Solution. We should be able to turn them into Soylent Doffs, which can only be fed to fleet holding projects.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
99 is the currently the highest amount you can have in a stack of doffs and increasing that stack number would be immensely helpful.
Don't be disengenous with your comments. If you read my quote you will see I never said that doff packages can't be stacked. I said that wasn't a pressing storage issue, the problem lies in opening you stacked boxes/package and the resulting doffs that come out that can't be stacked. Most people open boxes and packs when they acquire them because of a need and because the results are unpredictable they may need multiple opening to acquire the doff they are after which results in leftovers that create a storage issue.
Not being disingenuous, I simply don't see the need to open those packs unless there's an actual need to use them. That character is on tribble and doesn't use them so the packs stacked up.
On the Holodeck I only open a pack if I need it and I get rid of the extra asap by giving it to the fleet, selling it cheap on the exchange, or recycling/deleting it.
I get annoyed by clutter in my storage so much that I do a "spring" cleaning every couple months and empty my bins of everything.
I have a need, say 10 medical doffs to finish off a starbase project. That doesn't mean I only have to open 10 science/medical boxes. It may take me 20 or 30 or more openings to achieve those 10 doffs that are actually needed. Heck, with the limited doff space I may not be able to open enough boxes to fill the need. That leaves me with 10 or 20 or more doffs just sitting there that I am forced into dealing with. I may not have exchange space and now that mail is restricted I can't easily park them there. That is the storage issue we face, doffs once created that are difficult to deal with.
75 recruitment xp and 5 dil are not adequate compensation for 700FC. I cannot grind them up because that takes 500 dil per move and only produces a green which is only worth 35-100k. There are tons of white science and tac doffs so they move infrequently and I generally have more valuable things to sell than a 5,000 EC white sci doff.
Well I can see what they will give you people who want more storage for DOFF's. "A brand spankin new bank! 100 doffs can be stored there and upgrade to 200 slots for 500 zen with 4 upgrades only. Need more space? Buy more character slots!".
Here is the thing people, If your fleet does not contribute to DOFF's or a ceartain type of DOFF and you keep filling that project, you are empowering them to not fill it by doing it yourself. Send a rant on your fleet channel stating you will no longer be filling DOFF's for fleet projects and everyone needs to contribute. If the project never gets completed then simply find a new fleet or just ignore the uncompleted projects. eventualy people will get the point and start contributing. 100 fleet members, 1 project requires 100 doffs means you contribute 1. not 50 or 75 or 10. Just a single lonely doff. Think about it, you filling that part and nobody else makes you a tool they are using.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Well I can see what they will give you people who want more storage for DOFF's. "A brand spankin new bank! 100 doffs can be stored there and upgrade to 200 slots for 500 zen with 4 upgrades only. Need more space? Buy more character slots!".
Here is the thing people, If your fleet does not contribute to DOFF's or a ceartain type of DOFF and you keep filling that project, you are empowering them to not fill it by doing it yourself. Send a rant on your fleet channel stating you will no longer be filling DOFF's for fleet projects and everyone needs to contribute. If the project never gets completed then simply find a new fleet or just ignore the uncompleted projects. eventualy people will get the point and start contributing. 100 fleet members, 1 project requires 100 doffs means you contribute 1. not 50 or 75 or 10. Just a single lonely doff. Think about it, you filling that part and nobody else makes you a tool they are using.
More characters compounds the mail issue. Attachment limits are account wide, not character wide so as you add another character, your overall attachment slot availablity goes down. For example you have 100 slots among 4 characters, that is 25 attachments per account, if you add a 5th character, the slots are divided 5 ways for 20 attachements. Yes storage characters or dil refiners will be played less, but they are still using the markets and moving things around means you have to spend more time clearing the mail before you can send the next batch of items. So while you are improving potential storage, you are amplifiying other problems. Furthermore I know have to spend more time switching characters to find the exact one that is storing what I need which takes valuable time away from my playing.
Now on to your fleet criticism. I have time and effort invested in my fleet. We are nearly maxed out, and people are contributing valuable dil, marks, commodities, etc. It is just those darn medical and security doffs are so hard to get and most people don't like dealing with the management of doffs. If I can fill a project immediately, that means the project finishes faster and we are one step closer. If I wait, we are losing time on getting our base maxed. Filling something makes me a resource for the fleet and appreciated. If you want to be a fleet leach only doing the easy stuff and reaping the rewards that is fine, I prefer to contribute.
Well I can see what they will give you people who want more storage for DOFF's. "A brand spankin new bank! 100 doffs can be stored there and upgrade to 200 slots for 500 zen with 4 upgrades only. Need more space? Buy more character slots!".
Here is the thing people, If your fleet does not contribute to DOFF's or a ceartain type of DOFF and you keep filling that project, you are empowering them to not fill it by doing it yourself. Send a rant on your fleet channel stating you will no longer be filling DOFF's for fleet projects and everyone needs to contribute. If the project never gets completed then simply find a new fleet or just ignore the uncompleted projects. eventualy people will get the point and start contributing. 100 fleet members, 1 project requires 100 doffs means you contribute 1. not 50 or 75 or 10. Just a single lonely doff. Think about it, you filling that part and nobody else makes you a tool they are using.
You must not have made it to Tier 4 or 5 yet in a fleet. 100 doffs is low. Also, I can not expect every one of my fleet mates to donate just 1 doff to a project. We have new players that have very little to offer at first and we do not expect them to give what they cannot afford.
I've also stored doff and made announcements to the fleet, if anyone need fleet credits, to contact me. I will gladly give the low ranking players things like doffs so they have something to contribute without hurting their own crew needs for doff missions.
STO offers very little dilithium for dismissing doffs and most high end players do not need the energy credits from selling them on the exchange. If I could turn in common doff for more than just 5 unrefined dilithium, or at least make it refined dilithium, it might make it worthwhile not to hold on to them. Right now with the new mail attachment cap I have no options.
After deleting all my expired exchange mail items, I have 10 mails. 9 of which hold about 27 doffs (the 10th holds a boff).
I can't even mail myself one more doff. So is there a new limit on doffs? I only hit this since the recent patch.
All I wanted to do was to transfer the results of two KDF captain's recruitment assignments to two ROM captains. So I had to run another copy of STO, mail stuff from my primary account to the free alt account, then mail it back.
Funny thing is, I found this to be so much more convenient and quicker to boot. I already play in 'Windowed' mode so I don't have to ALT-TAB, just click on the relevant STO icon on the taskbar (like what I already do, switching between CO (to delete mail in STO) and NW (to farm AD... by invoking every 60 mins)). And this way, I don't have to /gotocharacterselect and lose the results of 'Request Duty Officers' (to show which doffs I just got).
Was this intentional? Is Cryptic going to bar access by multiple accounts using the same IP (hopefully the devs will know how to account for gateway vs gameclient.exe access)?
The only fly in the ointment is that you can run multiple copies of the patcher (unless you use the free copy of virtual machine included in every version of Win7 and later).
Dear Cryptic, why not just let people store unbound doff/boffs in the account bank? You won't have to worry about players stuffing the bank full of doffs since... the bank is kinda small. Especially the account bank.
Is Cryptic going to bar access by multiple accounts using the same IP (hopefully the devs will know how to account for gateway vs gameclient.exe access)?
Probably not; the performance impacts on the database for two accounts being within the limits are very different than for one account having a gigantic database footprint. In other words, replacing your old 500 email account with 5 accounts with 100 emails each is MUCH less of a performance issue, so there's no reason they'd care about that.
As long as you're not creating the new accounts to get around a ban, I doubt they'd care.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Probably not; the performance impacts on the database for two accounts being within the limits are very different than for one account having a gigantic database footprint. In other words, replacing your old 500 email account with 5 accounts with 100 emails each is MUCH less of a performance issue, so there's no reason they'd care about that.
As long as you're not creating the new accounts to get around a ban, I doubt they'd care.
If that's true then it's a clear case of a poorly designed mail system. I also don't remember hearing any rumor that the email limit was changed to 100, it was the attachment limit that was changed (based on rumor ONLY).
I just find it strange that you say it's OK to create additional free accounts to work around this fixed game mechanic when it's obvious to me that it's an exploit, even bigger than the one that didn't exist for 3+ years in the mail system. For every free account set up to exploit this new limit your not only getting 100 extra attachment slots but 300 DOFF slots, 300 bank slots, 150 inventory slots, and many BOFF slots as well as 30 million EC storage.
But i experience, that the mail is indeed now way faster than before. So maybe their mail-system is really that poorly designed and loses much more performance with many mails/attachements at a single account than with more accounts with a smaller inbox.
Probably not; the performance impacts on the database for two accounts being within the limits are very different than for one account having a gigantic database footprint. In other words, replacing your old 500 email account with 5 accounts with 100 emails each is MUCH less of a performance issue, so there's no reason they'd care about that.
As long as you're not creating the new accounts to get around a ban, I doubt they'd care.
"Probably" is not very satisfying.
in the most recent interview Dstahl was noting how STO is very database intensive per character/account.
PWE has a pretty clear policy on the issue, it would be nice if Cryptic did too
i have to say, i ran into this problem yesterday..
i was trying to get 2 scorpion fighters for one of my chars..
i had everything but the 60 doffs..
in my bank i have about 60 of those doff packs.. i would have loved to use them. but instead i had to buy 60 white engineers from the ex .. ONE AT A TIME.. cause i didnt have the space.
it cost me hella, when i could have opened up the doff packs i had to see if i could have gotten some that way.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I really wish we would have gotten a response from a developer about these valuable suggestions that would allow them to monitize a needed storage solution. The lack of a storage solution for doffs has really slowed me down trying to support my fleet.
If they don't explain the rules, how do we know if there's a problem? It's just common sense. Today, like always, I put my loot from Defera in the mail to give it to a vendor on DS9 when I was finished. I got to a point where the mail would simply not send, nothing..not even an empty email. Is this a bug, is something wrong..how am I or anyone else supposed to know?
I deleted a few items in inv and took a few separate emails of Tal Shiar boxes, less than one stack of 20 for each email. Then I was able to attach and send three more emails with five attachments each. Re-took everything in the replicator to inv and zoomed over to DS9.
When I got to DS9 I cashed in my loot and went to clean some old boffs I had pre LoR in the mail. Could not take but was able to delete?
My point is again Cryptic..is how are we supposed to play by the rules if we don't know what they are?
A Developer or Manager really needs to address this issue and explain how it's supposed to work now.
IIRC dropping loot after picking it up nets 50% of item face value. I've not checked on that value in a while but I remember it being substantial compared to the majority of vendor offers to buy your loot. I've been dropping everything lately except blues and purples. Green mk12 gear isn't worth anything on the exchange anyway.
and are you guys still getting double-emails on returned items?
I get one email with no attachment, and then another one with the attachment, same timestamp.
After I retrieve the attachment, and delete the message, I can't delete the other one.
I have to exit mail, go back in, and the duplicate email is now gone. And, the cycle continues for every returned exchange item I get.
It seems like the same message is being indexed twice, so when I delete one, the remaining duplicate stays in the list, even tho that message is gone, which would explain why exiting and reloading mail, clears the duplicate out.
Comments
Don't be disengenous with your comments. If you read my quote you will see I never said that doff packages can't be stacked. I said that wasn't a pressing storage issue, the problem lies in opening you stacked boxes/package and the resulting doffs that come out that can't be stacked. Most people open boxes and packs when they acquire them because of a need and because the results are unpredictable they may need multiple opening to acquire the doff they are after which results in leftovers that create a storage issue.
I have a need, say 10 medical doffs to finish off a starbase project. That doesn't mean I only have to open 10 science/medical boxes. It may take me 20 or 30 or more openings to achieve those 10 doffs that are actually needed. Heck, with the limited doff space I may not be able to open enough boxes to fill the need. That leaves me with 10 or 20 or more doffs just sitting there that I am forced into dealing with. I may not have exchange space and now that mail is restricted I can't easily park them there. That is the storage issue we face, doffs once created that are difficult to deal with.
75 recruitment xp and 5 dil are not adequate compensation for 700FC. I cannot grind them up because that takes 500 dil per move and only produces a green which is only worth 35-100k. There are tons of white science and tac doffs so they move infrequently and I generally have more valuable things to sell than a 5,000 EC white sci doff.
Here is the thing people, If your fleet does not contribute to DOFF's or a ceartain type of DOFF and you keep filling that project, you are empowering them to not fill it by doing it yourself. Send a rant on your fleet channel stating you will no longer be filling DOFF's for fleet projects and everyone needs to contribute. If the project never gets completed then simply find a new fleet or just ignore the uncompleted projects. eventualy people will get the point and start contributing. 100 fleet members, 1 project requires 100 doffs means you contribute 1. not 50 or 75 or 10. Just a single lonely doff. Think about it, you filling that part and nobody else makes you a tool they are using.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
More characters compounds the mail issue. Attachment limits are account wide, not character wide so as you add another character, your overall attachment slot availablity goes down. For example you have 100 slots among 4 characters, that is 25 attachments per account, if you add a 5th character, the slots are divided 5 ways for 20 attachements. Yes storage characters or dil refiners will be played less, but they are still using the markets and moving things around means you have to spend more time clearing the mail before you can send the next batch of items. So while you are improving potential storage, you are amplifiying other problems. Furthermore I know have to spend more time switching characters to find the exact one that is storing what I need which takes valuable time away from my playing.
Now on to your fleet criticism. I have time and effort invested in my fleet. We are nearly maxed out, and people are contributing valuable dil, marks, commodities, etc. It is just those darn medical and security doffs are so hard to get and most people don't like dealing with the management of doffs. If I can fill a project immediately, that means the project finishes faster and we are one step closer. If I wait, we are losing time on getting our base maxed. Filling something makes me a resource for the fleet and appreciated. If you want to be a fleet leach only doing the easy stuff and reaping the rewards that is fine, I prefer to contribute.
You must not have made it to Tier 4 or 5 yet in a fleet. 100 doffs is low. Also, I can not expect every one of my fleet mates to donate just 1 doff to a project. We have new players that have very little to offer at first and we do not expect them to give what they cannot afford.
I've also stored doff and made announcements to the fleet, if anyone need fleet credits, to contact me. I will gladly give the low ranking players things like doffs so they have something to contribute without hurting their own crew needs for doff missions.
STO offers very little dilithium for dismissing doffs and most high end players do not need the energy credits from selling them on the exchange. If I could turn in common doff for more than just 5 unrefined dilithium, or at least make it refined dilithium, it might make it worthwhile not to hold on to them. Right now with the new mail attachment cap I have no options.
I can't even mail myself one more doff. So is there a new limit on doffs? I only hit this since the recent patch.
All I wanted to do was to transfer the results of two KDF captain's recruitment assignments to two ROM captains. So I had to run another copy of STO, mail stuff from my primary account to the free alt account, then mail it back.
Funny thing is, I found this to be so much more convenient and quicker to boot. I already play in 'Windowed' mode so I don't have to ALT-TAB, just click on the relevant STO icon on the taskbar (like what I already do, switching between CO (to delete mail in STO) and NW (to farm AD... by invoking every 60 mins)). And this way, I don't have to /gotocharacterselect and lose the results of 'Request Duty Officers' (to show which doffs I just got).
Was this intentional? Is Cryptic going to bar access by multiple accounts using the same IP (hopefully the devs will know how to account for gateway vs gameclient.exe access)?
The only fly in the ointment is that you can run multiple copies of the patcher (unless you use the free copy of virtual machine included in every version of Win7 and later).
Dear Cryptic, why not just let people store unbound doff/boffs in the account bank? You won't have to worry about players stuffing the bank full of doffs since... the bank is kinda small. Especially the account bank.
Probably not; the performance impacts on the database for two accounts being within the limits are very different than for one account having a gigantic database footprint. In other words, replacing your old 500 email account with 5 accounts with 100 emails each is MUCH less of a performance issue, so there's no reason they'd care about that.
As long as you're not creating the new accounts to get around a ban, I doubt they'd care.
If that's true then it's a clear case of a poorly designed mail system. I also don't remember hearing any rumor that the email limit was changed to 100, it was the attachment limit that was changed (based on rumor ONLY).
I just find it strange that you say it's OK to create additional free accounts to work around this fixed game mechanic when it's obvious to me that it's an exploit, even bigger than the one that didn't exist for 3+ years in the mail system. For every free account set up to exploit this new limit your not only getting 100 extra attachment slots but 300 DOFF slots, 300 bank slots, 150 inventory slots, and many BOFF slots as well as 30 million EC storage.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
But i experience, that the mail is indeed now way faster than before. So maybe their mail-system is really that poorly designed and loses much more performance with many mails/attachements at a single account than with more accounts with a smaller inbox.
bank of Zurich
bank of Cayman Islands
bank of America
:cool:
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
"Probably" is not very satisfying.
in the most recent interview Dstahl was noting how STO is very database intensive per character/account.
PWE has a pretty clear policy on the issue, it would be nice if Cryptic did too
i was trying to get 2 scorpion fighters for one of my chars..
i had everything but the 60 doffs..
in my bank i have about 60 of those doff packs.. i would have loved to use them. but instead i had to buy 60 white engineers from the ex .. ONE AT A TIME.. cause i didnt have the space.
it cost me hella, when i could have opened up the doff packs i had to see if i could have gotten some that way.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
IIRC dropping loot after picking it up nets 50% of item face value. I've not checked on that value in a while but I remember it being substantial compared to the majority of vendor offers to buy your loot. I've been dropping everything lately except blues and purples. Green mk12 gear isn't worth anything on the exchange anyway.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I get one email with no attachment, and then another one with the attachment, same timestamp.
After I retrieve the attachment, and delete the message, I can't delete the other one.
I have to exit mail, go back in, and the duplicate email is now gone. And, the cycle continues for every returned exchange item I get.
It seems like the same message is being indexed twice, so when I delete one, the remaining duplicate stays in the list, even tho that message is gone, which would explain why exiting and reloading mail, clears the duplicate out.
-- Smoov