Does it come with a big button marked 'i win' too? It seems like half the arguments here are wanting 'parity' (which means 'Klingon Uniqueness' stays unique, but they get everything the Federation has too), or something that just adds bonuses without any drawbacks.
You're not serious are you? :rolleyes:
Have you looked at the Federation forums? It's easy to say that when you have a faction that gets all the goodies, all the science ships, all the good KDF consoles in the lock boxes, got our carriers and flight deck carriers (aka the Heavy Escort carrier). Then you get another advantage and all of the sudden the Federation doesn't want the KDF to have it too, yet they have taken basically all of our unique items and such over the past 18 months. I say if it's good enough for the Federation to get our unique items/ships then it should be a two way street and not the one way street it has been for so many years.
Nothing I am jist pointing out how hard it is and if you can't get the zen to get those modules like me.It is not going to be easy to get the 8mil ec to get it.
The Kdf have wider varity of ships to choose from like the Kafri and the Destroyers.
Kdf have more criusers that can be fitted with cannons being that of single,duel or duel heavy.
You're kidding right? Our BOP's are outdated, our Raptors (last time I checked) have a screwed up pivot point, we lack any decent true science ships and our Battlecruisers are the only decent thing in the game for us.
The Federation has a much better line-up. Yes we have battlecruisers but the KDF is warlike and build their ships this way, the Federation cruisers are better tanks and can out tank a KDF Battlecruiser even on a bad day. A lot of players say science ships mean exploration, which is a load of bull, but if you want to go that way, then the Federation shouldn't have escorts, only tactical cruisers like the Sovereign.
Grinding up 2K of Zen is really easy, in the last few months I have managed to get over 2 million Dilithium, probably closer to 2.5 million. It's easy to do if you are on the KDF and can get that Marauding contraband and before you state that is another thing the KDF has, remeber there is a higher risk of losing you DOFF over the Fed and so the rewards need to be better to make the risk worth it. Try getting a team together for Defera to get fleet marks or get a KDF only queue started for fleet marks and you'll see the Federation is in a lot better position than the KDF, something Cryptic really needs to fix and could have if they made all Romulans ally with the KDF, a missed opportunity on their part to try and equalise the population in this game.
I might have went a bit off topic there, sorry all.
So while I appreciate you point of view, it isn't all that accurate in terms of the more variety the KDF has in it's ships.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
Agreed, the Federation has a clear edge in escorts and science ships. The KDF have battlecruisers, and BoPs that are not as competitive as they used to be with the proliferation of lockbox and fleet ships. The Fleet Norgh is a nice, flexible ship, but like any BoP it would have trouble in sustained combat. . .hence keeping it from really fulfilling a science-support role.
What really grinds my gears is the Federation advantage in escorts. I mean, I can understand them having an advantage in science ships and in tanky, fleet-supporting cruisers. . .those are the things the Federation is known for. Escorts, though? The classic Federation escort is the Defiant-class ship from DS9, which is clearly souped up to make it look more impressive in combat. It's made relatively clear that the Federation just doesn't carry that big of an 'attack ship' line. It has ships for the role, but really prefers to use cruiser.
The escort class should be something the KDF dominates in. Seriously. As it is, KDF raptor/destroyer pilots barely hold their own. The only really good escort-level ships the KDF has are the Pegh'qu lifetime ship, and the Fleet Scourge which is a stat-clone of the Fleet Patrol Escort. I think the Fleet Somraw suffers from a slightly borked turn axis (an abominable crime against the KDF, btw), same as the Fleet Qin.
For PvE, they work fine. Most anything does, really. PvP is where the inequalities of the factions really stand out, and the Federation has the edge.
Then...just make it a Raptor and be done with it-the KDF have little enough that is faction unique without diluting it further by just 'me too'ing' and tossing one of the few things we still have that nobody else does.
If you're intent on a Bird of Prey, then make it a BIRD OF PREY, not a defiant clone with wings.
a Bird of Prey has all universals and Battlecloak-that's the signature traits once you get past the artwork, it's something nobody else has, it lets us customize our layouts to a degree nobody else CAN.
for just another 5-Tac tactical ship, it SHOULD be a Raptor-that's the easy way for the Developers and everyone else. Make it a 5 tac Qorgh with the Boff layout you posted and a decent for an escort turn rate.
Yes, and for all that customization I stand back in awe at the sheer number of BOPs I see in the queues. I get blinded by the overwhelming presence of the raptor.
Have you looked at the Federation forums? It's easy to say that when you have a faction that gets all the goodies, all the science ships, all the good KDF consoles in the lock boxes, got our carriers and flight deck carriers (aka the Heavy Escort carrier). Then you get another advantage and all of the sudden the Federation doesn't want the KDF to have it too, yet they have taken basically all of our unique items and such over the past 18 months. I say if it's good enough for the Federation to get our unique items/ships then it should be a two way street and not the one way street it has been for so many years.
Completely serious.
With now a dozen characters covering every class/faction combination, owning half the C-store and being comfortable flying any ship family in this game (not saying masterful, just comfortable, as a reference point), the only thing I have ever found myself truly missing on my Klingon characters is when i want to play with a science leaning cruiser or escorts. In every other function, I'd rather have the KDF ships.
I can use the Varanus as a classical sci ship, or a Vo'quv and do all the sci stuff plus throw out bops or interceptors besides (yeah the Varanus costs money, but so does the Atrox), or do some truly weird stuff with the Kar'fi. Speaking of carriers, on pets the Federation may have runabouts, but for every other purpose the KDF has a vastly superior lineup. There is the Vesta though, which as a classical sci ship is definitely better, but for ultimate results you can still probably get more out of a heavy carrier. Advantage, KDF.
Then there's cruisers. If I want a tank cruiser, the Negh'var can do everything the Galaxy can, plus actually turn. For an attack cruiser there's the Vorcha which beats the snot out of the Regent or Excelsior, and can go all the way and get out my Tor'kaht (I love that thing so much). Go in the other direction and the Bortasqu can be every bit the immovable object of the Odyssey, plus cloaking if I'd like to. Plus I have an entire family of flight deck cruisers, that are otherwise identical to Fed cruisers but simply get that hangar at no mechanical cost. Advantage KDF.
On the escort front, maybe I'm not sensitive enough to it as the people that take the game as Serious Business, but I don't notice much of a difference between the Patrol Escort and the Mirror Qin other than a few shield points here, a few hull points there. Then there's the Guramba, which is just a mean little thing, a patrol escort with an extra mode and BFG that uses no console space to play with. Alternately there's the Kumari, which gets the 5 fore weapons and pays for it giant gaps in his defenses against anything not in its forward arc, and in the tac version a boff layout that makes it a serious glass cannon. It adds up the fact that a lot of fairly good escort drivers I know have shelved their Kumaris and gone back to their Defiants and Armitages, but we'll call it a point for the Feds anyways because its something they can do that the KDF can't. Lastly there IS the lack of versatility, raptors with things like LtCmdr sci or a non-fleet with LtCmdr Eng. It adds up to lots of little advantage Fed side, so we'll call it Advantage Federation.
Next there are BoPs, which are faster than anything but a Bug and gives me a boff flexibility to make any insane combination I can think of, able to be any ship they need to be. Maybe the lack of specialization is a weakness in the world of premade teams, but if you want to build a jack-of-all-trades ship the thing is simply unmatched with no counterpart anywhere. Advantage KDF.
Finally on the console front, KDF has better consoles. Graviton Pulses and Plasmonic Leeches and Aceton Assimilators, oh my. And by having them in the cstore, I make one purchase once and now they're available to summon and dismiss endlessly on as many characters as I like, and ultimately has proven to be cheaper than if I were buying reward packs over and over. Advantage KDF.
And yes I'm fully aware there are a lot of blanket statements here, potentially invalidated by exceptional players who can pull out a Vesta and spank 5 Qins without even trying. Put Captain 50th Percentile at the helm though, or even his awesome cousin Captain 75, and I think this stuff all stands up. If I were to play this game limited to the ship choices of a single faction, and i could only use their ships forever and ever, it would take me about 3 seconds to pick the Klingon offerings.
As for the 'stealing our uniqueness' schtick, oh please. A few consoles go on the exchange and its the end of the world. Feds get a single heavy carrier with no frigates and exactly one useful pet available to it, and the Empire is just crumbling to nothing. Two ships can actually cloak, both requiring console slots to do so, and one of those ships is a joke to boot. Its the final nail in the coffin! Oh but lets pay no attention to all the other advantages the KDF DOES have, or that every good Fed console long ago likewise went cross faction (because THEIR magical 'uniqueness' is irrelevant), or that Federation ships are stronger in exactly one area, or that in that one area its not actually that huge a gap, as acknowledging any of that would cost some of our 'noble underdog' cred that makes us feel so special! Clearly this is the way of the Warrior!
Snark mode in overdrive on that last paragraph? Absolutely. There are whiners on both sides. The difference is most of the Fed ones I see, such as one recently started about mounting DHCs on cruisers or the every-so-often supership idea (if they can be called an 'idea') pretty quickly turn into a small army jumping on the OP for making such a ridiculous suggestion, and as such the thread can be just brushed off. KDF side, so often it seems such similarly moronic suggestions instead get taken seriously, as if 'specialness' or some self-entitled sense of 'oppression' is justification for a ship thats all advantage, no drawback (as i was earlier replying to). If you want balance but differences, that means being strong in one area, and deliberately weak in another. The KDF has a lot of strengths, and so balance requires they have some weaknesses too. Otherwise, where's the uniqueness?
Overall the point I am trying to make is that when the Federation demand they generally get, when we ask, plead and demand we are ignored, or at best get something that is nowhere near what we asked for.
I have always been a strong supporter of faction equality and uniqueness but Cryptic in the last 18 months have shown they don't give a damn. If they can make money off it by giving KDF abilities to the Federation they'll do it and shoot the long-term success of this game in the butt.
All in all it's Cryptic's fault we are in this mess or perhaps more importantly it's probably PWE's fault as most of this happened after they bought Cryptic. Still Cryptic can't be held blameless as they could have come up with ways to keep the factions unique without restoring to the methods they have. They wonder why few play the KDF when a lot of the more Klingon style stuff is actually more readily available and actually better on the Federation side.
I can use the Varanus as a classical sci ship, or a Vo'quv and do all the sci stuff plus throw out bops or interceptors besides (yeah the Varanus costs money, but so does the Atrox), or do some truly weird stuff with the Kar'fi. Speaking of carriers, on pets the Federation may have runabouts, but for every other purpose the KDF has a vastly superior lineup. There is the Vesta though, which as a classical sci ship is definitely better, but for ultimate results you can still probably get more out of a heavy carrier. Advantage, KDF.
If the Varanus is such a good vessel why don't we see more of them? I'll let you why, it's a direct copy (with the smallest differences like less aux power and a slightly better inertia rating) of the Federation Deep Space Science vessel, a free Federation ship at level 40. Is such a ship worth 2000 Zen? I don't have an issue with all KDF science ships being C-store ones, but I do expect a decent ship for my science Captain.
The carrier, it may have a high science boff power, but it is by no means a science ship in traditional terms. You also forgot to mention how many Fed whine threads demanded they get carriers and guess what they finally got it. We are only asking for something for our science Captains to fly that isn't a carrier or a copy and paste Federation level 40 ship. I don't think that is too much to ask.
Then there's cruisers. If I want a tank cruiser, the Negh'var can do everything the Galaxy can, plus actually turn. For an attack cruiser there's the Vorcha which beats the snot out of the Regent or Excelsior, and can go all the way and get out my Tor'kaht (I love that thing so much). Go in the other direction and the Bortasqu can be every bit the immovable object of the Odyssey, plus cloaking if I'd like to. Plus I have an entire family of flight deck cruisers, that are otherwise identical to Fed cruisers but simply get that hangar at no mechanical cost. Advantage KDF.
I'll give you that one, all in all our cruisers are better, it's really the one true advantage the KDF has.
On the escort front, maybe I'm not sensitive enough to it as the people that take the game as Serious Business, but I don't notice much of a difference between the Patrol Escort and the Mirror Qin other than a few shield points here, a few hull points there. Then there's the Guramba, which is just a mean little thing, a patrol escort with an extra mode and BFG that uses no console space to play with. Alternately there's the Kumari, which gets the 5 fore weapons and pays for it giant gaps in his defenses against anything not in its forward arc, and in the tac version a boff layout that makes it a serious glass cannon. It adds up the fact that a lot of fairly good escort drivers I know have shelved their Kumaris and gone back to their Defiants and Armitages, but we'll call it a point for the Feds anyways because its something they can do that the KDF can't. Lastly there IS the lack of versatility, raptors with things like LtCmdr sci or a non-fleet with LtCmdr Eng. It adds up to lots of little advantage Fed side, so we'll call it Advantage Federation.
You forgot to mention that with the pivot point issue the Raptor has a shotty turn to bring it's fore weapons on a target and due to this it's turn rate is very misleading. Again the Federation has a great advantage here and we are just asking for some equality. As patrickngo said above me, if the Andorian ships are so bad, why are they everywhere still? So many KDF due to how bad out escort line is are forced to fly Battlecruisers. The KDF are warlike, a race of warriors so shouldn't as patrickngo said, the KDF have the advantage in the escort line and the Federation have the advantage in the science line. The cruiser line is fine as it is.
Next there are BoPs, which are faster than anything but a Bug and gives me a boff flexibility to make any insane combination I can think of, able to be any ship they need to be. Maybe the lack of specialization is a weakness in the world of premade teams, but if you want to build a jack-of-all-trades ship the thing is simply unmatched with no counterpart anywhere. Advantage KDF.
Again I will echo the statements of patrickngo, the Auxiliary emergency power has made cloaking in a BOP just too dangerous and not worth the risk. The line of ships is incredibly outdated and needs a serious buff to it's hull and a additional forward weapon slot to make them a viable alternative to a Raptor for a tactical Captain and for a Science Captain all of who are forced to fly something else other than a full science vessel.
Finally on the console front, KDF has better consoles. Graviton Pulses and Plasmonic Leeches and Aceton Assimilators, oh my. And by having them in the cstore, I make one purchase once and now they're available to summon and dismiss endlessly on as many characters as I like, and ultimately has proven to be cheaper than if I were buying reward packs over and over. Advantage KDF.
Yes the KDF has better consoles no arguing that, my problem is neither faction should have access to either factions console, but each time there has been a swap we get the short end of the straw, many consoles should have been off limits for the swap, the best consoles of both factions should have remained faction unique. The timing of the latest lock box console swap was adding salt to the wound as many Romulans were going KDF until this swap was announced. It was out hope to bring more population to the KDF to even things out a bit.
Cruisers are really the ONLY class KDF has a distinct advantage in-and that's handled fedside with the Chel'Ghett obtained during last winter event, or out of the C-store, and the Bort? REALLY?? it's another one of those "Cloaking gets you dead faster" designs. Cloak on a Bort is NOT an advantage (nor is DHC mounting), it's a ship that really only works with wide-angle weapons that mounts (if you bought the 3 pack) a console-cannon that requires the nose be pointed in a very narrow, specific, direction to use. Kind of the worst of both worlds.
Not to mention the D'Kora is a viable Battlecruiser for the Federation, but point taken as the Chel'Ghett was free and the D'Kora is not and really how long until the Federation get cruisers that can run dual heavies and have a much smaller turn rate? They already have the Vesta that can run dual heavies.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
For the Raptor, I'd like the Same BOFF layout but with a Universal Ensign (everyone gets the Ensign they want now right?) 5 Tac Consoles and a Battle Cloak.
If every Romulan ship has Battle Cloak we deserve at least an Escort with Battle cloak.
I'm not sure which Raptor skin to give but we got at least one unused Fleet Raptor left right?
^ This. In a Mirror Qin (PVE) and don't see anything else I can upgrade to. Like the ability to have a Eng Ensign to swap EPtS or EPtW compared to a wasted Tac Ensign on the Fleet Qin... Can't remember why I didn't like the Fleet Somraw at the moment but the point is I don't think I have another option if I want a fast, tough, cloaking 4 fwd/3 aft ship. And I've learned to adapt to the pivot issue...
Nothing I am jist pointing out how hard it is and if you can't get the zen to get those modules like me.It is not going to be easy to get the 8mil ec to get it.
The Kdf have wider varity of ships to choose from like the Kafri and the Destroyers.
Kdf have more criusers that can be fitted with cannons being that of single,duel or duel heavy.
I highly disagree, the Feds have way more ship types than us and have way more flexibility and not to mention many of those ships are newer C-store types (Kumari, Vesta, etc.) and the last time we have a Tier 5 C-store ship was the Bortasqu' which came out like what over 1 year now and during that time the Feds have 6-7 ships came out on the C-store.
i agree with many of my fellow KDF players that the BoP's and Raptors are obsolete right now, right now the only good class of ships on the KDF side are the battle cruisers, nowadays u see mostly KDF players in pvp now using either lock box ships or KDF Rommie player warbirds. i do believe that any new raptors thats gonna come out in the future (C-store or Fleet) should have and need 5 tac consoles with some having 5 fore/ 2 aft or maintain the 4 fore / 3 aft weapons setup. and as for the current and future tier 5 BoP's, they should have 1 extra Lt. Com BOff station (like the Norgh' but with 10 total console slots not 9) and/or having 1 extra aft weapon slot.
My main character ship is a Fleet B'rel retrofit, but since the release of the expansion fighting with a Stealth torpedo ship is now useless most of the time thx to the now broken/bugged EPtA I, II and III which can detect my ship even a long distance even though my skills on stealth is max plus with over 600 stealth bonus from my rommie boff's via Embassy and my ship having a total of 128 aux (130 aux max) which doe not mean anything to any person having no sensor skill and barely having no aux and only detecting my ship by using EPtA I.
With now a dozen characters covering every class/faction combination, owning half the C-store and being comfortable flying any ship family in this game (not saying masterful, just comfortable, as a reference point), the only thing I have ever found myself truly missing on my Klingon characters is when i want to play with a science leaning cruiser or escorts. In every other function, I'd rather have the KDF ships.
I can use the Varanus as a classical sci ship, or a Vo'quv and do all the sci stuff plus throw out bops or interceptors besides (yeah the Varanus costs money, but so does the Atrox), or do some truly weird stuff with the Kar'fi. Speaking of carriers, on pets the Federation may have runabouts, but for every other purpose the KDF has a vastly superior lineup. There is the Vesta though, which as a classical sci ship is definitely better, but for ultimate results you can still probably get more out of a heavy carrier. Advantage, KDF.
Then there's cruisers. If I want a tank cruiser, the Negh'var can do everything the Galaxy can, plus actually turn. For an attack cruiser there's the Vorcha which beats the snot out of the Regent or Excelsior, and can go all the way and get out my Tor'kaht (I love that thing so much). Go in the other direction and the Bortasqu can be every bit the immovable object of the Odyssey, plus cloaking if I'd like to. Plus I have an entire family of flight deck cruisers, that are otherwise identical to Fed cruisers but simply get that hangar at no mechanical cost. Advantage KDF.
On the escort front, maybe I'm not sensitive enough to it as the people that take the game as Serious Business, but I don't notice much of a difference between the Patrol Escort and the Mirror Qin other than a few shield points here, a few hull points there. Then there's the Guramba, which is just a mean little thing, a patrol escort with an extra mode and BFG that uses no console space to play with. Alternately there's the Kumari, which gets the 5 fore weapons and pays for it giant gaps in his defenses against anything not in its forward arc, and in the tac version a boff layout that makes it a serious glass cannon. It adds up the fact that a lot of fairly good escort drivers I know have shelved their Kumaris and gone back to their Defiants and Armitages, but we'll call it a point for the Feds anyways because its something they can do that the KDF can't. Lastly there IS the lack of versatility, raptors with things like LtCmdr sci or a non-fleet with LtCmdr Eng. It adds up to lots of little advantage Fed side, so we'll call it Advantage Federation.
Next there are BoPs, which are faster than anything but a Bug and gives me a boff flexibility to make any insane combination I can think of, able to be any ship they need to be. Maybe the lack of specialization is a weakness in the world of premade teams, but if you want to build a jack-of-all-trades ship the thing is simply unmatched with no counterpart anywhere. Advantage KDF.
Finally on the console front, KDF has better consoles. Graviton Pulses and Plasmonic Leeches and Aceton Assimilators, oh my. And by having them in the cstore, I make one purchase once and now they're available to summon and dismiss endlessly on as many characters as I like, and ultimately has proven to be cheaper than if I were buying reward packs over and over. Advantage KDF.
And yes I'm fully aware there are a lot of blanket statements here, potentially invalidated by exceptional players who can pull out a Vesta and spank 5 Qins without even trying. Put Captain 50th Percentile at the helm though, or even his awesome cousin Captain 75, and I think this stuff all stands up. If I were to play this game limited to the ship choices of a single faction, and i could only use their ships forever and ever, it would take me about 3 seconds to pick the Klingon offerings.
As for the 'stealing our uniqueness' schtick, oh please. A few consoles go on the exchange and its the end of the world. Feds get a single heavy carrier with no frigates and exactly one useful pet available to it, and the Empire is just crumbling to nothing. Two ships can actually cloak, both requiring console slots to do so, and one of those ships is a joke to boot. Its the final nail in the coffin! Oh but lets pay no attention to all the other advantages the KDF DOES have, or that every good Fed console long ago likewise went cross faction (because THEIR magical 'uniqueness' is irrelevant), or that Federation ships are stronger in exactly one area, or that in that one area its not actually that huge a gap, as acknowledging any of that would cost some of our 'noble underdog' cred that makes us feel so special! Clearly this is the way of the Warrior!
Snark mode in overdrive on that last paragraph? Absolutely. There are whiners on both sides. The difference is most of the Fed ones I see, such as one recently started about mounting DHCs on cruisers or the every-so-often supership idea (if they can be called an 'idea') pretty quickly turn into a small army jumping on the OP for making such a ridiculous suggestion, and as such the thread can be just brushed off. KDF side, so often it seems such similarly moronic suggestions instead get taken seriously, as if 'specialness' or some self-entitled sense of 'oppression' is justification for a ship thats all advantage, no drawback (as i was earlier replying to). If you want balance but differences, that means being strong in one area, and deliberately weak in another. The KDF has a lot of strengths, and so balance requires they have some weaknesses too. Otherwise, where's the uniqueness?
A few corrections:
First, the BoP is no faster than any other escort. It has a .2 impulse modifier, like every other escort/raptor/destroyer in the game. There are two ships that can move faster than the BoP. . .the Steamrunner (.21 mod) and the JHAS (.22 mod). What the BoP has is turning rate. . .and it's not as big of an advantage as you'd think, especially since every escort out there probably runs at least one copy of APO. The only reason why some BoPs may seem faster is that they are probably running high on engines and weapon power, sacrificing shield and aux power.
We have an edge in carriers, but that edge has been eroded by Cryptic giving into selfish Federation demands for carriers. . .and now the Federation has a full-fledged carrier (Atrox) and several flight deck carriers that can carry dual cannons (something the KDF doesn't have). Please note that this loss of an edge via a ship class has not been compensated by the addition of good science ships on the KDF side, or by the addition of better raptors to balance out that part of the equation. We essentially 'lost' an exclusive class because the Feddies stamped their feet loudly enough. . .but of course, that's not good enough.
Again about the BoP: The vaunted 'jack of all trades' benefits are severely limited by the fact that most BoPs cannot survive in sustained combat due to both low shield modifiers and low hullstrength. There's a reason most BoPs are set up for hit-and-run harassing attacks designed to find the weaknesses in someone's defenses. They simply cannot sit there and duke it out like a full-fledged escort can. The main roles for BoP right now are this: Hit and run attacking, or makeshift sci support ship (minus the benefits a real sci ship gets, including the aux boost).
I would prefer a5 tac console raptor a variaint of fllet qin heavy raptor with better turning of course about 17 degrees or 4 tac console with 5 weapons slots in front and two in the back and a brand new special ability lets call it destruction mode which will increase weapon power by ten for 10 seconds with less hull about 32000
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Comments
You're not serious are you? :rolleyes:
Have you looked at the Federation forums? It's easy to say that when you have a faction that gets all the goodies, all the science ships, all the good KDF consoles in the lock boxes, got our carriers and flight deck carriers (aka the Heavy Escort carrier). Then you get another advantage and all of the sudden the Federation doesn't want the KDF to have it too, yet they have taken basically all of our unique items and such over the past 18 months. I say if it's good enough for the Federation to get our unique items/ships then it should be a two way street and not the one way street it has been for so many years.
You're kidding right? Our BOP's are outdated, our Raptors (last time I checked) have a screwed up pivot point, we lack any decent true science ships and our Battlecruisers are the only decent thing in the game for us.
The Federation has a much better line-up. Yes we have battlecruisers but the KDF is warlike and build their ships this way, the Federation cruisers are better tanks and can out tank a KDF Battlecruiser even on a bad day. A lot of players say science ships mean exploration, which is a load of bull, but if you want to go that way, then the Federation shouldn't have escorts, only tactical cruisers like the Sovereign.
Grinding up 2K of Zen is really easy, in the last few months I have managed to get over 2 million Dilithium, probably closer to 2.5 million. It's easy to do if you are on the KDF and can get that Marauding contraband and before you state that is another thing the KDF has, remeber there is a higher risk of losing you DOFF over the Fed and so the rewards need to be better to make the risk worth it. Try getting a team together for Defera to get fleet marks or get a KDF only queue started for fleet marks and you'll see the Federation is in a lot better position than the KDF, something Cryptic really needs to fix and could have if they made all Romulans ally with the KDF, a missed opportunity on their part to try and equalise the population in this game.
I might have went a bit off topic there, sorry all.
So while I appreciate you point of view, it isn't all that accurate in terms of the more variety the KDF has in it's ships.
What really grinds my gears is the Federation advantage in escorts. I mean, I can understand them having an advantage in science ships and in tanky, fleet-supporting cruisers. . .those are the things the Federation is known for. Escorts, though? The classic Federation escort is the Defiant-class ship from DS9, which is clearly souped up to make it look more impressive in combat. It's made relatively clear that the Federation just doesn't carry that big of an 'attack ship' line. It has ships for the role, but really prefers to use cruiser.
The escort class should be something the KDF dominates in. Seriously. As it is, KDF raptor/destroyer pilots barely hold their own. The only really good escort-level ships the KDF has are the Pegh'qu lifetime ship, and the Fleet Scourge which is a stat-clone of the Fleet Patrol Escort. I think the Fleet Somraw suffers from a slightly borked turn axis (an abominable crime against the KDF, btw), same as the Fleet Qin.
For PvE, they work fine. Most anything does, really. PvP is where the inequalities of the factions really stand out, and the Federation has the edge.
Yes, and for all that customization I stand back in awe at the sheer number of BOPs I see in the queues. I get blinded by the overwhelming presence of the raptor.
Completely serious.
With now a dozen characters covering every class/faction combination, owning half the C-store and being comfortable flying any ship family in this game (not saying masterful, just comfortable, as a reference point), the only thing I have ever found myself truly missing on my Klingon characters is when i want to play with a science leaning cruiser or escorts. In every other function, I'd rather have the KDF ships.
I can use the Varanus as a classical sci ship, or a Vo'quv and do all the sci stuff plus throw out bops or interceptors besides (yeah the Varanus costs money, but so does the Atrox), or do some truly weird stuff with the Kar'fi. Speaking of carriers, on pets the Federation may have runabouts, but for every other purpose the KDF has a vastly superior lineup. There is the Vesta though, which as a classical sci ship is definitely better, but for ultimate results you can still probably get more out of a heavy carrier. Advantage, KDF.
Then there's cruisers. If I want a tank cruiser, the Negh'var can do everything the Galaxy can, plus actually turn. For an attack cruiser there's the Vorcha which beats the snot out of the Regent or Excelsior, and can go all the way and get out my Tor'kaht (I love that thing so much). Go in the other direction and the Bortasqu can be every bit the immovable object of the Odyssey, plus cloaking if I'd like to. Plus I have an entire family of flight deck cruisers, that are otherwise identical to Fed cruisers but simply get that hangar at no mechanical cost. Advantage KDF.
On the escort front, maybe I'm not sensitive enough to it as the people that take the game as Serious Business, but I don't notice much of a difference between the Patrol Escort and the Mirror Qin other than a few shield points here, a few hull points there. Then there's the Guramba, which is just a mean little thing, a patrol escort with an extra mode and BFG that uses no console space to play with. Alternately there's the Kumari, which gets the 5 fore weapons and pays for it giant gaps in his defenses against anything not in its forward arc, and in the tac version a boff layout that makes it a serious glass cannon. It adds up the fact that a lot of fairly good escort drivers I know have shelved their Kumaris and gone back to their Defiants and Armitages, but we'll call it a point for the Feds anyways because its something they can do that the KDF can't. Lastly there IS the lack of versatility, raptors with things like LtCmdr sci or a non-fleet with LtCmdr Eng. It adds up to lots of little advantage Fed side, so we'll call it Advantage Federation.
Next there are BoPs, which are faster than anything but a Bug and gives me a boff flexibility to make any insane combination I can think of, able to be any ship they need to be. Maybe the lack of specialization is a weakness in the world of premade teams, but if you want to build a jack-of-all-trades ship the thing is simply unmatched with no counterpart anywhere. Advantage KDF.
Finally on the console front, KDF has better consoles. Graviton Pulses and Plasmonic Leeches and Aceton Assimilators, oh my. And by having them in the cstore, I make one purchase once and now they're available to summon and dismiss endlessly on as many characters as I like, and ultimately has proven to be cheaper than if I were buying reward packs over and over. Advantage KDF.
And yes I'm fully aware there are a lot of blanket statements here, potentially invalidated by exceptional players who can pull out a Vesta and spank 5 Qins without even trying. Put Captain 50th Percentile at the helm though, or even his awesome cousin Captain 75, and I think this stuff all stands up. If I were to play this game limited to the ship choices of a single faction, and i could only use their ships forever and ever, it would take me about 3 seconds to pick the Klingon offerings.
As for the 'stealing our uniqueness' schtick, oh please. A few consoles go on the exchange and its the end of the world. Feds get a single heavy carrier with no frigates and exactly one useful pet available to it, and the Empire is just crumbling to nothing. Two ships can actually cloak, both requiring console slots to do so, and one of those ships is a joke to boot. Its the final nail in the coffin! Oh but lets pay no attention to all the other advantages the KDF DOES have, or that every good Fed console long ago likewise went cross faction (because THEIR magical 'uniqueness' is irrelevant), or that Federation ships are stronger in exactly one area, or that in that one area its not actually that huge a gap, as acknowledging any of that would cost some of our 'noble underdog' cred that makes us feel so special! Clearly this is the way of the Warrior!
Snark mode in overdrive on that last paragraph? Absolutely. There are whiners on both sides. The difference is most of the Fed ones I see, such as one recently started about mounting DHCs on cruisers or the every-so-often supership idea (if they can be called an 'idea') pretty quickly turn into a small army jumping on the OP for making such a ridiculous suggestion, and as such the thread can be just brushed off. KDF side, so often it seems such similarly moronic suggestions instead get taken seriously, as if 'specialness' or some self-entitled sense of 'oppression' is justification for a ship thats all advantage, no drawback (as i was earlier replying to). If you want balance but differences, that means being strong in one area, and deliberately weak in another. The KDF has a lot of strengths, and so balance requires they have some weaknesses too. Otherwise, where's the uniqueness?
I have always been a strong supporter of faction equality and uniqueness but Cryptic in the last 18 months have shown they don't give a damn. If they can make money off it by giving KDF abilities to the Federation they'll do it and shoot the long-term success of this game in the butt.
All in all it's Cryptic's fault we are in this mess or perhaps more importantly it's probably PWE's fault as most of this happened after they bought Cryptic. Still Cryptic can't be held blameless as they could have come up with ways to keep the factions unique without restoring to the methods they have. They wonder why few play the KDF when a lot of the more Klingon style stuff is actually more readily available and actually better on the Federation side.
If the Varanus is such a good vessel why don't we see more of them? I'll let you why, it's a direct copy (with the smallest differences like less aux power and a slightly better inertia rating) of the Federation Deep Space Science vessel, a free Federation ship at level 40. Is such a ship worth 2000 Zen? I don't have an issue with all KDF science ships being C-store ones, but I do expect a decent ship for my science Captain.
The carrier, it may have a high science boff power, but it is by no means a science ship in traditional terms. You also forgot to mention how many Fed whine threads demanded they get carriers and guess what they finally got it. We are only asking for something for our science Captains to fly that isn't a carrier or a copy and paste Federation level 40 ship. I don't think that is too much to ask.
I'll give you that one, all in all our cruisers are better, it's really the one true advantage the KDF has.
You forgot to mention that with the pivot point issue the Raptor has a shotty turn to bring it's fore weapons on a target and due to this it's turn rate is very misleading. Again the Federation has a great advantage here and we are just asking for some equality. As patrickngo said above me, if the Andorian ships are so bad, why are they everywhere still? So many KDF due to how bad out escort line is are forced to fly Battlecruisers. The KDF are warlike, a race of warriors so shouldn't as patrickngo said, the KDF have the advantage in the escort line and the Federation have the advantage in the science line. The cruiser line is fine as it is.
Again I will echo the statements of patrickngo, the Auxiliary emergency power has made cloaking in a BOP just too dangerous and not worth the risk. The line of ships is incredibly outdated and needs a serious buff to it's hull and a additional forward weapon slot to make them a viable alternative to a Raptor for a tactical Captain and for a Science Captain all of who are forced to fly something else other than a full science vessel.
Yes the KDF has better consoles no arguing that, my problem is neither faction should have access to either factions console, but each time there has been a swap we get the short end of the straw, many consoles should have been off limits for the swap, the best consoles of both factions should have remained faction unique. The timing of the latest lock box console swap was adding salt to the wound as many Romulans were going KDF until this swap was announced. It was out hope to bring more population to the KDF to even things out a bit.
Not to mention the D'Kora is a viable Battlecruiser for the Federation, but point taken as the Chel'Ghett was free and the D'Kora is not and really how long until the Federation get cruisers that can run dual heavies and have a much smaller turn rate? They already have the Vesta that can run dual heavies.
^ This. In a Mirror Qin (PVE) and don't see anything else I can upgrade to. Like the ability to have a Eng Ensign to swap EPtS or EPtW compared to a wasted Tac Ensign on the Fleet Qin... Can't remember why I didn't like the Fleet Somraw at the moment but the point is I don't think I have another option if I want a fast, tough, cloaking 4 fwd/3 aft ship. And I've learned to adapt to the pivot issue...
Addicted: January 2012
batlh QIH 'ej!
I highly disagree, the Feds have way more ship types than us and have way more flexibility and not to mention many of those ships are newer C-store types (Kumari, Vesta, etc.) and the last time we have a Tier 5 C-store ship was the Bortasqu' which came out like what over 1 year now and during that time the Feds have 6-7 ships came out on the C-store.
i agree with many of my fellow KDF players that the BoP's and Raptors are obsolete right now, right now the only good class of ships on the KDF side are the battle cruisers, nowadays u see mostly KDF players in pvp now using either lock box ships or KDF Rommie player warbirds. i do believe that any new raptors thats gonna come out in the future (C-store or Fleet) should have and need 5 tac consoles with some having 5 fore/ 2 aft or maintain the 4 fore / 3 aft weapons setup. and as for the current and future tier 5 BoP's, they should have 1 extra Lt. Com BOff station (like the Norgh' but with 10 total console slots not 9) and/or having 1 extra aft weapon slot.
My main character ship is a Fleet B'rel retrofit, but since the release of the expansion fighting with a Stealth torpedo ship is now useless most of the time thx to the now broken/bugged EPtA I, II and III which can detect my ship even a long distance even though my skills on stealth is max plus with over 600 stealth bonus from my rommie boff's via Embassy and my ship having a total of 128 aux (130 aux max) which doe not mean anything to any person having no sensor skill and barely having no aux and only detecting my ship by using EPtA I.
Thx Cryptic....
A few corrections:
First, the BoP is no faster than any other escort. It has a .2 impulse modifier, like every other escort/raptor/destroyer in the game. There are two ships that can move faster than the BoP. . .the Steamrunner (.21 mod) and the JHAS (.22 mod). What the BoP has is turning rate. . .and it's not as big of an advantage as you'd think, especially since every escort out there probably runs at least one copy of APO. The only reason why some BoPs may seem faster is that they are probably running high on engines and weapon power, sacrificing shield and aux power.
We have an edge in carriers, but that edge has been eroded by Cryptic giving into selfish Federation demands for carriers. . .and now the Federation has a full-fledged carrier (Atrox) and several flight deck carriers that can carry dual cannons (something the KDF doesn't have). Please note that this loss of an edge via a ship class has not been compensated by the addition of good science ships on the KDF side, or by the addition of better raptors to balance out that part of the equation. We essentially 'lost' an exclusive class because the Feddies stamped their feet loudly enough. . .but of course, that's not good enough.
Again about the BoP: The vaunted 'jack of all trades' benefits are severely limited by the fact that most BoPs cannot survive in sustained combat due to both low shield modifiers and low hullstrength. There's a reason most BoPs are set up for hit-and-run harassing attacks designed to find the weaknesses in someone's defenses. They simply cannot sit there and duke it out like a full-fledged escort can. The main roles for BoP right now are this: Hit and run attacking, or makeshift sci support ship (minus the benefits a real sci ship gets, including the aux boost).
bops are supposed to be the only kdf ships battle claoking (disregard the 1000day vet reward)
At least six actually. You forgot the fastest ship in the game. Risian Corvette (.25), plus all three vet destroyer class ships (.22)
To be fair, this is a necroed thread from before the Corvette was in the game.