: fact
now, if you have more money than sense, all you have to do is buy zen and throw it on the exchange and you're all good.: fact
note well, i detest apologists, they often say things with no way of proving them...so i'll give you that opportunity to show that you're not one.
as to the other debate...no, you don't have to spend a dime...just spend thousands of hours grinding to get what you could buy in 30 seconds. but...wait a minute...aren't people paid by the time they spend? so all that time grinding is money? well...look at that. and it's all for nothing in the end anyway (virtual goods) with a long road to get there.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
1. BS - you can reach an agreement to join a fleet long enough to buy what you want then leave it.
2. BS - the rep system is quite suited to casual play.
3. BS - you can earn Zen lots of different ways to buy items from the C-Store.
4. BS - you can take your own sweet time leveling a starbase
Please don't confuse opinions based on wrong information and incorrect assumptions as being actual "facts". You're assuming that you have to have access to everything in the game immediately upon signing up and logging in.
You don't get paid to play. That's not how online games work in the real world. You spend the time enjoying the entertainment while "working" or "leveling" or "acquiring" "stuff" to achieve something that you want.
Oh, you can make them pay you, if you have a clue about what you're doing and know how to "play" the system to your own benefit. Some of us know how to do this, but sometimes decide to take a shortcut and just whip out the bank account.
but srsly I could save this game today blindfolded
cause sometimes its party time!
Please get off the ADHD "WoW" mentality with me. I ground jedi when jedi was something to behold. Back in the day of perma-death. I have NO fear of grind. I'm currently playing AO, and very much happy as I bought the year sub, and just about all that game is about "the grind". Very few quests, mission terms, boat-load of group content, and open world PVP.
I was here when Cryptic touted the dil grind as an alternative. And, in fact, it was a viable alternative for a while. I did it myself. But, it would seem, that alternative worked too well and ended up cutting into profits from the C-Store. So, the design was changed, once again, (another NGE of sorts), and dil was removed from some things, and added (but only a pittance of once was) on some others. Then we received all kinds of little deals that needed dil as a resource. (starbases, etc etc etc) That changed the dil pricing for zen that people still gripe about to this day on these forums as well. You can simply not make enough dil for what playing the game requires AND stockpile enough to sell for zen without letting something go. I get it. Cryptic can't have a viable alternative to spending money. They want money, they need money to keep the game up, to pay devs, and Jack to sit in his large office.
If you actually want to, or are willing to, play a game with this much design on players spending money, so be it. Have fun. More power to you and all that stuff. I don't and I've played games just as long as you have (maybe longer in MMOs as I still remember UO before SWG in 03) and I chose not to. I have a viable alternative open to me and currently, it's a 12 year old game that I'm more than willing to spend money on and reward, what in my estimation amounts to decent game development without the perverbial "cash-grab". That's just the free market place in action.
And /thread clearly means go on shovel-feeding trolls and arguing with malcontents for another five or ten pages... :rolleyes:
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
As already mentioned, a complete bug fix would go a long way to making this game better, more playable, and more enjoyable. Throw some more balance in there and we've got ourselves a winner. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen anytime soon. Instead we'll get more reputation projects grinding dilithium out of us.
1) you pay, some agreement, or you lie, also not acceptable, except to you maybe
2) lol, how? somewhere on these forums someone worked out how many hours, nay, weeks it takes to get top rep in just ONE area...that's not casual when there's 3, + everything else. i've talked to casual gamers, played with them, maybe you don't know exactly what a casual gamer is, they don't spend hours per session, they spend maybe 1 or 2, maybe 3 on weekends. now, tell me again how the rep system, suits casual players eh?
3) filling out surveys? are you kidding? or naive? posts in this forum and other pwe game forums of them not delivering, or the restrictions/requirements want more info than anyone is willing to give. there's only TWO ways, surveys and dil grinding and buying off the exchange.
4) sweet time...years, yeah, there's just a ton of people dying to invest that kind of time on top of everything else, you and a few friends want your own cosy fleet? you aren't going to have the perks for such a long time it makes it pointless dumping resources into that blackhole...and then there's the embassy, the dil mines, and whatever other new dil$$$ they dream up.
talk about your rose colored glasses, you have them.
further, i did not state in any way shape or form i wanted anything handed to me, you came up with that, and that was a fail. which makes most of the rest of what you said fail, since it was a common attempt to belittle my points by making them seem as if i'm spoiled.
utter failure, there is no playing the system, unless you exploit, which is cheating, not playing. your 'magical' ways to get ahead in the game....post them eh?
my points are facts, i was so hoping someone would try and refute them...because the game itself proves them. i did nothing but write them down and claim credit. it's how the game IS. trying to say otherwise is just lying to yourself. oh, and the new scimitar...any thoughts? eh?
people enjoy different things though, some enjoy grinding for years, some enjoy being milked, buying the latest and greatest virtual game toy. some even constantly lie to themselves that all is right and perfect about something they like...i'm not one of those.
i play or i wouldn't post, though most likely not for much longer, and when i quit (again) i leave the forums as well. 17 characters at 50...i know the grind...and did forget to mention yet another fact
not a game that favors having alts, since they have to grind as well each and everyone.
take your glasses off, quit lying to yourself, no shame that something you like has flaws, except in bsing yourself that it's perfect
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
Lets try to clarify a few things here. I have never been diagnosed as having any sort of attention deficit disorder nor have any of the doctors that I've been to in the last 5 decades of my life made mention of me being afflicted with it. I've been computer gaming since the 1970's not 2007. I closed out my WoW account in 2009 after having played it since 2004. I had absolutely zero interest in SWG and your mentioning making a Jedi "when it was something to behold" means next to squat to me.
Bottomline is this - Cryptic has to make money to keep the game up and running and provide more content. They have to get it someway, even more so now that they've made the game free to play. They have provide the options to obtain EVERYTHING in game without spending one single penny. All they have done is require you to spend some time in the game to acquire what you want for free. It is NOT a fault or bad thing that a company wants to make money/profits on the product they offer. Companies are in business to MAKE MONEY. That is their primary driving force.
But some players have an issue with the ways in which Cryptic is trying to make money because it's directly in conflict with the players programmed or learned behavior to have everything given to them immediately and without having to spend any real world money or real world time to acquire what ever it is that they desire.
It will die when we run out of (or get bored of) end game content. As long as Crytpic keeps adding new end game content, and something to work for, then STO will keep going. We need more than ships in the C-Store. Cryptic did a great job with LoR as it was a massive expansion. LoR brought me back to STO, and I am now loving it.
ANother thing that Cryptic can do to keep STO alive - NEWS.
Yes, you heard me...MORE DEV BLOGS. When we have something to look forward to, when you show us things, when you reveal slight details about long term plans, it keeps us interested. Cryptic is pretty good with this, and a bit of improvement can be made, but they are doing pretty good.
STO will only die when Cryptic stops adding end-game content. Period.
of course it is
message boards are dated
let alone game mechanics
one new innovation - bam - gone
maybe a few i suspect
lol
game has a limited lifetime left
you can;t see it you are blind
You confuse what are "facts" with your "opinions".
The whole underlying theme of your response is the programmed or learned behavior of wanting/needing/desiring to obtain everything in the game at as little cost, effort and time as you possibly can expend.
Cryptic knows about that programmed/learned behavior and counts on it to help them make money. They have provided a way in which every single item in game can be obtained either through cost, through effort or through time or some combination of the three means.
If you have an issue with any one of those means, then you have the other two options available to you. If you have an issue with all three means then you're most likely not going to be playing STO very long and you will probably wind up here in the forums trashing the company and other players before you sign off and move along to "greener grass" on the other side of the fence. And I hope you've heard that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.
Will STO be running in a year? Yes.
In two years? Most likely.
In five years? Maybe not.
In ten years? Probably not.
In twenty years? No.
Appearently, you do not like the "ADHD WoW mentality" any better than I do. But you still throw that out as a way to dispel any opinion other than your own and have now at me, twice. "programmed or learned behavior to have everything given to them immediately". That the ADHD mentality I refer to. Wanting everything given to them and now.
Your loss that you never played SWG. No1 got anything "immediately". The jedi grind was months or even years. You ground up 4 random professions out of 32 to unlock and before the holo-grind, you had no idea of which ones they were. Even with the holo-grind, you got 3 of those profs and the 4th was unknown to all but a bunch of laughing devs.
I am now glad to say I've not much of a WoW account to close. It was just never my game. I guess I'm a little to old to play games with elves in them. However, I'm old enough to have an interest in a Star Trek game as I watched the TOS when it was out, originally (not re-runs). And that interest also moved onto Star Wars as the 1st movie was my 1st date with my 2nd wife.
However, with what Cryptic has done with this game, mostly in the administration end, the IP is no longer even a grab for me. I could and did get over the delays in the Cryptic engine, 2nd only to the Hero engine that TOR uses in engine TRIBBLE-ups, but when they start charging $50 for ships and $125.00 for "expansion" packs, I believe I'll take my money down the road. Zinga, I believe, had a study on their F2P games and divulged that only 5% bought anything at their stores. While I would imagine the % in STO tops that a bit, I would imagine the actual percentage isn't all that much over. I utterly refuse to pay higher prices to offset loses from other demographics for virtual items that when the game closes, you basicly lose.
Again, you like it, play it and spend the money. I did for a few years. They got $300 out of me for the Lifer. The post I originally replied to said there was no other MMO alternatives. And for me, at least, there certainly is with more MMOs coming that will not be themepark in nature, P2W items all over their stores, and PVP and even PVE so unbalanced that it's almost unplayable, with high-dollar cash grabs as the norm.
If each instance has an average of 21 people that's only 5000 people which isn't a lot.
Originally, the game had blue and red factions. Now, there's a green fraction, and presumably a yellow, orange or purple fraction in the works as well.
Is this going to be like GW2 legendary weapons? I don't mind working for one, ie I don't "want it now," but I couldn't abide by the fact that the AH price for a precursor was climbing faster than I could accumulate gold, ie I'll "never get it."
That's basically their business model, yes.
That going F2P forces you to prioritize how you spend your limited dilithium shouldn't be a surprise. I find their model in STO to be rather reasonable, actually, despite being a primarily F2P player. If it's really that important to me to have something today, rather than work for item A this week and item B next week, I can begrudgingly pay. Or, I can just accept that I won't have item B for an additional week.
The only real problem is that content feels limited and repetitive. I'll be running essentially the same missions for both items A and B (and C, D, E, etc), and grinding the same content repeatedly becomes tedious.