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KDF needs a 5 tac Raptor
sjokruhlica
Member Posts: 434 Arc User
The Feds have the Tactical Escort Retrofit. The Rommies have the Fleet ha'feh, with 5 tac consoles *and* battle cloak. It's time for the KDF to have a access to a raptor with 5 tactical consoles.
Post edited by sjokruhlica on
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A bonafide, 5 TAC Guramba would cause a serious s**tstorm in the KDF ranks if that happens. And I mean that in a positive way. When the Fleet shipyard system was introduced, there were alot of pleas for a Fleet Guramba.
The KDF Raptor / Destroyer line used to be quite on par with the Fed equivalents, but the Fleet System and the introduction of the markedly superior Fed Fleet Escorts quickly overshadowed them. KDF Battlecruisers are trying to take up the slack, but it's quite not on the same level as a dedicated Escort. BOPs are out there, but they are terrible for sustained combat. And in certain situations, a BOP's hit & run nature will leave their friends alone as they execute the tactics the ship is designed for.
As for what to mount such a configuration on, I imagine its currently not on any raptors because they didn't want to make the a 5-console + decloak alpha so available. Yes the Defiant can do that, but it pays for it with a wasteful tac ensign and having to spend one of its few remaining console slots on the cloak. The Fleet MVAE has the same wasteful ensign problem, and the Kumari boosts it up to a wasted lieutenant. A new raptor would likely have a better boff layout (since the Fleet Qin already does the tac-ensign thing) and effectively gets an extra console slot anyways due to the built-in cloak. (However big an advantage cloaking may or may not be is a seperate discussion; its an ability that raptors get at no mechanical cost.) If a ship came out with 5 tac consoles, and the free cloak, and a good boff layout, it would be flat-out better than any other KDF tac ship and make the whole rest of the family obsolete. Different is good, but if A is better than B in any situation, thats unbalanced.
Mounting on the Guramba might be a better choice since it doesn't have the cloak or a special console, and it would work well with disruptor lance. The only catch is it has the near perfect boff layout and so would still likely end up flat-out superior.
A new ship might be the best choice, maybe Ferasan or Gorn or something totally new. 5 tac consoles on the Fleet version, no cloak, a 15-16 degree turn rate, a new ship-limited pay-toy console, and maybe the same boff layout as the MVAE (since the KDF is short on science-oriented ships). That would be well balanced against other ships without making anything obsolete, give the KDF a new T5 ship to play with, and allow the 5 tac console layout for those who just can't live without it. I don't see a real downside to that sort of approach.
Presenting the all new - Fleet Dhelan Warbird Retrofit and Fleet Ha'feh Assault Warbird.
Both come with an built in Romulan battlecloak, 5 tac.consoles and pretty nice Boff layout IMHO. And Romulan decloak alpha is deadlier than Klingon decloak alpha.
Not saying anything pro or against your post, just pointing out that it has already been done.
The Romulan Warbirds are already quite capable of what you described. They have 5 TAC Console ships, all having at the bare minimum Battle Cloaks. Not to mention the Romulan BOFF traits like Subterfuge to make their decloaking attacks that much deadlier.
The only 5 TAC Console ship the KDF has is the Bortasqu', and even with the LOR update which does help it, it's still not the ideal platform for such offensive strength like a BOP, Destroyer, or Raptor would.
Also, having 5 TAC Console ships helps in rounding out any of the faction fleets. There are ample examples of 5 SCI, ENG, and TAC Consoled ships in Starfleet. The Romulans, though having a smaller ship selection ATM, are capably covered with 5 Consoled ships in all 3 categories. The Klingons? Though having a larger ship selection, and for a ship design that is supposedly offensive oriented, has 1 sluggish Cruiser with a 5 TAC Console layout, a few with 5 ENG Consoles, and no 5 SCI consoled ships. Not one of the carriers are 5 SCI capable, and even the Fleet Veranus, the ONLY truly dedicated Science Vessel of the KDF line, only has 4 SCI consoles.
The Console layout allows something in the ship lineup to be specialists, to put every ounce of being into performing well in that task. The Fleet Defiants, MVAE do that, and they do it very well. 5 ENG Consoles allow that ship to be built tough and / or do great in repairs and such. 5 SCI Consoles allow those Science Vessels to perform SCI abilities to the maximum extent possible. 5 TAC Consoles allow offensive ships to hit the hardest possible way they can.
Right now, the KDF ship lineup is weak. IMHO, the only thing that props the KDF up are the Battlecruisers and Carriers. Birds of Prey have been overtaken with the power creep in all other enemy ships. The Escorts aren't competitive to Starfleet and now Romulan Escorts. The Romulans have a superior Cloaked Torpedo Boat and have easily, handily replaced the B'Rel in that role. Hell, the Fleet T'Varo is a Lv 1 Fleet Shipyard ship, while the Fleet B'Rel requires a Lv 5 Fleet Shipyard, and is still far weaker than the T'Varo.
5 TAC Consoled Escorts / Destroyers in the KDF are needed to prop up the KDF line. For the faction that is supposedly obsessed with "Attack," its ships have been overtaken by the opposition. Even the newest players on the field, the Romulans, are far better in the offensive role, most especially coming out of Cloaks.
There are priorities in the life before sto'vo'kor!
Another reason the BOP line needs a buff, for such an iconic ship. To be honest I feel the Raptors should have been science orientated tactical ships to give science officers something cool. Science ships with teeth and the BOP's should have been our escorts. But the BOP line is useless now that all a player needs is EPtA and then they can see any cloaked ship from like 30km out. With the BOP such fragile hull there isn't much point even using it anymore, you'll be better with a Raptor or Battlecruiser.
But considering they (BOP) will never be what I want, a Raptor with the correct pivot point would fill this role ideally. The problems I see with the Guramba having the 5th tac slot is a lot of the Federation players complaining due to it having that and the Javelin in one ship. All the rage threads about it being OP, yet the FLeet Defiant has been this way for far too long. I mean they are already complaining about the Romulans being OP, I saw in in both zone chat and my Fed fleet fleet channel a few times.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
The guramba as no cloak. To stay competitive with the Feds and especially now the Romulans, a 5 tac console ship with a cloak is needed. I'd go with a raptor, because like a previous poster said, BoPs are hopelessly outdated. All BoPs would need a third rear weapon , and some more hull strength, to keep up.
Buying 4 fleet mods off the exchange and joining one of the 5569875613265489745 T4 fed fleet's out there is hard? wtf are you smoking!
A Tier 3 Military Shipyard isn't that hard with even medium sized fleets. Most especially with the immense Federation playerbase. Tier 4 Shipyards is where fleets tend to stall getting to, much less Tier 5. Most especially KDF Fleets. And the underpowered Fleet B'Rel is a Tier 5 ship, while the very powerful Fleet Defiant is merely a Tier 3 ship. Even the well-regarded Fleet MVAE is a Tier 4 ship.
Fleet Somraw Raptor variant
Fleet Tor'khat variant
Fleet Blowfish vessel whose name escapes me.
Or they could make something new like a Ferasin vessel or Leathean, etc.
R.I.P
Blowfish, you mean the Kar'Fi right?
I'd put my support down for a Lethean ship, though a science ship for them I'd like to see, we need science ships. Perhaps the Lethean ship would the KDF version of the Vesta while the D5 suggestion being a more standardised Science ship. A Ferasan escort would be good. There is an entire Ferasan fleet out there and so I think it would be hugely popular.
5 Tac console Pach! :P
If every Romulan ship has Battle Cloak we deserve at least an Escort with Battle cloak.
I'm not sure which Raptor skin to give but we got at least one unused Fleet Raptor left right?
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
While I agree that the BoPs could use a bit of a hull buff (not exceeding 27.500 HP on fleet version and maybe a 3rd aft/5th fore weapon), I don't think they're useless. I started off mostly with battlecruisers, but I've been trying out the BoPs these last couple of months and I must admit they have grown on me.
The raider is a immensly fun ship to fly, but it takes a lot of time, effort and knowledge to master it and make it work. Sure, in certain situations the BoPs need to be coordinated with other BoPs to fully work, but it's a MMO after all so that's a part of what they are. I still think that all universal Boff stations give a nice edge in what one wants to do.
And the problem is? Feds. will complain about everything and anything, you know that. :rolleyes:
Not necessarily. Theirs have cloak, ours would have the Javelin. I see tha Javelin as a trade-off to the cloak.
Well, seen how the Somraw and Qin Raptors already have fleet variants I don't think that they will go down that route with those ships unless they make one of them into a fleet 3-pack, but somehow I really don't see it happening, although I'd like for it to happen.
The Tor'kaht is pretty much fine as it is and I don't think they would touch that either, not that I'd mind it having 5 tac. consoles, that would be a mennace.
The Kar'fi is a candidate and I could definitely go with a Ferasan escort/raptor that has 5 tac. consoles. Or some mean new Klingon design from the 25th century.
I know you didn't meant it like it sounds (maybe it's just me), but I'm just going to say that the KDF doesn't need a version of the Vesta. We need something completely different, not just copy paste from the Fed. model(I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that). No point in having everything the same, gets dull. A Lethean sci.ship model based on electronic warefare would fit the KDF nicely I think.
As a member of the mentioned Ferasan fleet, I fully endorse this idea!
Why not? Feds and Roms get 5 tac.console ships with alpha decloak potential, we get one with a Javelin. It's a fair tradeoff in my book.
Then I can just storm in PvP, open all hailing frequencies and say: "All you undari do is cloak, cloak and cloak, but you have no Guramba!!!" :P
Oh, I'm buying one 5 tac. fleet Guramba yesterday!
PS. Stop trying to push MORE battle cruisers out, we have enough for the love of god... As a tac captian, knock it off.
P.S.S Give us a d**m mirror BoP already!
R.I.P
Romulans suffer a bit for that Battle Cloak, how would a Raptor suffer in return?
There are two raptors that are unused, the Qorgh and the Pach...obviously I'm a fan of the latter!
On the whole Guramba thing, I didn't say the KDF shouldn't have a 5 tac console ship, I'm just not sure the Guramba is the ship for that. Give the Fleet version a 5 tac console and feds will complain...then next thing you know Siege Mode will have a 80% negative turn modifier because of Fed whining.
5 TAC, 3 ENG, 2 SCI.
I don't care if they trash the UNI station uniqueness too for that matter for this:
TAC CMDR
SCI LT
ENG LT
UNI LT CMDR
UNI ENS
Raptor
Hull: 33000
Shield mod: .95
Weapons: 4/3 can equip cannons
crew: 200
BOFFs: Commander tac, Lt. Commander tac, Lt, Eng, Lt. Sci, Ensign universal
Device slots:2
Consoles, 5 tac, 2 eng, 3 sci
Turn rate:16
Inertia: 50
Impulse mod: .20
+15 to weapon power
Cloak (or battle cloak, but that's wishful thinking)
Its a sweet build to be sure, but I would prefer that it first gets its pivot fixed before we end up with a problem again. There is a reason hardly anyone outside PvE fly Raptors.
I believe that the Somraw fixed some of that so would be hopeful that Cryptic translate that ship type if they decide on something.
Any Feddies whining about the combination of 5 tac consoles and the Javelin can suck eggs. The thing is barely applicable to PvP due to the huge turnrate and speed decrease. It's a PvE weapon.
A nice trick to add to the thing would be to have something like the Plasmonic Leech built in. Right now it drains a bit of weapon power to 'charge' the Javelin while in Siege Mode (which, again, is pretty useless in competitive PvP because you turn like a floating brick). Expand that to draining power from all subsystems the way PL does, only have the power feed into the Javelin instead of your own subsystems. Oh, and make the Javelin more powerful
Does it come with a big button marked 'i win' too? It seems like half the arguments here are wanting 'parity' (which means 'Klingon Uniqueness' stays unique, but they get everything the Federation has too), or something that just adds bonuses without any drawbacks.
Maybe instead think in terms of that for every advantage that gets added to a ship, even an advantage some people may have little use for but that are advantages nonetheless, think of a weakness, an actual weakness, that also gets added. Thats where that whole 'balance' thing comes from. The only 'better at everything' ships in the game are the Bug, the Vesta, and the Tor'kaht; no need to add more to that infamous line.
Nothing I am jist pointing out how hard it is and if you can't get the zen to get those modules like me.It is not going to be easy to get the 8mil ec to get it.
The Kdf have wider varity of ships to choose from like the Kafri and the Destroyers.
Kdf have more criusers that can be fitted with cannons being that of single,duel or duel heavy.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers