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Tovan Khev feedback thread why do you love/hate him?
stonewbie
Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
Hey everybody,
I was actually curious as to why a lot of people hate this guy. I'm one of those people that dislike him, but i wanted to hear your specific reasons. But to make it equal i would also like to hear from the people that do like him.
In as few words as possible describe why you dislike or like him. Please do not debate the right or wrong with other posters, just post if you LIKE or DISLIKE him and why (be specific). I'll start:
DISLIKE Tovan
why?
-during cutscenes he has a tendency to butt in or 'steal the show' so to speak
-he is too 'intertwined' into the episode story content
-cannot be discharged
-when not part of the away team he still shows up in the pop up dialogue window
-when not in your away team sometimes his head is replaced by a generic andorian head (probably a placeholder)
So thats it for me...I guess the last straw for me was when i was doing a mission. I wont go over specifics for spoiler reasons, but basically i captured one of my enemies in a force field. It switched to the cutscene and front and center is Tovan (note: he wasnt a member of my away team either). His line went something like this: "OK you! time to answer some questions". He takes a few steps forward says some more dialogue but the questioning portion is interrupted. I wont say why due to spoilers, but the reason isn't relevant to the point i was trying to make. I was expecting it to be me that was front and center. Even though our player characters are mute, meaning that the scene would not have been as dramatic, it still should have been me up there. Anyways enough about that...
I was actually curious as to why a lot of people hate this guy. I'm one of those people that dislike him, but i wanted to hear your specific reasons. But to make it equal i would also like to hear from the people that do like him.
In as few words as possible describe why you dislike or like him. Please do not debate the right or wrong with other posters, just post if you LIKE or DISLIKE him and why (be specific). I'll start:
DISLIKE Tovan
why?
-during cutscenes he has a tendency to butt in or 'steal the show' so to speak
-he is too 'intertwined' into the episode story content
-cannot be discharged
-when not part of the away team he still shows up in the pop up dialogue window
-when not in your away team sometimes his head is replaced by a generic andorian head (probably a placeholder)
So thats it for me...I guess the last straw for me was when i was doing a mission. I wont go over specifics for spoiler reasons, but basically i captured one of my enemies in a force field. It switched to the cutscene and front and center is Tovan (note: he wasnt a member of my away team either). His line went something like this: "OK you! time to answer some questions". He takes a few steps forward says some more dialogue but the questioning portion is interrupted. I wont say why due to spoilers, but the reason isn't relevant to the point i was trying to make. I was expecting it to be me that was front and center. Even though our player characters are mute, meaning that the scene would not have been as dramatic, it still should have been me up there. Anyways enough about that...
Post edited by stonewbie on
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Comments
1 He won't shut the hell up
2 He keeps saying "were going to need a new plan"
3 he blew up a shuttle
4 I am planning to have some reman crews for my reman captains and he isn't dismissable
5 he has a bad attitude
6 I was on nimbus and there were 30 of them out and about
I've always wanted BOFFs with a story of their own, their own look and their own voice since I first started playing the game.
His scenes and story (from what I have seen so far) are really well done, and I can see that a lot of work has gone into creating these new BOFFs, and Khev most especially. This is, quite frankly the best content I have ever seen in this game (in my opinion).
The only problem I see with this new direction, is having to go through Khev's story every time I want to create a new Romulan.
He dictates my characters actions and even personality with little to no input from me.
He is a hamfisted vehicle for Cryptic's shoehorned in Romulan Republic storyline. Listening to him is like listening to Propaganda.
Chains you to the Romulan republic faction where I'd rather be fightign for the RSE.
Never gives you the opportunity to tell him to shut up. Or even to dissent.
It's abundantly clear that LoR is meant to be his story and not ours.
Won't shut up about his sister or how mean and bad the Tal Shiar/Sela are.
Installation 18 Was the first mission as well for me where he wasn't included in the ground party setup. The disconnect in the cutscenes/story without him is rather poorly done.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Some sort of acknowledgment of the wrongness of Divide et Imperative on the Fed side, along those lines, would've gone a long way.
But I'm basically with whoever said in another thread, "Tovan's my wingman." Once I got him to look and dress the way I wanted him to (to fit the unconventional man I had in mind who would've so closely befriended a Reman woman, damn the social stigma and nasty innuendos he would've had to put up with from other Romulans), I felt like he really fit into my story. Yes, he has a lot to do with the story too, but my toon has a definite motivation to help him since their friendship goes back so far.
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For every reason said in this thread so far.
I liked giving my own stories to my boffs. The ones that I picked.
My only hope is that when the Cardassian faction is released, there'll be a mission where we capture Tovan and subject him to gratuitous torture in the name of justice.
So, he's not stellar. A bit bland, definitely a "goody-goody" in the vein of Spider-Man (snarky but not a jerk).
But I've never found him to be imposing upon my character. His dialog assumes little about my toon beyond the fact they have been friends a while, so it's never bothered me. And, IMO, he has a gift for knowing just when I'm starting to get tired of him talking; the writer seems to have a great grasp of how much dialog is enough when voiced. His story has very little impact on what I'm doing as well, and some of it is even optional (such as asking certain NPCs about his sister).
I can see why people would be upset about aspects of him, though. The undismissable thing is definitely a mark against him, as is the customizability thing. His biggest problem is he leaves little wiggle room for a truly evil character to make any sense alongside him.
Ultimately he adds a lot to the RR story, and I wouldn't have it any other way. He makes it more engaging, more interesting, and maybe even a little more fun. One BOff slot is a small sacrifice for the quality he helps bring to everything.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
-Not just some random BOFF; he has a backstory and is with you since the beginning.
-Has a decent skill set
Reasons why I dislike him:
-A whining liability; his little spat with Sela on Khitomer was embarrassing. I just wanted to say "Keep quiet and let ME do the talking."
-Non-dismissable
-The eyebrow tattoo is obnoxious. Who the hell do you think you are? Chakotay?
He only ads to the RR story if you like how he plays. For those of us who don't insisting that he adds to the story isn't going to move anyone. His attitude actually detracts from the story for me. He doesn't fit how I picture my character as operating and the story I was wanting to play.
He also just comes off as very hamfisted in regards to moving you through the story.
So all in all I think one BOFF slot is a lot to pay for if you don't like the guy. Pretty much at this point in order to get the crew I want I need to buy more BOFF slots. And even then it still wouldn't remove him from the story.
I'm still giving the Romulan experience a try but so far I still have found my Federation experience to be the most satisfying. Exactly because my bridge crew is actually my bridge crew and not a series of NPC's whom I'm stuck with and had little say over.
You can dismiss the others. Only Tovan is stuck to you.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Tovan is the one I don't like and thats the problem. I can't dismiss him. I don't know why everyone wants to convince me (or anyone else) that Tovan is good when we don't feel he is.
Is it to much to ask to be able to dismiss even Tovan? If he isn't to our liking why do we have to keep him? Or if we have to keep him could we at least not get a free BOFF slot?
His dialogue assumes little? Almost every conversation I've had so far has limited my speaking choices to a slightly reworded variation on what Tovan says, or fawning agreement with what Tovan says. He's the main character in about 70% of the cutscenes and interactions, not me.
He may be customisable, but only within the confines of being a Romulan male; what if my character wanted an Alien, Reman, or Female BFF? Tough, apparently.
He butts in during almost every mission, even if I park his undismissable backside on the ship and try to ignore him(in my mind he's in the brig being tortured by having a recording of his own irritating simpering voice played on a continual loop at earsplitting volume). Honestly it's this part that actually makes my vague dislike rise to the level of primal hatred, because it impacts my ability to play the game the way I want to play it; without his constant interruptions, I could at least put my boffs in Tal Shiar uniforms, and mentally assign a sarcastic or deceptive tone to any written speech my character makes that I disagree with, but even that is denied to me, because every time something that doesn't fit with my character comes up during the storyline, here's bloody Tovan to make absolutely sure I can't escape the fact that the devs have decided we're only allowed to play our Romulan characters the way THEY want us to.
We are PWE. Your forums and game accounts will be added to our own. Your community will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
On the other hand... really wish a reward for the last story mission was "You can now dismiss Tovan Khev."
This, this and more of this.
So +1 for like and dislike there.
However, ultimately I feel he is a overall good force for the game. It also helps that I really wish I could be RSE or the Romulan republic was a client state of the Feds. As it, I'm more interested in his story then I am the PCs story for the Rommies.
Things I like about Tovan:
Tag-along story is a nice change.
Starting skills/traits are pretty decent, only need to train him with 1 skill.
Things I Dislike about Tovan:
Constantly interrupting me. If I want your input, I'll ask for it!
'Recommend we engage cloak'...really? I hadn't figured that out, thanks.
Constantly tries to steal my thunder.
But, more than anything, I want to put a plasma burst through is face and throw him out an airlock for one simple reason;
He's a Romulan, but acts like a whiny member of Starfleet. 'Are we really going to help attack this colony?' Yes, we are. Get over it. The ends justify the means, I know what I'm doing, now shut up and do your job!
After playing the Romulan storyline, the guy kinda' grew on me. I didn't know how the story Cryptic made unfolded before that (yes, I'm one of those who don't want to play on Tribble, but rather be suprised with new awsomness on Holodeck;)),but the way this story is told and turns out, I really have no problem with Tovan. I think he fits the role he has very well and it's obvious that my char. and Tovan have been friends for a long time and survived the destruction of their colony togehther.
Neither my char., nor Tovan is a skilled and experienced starship captain, so I get the vibe that two palls just complement each other and watch each others backs trying to survive for another day with all that's going on and being Tal'Shiar's most wanted.
He doesn't come out to me as being bossy or the story revolving exculisvely around him, it's what I would expect from two close friends to behave around each other in the situations I find myslef with Tovan.
My biggest deal-breaker was not being able to customize Tovan's appearance. After Cryptic decided to make that possible, so I can put him in a proper Republic uniform, erase the eye-tattoo and adjust his appearence to look unique to me, I'm completely cool with him.
So now, I actually like Tovan. I don't think that I'll ever want to discharge him or not use him. I want him on every away mission with me. Besides, he's a purple Boff with very usefull traits so he's not a drawback, but rather a real asset in my crew. In fact, I don't think I'll be deleting any of my starter Boffs I got playing through the missions. I like the way the came to be a part of my crew, it has a lot of personality to it even if I wasn't the one to create that scenario myself like I do for my KDF and Fed. crews.
Example:
[Spoilers]
During one of the missions 2 Klingons have been captured by the Tal Shiar as the player attempts to infiltrate them. What you'd expect from a Romulan officer to say is:
"Two incompetent Klingons have allowed themselves to be captured, it seems those barbarians take death before capture not as serious as they would have us believe. However if they break under Tal Shiar interrogation, they may expose us Commander. I suggest we try to interrogate these prisoners ourselves alone, and dispose of them before they can reveal anything."
Instead we get a human-like dialogue where Tovan tells us that we can't leave our Klingon friends like this, and that we need to save our valued Klingon allies.
Aid in leading the Romulan Star Empire back to its former greatness.
Join the Romulan Praetorian Guard and teach those epohh loving hippies what it means to be a true Romulan!
I've had two years of playing STO, mostly for the role play elements, and I've grown to like having COMPLETE control over my BOffs. Even when we had special BOffs for FED and KDF players that we couldn't edit (like the original Reman BOff, the Breen BOff and the Jem'Hadar BOff) we still had the OPTION not to let them join our crews or discharge them after they joined.
I appreciate that the devs are trying new things and I don't have any bad feelings toward player who like Tovan. If you like him you should have the OPTION to keep him and if you hate his guts you should have the OPTION to get rid of him.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
His midichlorian count is a bit low for my tastes, but hey I have a borg and a reman in my crew so I can overlook that one shortcoming.
However, for those who dislike Tovan, I would agree on asking Cryptic to be able to dismiss Tovan at Subadmiral or Vice Admiral, as your journey goes separate ways from old friends, and meeting new ones. Losing a BOff that is able to have complete voiceovers does seem a bit unforgiving, though...
Anyway, I'm the one who said Tovan is my wingman, and I stand by that. Even if he acted like a Klingon for the opening of 'Frozen' by calling the Tal Shiar captain a petaQ before remembering we're Romulans. But I blame that on Cryptic not fully checking bridge officer commentary in the reworked storyline.
lol that has to be the most funny part about the poor boff
At least you can change the way he looks .
I don't think you understand the word "compromise."
Appeasing the people that hate Tovan by making him even more of a permanent presence is the exact opposite of compromise.