Pretty simple, Romulans are supposed to be cloaking masters.... Having Rommie, KDF and Fed characters, I'd say the Romulan's cloaking capability along side the negative hits to power they get and the lesser ship selection options certainly doesn't mean they are OP. I see no point in giving the KDF the same abilities simply because it would definitely NOT balance things.
Humans had leadership, that was so OP it had to be nerfed once it got working. Klingon boffs have major advantages on the ground, (although I know it's not worth saying this, because no one plays ground.)
I want a reason, aside from a cloaking device and a slightly different ship to play a character on a Romulan/Klingon. I don't want a clone of my original fed characters just with a slightly different UI colouring.
Each side should be unique with unique gameplay options. This is what brings balance to the game, because they you are comparing apples with oranges. The problem with game balance being broken at the moment is precisely because of people wanting and getting the exact same things across all characters in my opinion.
Umm, ok,, have some coffee and wake up. maybe for you its about having a nice shiny cloak to strut around, but for the majority of the rest of us, its about effectiveness, and that cloak provides no advantage to romulan ships at all. havent you been reading what everyone has written?? If Klingon ships are glass canons, romulan ships are little more than a grahm cracker crust. We crumple real fast. We need that cloak, its the only thing that gives us a chance at survival, because when we fire weapons, our energy drops to almost nothing, and we are completely vulnerable. Now if THATS what you want ( fire weapons and pray no one noticed ) Great, make a romulan character. You'll have your cloak, and all the non existant benefits so many people seem to think we have.. BTW.. My other ships are Botesqu and an Armitage and i personally do NOT see where they are missing anything at all by not having a cloak.. Learn to build your ship right and stop looking for shortcuts..
Hell cloak isn't even balanced around class. In most games with cloak, like WoW, the class that has a permanent cloak is squishy as hell. There's no trade offs in this game for it.
Dodge tank. That is all.
_________________________________________________
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
As someone who has played KDF for some time - I don't really understand the argument for PvE - cloaking in PvE is next to useless - except on the openning salvo - and cloaking during a ESTF can be very dangerous - I have been popped several times cloaking in an ESTF.
So what is the point of this discussion if not about PvP? How would these traits make the KDF better? From my experience most KDF players can Faceroll all the current PvE content - how would giving them more powers/traits really help?
To be totally honest what I was thinking at the time had nothing to do with PVP or PVE.
I looked at some of the Traits that the Romulans were given and wondered where similar traits could be applied to the other factions.
I was not trying to suggest that Romulans have some kind of advantage in PVP or PVE I was just looking at the traits that they had and looking at where they made sense to make use of on the other factions IMO.
I guess either side you stand on be it PVP or PVE the 2 cloaking traits can be quite helpful in the right hands; however, the same argument could be made for any in-game ability.
As to how adding similar traits to the KDF would make them better.
It would help them just about has much has it helps the Romulans but to a somewhat lesser extent since not all KDF vessels have the battle cloak.
To try to summarize the reason I made the OP:
It was not about trying to point out anything about the Romulans being over or under powered, it was more of trying to say hey you guys have come a long way and created some nice BO traits for the Romulans that have never existed before that I think could be applied where it makes sense to the BO of the other factions.
I'd also like to point out that both the Federation and the KDF have numerous BO that come with the Efficient Trait but the Romulans currently only have 2 (unless the Remen have it and I missed it)
Except the Romulans can use Fed/KDF BOffs to get those traits easily. Fed/KDF needs to buy them from the embassy at high prices. The way they've set up the Rommies, there's really no point in making any new character, that isn't a rommie.
Now that the dust from LOR dropping has settled a little (loving it by the way) I thought I'd point out a couple of things that Romulans were given that I feel that the KDF (and for that matter the Feds) deserve has well.
The Romulans got some pretty Sweet Bridge Officer Traits that the KDF should have versions of has well.
The Romulan and Remans get Subterfuge, I feel that the Klingons should get the same skill but it should be renamed "Cunning".
Both the Romulans and the Remans have a version of Romulan Operative and I think that the KDF deserve this skill has well but a again I would rename it something like "Klingon Guile"
The Feds are kind of left out in the cold with the above since they are not known for their cloaking devices.
Another cool trait that the Romulans Bridge officers got was the ground Trait Plasma Weapons Specialist.
I think that both the KDF and Federation should be given Disruptor Weapons Specialist and Phaser Weapons Specialist respectively.
One last ground trait that I noticed that only seems to appear on Romulan BO and the Liberated Romulan Borg Science Officer is the Stasis Expert (not sure if I'm getting the name right) and I'd like to see this trait and others like it added has a possibility to spawn on all Bridge Officers in the game.
Klingons deserve some cloaking specific Traits just has much has the Romulans and Remans do and each faction should have some form of a Ground weapon specialization.
Thanks for your Time
You will have to kiss some fedbuttocks or they will call your idea "unfair" or even "cheating". Wether its worth the effort, I can not say.
Remember, if it doesnt help them then its wrong.
I think that both the KDF and Federation should be given Disruptor Weapons Specialist and Phaser Weapons Specialist respectively.
As some one who stubbornly refuses to use anything but phasers on his feds, disruptors on his klinks, and disruptors on his romulans (Yeah I am a purist) I support this message, but give romulans access to disruptor specialization as well... actually, why not just give us specialization traits for all damage types available to every one? Let people play how they like. Choice is good.
As someone who has played KDF for some time - I don't really understand the argument for PvE - cloaking in PvE is next to useless - except on the openning salvo - and cloaking during a ESTF can be very dangerous - I have been popped several times cloaking in an ESTF.
So what is the point of this discussion if not about PvP? How would these traits make the KDF better? From my experience most KDF players can Faceroll all the current PvE content - how would giving them more powers/traits really help?
Bingo - the OP you quoted is not telling the truth, despite all the denials. You know, theNile isn't just the name of a river in Egypt. Cloaking in PvE is the fastest way to getting popped, especially ESTF where many support boff powers seem to have no effect, including cloaking. NPCs cheat, that's why. And then OP keeps switching back forth, from PvP, to PvE, now to: "Well, I am not really thinking of either..." If that makes any sense, then pigs can fly too.
I was not trying to suggest that Romulans have some kind of advantage in PVP or PVE I was just looking at the traits that they had and looking at where they made sense to make use of on the other factions IMO.
Really? The title says is all : Wait Romulans get What?!?!?!
You can continue to waffle all you want, your latest "explanation" is in direct contrast to the title you chose to give to this thread.
Oh, I hate the Dhelan, but thats purely an aesthetic thing with me.. Actually my refit mogai and refit d'dex are quite alright for builds, but my feds armitage could flatten either one of them..
Its called balance. He's not asking for it to be taken away (although whether these traits should exist for ANYONE is debatable as they make all other boffs GARBAGE), but rather for them to be available to all. Just as all other traits are available to Romulan players.
Balance is something this game has struggled with since its launch, its usually perceived to favor the smaller or newer faction in order to promote sales and/or encourage more players to join it.
All it really does is cause resentment all around. The devs think that because they have given certain play/grind advantages to the smaller group of players they make up for not making any content for them later on; the smaller group of players feels resentment at being ignored and feel like second class citizens; and the larger group of players feels that its unfair that others get play/grind advantages.
Balance is having an effective counter to an ability,trait or weapon....having everything exactly the same isn't 'balance',it would take excitement away from the game not add to it,it would make the game just boring.
If you really want balance,think of some clever new ways to get just that.
The PWE/Cryptic sweatshop...not where the game is made,but where the game is played!
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
Bingo - the OP you quoted is not telling the truth, despite all the denials. You know, theNile isn't just the name of a river in Egypt. Cloaking in PvE is the fastest way to getting popped, especially ESTF where many support boff powers seem to have no effect, including cloaking. NPCs cheat, that's why. And then OP keeps switching back forth, from PvP, to PvE, now to: "Well, I am not really thinking of either..." If that makes any sense, then pigs can fly too.
Dude what the heck are you smoking
Never once did I say this was about PVP or PVE it was just a thought that I had to give the KDF and the Federation some similar traits to what the Romulans had where it made sense to me and that was it.
You can spin my words anyway that you want but don't try to tell me what I did or did not say.
Now that the dust from LOR dropping has settled a little (loving it by the way) I thought I'd point out a couple of things that Romulans were given that I feel that the KDF (and for that matter the Feds) deserve has well.
The Romulans got some pretty Sweet Bridge Officer Traits that the KDF should have versions of has well.
The Romulan and Remans get Subterfuge, I feel that the Klingons should get the same skill but it should be renamed "Cunning".
Both the Romulans and the Remans have a version of Romulan Operative and I think that the KDF deserve this skill has well but a again I would rename it something like "Klingon Guile"
The Feds are kind of left out in the cold with the above since they are not known for their cloaking devices.
Another cool trait that the Romulans Bridge officers got was the ground Trait Plasma Weapons Specialist.
I think that both the KDF and Federation should be given Disruptor Weapons Specialist and Phaser Weapons Specialist respectively.
One last ground trait that I noticed that only seems to appear on Romulan BO and the Liberated Romulan Borg Science Officer is the Stasis Expert (not sure if I'm getting the name right) and I'd like to see this trait and others like it added has a possibility to spawn on all Bridge Officers in the game.
Klingons deserve some cloaking specific Traits just has much has the Romulans and Remans do and each faction should have some form of a Ground weapon specialization.
Thanks for your Time
I agree with most of this.
But the cloaking traits for Klingons shouldn't be as powerful as Romulan ones, they are the cloaking masters afterall. MAybe give them a 50% reduction and only apply for Tactical officers to make things different. :P
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
But the cloaking traits for Klingons shouldn't be as powerful as Romulan ones, they are the cloaking masters afterall. MAybe give them a 50% reduction and only apply for Tactical officers to make things different. :P
Because Tacs totally need MORE advantages over every other career...
The only comment I will say on Rom vs Other(s) is a new lvl 50 Rommie will have over 12% crit chance while the other two will struggle to hit double digit when they just hit level 50.
It's not that the other two can't get above that, but even decked out, the other two factions cannot get their crit rate up to where a Rommie can, which is pushing 20% crit. (that's 1 in 5 shots crits folks)
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Romulans need to have some sort of attraction to make people want to play them. Currently, that attraction is the Crit advantages they have over the other races. What's so bad about that? Eventually the Cardi's will be released with all sorts of sweet bonuses and people will be up in arms again.
If Klingons got a special space skill it should be more like 'Ferocity' or 'Tenacity', increasing damage / hit points respectively. Higher hit points might reflect the willingness of the crew to hang in there and die at their posts.
Feds, of course, should get 'Cuddly' or 'Brave Sir Robin'....
This. I'm a BoP pilot in PvP, and I don't really mind the Romulans having an edge in subterfuge, decloak-attacking, etc. It's what they do. However, I also think both the KDF and Federation should receive similarly unique bonuses of their own. I like this 'ferocity' or 'tenacity' concept you mentioned. In all seriousness, Federation could get boosts to science or engineering capabilities, or some other boost that isn't necessarily about firepower.
Or they could have an ability called 'Negotiate surrender' that placates the enemy for 5 seconds, allowing the Federation ship to pull some sort of nifty maneuver to disable the enemy.
Oh, I hate the Dhelan, but thats purely an aesthetic thing with me.. Actually my refit mogai and refit d'dex are quite alright for builds, but my feds armitage could flatten either one of them..
odd you should mention that.
My Retrofit D'deridex has flattened pretty much every kind of ship (except JHAS) in PvP. I also did it all without a good space set (MACO, OMEGA, Borg set etc)
Romulan ships are great and I wouldn't trade mine for anything. That said they also have some glaring weaknesses too in the power department.
Overall I find the factions to be fairly balanced. I have been killed several times and I have blown up several enemies as well. The Federatiion has lots of ship options, different BOFF loadouts and many T5 unique console choices which nobody else can have.
The Klingons have EXCELLENT battlecruisers which can outpace the Romulan counterparts and the best carrier options in the game.
Each faction has their own strengths. I really don't see how the Romulans are any different.
My Retrofit D'deridex has flattened pretty much every kind of ship (except JHAS) in PvP. I also did it all without a good space set (MACO, OMEGA, Borg set etc)
Romulan ships are great and I wouldn't trade mine for anything. That said they also have some glaring weaknesses too in the power department.
Overall I find the factions to be fairly balanced. I have been killed several times and I have blown up several enemies as well. The Federatiion has lots of ship options, different BOFF loadouts and many T5 unique console choices which nobody else can have.
The Klingons have EXCELLENT battlecruisers which can outpace the Romulan counterparts and the best carrier options in the game.
Each faction has their own strengths. I really don't see how the Romulans are any different.
exactly.. Like I said the D'Dex of mine has done over 40K damage in one shot and without maco borg or omega.. Its an awesome ship, but the Bort is better and my armitage, especially the one on Tribble could flatten it in a heartbeat.. Of course my armitage is beyond being a glass canon.. sneeze at it wrong and it blows uop.. Its all raw power with no defenses to speak of..
The mogai has the turn rate of a K'tinga. I put the best engines in it i can afford and every time the stats for the engine get changed downward for speed and turn rate.. Its downside is that its got four tetryon canons on the front to knock out shields but nothing for hull penetration.. Thats going to get changed tonight. still, its averaging between 1250 - 1400 dps.. It simply isnt doing the job i want it too with the efficiency i want it to have..
Oh, I hate the Dhelan, but thats purely an aesthetic thing with me.. Actually my refit mogai and refit d'dex are quite alright for builds, but my feds armitage could flatten either one of them..
It doesn't look nearly as bad if you change the wings out, also the Dhael hull looks better then the default one too.
Comments
I want a reason, aside from a cloaking device and a slightly different ship to play a character on a Romulan/Klingon. I don't want a clone of my original fed characters just with a slightly different UI colouring.
Each side should be unique with unique gameplay options. This is what brings balance to the game, because they you are comparing apples with oranges. The problem with game balance being broken at the moment is precisely because of people wanting and getting the exact same things across all characters in my opinion.
Your build must suck. My Fleet Dhelan is badass.
Dodge tank. That is all.
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
To be totally honest what I was thinking at the time had nothing to do with PVP or PVE.
I looked at some of the Traits that the Romulans were given and wondered where similar traits could be applied to the other factions.
I was not trying to suggest that Romulans have some kind of advantage in PVP or PVE I was just looking at the traits that they had and looking at where they made sense to make use of on the other factions IMO.
I guess either side you stand on be it PVP or PVE the 2 cloaking traits can be quite helpful in the right hands; however, the same argument could be made for any in-game ability.
As to how adding similar traits to the KDF would make them better.
It would help them just about has much has it helps the Romulans but to a somewhat lesser extent since not all KDF vessels have the battle cloak.
To try to summarize the reason I made the OP:
It was not about trying to point out anything about the Romulans being over or under powered, it was more of trying to say hey you guys have come a long way and created some nice BO traits for the Romulans that have never existed before that I think could be applied where it makes sense to the BO of the other factions.
I'd also like to point out that both the Federation and the KDF have numerous BO that come with the Efficient Trait but the Romulans currently only have 2 (unless the Remen have it and I missed it)
Remember, if it doesnt help them then its wrong.
I like the Disruptor/Phaser specialist idea.
R.I.P
As some one who stubbornly refuses to use anything but phasers on his feds, disruptors on his klinks, and disruptors on his romulans (Yeah I am a purist) I support this message, but give romulans access to disruptor specialization as well... actually, why not just give us specialization traits for all damage types available to every one? Let people play how they like. Choice is good.
Bingo - the OP you quoted is not telling the truth, despite all the denials. You know, theNile isn't just the name of a river in Egypt. Cloaking in PvE is the fastest way to getting popped, especially ESTF where many support boff powers seem to have no effect, including cloaking. NPCs cheat, that's why. And then OP keeps switching back forth, from PvP, to PvE, now to: "Well, I am not really thinking of either..." If that makes any sense, then pigs can fly too.
Really? The title says is all : Wait Romulans get What?!?!?!
You can continue to waffle all you want, your latest "explanation" is in direct contrast to the title you chose to give to this thread.
Oh, I hate the Dhelan, but thats purely an aesthetic thing with me.. Actually my refit mogai and refit d'dex are quite alright for builds, but my feds armitage could flatten either one of them..
Its called 'balance'.
The same idiotic reason why Feds got all the good KDF consoles via the lockbox and KDF got all the trash Fed consoles in return.
Balance is having an effective counter to an ability,trait or weapon....having everything exactly the same isn't 'balance',it would take excitement away from the game not add to it,it would make the game just boring.
If you really want balance,think of some clever new ways to get just that.
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
Dude what the heck are you smoking
Never once did I say this was about PVP or PVE it was just a thought that I had to give the KDF and the Federation some similar traits to what the Romulans had where it made sense to me and that was it.
You can spin my words anyway that you want but don't try to tell me what I did or did not say.
I agree with most of this.
But the cloaking traits for Klingons shouldn't be as powerful as Romulan ones, they are the cloaking masters afterall. MAybe give them a 50% reduction and only apply for Tactical officers to make things different. :P
Because Tacs totally need MORE advantages over every other career...
It's not that the other two can't get above that, but even decked out, the other two factions cannot get their crit rate up to where a Rommie can, which is pushing 20% crit. (that's 1 in 5 shots crits folks)
This. I'm a BoP pilot in PvP, and I don't really mind the Romulans having an edge in subterfuge, decloak-attacking, etc. It's what they do. However, I also think both the KDF and Federation should receive similarly unique bonuses of their own. I like this 'ferocity' or 'tenacity' concept you mentioned. In all seriousness, Federation could get boosts to science or engineering capabilities, or some other boost that isn't necessarily about firepower.
Or they could have an ability called 'Negotiate surrender' that placates the enemy for 5 seconds, allowing the Federation ship to pull some sort of nifty maneuver to disable the enemy.
odd you should mention that.
My Retrofit D'deridex has flattened pretty much every kind of ship (except JHAS) in PvP. I also did it all without a good space set (MACO, OMEGA, Borg set etc)
Romulan ships are great and I wouldn't trade mine for anything. That said they also have some glaring weaknesses too in the power department.
Overall I find the factions to be fairly balanced. I have been killed several times and I have blown up several enemies as well. The Federatiion has lots of ship options, different BOFF loadouts and many T5 unique console choices which nobody else can have.
The Klingons have EXCELLENT battlecruisers which can outpace the Romulan counterparts and the best carrier options in the game.
Each faction has their own strengths. I really don't see how the Romulans are any different.
exactly.. Like I said the D'Dex of mine has done over 40K damage in one shot and without maco borg or omega.. Its an awesome ship, but the Bort is better and my armitage, especially the one on Tribble could flatten it in a heartbeat.. Of course my armitage is beyond being a glass canon.. sneeze at it wrong and it blows uop.. Its all raw power with no defenses to speak of..
The mogai has the turn rate of a K'tinga. I put the best engines in it i can afford and every time the stats for the engine get changed downward for speed and turn rate.. Its downside is that its got four tetryon canons on the front to knock out shields but nothing for hull penetration.. Thats going to get changed tonight. still, its averaging between 1250 - 1400 dps.. It simply isnt doing the job i want it too with the efficiency i want it to have..
must not have had superiour op- or you got riipped off - they go for 15 million+
How did I get that boff in the first place? Was it a doff assignment?
Level up and get luck with a Bridge Officer having it.
or
If you're a Klink, roll a Rommie, then join KDF.
Fly a warbird for a while, then realize you can't have it both ways.
Yep to many people want to have the same things other sides get. Each faction needs its own identity and its own unique stuff outside of ships.
Just look at all the threads about Romulans not having access to tier 5 Fed/Klingon ships.
Like the way the KDF was the only faction with carriers, battlecloaks, and universal station ships?
Oh ... wait ... hmmmm.
It doesn't look nearly as bad if you change the wings out, also the Dhael hull looks better then the default one too.
3 million?? bro i sold 2 of mine for 13.5 mill each (Tac) and the other for 12 mill(sci) lasted all of one day in the ah