Fleet Starbases creating Duty Officer exchange madness

bootyboots · April 2013

Please look at the exchange

Why do common medical and security officers cost more than uncommon and most rare duty officers?

Because Starbase duty officer requirements do not match drop tables.

Please correct this Cryptic, this issue is causing an extreme unbalance in the exchange and making an impossible obstacle for small fleets to advance.

I know of two times Devs have looked at this issue, the first time they were rather dismissive about it, the second time there was only a hint of a consideration about addressing it (and in a manner that only partially addressed the issue)

iskandus · April 2013

I understand your concerns. From my point of view, as a provider of Security and Medical common doff on the exchange, this trade is one of the most lucrative for my treasury. But let me explain why they are so expensive - because they are rare. When I source common doff, they typically come from exchange of uncommon doff into 3 common doff. For every 100 common doff I obtain, I estimate only 10-15% of those are either Security or Medical. Because the prices of these two are so high, I exclusively set them aside for the exchange while the other common doff become contribution to my fleet and/or candidates for Officer Exchange program with Bajoran, Cardassian, Karemman and Paradan authorities. Occasionally, I will also get some refugees.

But more importantly, the price is being decided by the markets. I generally sell those doff between 70-100K per doff, which is very lucrative. If there is no demand for these doff, the price will fall. But the truth is, they are sold very quickly, even when a biochemist is going for 85K - it's snatched up within a few minutes. I tend to provide those at or near the best market price so they sell quickly.

My suggestion is if your fleet is small, you should recruit more new members and some of them will either be more economically efficient or have more disposable EC. Or your fleet can be a little more organized in farming your own doff sources. It can be done. Another trick is if you have an unwanted or lowly priced rare or very rare doff, you can exchange those for lower tier doff all the way down to common level, they can yield quite a bit of doff.

bootyboots · April 2013

your solutions only add to the problem

I go though thousands of science doffs just to get medical doffs, I haven't been placing them on the market yet.

recruiting more players is not a solution either, as it just splits the work

right now it takes hours to gather 100 medical doffs to fill a project

my fleet still needs about 13,500 medical doffs to get to tier-5, that means we will be producing an excess of over 20,000 science doffs that aren't needed at all on the way. And this is just my fleet. An almost as bad situation is happening with security and tactical.

I know they are rare, I am suggesting that the fleet projects reflect that rarity rather than create even more demand for otherwise useless duty officers.

I'm happy for you that you are getting rich, but this is a problem for players in general whether they realize it our not

markhawkman · April 2013

I tend to compact extra sci/tac commons....

mimey2 · April 2013

The other day, Bort said they may change the project requirements to all need a mixture of DOFFs. so instead of needing say... 50 tacs and 50 security apart. Instead you would only need 100 tac/security mixed together.

liquidraven26 · April 2013

Simple Fix -Any color can be used - the more rare the more it is worth

White Doff = 1
Green Doff = 2
Blue Doff = 4
Purple Doff = 6

markhawkman · April 2013

that's not simple Raven. Bort explained that they can't do that without recoding the way the system works entirely.

But yeah a change to the way the project slotting works seems liek the easiest fix.

bootyboots · April 2013

mimey2 wrote: »

The other day, Bort said they may change the project requirements to all need a mixture of DOFFs. so instead of needing say... 50 tacs and 50 security apart. Instead you would only need 100 tac/security mixed together.

that wasn't the other day, that was 2 weeks ago and it was a very non-committal comment that only addressed the science/medical problem

markhawkman · April 2013

It was here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=614071

darthwoo · April 2013

markhawkman wrote: »

that's not simple Raven. Bort explained that they can't do that without recoding the way the system works entirely.

But yeah a change to the way the project slotting works seems liek the easiest fix.

Not sure why it would be so complicated. Is that not exactly what they did the last time they changed the fleet holding costs? IIRC, certain projects, tier upgrades I think, used to require separate subcategories of DOFFs, and some even required very specific types (e.g. sensor officers for one of the op asset projects).

urniv821 · April 2013

These costs kill fleet without massive EC to spend on exchange doffs.. I hope they fix this soon.

I had to open literally 300 medical/science duty officer packs just to get 60 medical doffs.. its a little ridiculous.

phyrexianhero · April 2013

I've offered several suggestions for ways this could be fixed, such as this. Buying a tactical/security doff pack from starbase gives a 2:1 split and for science/medical it's 3:1. Engineering/operations is approximately 1:1.

mimey2 wrote: »

The other day, Bort said they may change the project requirements to all need a mixture of DOFFs. so instead of needing say... 50 tacs and 50 security apart. Instead you would only need 100 tac/security mixed together.

This would be a fair fix to the problem in my mind. Stahl had mentioned reducing costs across the board, but has offered no insight into what currencies (fleet marks, dilithium, doffs, etc.), what tiers, or to what extent.

markhawkman · April 2013

darthwoo wrote: »

Not sure why it would be so complicated. Is that not exactly what they did the last time they changed the fleet holding costs? IIRC, certain projects, tier upgrades I think, used to require separate subcategories of DOFFs, and some even required very specific types (e.g. sensor officers for one of the op asset projects).

This was addressed by Borticus earlier. He mentioned that there is (currently) no way to add OR logic to the progress bar. OR logic for inputs is already there, they COULD let you contribute purples if they wanted to. they don't want to because the code to scale the progress based on quality inputted doesn't exist(yet).

I think the issue would be reasonably well fixed by simply using sci or tactical branch for those upgrades.

bootyboots · May 2013

still no action on this issue from cryptic?

I'm not understanding how a fleet of 25 casual players is expected to collect 90 medical/security doffs every day at the miserable drop rates and ultrahigh exchange prices

markhawkman · May 2013

Bort already said his peice, we'll hear more after they make a decision.

whoami2 · May 2013

I bought a white officer and it cost me 1,000,001 EC!

f9thaceshigh · May 2013

darthwoo wrote: »

Not sure why it would be so complicated. Is that not exactly what they did the last time they changed the fleet holding costs? IIRC, certain projects, tier upgrades I think, used to require separate subcategories of DOFFs, and some even required very specific types (e.g. sensor officers for one of the op asset projects).

They can't do that because the system can't recognize different rarities as different values, they could have it accept 100 doffs of any rarity, but they currently cannot make it accept either 100 white doffs or 10 purple doffs.

bootyboots · May 2013

markhawkman wrote: »

Bort already said his peice, we'll hear more after they make a decision.

bort said that over 3 weeks ago and his 'piece' was nothing more than a passing what if comment to us, the issue was also addressed in a non-committal way months ago by another dev.

If we drop the issue, they will drop the issue as it would not look like a serious player concern.

Personally I would like a firm response on the issue, even if the response is "we aren't changing anything".

milanvorius · May 2013

Starbase doff requirements remained broken, just less so. Let us contribute any quality of doff that meets the functioanl requirement. Yeah, I may dump a blue nurse into a starbase (not likely) but let me. I would most likely dump green medical doffs in, all it would do is increase the pool of options.

Fixing the drop ratios to be inline with the starbase requirements would be the propper solution but I would accept my suggestion as a partial fix. Really this is a military organization. if they are full of some types of doffs, then Starfleet will recruit and train to their deficiencies.

futurepastnow · May 2013

The simplest fix I can think of would be for the fleet doff packs to make two random rolls instead of one.

My fleet is grinding its way toward Science V (got Military V and Starbase V), so we need a frigging ton of science and medical doffs. Sci is no problem. Med is, as the OP says.

Every so often I buy 50-100 of the common fleet science doff packs- which give you a white doff of either the science or medical profession. In practice, this results in a medical doff about 10% of the time. It is truly random, but there are far fewer medicals in the reward table.

So instead of making one random roll to pick a doff, I'd propose having these dual-type packs make two rolls: first a 50/50 roll to determine if the doff will be sci or med (or ops or eng, or tac or sec), then roll for a random doff of that type.

This won't completely solve the problem, but it wouldn't be too difficult to implement, and it would make me hate myself less for wasting so many credits on science doffs.

jivedutch · May 2013

Best fix to these problems would be to just scrap the different types altogether, and make the projects eat up any class officer by color, red/blue/yellow instead.

That mechanic is already in the system for some projects, never understood the need to artificially cripple the projects system so much with certain type requirements, like the 250 DOSI for the bartenders.

markhawkman · May 2013

futurepastnow wrote: »

The simplest fix I can think of would be for the fleet doff packs to make two random rolls instead of one.

My fleet is grinding its way toward Science V (got Military V and Starbase V), so we need a frigging ton of science and medical doffs. Sci is no problem. Med is, as the OP says.

Every so often I buy 50-100 of the common fleet science doff packs- which give you a white doff of either the science or medical profession. In practice, this results in a medical doff about 10% of the time. It is truly random, but there are far fewer medicals in the reward table.

So instead of making one random roll to pick a doff, I'd propose having these dual-type packs make two rolls: first a 50/50 roll to determine if the doff will be sci or med (or ops or eng, or tac or sec), then roll for a random doff of that type.

This won't completely solve the problem, but it wouldn't be too difficult to implement, and it would make me hate myself less for wasting so many credits on science doffs.

I agree with this idea. It will fix more than just the SB issue.

boootz · May 2013

You can get whites pretty easily, grind down rarer doffs and do the recruitment doff missions.

If everyone in your clan did this it would go quickly.

eristhevorta · May 2013

Don't forget Operations duffs, they are usually more expensive than tactial ones, it usually goes like this: Medical, Security, Operations & Refugees, Engineering & Tactical, Science, Civilians (except Refugees).

And yes, Boootz is right. If everyone cunsequently did the academy assignments as soon as the cooldown is gone (twice a week at least) and if green botanists and other useless green duffs would be broken down into whites (and unused fleet credits used for 500 FC per white duff), there would not be such a big demand anymore for white duffs.

bootyboots · May 2013

boootz wrote: »

You can get whites pretty easily, grind down rarer doffs and do the recruitment doff missions.

If everyone in your clan did this it would go quickly.

whites are easy to get yes, but not 90 medical/security whites, it takes over a 1000 doffs just to get those 90

if! the starbase assignments were properly balanced, then doffs would be no problem at all for any fleet of any size.

jam3s1701 · May 2013

There is a much better solution to this you know. .

1, mail yourself your spare ones =makes room for more
2, dicuss within your fleet who has what spare to contribute and then split the work. .

Or

1, USE what you need then SELL what you don't want then buy what you do
2, run recruitment missions on all toons and you get spare officers

To be honest this isn't going to get fixed any time soon so you have to find work rounds

sussethrai · May 2013

jam3s1701 wrote: »

There is a much better solution to this you know. .

1, mail yourself your spare ones =makes room for more

Hmmm -- already have 2 or 300 officers in the 'transporter buffer'. How many more do you suggest I leave in limbo?

jam3s1701 wrote: »

2, dicuss within your fleet who has what spare to contribute and then split the work.

All the fleeties are already contributing what they can. It doesn't change the drop percentages.[

jam3s1701 wrote: »

Or

1, USE what you need then SELL what you don't want then buy what you do

Suuure... I'll just sell how many sci doffs to be able to buy 1 med doff? It's currently about a 10:1 ratio

jam3s1701 wrote: »

2, run recruitment missions on all toons and you get spare officers

I run all the recruitment missions on all my toons, and STILL end up with maybe 40 or 50 random doffs every week. Most of them are superfluous to needs.

jam3s1701 wrote: »

To be honest this isn't going to get fixed any time soon so you have to find work rounds

It still is an issue that many players would like to see addressed, so we will continue to be squeaky wheels.

bootyboots · May 2013

sussethrai wrote: »

Hmmm -- already have 2 or 300 officers in the 'transporter buffer'. How many more do you suggest I leave in limbo?
All the fleeties are already contributing what they can. It doesn't change the drop percentages.[
Suuure... I'll just sell how many sci doffs to be able to buy 1 med doff? It's currently about a 10:1 ratio
I run all the recruitment missions on all my toons, and STILL end up with maybe 40 or 50 random doffs every week. Most of them are superfluous to needs.

It still is an issue that many players would like to see addressed, so we will continue to be squeaky wheels.

thank you for replying to that as you did.

Either he is profiting from the supply of doffs or is naive about the situation.

I know of at least 1 player that counted and had over 100k common science doffs several weeks ago, I know I have over 10k myself. players like us could bottom out the science doff market totally if we chose to, but don't because 1. its not worth our time, 2. we ware hoping that this problem will be corrected as it should have been months ago.

Anyone that is dismissing this issue has no real interest in starbases or their fleet has not progressed far.

450+ member fleets are being slowed down on doffs, and it will only get worse as demand increases and prices raise.

Cryptic you are killing your own creation with this. Self-sacrificing players are spending way too much time openning doff packs instead of actually enjoying the game

this is the heart of targ, romulan ale thing all over, except no fleet can avoid it

bareel · May 2013

Alternately just let the starbase sell white Science boxes and white Medical boxes. Same for the other two.

martin1970giesen · May 2013

iskandus wrote: »

I understand your concerns. From my point of view, as a provider of Security and Medical common doff on the exchange, this trade is one of the most lucrative for my treasury. But let me explain why they are so expensive - because they are rare. When I source common doff, they typically come from exchange of uncommon doff into 3 common doff. For every 100 common doff I obtain, I estimate only 10-15% of those are either Security or Medical. Because the prices of these two are so high, I exclusively set them aside for the exchange while the other common doff become contribution to my fleet and/or candidates for Officer Exchange program with Bajoran, Cardassian, Karemman and Paradan authorities. Occasionally, I will also get some refugees.

But more importantly, the price is being decided by the markets. I generally sell those doff between 70-100K per doff, which is very lucrative. If there is no demand for these doff, the price will fall. But the truth is, they are sold very quickly, even when a biochemist is going for 85K - it's snatched up within a few minutes. I tend to provide those at or near the best market price so they sell quickly.

My suggestion is if your fleet is small, you should recruit more new members and some of them will either be more economically efficient or have more disposable EC. Or your fleet can be a little more organized in farming your own doff sources. It can be done. Another trick is if you have an unwanted or lowly priced rare or very rare doff, you can exchange those for lower tier doff all the way down to common level, they can yield quite a bit of doff.

They cost so much couse of the droprate from the fleet-base common science doffs, about 1 in 4 will be a medical. So yes Cryptic fix the drop-rate (will not happen) or make the projects ask for science/medicals (hope for this).

squigish · May 2013

A couple of days ago, borticus told me in TTS chat that this change is NOT going to be included in the LoR release, but it's still something they're thinking about/working on, possibly in conjunction with their next release in June.

Fleet Starbases creating Duty Officer exchange madness

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