Or what someone else suggested (I forget who had this suggestion) make a starbase doff compactor. Donate the officers to a starbase assignment office, you turn them in, they turn to tokens, so 1 white gets 1 credit, a green gets 2, a blue gets 4, and a purple gets 8 (or something like that). The amount of tokens generated would be like a currency so there is no storage issue and then you turn in the credits for the area when the assignment comes up. Simple, straightforward, and allows using up of all types of doffs in all areas to help regulate doff costs.
It requires some programing and doesn't generate incomes so it isn't as attractive. However it would be a solution. All I am looking for is a in game method so that I can continue to support fleet growth. Restriction on doff storage space in the mail creates a problem for many players that only can be solved through inefficient and potentially explotiative measures such as creating many account only for doff storage.
No offense, thats just a really bad idea. Especially when the concensus of the playerbase wants less currencies. (Tons of people think we got too many already).
And it does not solve the storage problem. It just makes things overly complicated. Keep it simple.
You all are deliberately exploiting a loophole in the game by using a COMMUNICATION system to STORE your own items. You probably do the same on the exchange, right? Use it to store even more items?
And you complain when that loophole gets a little smaller. Not closed, not fixed, not taken away from you, just reduced in size. And you're complaining that you can't cheat Cryptic's storage limits as much as you used to.
The Mailsystem has worked as intended over 3,5 years. The ONLY reasen it is no declared as exploit and not working as intended from PWE is that they will force players to buy more bank slots.
But it will not work, if cryptic will look at the items they are stored in the mailsystem they will see its a horrible number of doffs with no use at this point, no player need hundereds of civilian, science and tactical doffs but we get them.
As long Cryptic will not bring a usefull solution to this problem they will hurt himself. Players learn and adapt to new situations. They will buy lesser doff packs if they have no way to storage them, the will create storage f2p accounts, or will leave.
We have give cryptic enough got hints to solve the problem, but its looks like the dont care about it.
they are so many ways to help use so we dont need the horrible mailsystem anymore for doff storage.
- increase the limit of doff slots we can buy
- sepearte doff storage like bank / accountbank for easy transfer of doffs
- convert mission to get tokens for doffs that then can be easy put in a bank
- doff missions to convert one typ of doffs to another that is more usefull
- put the project slots of tac/sec, sci/med, eng/ops on one slot that we dont have store so many doffs of one type that we not need for a longer time.
- a queue system on the fleet so put doffs in that than can automatic will be used if needed (but this will not fix the problem if we have millions of doffs that we cant use for projects sci, civil)
Pls Cryptic do something or all of this to help us.
The Mailsystem has worked as intended over 3,5 years. The ONLY reasen it is no declared as exploit and not working as intended from PWE is that they will force players to buy more bank slots.
But it will not work, if cryptic will look at the items they are stored in the mailsystem they will see its a horrible number of doffs with no use at this point, no player need hundereds of civilian, science and tactical doffs but we get them.
As long Cryptic will not bring a usefull solution to this problem they will hurt himself. Players learn and adapt to new situations. They will buy lesser doff packs if they have no way to storage them, the will create storage f2p accounts, or will leave.
We have give cryptic enough got hints to solve the problem, but its looks like the dont care about it.
they are so many ways to help use so we dont need the horrible mailsystem anymore for doff storage.
- increase the limit of doff slots we can buy
- sepearte doff storage like bank / accountbank for easy transfer of doffs
- convert mission to get tokens for doffs that then can be easy put in a bank
- doff missions to convert one typ of doffs to another that is more usefull
- put the project slots of tac/sec, sci/med, eng/ops on one slot that we dont have store so many doffs of one type that we not need for a longer time.
- a queue system on the fleet so put doffs in that than can automatic will be used if needed (but this will not fix the problem if we have millions of doffs that we cant use for projects sci, civil)
Pls Cryptic do something or all of this to help us.
You all are deliberately exploiting a loophole in the game by using a COMMUNICATION system to STORE your own items. You probably do the same on the exchange, right? Use it to store even more items?
And you complain when that loophole gets a little smaller. Not closed, not fixed, not taken away from you, just reduced in size. And you're complaining that you can't cheat Cryptic's storage limits as much as you used to.
:rolleyes:
---
Here's a hint: accounts are free. Make some more.
Nowhere but in your mind and a few of the developers ardent defenders was the use of mail for years to store attachments an exploit. If it was an exploit, why weren't our accounts banned? Where was the announcement that the mail system was not designed for this? No developer has even responded in an official manner regarding this. We have a vague statement on twitter saying it was intended, but not the reasoning behind it. The only way to defend the unannounced and crippling actions by the developers is to somehow classify this action that most players have done as an exploit. I don't believe that is supported by the evidence.
As far as your solution to create more accounts. Is that the far more exploit oriented solution. Flood the system with dummy accounts who sole purpose is storage? It is a time consuming process to change accounts merely to try and store doffs and ultimately doesn't solve the issue when many people have their accounts with a very small attachment limit since account mail is linked. As someone has stated, they have 10 characters on 1 account. Is 2 mails with 5 attachments for each character a fair and reasonable amount? At the very least each character needs to have 100 attachments if only to hand exchange sales and the requirements of playing the game.
No one can thing the manner in which this was done was fair and equitable to the players. Many have revealed the problems with this change and the difficulties it creates. It is necessary that there are some new mechanisms discussed in this thread be implimented to address the problems created by this change.
Nowhere but in your mind and a few of the developers ardent defenders was the use of mail for years to store attachments an exploit. If it was an exploit, why weren't our accounts banned?
Please quote me where I actually called it an exploit. I'll wait.
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Couldn't find it? Hmm, could it be because I didn't actually call it an exploit (and therefore a bannable offense)? I called it a "loophole" because it's a more or less harmless bug in the game code. Nothing that gives you an innate advantage in anything except item storage, which doesn't give you any edge in combat.
Also, while a dummy account may seem cumbersome to you (though I don't know how, more on that in a minute), it's actually in Cryptic and PWE's best interests. The more "active" accounts (i.e. those that have been logged in "recently"), the better their quarterly reports look to investors, even if those "active" accounts haven't actually spent any money. You'd be doing them a favor, not a disservice.
Now, about the "cumbersome" argument... I don't know about you, but I would find it terribly annoying to go through a whole bunch of mail attachments trying to find a DOFF or set of DOFFs. It would be much easier to just switch to a new character (or account) and be able to use the DOFF sorting system inherent to your DOFF roster. That, and I wouldn't have to juggle my existing roster in order to make room for whatever DOFFs I want to donate - I could just donate them directly from my storage "mule" character.
---
I honestly do not see why anyone considers a rather generous attachment limit to be a problem. DOFF storage is the most laughable idea I've ever heard, exchange sales are your own problem for 1) not listing at a competitive price and/or 2) not keeping tabs on your sales if you really have that many items active. I still believe the only time you'd run into a problem with exchange sales is if you're using the exchange as additional inventory in addition to using attachments as such. :rolleyes:
Using extra characters (and extra accounts if necessary) is the easier, more sensible approach. You get the native inventory functions that are easy to use, rather than kludging your way through it because you want to "stick it to the man".
Please quote me where I actually called it an exploit. I'll wait.
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Couldn't find it? Hmm, could it be because I didn't actually call it an exploit (and therefore a bannable offense)? I called it a "loophole" because it's a more or less harmless bug in the game code. Nothing that gives you an innate advantage in anything except item storage, which doesn't give you any edge in combat.
Also, while a dummy account may seem cumbersome to you (though I don't know how, more on that in a minute), it's actually in Cryptic and PWE's best interests. The more "active" accounts (i.e. those that have been logged in "recently"), the better their quarterly reports look to investors, even if those "active" accounts haven't actually spent any money. You'd be doing them a favor, not a disservice.
Now, about the "cumbersome" argument... I don't know about you, but I would find it terribly annoying to go through a whole bunch of mail attachments trying to find a DOFF or set of DOFFs. It would be much easier to just switch to a new character (or account) and be able to use the DOFF sorting system inherent to your DOFF roster. That, and I wouldn't have to juggle my existing roster in order to make room for whatever DOFFs I want to donate - I could just donate them directly from my storage "mule" character.
---
I honestly do not see why anyone considers a rather generous attachment limit to be a problem. DOFF storage is the most laughable idea I've ever heard, exchange sales are your own problem for 1) not listing at a competitive price and/or 2) not keeping tabs on your sales if you really have that many items active. I still believe the only time you'd run into a problem with exchange sales is if you're using the exchange as additional inventory in addition to using attachments as such. :rolleyes:
Using extra characters (and extra accounts if necessary) is the easier, more sensible approach. You get the native inventory functions that are easy to use, rather than kludging your way through it because you want to "stick it to the man".
According to the TOS, you are allowed only one account. To setup another account for doff and gear storage is a violation of the Terms of Service. It could be construed as an account bannable offense.
According to the TOS, you are allowed only one account. To setup another account for doff and gear storage is a violation of the Terms of Service. It could be construed as an account bannable offense.
This. Agreed.
It's also a direct hit to PWE's bottom line if anybody can, under Free-to-Play, create an infinite number of free accounts each with their own character, mail, and storage limits.
They have a strong incentive to make sure there's a strong disincentive for people to do this.
I support being able to purchase expanded storage, even though I'll miss being able to use the mail system. Otherwise, I will simply have to adapt to the new reality and either buy slots or part with stuff I shouldn't be hanging onto.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
Please quote me where I actually called it an exploit. I'll wait.
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
This thread....
You all are deliberately exploiting a loophole in the game by using a COMMUNICATION system to STORE your own items.
Since your blind to your own words I bold out the word that you yourself used.......
Some people are not only fanbois and defenders of a terrible company policy and stealth nerfs but they also forget to read the TOS and suggest things in it that are forbidden in said TOS, talk about about really being a sheep.
On another note I would like to know that the dev team is at lease taking our suggestion into considerations on this topic and many others I have seen a great deal of great suggestion to help out the player base that can even make them money if that is their real aim in this stealth nerf.
On another note I would like to know that the dev team is at lease taking our suggestion into considerations on this topic and many others I have seen a great deal of great suggestion to help out the player base that can even make them money if that is their real aim in this stealth nerf.
Thats the thing. I am trying to stay positive here and give suggestions and methods that would allow us to accomodate this change in our playstyle. There are easy methods, more difficult methods, and there are more gameplay oriented methods. Many would allow them to increase their revenue generation so it would be beneficial for all involved to pursue these changes. The one thing that most players would agree with is this change has been a negative on the quality of our game play experience and would at least like some response and consideration by the developers to address it.
to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity;
to use selfishly for one's own ends: employers who exploit their workers
Note that using a verb does not constitute declaration of the noun. I suspect, however, that the subtleties of grammar escape you, and that you will not care to make the distinction.
Suffice it to say, you can exchange the word "exploiting" for "using", "taking advantage of", "making use of", etc., and the meaning will remain exactly the same.
It's also a direct hit to PWE's bottom line if anybody can, under Free-to-Play, create an infinite number of free accounts each with their own character, mail, and storage limits.
Bluegeek, I expected better from you. You, as a moderator, just provided false information by "confirming" that you cannot make multiple accounts.
I just read through that entire document. NOWHERE does it say you cannot create multiple accounts. It goes into great detail about how users are responsible for securing their own account, providing accurate information for their account, PWE can terminate your account, et al. It does not, however, restrict you from creating more than one.
The closest you can *POSSIBLY* get to that statement is the fact that account is always singular. That doesn't fly legally, morally, or otherwise. They didn't explicitly say you cannot make multiple accounts, so you cannot tell people they may not.
I just read through that entire document. NOWHERE does it say you cannot create multiple accounts. It goes into great detail about how users are responsible for securing their own account, providing accurate information for their account, PWE can terminate your account, et al. It does not, however, restrict you from creating more than one.
The closest you can *POSSIBLY* get to that statement is the fact that account is always singular. That doesn't fly legally, morally, or otherwise. They didn't explicitly say you cannot make multiple accounts, so you cannot tell people they may not.
The Community staff has been way over the top on this whole issue, calling players exploiters, dispensing false information and asserting conjecture as fact.
/golfclap
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
The thread on the mail changes was prematurely closed before we had an acknowledgement by the developers and they may overlook some of the beneficial discussion that was going on. The first thread can be found here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=695071
This thread is about addressing solutions to the problems that this dramatic unannounced change has caused many players. The biggest areas affected are the starbase construction and doffing system that presents a storage problem that cannot be adequately solved via existing game mechanisms. There is additional storage issues given the ever expanding items granted yet the static storage options in your bank and account bank.
Some solutions stated in the previous thread if you don't want to go digging are as follows:
1. Unlock doff slots, bank slots, account bank slots so unlimited numbers can be purchased if desired.
2. Allow for the purchase of additional mail attachments.
3. Allow doffs be converted in a currency for use on starbase projects so that they will no longer take up slots.
4. Allow a starbase bank for stored doffs that the base owners/designates can used on a project
5. Lower (or eliminate) the dilithium rates for the doff reassignment missions for whits to green at personel officers allowing the cost effective conversion of doffs for storage/conversion to more useful types.
6. Allow for the purchase of a special doff storage (like an account bank) for doffs that can directly utilize the doffs across all characters for starbase construction and no other missions.
I am sure there were others but there are solutions here to a problem many players have with the 100 attachment change. Please let this discussion continue so we can try and craft a solution that doesn't involve starbase construction and doffing in general and make sure the developers are aware of our concerns and potential solutions.
As OP of the original thread you linked; I've very glad others see the importance of the issue and are putting in sound, reasoned and fair suggestions.
Since that thread was closed, a number of others have opened, all looking for the same two things:
Reasonable doff storage and/or the timely reconfiguration of fleetbases to match doff production
I also ask people not to be baited into arguments in this forum. There are a number of people tremendously benefiting from the status quo (Fleets that have maxed or near maxed, individuals that sell the desired common doffs, and 'others' I won't mention due to probable backlash)
if i make account B and from account A i send more then 100 items to account B.. what happens?
do they get rejected? do they go limbo.. they get deleted?
as a fleet leader.. sometimes my fleet members send me items in the mail.
having more then the normal 3 characters on my account. most of the time i have more then 100 items in the exchange.. since i dont budge on the prices alot of those go unsold..
i probably get 100 or so a week returned to me..
this change is/was completely unneeded.. and ontop of that its very poorly done..
you think this change was what setup the mail bug in the first place?
i lost a few items.. prob about 10m worth so far.. i havent even logged into all my chars yet..
i have 2 or 3 chars that got blank emails that say item returned from exchange..
nothing is there tho.. no item
will those emails be resent if i delete them?
why?? the mail system couldnt be top priority of things to mess with..
heck you still cant log out and back in without my fleet channel getting messed up..
i often see people talking in my fleet chat that isnt in my fleet.. then there are some that are, but they are on another char..
this could have been fixed before messing up the mail system
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I just read through that entire document. NOWHERE does it say you cannot create multiple accounts. It goes into great detail about how users are responsible for securing their own account, providing accurate information for their account, PWE can terminate your account, et al. It does not, however, restrict you from creating more than one.
The closest you can *POSSIBLY* get to that statement is the fact that account is always singular. That doesn't fly legally, morally, or otherwise. They didn't explicitly say you cannot make multiple accounts, so you cannot tell people they may not.
Community guidelines, additional rules, second line:
Each user is allowed to create one account. Automated account creation, participation, and content scraping are not permitted.
Game account and forum account are different portions of the same account.
Community guidelines, additional rules, second line:
Game account and forum account are different portions of the same account.
Wrong. Game account and forum account are *not* necessarily the same thing. Also, Community Guidelines apply to the forum, not the game.
And anyway, if you really want to get all lawyerly about it, the clause says
Each user is allowed to create one account.
not
Each user is allowed to create only one account.
Also, that clause says
Automated account creation, participation, and content scraping are not permitted.
What the heck is that? That means:
Automated account creation is not permitted.
participation is not permitted.
content scraping is not permitted.
"Participation is not permitted"?
Guess we're all in violation then.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
This. And, in light of the fact that neither document is legally admissible, it doesn't matter anyway.
Perhaps this is what you seek:
Please note that regardless of any notice, PWE reserves the right to discontinue the Service or to terminate or suspend your account at any time in its sole discretion for any reason, or for no reason.
Regardless of whether it is allowable or not, can we conclude that if it is possible, it is not desireable for the player or company to have players creating dummy accounts merely to store doffs and other items as needed. Instead it is better to look at remedies so that our existing accounts can continue to function. This thread has numerous suggestions on appropriate ways to address this storage crunch created by this change in mail.
Regardless of whether it is allowable or not, can we conclude that if it is possible, it is not desireable for the player or company to have players creating dummy accounts merely to store doffs and other items as needed.
I think that's a very reasonable conclusion.
Instead it is better to look at remedies so that our existing accounts can continue to function. This thread has numerous suggestions on appropriate ways to address this storage crunch created by this change in mail.
The problem is that Cryptic has seemed entirely uninterested in any remedies. I believe the only response to date is still "buy more storage."
Working within that response, a player must balance the inconvenience of using additional accounts for storage against the quite high cost of additional DOFF storage. (There are also ancillary, non-DOFF related benefits to running additional accounts.)
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
For casual players the game is playable without any need to expand storage. The cost to the player is time management.
For the heavy player, buying slots to expand storage is easy or they can earn dill ingame to pay for it. Very achievable.
For the aggressive player, those of us who exceed 4 hours daily, more slots are necessary. In my case I have purchased max expansions on ships, banks and holding areas.
As for doffing for starbases, it's more challenging. Thankfully fleet doffs stack unopened 50 at a time. Recently they made opening these even easier for people.
I've never used mail for storage purposes; if anything it was to transfer stuff between toons. If improvements could be done - some sort of mass doff mechanism to fill fleet projects would be nice - or increase stacks from 250 to 500 for commodities - or 100 for doffs.
One of the problems with this mail change is running additional characters compounds the 100 limit as it is account bound rather than character bound. So perversely the mail limit becomes more and more restrictive as you add more characters. So storage can become more of an issue and the mail even more troublesome running additional characters.
For the heavy player, buying slots to expand storage is easy or they can earn dill ingame to pay for it. Very achievable.
For the aggressive player, those of us who exceed 4 hours daily, more slots are necessary. In my case I have purchased max expansions on ships, banks and holding areas.
I have 24 character slots across 2 accounts. Each has 200 doff slots. In theory, I could get 4800 more slots for 34,800 Zen. (Or ~3.5M Dil).
That doesn't feel like a good deal to me. It's not that I can't spend that much, I've spent more on NW already. But it feels like I'm being squeezed. I'd rather work against the system than work with it.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
One of the problems with this mail change is running additional characters compounds the 100 limit as it is account bound rather than character bound. So perversely the mail limit becomes more and more restrictive as you add more characters. So storage can become more of an issue and the mail even more troublesome running additional characters.
This is an excellent point, although, to be fair, the same issue also exists with the shared storage bank.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
The Community staff has been way over the top on this whole issue, calling players exploiters, dispensing false information and asserting conjecture as fact.
I agree with this completely. No excuse.
There is no exploit. It is simply people playing within the bounds imposed by the programmers. No bugs or loopholes exploited. No one player had some advantage that others did not. I have NO tolerance for community staff implying (groundlessly) that we were being naughty children and breaking the rules. The rules were not there. I also have no tolerance for the assertion of staff that we ought to have known we were doing something wrong, therefore we were forewarned the rules would change. I had no idea it would change. I had no idea it DID change until problems with mail after the patch sent me searching the forum.
If excessive mail usage was causing problems for loading mail on the servers or what have you, the proper and SANE way to go about instituting such a change would be to announce it IN ADVANCE. "Hi everyone, sorry for the inconvenience but in X number of days we are going to have to institute a 100 attachment limit." Common sense? Instead, no patch notes, no forum posts, nothing but us being CHIDED.
I actually thought my mail was still just buggy and was being PATIENT by NOT complaining my mail was not working after the bug patch. It is not true that mail was held in queue. I lost mail. I was also continually annoyed by having to pass things through account bank only and by not receiving mail friends were telling me they sent to me.
This is not the first time that the response from staff on the forums has been kneejerk snark. The mail thing annoys me. The snark from staff that is allowed to happen over and over? THAT is what made me regret buying the Legacy pack and cancel my subscription.
Sell the overflow on the exchange, save that money for when you need doffs for fleet assignments and buy new ones when you need them. Get a couple extra character slots, max doff slots on them and fill em up. use those doffs for doff assignments until you need to put them on fleet projects. Have a serious conversation with the fleet about contributing rather than do it all yourself.
This whole fuss about losing unlimited mail is quite ridiculous considering there are other ways you can store them and the projects are meant to be done by many people contributing not just 1. If you are the only 1 contributing then that is your fault for allowing that to happen, and if you are doing a fleet solo.. well i dont know what to say except well fleets are meant for many people so fi you choose to do it solo then tough luck.
One thing Cryptic can do is add a doff bank to starbase and embassy where you earn half the fleet credits but the doffs get added to projects automaticly if the bank has the ones needed for the project. add the doffs to that bank and you lose them forever, they cannot be removed but if it fills up with all civilians or science then it could be shuffled with all new doffs with a fleet project.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Comments
No offense, thats just a really bad idea. Especially when the concensus of the playerbase wants less currencies. (Tons of people think we got too many already).
And it does not solve the storage problem. It just makes things overly complicated. Keep it simple.
You all are deliberately exploiting a loophole in the game by using a COMMUNICATION system to STORE your own items. You probably do the same on the exchange, right? Use it to store even more items?
And you complain when that loophole gets a little smaller. Not closed, not fixed, not taken away from you, just reduced in size. And you're complaining that you can't cheat Cryptic's storage limits as much as you used to.
:rolleyes:
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Here's a hint: accounts are free. Make some more.
But it will not work, if cryptic will look at the items they are stored in the mailsystem they will see its a horrible number of doffs with no use at this point, no player need hundereds of civilian, science and tactical doffs but we get them.
As long Cryptic will not bring a usefull solution to this problem they will hurt himself. Players learn and adapt to new situations. They will buy lesser doff packs if they have no way to storage them, the will create storage f2p accounts, or will leave.
We have give cryptic enough got hints to solve the problem, but its looks like the dont care about it.
they are so many ways to help use so we dont need the horrible mailsystem anymore for doff storage.
- increase the limit of doff slots we can buy
- sepearte doff storage like bank / accountbank for easy transfer of doffs
- convert mission to get tokens for doffs that then can be easy put in a bank
- doff missions to convert one typ of doffs to another that is more usefull
- put the project slots of tac/sec, sci/med, eng/ops on one slot that we dont have store so many doffs of one type that we not need for a longer time.
- a queue system on the fleet so put doffs in that than can automatic will be used if needed (but this will not fix the problem if we have millions of doffs that we cant use for projects sci, civil)
Pls Cryptic do something or all of this to help us.
Good summary and ideas!
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
Nowhere but in your mind and a few of the developers ardent defenders was the use of mail for years to store attachments an exploit. If it was an exploit, why weren't our accounts banned? Where was the announcement that the mail system was not designed for this? No developer has even responded in an official manner regarding this. We have a vague statement on twitter saying it was intended, but not the reasoning behind it. The only way to defend the unannounced and crippling actions by the developers is to somehow classify this action that most players have done as an exploit. I don't believe that is supported by the evidence.
As far as your solution to create more accounts. Is that the far more exploit oriented solution. Flood the system with dummy accounts who sole purpose is storage? It is a time consuming process to change accounts merely to try and store doffs and ultimately doesn't solve the issue when many people have their accounts with a very small attachment limit since account mail is linked. As someone has stated, they have 10 characters on 1 account. Is 2 mails with 5 attachments for each character a fair and reasonable amount? At the very least each character needs to have 100 attachments if only to hand exchange sales and the requirements of playing the game.
No one can thing the manner in which this was done was fair and equitable to the players. Many have revealed the problems with this change and the difficulties it creates. It is necessary that there are some new mechanisms discussed in this thread be implimented to address the problems created by this change.
Please quote me where I actually called it an exploit. I'll wait.
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Couldn't find it? Hmm, could it be because I didn't actually call it an exploit (and therefore a bannable offense)? I called it a "loophole" because it's a more or less harmless bug in the game code. Nothing that gives you an innate advantage in anything except item storage, which doesn't give you any edge in combat.
Also, while a dummy account may seem cumbersome to you (though I don't know how, more on that in a minute), it's actually in Cryptic and PWE's best interests. The more "active" accounts (i.e. those that have been logged in "recently"), the better their quarterly reports look to investors, even if those "active" accounts haven't actually spent any money. You'd be doing them a favor, not a disservice.
Now, about the "cumbersome" argument... I don't know about you, but I would find it terribly annoying to go through a whole bunch of mail attachments trying to find a DOFF or set of DOFFs. It would be much easier to just switch to a new character (or account) and be able to use the DOFF sorting system inherent to your DOFF roster. That, and I wouldn't have to juggle my existing roster in order to make room for whatever DOFFs I want to donate - I could just donate them directly from my storage "mule" character.
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I honestly do not see why anyone considers a rather generous attachment limit to be a problem. DOFF storage is the most laughable idea I've ever heard, exchange sales are your own problem for 1) not listing at a competitive price and/or 2) not keeping tabs on your sales if you really have that many items active. I still believe the only time you'd run into a problem with exchange sales is if you're using the exchange as additional inventory in addition to using attachments as such. :rolleyes:
Using extra characters (and extra accounts if necessary) is the easier, more sensible approach. You get the native inventory functions that are easy to use, rather than kludging your way through it because you want to "stick it to the man".
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
This. Agreed.
It's also a direct hit to PWE's bottom line if anybody can, under Free-to-Play, create an infinite number of free accounts each with their own character, mail, and storage limits.
They have a strong incentive to make sure there's a strong disincentive for people to do this.
I support being able to purchase expanded storage, even though I'll miss being able to use the mail system. Otherwise, I will simply have to adapt to the new reality and either buy slots or part with stuff I shouldn't be hanging onto.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Please quote me where I actually called it an exploit. I'll wait.
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
This thread....
You all are deliberately exploiting a loophole in the game by using a COMMUNICATION system to STORE your own items.
Since your blind to your own words I bold out the word that you yourself used.......
Some people are not only fanbois and defenders of a terrible company policy and stealth nerfs but they also forget to read the TOS and suggest things in it that are forbidden in said TOS, talk about about really being a sheep.
Thats the thing. I am trying to stay positive here and give suggestions and methods that would allow us to accomodate this change in our playstyle. There are easy methods, more difficult methods, and there are more gameplay oriented methods. Many would allow them to increase their revenue generation so it would be beneficial for all involved to pursue these changes. The one thing that most players would agree with is this change has been a negative on the quality of our game play experience and would at least like some response and consideration by the developers to address it.
Exploiting (verb):
Note that using a verb does not constitute declaration of the noun. I suspect, however, that the subtleties of grammar escape you, and that you will not care to make the distinction.
Suffice it to say, you can exchange the word "exploiting" for "using", "taking advantage of", "making use of", etc., and the meaning will remain exactly the same.
Bluegeek, I expected better from you. You, as a moderator, just provided false information by "confirming" that you cannot make multiple accounts.
http://www.perfectworld.com/about/terms
I just read through that entire document. NOWHERE does it say you cannot create multiple accounts. It goes into great detail about how users are responsible for securing their own account, providing accurate information for their account, PWE can terminate your account, et al. It does not, however, restrict you from creating more than one.
The closest you can *POSSIBLY* get to that statement is the fact that account is always singular. That doesn't fly legally, morally, or otherwise. They didn't explicitly say you cannot make multiple accounts, so you cannot tell people they may not.
The Community staff has been way over the top on this whole issue, calling players exploiters, dispensing false information and asserting conjecture as fact.
/golfclap
As OP of the original thread you linked; I've very glad others see the importance of the issue and are putting in sound, reasoned and fair suggestions.
Since that thread was closed, a number of others have opened, all looking for the same two things:
Reasonable doff storage and/or the timely reconfiguration of fleetbases to match doff production
I also ask people not to be baited into arguments in this forum. There are a number of people tremendously benefiting from the status quo (Fleets that have maxed or near maxed, individuals that sell the desired common doffs, and 'others' I won't mention due to probable backlash)
if i make account B and from account A i send more then 100 items to account B.. what happens?
do they get rejected? do they go limbo.. they get deleted?
as a fleet leader.. sometimes my fleet members send me items in the mail.
having more then the normal 3 characters on my account. most of the time i have more then 100 items in the exchange.. since i dont budge on the prices alot of those go unsold..
i probably get 100 or so a week returned to me..
this change is/was completely unneeded.. and ontop of that its very poorly done..
you think this change was what setup the mail bug in the first place?
i lost a few items.. prob about 10m worth so far.. i havent even logged into all my chars yet..
i have 2 or 3 chars that got blank emails that say item returned from exchange..
nothing is there tho.. no item
will those emails be resent if i delete them?
why?? the mail system couldnt be top priority of things to mess with..
heck you still cant log out and back in without my fleet channel getting messed up..
i often see people talking in my fleet chat that isnt in my fleet.. then there are some that are, but they are on another char..
this could have been fixed before messing up the mail system
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Community guidelines, additional rules, second line:
Game account and forum account are different portions of the same account.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Wrong. Game account and forum account are *not* necessarily the same thing. Also, Community Guidelines apply to the forum, not the game.
And anyway, if you really want to get all lawyerly about it, the clause says
not
Also, that clause says
What the heck is that? That means:
"Participation is not permitted"?
Guess we're all in violation then.
"Automated" is the keyword there.
This. And, in light of the fact that neither document is legally admissible, it doesn't matter anyway.
Perhaps this is what you seek:
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I think that's a very reasonable conclusion.
The problem is that Cryptic has seemed entirely uninterested in any remedies. I believe the only response to date is still "buy more storage."
Working within that response, a player must balance the inconvenience of using additional accounts for storage against the quite high cost of additional DOFF storage. (There are also ancillary, non-DOFF related benefits to running additional accounts.)
For the heavy player, buying slots to expand storage is easy or they can earn dill ingame to pay for it. Very achievable.
For the aggressive player, those of us who exceed 4 hours daily, more slots are necessary. In my case I have purchased max expansions on ships, banks and holding areas.
As for doffing for starbases, it's more challenging. Thankfully fleet doffs stack unopened 50 at a time. Recently they made opening these even easier for people.
I've never used mail for storage purposes; if anything it was to transfer stuff between toons. If improvements could be done - some sort of mass doff mechanism to fill fleet projects would be nice - or increase stacks from 250 to 500 for commodities - or 100 for doffs.
I have 24 character slots across 2 accounts. Each has 200 doff slots. In theory, I could get 4800 more slots for 34,800 Zen. (Or ~3.5M Dil).
That doesn't feel like a good deal to me. It's not that I can't spend that much, I've spent more on NW already. But it feels like I'm being squeezed. I'd rather work against the system than work with it.
This is an excellent point, although, to be fair, the same issue also exists with the shared storage bank.
I agree with this completely. No excuse.
There is no exploit. It is simply people playing within the bounds imposed by the programmers. No bugs or loopholes exploited. No one player had some advantage that others did not. I have NO tolerance for community staff implying (groundlessly) that we were being naughty children and breaking the rules. The rules were not there. I also have no tolerance for the assertion of staff that we ought to have known we were doing something wrong, therefore we were forewarned the rules would change. I had no idea it would change. I had no idea it DID change until problems with mail after the patch sent me searching the forum.
If excessive mail usage was causing problems for loading mail on the servers or what have you, the proper and SANE way to go about instituting such a change would be to announce it IN ADVANCE. "Hi everyone, sorry for the inconvenience but in X number of days we are going to have to institute a 100 attachment limit." Common sense? Instead, no patch notes, no forum posts, nothing but us being CHIDED.
I actually thought my mail was still just buggy and was being PATIENT by NOT complaining my mail was not working after the bug patch. It is not true that mail was held in queue. I lost mail. I was also continually annoyed by having to pass things through account bank only and by not receiving mail friends were telling me they sent to me.
This is not the first time that the response from staff on the forums has been kneejerk snark. The mail thing annoys me. The snark from staff that is allowed to happen over and over? THAT is what made me regret buying the Legacy pack and cancel my subscription.
This whole fuss about losing unlimited mail is quite ridiculous considering there are other ways you can store them and the projects are meant to be done by many people contributing not just 1. If you are the only 1 contributing then that is your fault for allowing that to happen, and if you are doing a fleet solo.. well i dont know what to say except well fleets are meant for many people so fi you choose to do it solo then tough luck.
One thing Cryptic can do is add a doff bank to starbase and embassy where you earn half the fleet credits but the doffs get added to projects automaticly if the bank has the ones needed for the project. add the doffs to that bank and you lose them forever, they cannot be removed but if it fills up with all civilians or science then it could be shuffled with all new doffs with a fleet project.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek: