Wouldn't a hit from anti-protons be , well, very disruptive to anything it struck, given that matter/antimatter interactions are, ah, unhealthy?
I wish the proc was even more devastating.
Given that an antiproton beam of any real strength and distance already violates the laws of physics, I would say the question of what it should do "in reality" is largely moot.
First off, would not 'anti-proton,' by definition, simply be electron?
Also, on a more serious note, how is AP not the go-to damage-type for weapons? I don't have one yet, but I would have to think that +25% to crit has to outweigh any other weapon proc, no?
And yet I still see lots of debate with people swearing by distruptors, or plasma (for Romulans I get why plasma might be better than AP), or even polaron/tetryon.
If you're look for the most bang (literally) for your buck in a weapon damage type, can someone explain why the 25% crit does not give you that in spades over the others?
This. As everyone SHOULD know, the three subatomic particles of matter are the proton, neutron, and electron. For antimatter, they are the antiproton, antineutron (which doesn't even really change anything because they are basically exactly the same), and the positron or antielectron (depending on whichever you prefer to use).
Edit: Being an antineutron does make it different from a neutron because if they were to come into contact, then they would undergo annihilation. Another way to say annihilation: BOOM!
Which would make Data's brain a bomb waiting to happen.
One thing to remember is that some matter/antimatter reactions are different. Most reactions only release 30% of the energy as heat and/or in another form, however the most dangerous matter/antimatter reaction is the Electron/Positron reaction. This reaction releases 100% of the energy as Gamma Radiation, aka Gamma Rays, and leaves no residue since both particles were completely destroyed.
I might be wrong about the whole AntiProton thing but my understanding of the debate on weapon types is:
AntiProton: Highest Damage Potential in the game.
'Potential' meaning it's just a modifier.
If the rest of your gear is TRIBBLE and you read that it's a good weapon and decide to put it on that little hoopty of a raptor you call the I.K.S. Buttercup or whatever. You're still going to suck. AntiProtons take work to master. It takes a solid foundation of consoles, skills, Bridge Officers, Duty Officers, Components to shine.
Unlike the other weapon types, you can't go 'buy' the things required to make AntiProtons the hull shredders they can be. (ALL the things at least) It takes a brain and careful planing from the early levels up to build a black and red shooting death machine.
If you're taking the numbers shown in 'combat space' (or w/e the goons are calling it nowadays) when you press the U button as the end all be all of your Crit potential. You'll be sorely disappointed when you put on all those new Adv. Fleet AP Cannons.
How Critical hits work is:
A certain base % (mysterious variable number one could probably find out)[A] + your equipment Acc combined total + your Weapon skill proficiency points allocated [C] equaling [W].
Second the game takes into account what you're shooting. Say Elite Tac Cube has [X] (including random variable) amount of defense. your A+B+C=W has to pit itself against that Cubes X value. If your W wins out (per shot) against X. You HIT, not crit.
Now if you exceed the needed-to-hit threshold by far enough say 100[W] to the cube's 50 [X] and the HIT threshold is 50 and the CRIT threshold is, say, 75 boom you crit.
CritH on a weapon helps your puny weak natural numbers get over the CRIT threshold CritD (proc severity) works in conjunction with your DPS values to increase the actual damage once you've reached that cool critical hit.
Now all that's been covered. (might be total rubbish)
Disruptor damage resistance can only stack so much on any 1 opponent no matter how many are firing at it. Otherwise, it would eventually reach 0 which is like shooting something 20 levels below you in nebula space. Take the Elite Hive: Boss queen. Take 5 people with disruptors. It's not going to get feebly weak. Game mechanics won't allow that. (Insert wisecrack quote stating how YOUR ship makes it look weak w/e). All this meaning that Disruptors' add-on, extra damage is CAPPED.
Crit damage (AP's forte'), is unlimited to an extent. I haven't seen full 9's yet but ask any bruiser of a veteran and I'm sure they have their own amazingly big crit number story to tell.
All in all, I just think AntiProton is just too much work for the lazy majority, where it wasn't in the past making it fall out of favor. Is it still good? Very much so. Should you use it? Probably not if you're reading this in the first place.
Just my 2 cents is all. Probably wrong about everything I just wrote but oh well.
I might be wrong about the whole AntiProton thing but my understanding of the debate on weapon types is:
snip
way off, there are 2 rolls, one to determine if you hit and another to determine if you crit. thhe crit roll adds in accuracy bleedover if any, bonuses from gear/consoles/traits/boffs and skills if any.
if you crit then the crit damage is calced modfied by severity
anti-protons shine with tacs nearly exclusively due to attack pattern alpha, which increases both crit chance and severity which stacks with the severity mod from AP's. add in borg console, rom console, maxed starship targeting (for bleedover), trait: accurate, and maxed energy weapon specialization (+crit% + severity)...AP's are deadly.
big fan of AP's, you do have to spec for them unlike disruptors which any class/build can use. disruptors, phasers (and plasma to a lesser extent consoles have changed that) are the generic weapons that require no special builds.
anti-proton, tetryon, polaron all require specific builds to get the most out of them.
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...Just my 2 cents is all. Probably wrong about everything I just wrote but oh well.
Sorry, but you are wrong on a lot of it. Your base crit chance is no "mysterious variable", it can be viewed directly in the UI (look at your ship in system space, under the offense accordian), add [CrtH] bonuses on individual weapons, for that weapon only.
When you hit, a separate roll is made vs. your Crit chance, if you succeed, you get bonus damage based on your Crit severity (visible on that same page). I'm unaware of any cap on player crit amounts.
You're also incorrect on how hitting works. It's discussed in detail in this podcast. It very simple terms, everyone has a 100% chance to hit, minus your target's defensive score, plus your accuracy. Any spillover above a 100% chance to hit, adds to your crit chance and your crit severity, which is why when you hold a target still in a tractor beam (thereby lowering their defense), it becomes super easy to land huge crits.
While I do know there is a cap on how much upper resistance you can have (podcast here). It is affected by diminishing returns. I'm not sure if a Resistance Debuff is similarly affected by diminishing returns and/or has a negative cap. I've been told different things by different players, and I've been unable to figure it out myself.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
I used to use Anti-protons but found the Disruptors were more effective, plus I mainly (pretty much only) play the KDF so it works for my faction too especially for ships like the Veteran destroyer and Guramba.
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Wouldn't a hit from anti-protons be , well, very disruptive to anything it struck, given that matter/antimatter interactions are, ah, unhealthy?
No, not exactly as you describe. Subatomoc physics is a very weird place. Only particles touching their corresponding anti-paticle will annihilate A proton colliding with an anti-proton will annihilate. An electron and positron colliding will annihilate each other. An proton hitting a positron would only be a "normal" particle collision.
Given that an antiproton beam of any real strength and distance already violates the laws of physics, I would say the question of what it should do "in reality" is largely moot.
What?!? It's doesn't violation the laws of physical. It may be technologically waaaaaay beyond out capabilities. But it is very much scientifically possible. An anti-proton beam could be created and control much in the same way that electron beams are created and controlled in Cathode Ray Tube (i.e. TV screens).
And sorry for going way off topic. But I just can stand to see wrong or just plain bad science being bandied about.
No. Matter/atimatter annihilation results in photons. Very HIGH energy photons in the high-energy X-Ray to Gamma ray energy ranges.
This is incorrect. According to the standard model, electron-positron annihilation, involving two leptons, undergoes mutual annihilation and converts all the energy of a particle to a photon. Using E=mc^2, you can easily calculate that even at rest those photons must be in the gamma ray energy range, as is the case with all nuclear reactions.
Baryonic annihilation, by contrast, is much more complicated. For instance, if a proton and an antiproton collide, you can get many different constituent particles. However, most of these particles are either unstable and decay or annihilate with ordinary matter, so ultimately you end up with gamma rays, neutrinos, and leptons.
The moral of the story is, do some research before trying to correct someone.
What?!? It's doesn't violation the laws of physical. It may be technologically waaaaaay beyond out capabilities. But it is very much scientifically possible. An anti-proton beam could be created and control much in the same way that electron beams are created and controlled in Cathode Ray Tube (i.e. TV screens).
And sorry for going way off topic. But I just can stand to see wrong or just plain bad science being bandied about.
Anti-proton beam weapons as depicted in Star Trek violate Coulomb's law.
What?!? It's doesn't violation the laws of physical.
Charged particles of any kind repel each other, and thus cannot be formed into a beam.
Now, if you want to hand-wave, you could assume the beam is 'jacketed' in some fasion.
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Charged particles of any kind repel each other, and thus cannot be formed into a beam.
Now, if you want to hand-wave, you could assume the beam is 'jacketed' in some fasion.
It is not that. You can create a beam of charged particles if you provide them with enough momentum. The electron beam in CRT televisions worked that way. So does florescent lighting, more or less.
The issue is that charge is a conserved quantity. If you are shooting a large number of charged particles off an object in space, it is going to build up an opposite charge very quickly, which is going to deflect any charged particle beam and eventually, as the charge builds up, cause the beam to slow and return to the object from which it was launched.
It is not that. You can create a beam of charged particles if you provide them with enough momentum. The electron beam in CRT televisions worked that way. So does florescent lighting, more or less.
The issue is that charge is a conserved quantity. If you are shooting a large number of charged particles off an object in space, it is going to build up an opposite charge very quickly, which is going to deflect any charged particle beam and eventually, as the charge builds up, cause the beam to slow and return to the object from which it was launched.
Not to mention the inherent hilarity of a weapon firing a projectile/beam that reacts catastrophically to contact with any quantity of matter, not just the target.
I think basically what people really like about Disruptors and Plasmas is that their procs are directly damage related, rather than affecting subsystems/energy levels.
Besides that all the other numbers (Acc, CrtD, CrtH, etc.) can be on all other energy weapons as well.
I usually use either Phasers or Antiprotons (AP), I actually got Phasers that were spec'd the same as my APs (Mark level and Crits) from Season 7 (when you could get AntiBorg gear reasonably quickly) and felt that the APs still hit harder, but I have no data to back that up.
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This is incorrect. According to the standard model, electron-positron annihilation, involving two leptons, undergoes mutual annihilation and converts all the energy of a particle to a photon. Using E=mc^2, you can easily calculate that even at rest those photons must be in the gamma ray energy range, as is the case with all nuclear reactions.
Baryonic annihilation, by contrast, is much more complicated. For instance, if a proton and an antiproton collide, you can get many different constituent particles. However, most of these particles are either unstable and decay or annihilate with ordinary matter, so ultimately you end up with gamma rays, neutrinos, and leptons.
The moral of the story is, do some research before trying to correct someone.
Actually, they're all unstable. The only stable quark-composite particles are the Proton, Antiproton, Neutron, and Antinuetron. Though, you are right, that baryon annihilation doesn't go directly to 2 high energy photons; Often, other quark-composite particles form, and then decay themselves. You *might* get an electron and positron out of baryon annihilation, but it's unlikely.
Comments
Given that an antiproton beam of any real strength and distance already violates the laws of physics, I would say the question of what it should do "in reality" is largely moot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiproton
it's basically the antimatter equivalent of the proton.
Which would make Data's brain a bomb waiting to happen.
Well, a warp core is. But it's contained (until damaged enough in battle) just like Data's brain.
Difference being, you don't have a warp core manning a bridge station next to you trying to tell you jokes.
AntiProton: Highest Damage Potential in the game.
'Potential' meaning it's just a modifier.
If the rest of your gear is TRIBBLE and you read that it's a good weapon and decide to put it on that little hoopty of a raptor you call the I.K.S. Buttercup or whatever. You're still going to suck. AntiProtons take work to master. It takes a solid foundation of consoles, skills, Bridge Officers, Duty Officers, Components to shine.
Unlike the other weapon types, you can't go 'buy' the things required to make AntiProtons the hull shredders they can be. (ALL the things at least) It takes a brain and careful planing from the early levels up to build a black and red shooting death machine.
If you're taking the numbers shown in 'combat space' (or w/e the goons are calling it nowadays) when you press the U button as the end all be all of your Crit potential. You'll be sorely disappointed when you put on all those new Adv. Fleet AP Cannons.
How Critical hits work is:
A certain base % (mysterious variable number one could probably find out)[A] + your equipment Acc combined total + your Weapon skill proficiency points allocated [C] equaling [W].
Second the game takes into account what you're shooting. Say Elite Tac Cube has [X] (including random variable) amount of defense. your A+B+C=W has to pit itself against that Cubes X value. If your W wins out (per shot) against X. You HIT, not crit.
Now if you exceed the needed-to-hit threshold by far enough say 100[W] to the cube's 50 [X] and the HIT threshold is 50 and the CRIT threshold is, say, 75 boom you crit.
CritH on a weapon helps your puny weak natural numbers get over the CRIT threshold CritD (proc severity) works in conjunction with your DPS values to increase the actual damage once you've reached that cool critical hit.
Now all that's been covered. (might be total rubbish)
Disruptor damage resistance can only stack so much on any 1 opponent no matter how many are firing at it. Otherwise, it would eventually reach 0 which is like shooting something 20 levels below you in nebula space. Take the Elite Hive: Boss queen. Take 5 people with disruptors. It's not going to get feebly weak. Game mechanics won't allow that. (Insert wisecrack quote stating how YOUR ship makes it look weak w/e). All this meaning that Disruptors' add-on, extra damage is CAPPED.
Crit damage (AP's forte'), is unlimited to an extent. I haven't seen full 9's yet but ask any bruiser of a veteran and I'm sure they have their own amazingly big crit number story to tell.
All in all, I just think AntiProton is just too much work for the lazy majority, where it wasn't in the past making it fall out of favor. Is it still good? Very much so. Should you use it? Probably not if you're reading this in the first place.
Just my 2 cents is all. Probably wrong about everything I just wrote but oh well.
way off, there are 2 rolls, one to determine if you hit and another to determine if you crit. thhe crit roll adds in accuracy bleedover if any, bonuses from gear/consoles/traits/boffs and skills if any.
if you crit then the crit damage is calced modfied by severity
anti-protons shine with tacs nearly exclusively due to attack pattern alpha, which increases both crit chance and severity which stacks with the severity mod from AP's. add in borg console, rom console, maxed starship targeting (for bleedover), trait: accurate, and maxed energy weapon specialization (+crit% + severity)...AP's are deadly.
big fan of AP's, you do have to spec for them unlike disruptors which any class/build can use. disruptors, phasers (and plasma to a lesser extent consoles have changed that) are the generic weapons that require no special builds.
anti-proton, tetryon, polaron all require specific builds to get the most out of them.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
When you hit, a separate roll is made vs. your Crit chance, if you succeed, you get bonus damage based on your Crit severity (visible on that same page). I'm unaware of any cap on player crit amounts.
You're also incorrect on how hitting works. It's discussed in detail in this podcast. It very simple terms, everyone has a 100% chance to hit, minus your target's defensive score, plus your accuracy. Any spillover above a 100% chance to hit, adds to your crit chance and your crit severity, which is why when you hold a target still in a tractor beam (thereby lowering their defense), it becomes super easy to land huge crits.
While I do know there is a cap on how much upper resistance you can have (podcast here). It is affected by diminishing returns. I'm not sure if a Resistance Debuff is similarly affected by diminishing returns and/or has a negative cap. I've been told different things by different players, and I've been unable to figure it out myself.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Phased Polaron
Nanite Disruptors.
Antiproton
AP is my go to for cannon set ups purely for the rate of fire giving me a higher crit chance.
The other two are just fun.
Actually it would be closer to say a MASSIVE electron. IT has the electrical charge of an electron, but the mass of a proton.
No. Matter/atimatter annihilation results in photons. Very HIGH energy photons in the high-energy X-Ray to Gamma ray energy ranges.
No, not exactly as you describe. Subatomoc physics is a very weird place. Only particles touching their corresponding anti-paticle will annihilate A proton colliding with an anti-proton will annihilate. An electron and positron colliding will annihilate each other. An proton hitting a positron would only be a "normal" particle collision.
What?!? It's doesn't violation the laws of physical. It may be technologically waaaaaay beyond out capabilities. But it is very much scientifically possible. An anti-proton beam could be created and control much in the same way that electron beams are created and controlled in Cathode Ray Tube (i.e. TV screens).
And sorry for going way off topic. But I just can stand to see wrong or just plain bad science being bandied about.
No, an Anti-proton is not an electron.... it is the anti-particle of the proton.
You have "anti-electrons" too (Positrons) and anti-neutrons.
This is incorrect. According to the standard model, electron-positron annihilation, involving two leptons, undergoes mutual annihilation and converts all the energy of a particle to a photon. Using E=mc^2, you can easily calculate that even at rest those photons must be in the gamma ray energy range, as is the case with all nuclear reactions.
Baryonic annihilation, by contrast, is much more complicated. For instance, if a proton and an antiproton collide, you can get many different constituent particles. However, most of these particles are either unstable and decay or annihilate with ordinary matter, so ultimately you end up with gamma rays, neutrinos, and leptons.
The moral of the story is, do some research before trying to correct someone.
Anti-proton beam weapons as depicted in Star Trek violate Coulomb's law.
Charged particles of any kind repel each other, and thus cannot be formed into a beam.
Now, if you want to hand-wave, you could assume the beam is 'jacketed' in some fasion.
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[D'Mented][D'Licious]
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It is not that. You can create a beam of charged particles if you provide them with enough momentum. The electron beam in CRT televisions worked that way. So does florescent lighting, more or less.
The issue is that charge is a conserved quantity. If you are shooting a large number of charged particles off an object in space, it is going to build up an opposite charge very quickly, which is going to deflect any charged particle beam and eventually, as the charge builds up, cause the beam to slow and return to the object from which it was launched.
Not to mention the inherent hilarity of a weapon firing a projectile/beam that reacts catastrophically to contact with any quantity of matter, not just the target.
Assuming "Positronic" has anything to do with positrons.
I think basically what people really like about Disruptors and Plasmas is that their procs are directly damage related, rather than affecting subsystems/energy levels.
Besides that all the other numbers (Acc, CrtD, CrtH, etc.) can be on all other energy weapons as well.
I usually use either Phasers or Antiprotons (AP), I actually got Phasers that were spec'd the same as my APs (Mark level and Crits) from Season 7 (when you could get AntiBorg gear reasonably quickly) and felt that the APs still hit harder, but I have no data to back that up.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.