klingons not pvping properly

lykum · May 2013

let's face it together murderballs are boring you klinks are the reason for it. you need to spend 80% time cloaked strategizing weak spots/waiting for stragglers. pvp is not exciting and it's because you are all

HONORLESS PIRANHA =P

mrgrocer56 · May 2013

This will turn out well.....

bitemepwe · May 2013

Is this the OP saying this or is he repeating the generic death cry of the feds...

Iether way my answer will be the same.

darkfader1988 · May 2013

bitemepwe wrote: »

Is this the OP saying this or is he repeating the generic death cry of the feds...

Iether way my answer will be the same.

BoP's are OP !!!

andoriansrus · May 2013

darkfader1988 wrote: »

BoP's are OP !!!

well they will be OP until LoR goes live then all you will really see out of PVP in fed side is the Romulan Warbirds because that's a back door way to get battle cloak in the federation NOT TO MENTION that the warbirds do not suffer from less shields and hull for their cloaking like the BoP's do

redsnake721 · May 2013

Well I expect that once Feds get Romulan Escourts with battle Cloak and Romulan Stealth Boffs and Doffs equiped they will get a taste of what the Feds have been having to deal with since day one and the QQ crying and screaming for Nerfs and how unfair it is and that all Romulans do is Alpha strike and cloak and run ect. will fill endless pages on the Forum. Should be quite entertaining.

dummyname · May 2013

We had a good fight with some klinks last night in which we were victorious by a margin of 15-14. It was a gritty, high adrenaline affair as the klinks employed guerrilla hit and run tactics and we feds corralled the wagons and focused on incoming fire until they ran. Eventually, each side found the weak link and began picking at them and in the end each side had their prey targeted as the score read 14-14, and both victims were going down. We managed to get flypaper and disruption on our prey and we punched through his hull just as our vulnerable players shields gave way and large chunks of hull began to melt. GG's all around!

virusdancer · May 2013

But the fresh to cloaking F-Roms...well...c'mon, it's going to be funny. There's already been complaints that Battle Cloak is bugged from folks dying to torp spreads without a clue as to why...

warlordsob · May 2013

lykum wrote: »

let's face it together murderballs are boring you klinks are the reason for it. you need to spend 80% time cloaked strategizing weak spots/waiting for stragglers. pvp is not exciting and it's because you are all

HONORLESS PIRANHA =P

u all must of missed RZR...

Unknown · May 2013

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radkip · May 2013

What are you talking about, I love FvK space. Sending those dogs running back to Qonos is fun.

...when I'm paired up with people who actually know what they're doing, that is...

errab · May 2013

lykum wrote: »

let's face it together murderballs are boring you klinks are the reason for it. you need to spend 80% time cloaked strategizing weak spots/waiting for stragglers. pvp is not exciting and it's because you are all

HONORLESS PIRANHA =P

I have not done much PVP outside of my Fleet and Friends for quite some time so I might be out of the loop when it comes to open PVP.

So tell me do Fed players still cluster together and refuse to meet at mid map there by forcing the KDF team to travel over to them to do battle only to be accused of spawn camping once the Feds get wiped out?

bitemepwe · May 2013

Who will be QQing? Most likely anyone playing an Alt for the firstime.
I dont see any old school klinks complaining.

Unknown · May 2013

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zarathos1978 · May 2013

"teams of rogues are no fun to fight"

Because it's true. Regular cloak was pretty funny. Ambushes and all those things, but after ambush Klinks had to stay and fight. Now it's endless decloak, cloak, decloak, cloak. BC is not that hard to counter but countering it is not funny. And then there are some "epic" fights at Ker'rat with Feds trying to kill such de/recloacker and him doing nothing more the shooting a torp or setting mines and speeding away only to return when all his counters are reset.

Fun like hell - right.

I do not care all that much about rommies and their cloak. I stay at low level and all I encounter are Klinks with regular cloak. But all those Feds that are not at FvK because they do not like fighting rogues will go away from FvF too. BC on Fed side will hurt PvP even more then Klink spam did.

chairmanmeowmix · May 2013

lykum wrote: »

let's face it together murderballs are boring you klinks are the reason for it. you need to spend 80% time cloaked strategizing weak spots/waiting for stragglers. pvp is not exciting and it's because you are all

HONORLESS PIRANHA =P

I agree that PVP is pretty weak in this game. First thing that comes to mind is Kerrat and the spawn camp of doom regardless of which side is doing it. Still, this also exists in other games. I remember all the gate campers in Eve some years ago. Hopefully the Devs will offer a good revamp of the entire system and spice things up a lil.

However, I'm sure you're joking... KDF shouldn't use cloak or what? If you really think that, then you must've bumped your head. One should use all the tools available. U-boats during WW1 and WW2 "hunted" unseen either alone or in their wolfpacks. I think each faction should have their strengths and weaknesses. Why make everything the same or equal? That certainly wouldn't be canon. Maybe we should do the honorable thing and line up, come to a halt, and fire volleys at close, stationary targets Revolutionary War style in order to keep the Feds happy?

Moreover, I'm also opposed to the cross-faction console packs. So, nyeh! :cool:

virusdancer · May 2013

bitemepwe wrote: »

Who will be QQing? Most likely anyone playing an Alt for the firstime.
I dont see any old school klinks complaining.

I'm picturing the fresh F-Roms with that month plus of Rep grind...

bitemepwe · May 2013

The Joy is in the combat, not its outcome.

Ive had many fun times being squashed by a better team.

bitemepwe · May 2013

virusdancer wrote: »

I'm picturing the fresh F-Roms with that month plus of Rep grind...

The OP is right about one thing, somebody will cry about it.

Unknown · May 2013

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radkip · May 2013

Radkip, KDF gets bad pugs too, and I have yet to have a "FUN" match where it's all one side or the other-a 15-1 or 15-0 stomp is BORING regardless which side (mine, or mine opponent's) is pulling the "zero".

a GOOD match ends up in the range of 12-15 to 14-15. "Epic" is 14-15 that takes hours and taxes your creativity, teamwork, knowledge of the game, and skills. "epic" is more likely with Cloakers than without, so like I said, I'm not worried about FedRoms with their BC's, they die like everyone else.

I'm aware. :P

Most FvK space battles I'm in that AREN'T 15-0 stomps either way (which, I'd say is about 70% of them) range from 15-6 to 15-13. Those I'll agree are definitely fun.

There's something about it though, turning a cloaker's alpha strike against them, killing them before they can escape and get their cloak back on, that I just enjoy too damn much.

crusty8mac · May 2013

bitemepwe wrote: »

Who will be QQing? Most likely anyone playing an Alt for the firstime.
I dont see any old school klinks complaining.

You keep making too much sense.

My rom/rem will be KDF. The only thing I'll weep about is Hale with a battle cloak. Not looking forward to that.

naevius · May 2013

patrickngo wrote: »

...and all of this will be old hat, and instead of weeping "NERF THIS x" we'll see people developing actual TACTICS and, instead of Lobbying the Devs, actually LEARNING TO PLAY.

If only that had ever happened, in any game ever.

I believe they slowed down the ball in Pong because people complained it moved too fast.

shookyang · May 2013

patrickngo wrote: »

Quick primer for you:

Cloak: you're hidden until you de-cloak, you can't re-cloak until you're safely out of combat.
Battle-Cloak: You're hidden until you de-cloak, you then have to wait for the timer to cool down.
Enhanced Battle Cloak: you can pop a few minor abilities, fire torpedoes, and drop mines while cloaked, to use energy weapons you have to de-cloak.

In all three cases, while cloaked, you have no shields.

In "Cloak" and "Battle Cloak" you get a small boost to your speed, you're unable to fire weapons, some abilities like FOMM don't work/can't be primed up, and none of your sci skills will work including hazards.

In "Enhanced" you can toss a heal to a teammate, share APD, etc. with a 3 second decloak/cooldown/automatic re-cloak.

In ALL cases, mines see and attack you, and hit bare hull while cloaked, in the case of a BC or EBC, if the other guy's fired a torp while you're exposed, it's going to hit your bare hull unless you're magically able to evade it long enough-which usually doesn't happen except in cases of High Yeild versions whose range limitations can be reached.

Some corrections:
1) While it is true that Cloak does not have shields while activated, if you are forced out of it by enemy fire or mines, your shields will instantly pop up and any attacks will hit the shields, not hull. I have tested this, sitting within detectible range of a ship and let them fire on me fully buffed. Everything hit my shields and I still had full hull.

2) Cloak does not give a boost to speed or turn rate. Only Battle Cloak and Enhanced Battle Cloak.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Cloak
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Battle_Cloak
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Enhanced_Battle_Cloak

panserbjorne39 · May 2013

errab wrote: »

I have not done much PVP outside of my Fleet and Friends for quite some time so I might be out of the loop when it comes to open PVP.

So tell me do Fed players still cluster together and refuse to meet at mid map there by forcing the KDF team to travel over to them to do battle only to be accused of spawn camping once the Feds get wiped out?

Regardless of what anyone says, spawn camping is a choice. And a bad one that hurts fvk pvp. And the impression I get is that people think it's funny.,, Keep it up and have no one to fight.
I can only speak for myself but lately I've been coming in with only one or two other team mates evethough the queue shows 5v5. So I have a choice: either wait and hope the rest of my teams spawns in so we can head in toegether or fly solo into certain death. Which would you choose? I have no problem losing. Every loss is a learning experience. I have no problem with cloaks, battle cloaks, or any other semi cannon/cannon abilities. I think they make the game more interesting and fun. But when they're used to constantly run and hide or delay an otherwise quick match its not fun for anyone.
There has been many matches where KDF is losing and what do they do? Cloak and go sulk in the corner until one of their less butthurt teammates puts himself on the chopping block so we can get on with our lives.

bitemepwe · May 2013

crusty8mac wrote: »

You keep making too much sense.

My rom/rem will be KDF. The only thing I'll weep about is Hale with a battle cloak. Not looking forward to that.

Lol. I can sense him smiling even now.......

bitemepwe · May 2013

naevius wrote: »

If only that had ever happened, in any game ever.

I believe they slowed down the ball in Pong because people complained it moved too fast.

Nah. Leftside player had a bigger paddle. It was completely OP.

travelingmaster · May 2013

patrickngo wrote: »

Zarathos, I run KDF at low level (i actually delete toons to level new ones from time to time!), and the current starting ship has...

(wait for it...)

BattleCloak. That's right, it's a Bird of Prey.

so I don't know, but I think you're conflating "Battlecloak" with "Enhanced Battle Cloak" (which is only available on the B'rel Retrofit and B'rel Fleet Retrofit).

Quick primer for you:

Cloak: you're hidden until you de-cloak, you can't re-cloak until you're safely out of combat.
Battle-Cloak: You're hidden until you de-cloak, you then have to wait for the timer to cool down.
Enhanced Battle Cloak: you can pop a few minor abilities, fire torpedoes, and drop mines while cloaked, to use energy weapons you have to de-cloak.

In all three cases, while cloaked, you have no shields.

In "Cloak" and "Battle Cloak" you get a small boost to your speed, you're unable to fire weapons, some abilities like FOMM don't work/can't be primed up, and none of your sci skills will work including hazards.

In "Enhanced" you can toss a heal to a teammate, share APD, etc. with a 3 second decloak/cooldown/automatic re-cloak.

In ALL cases, mines see and attack you, and hit bare hull while cloaked, in the case of a BC or EBC, if the other guy's fired a torp while you're exposed, it's going to hit your bare hull unless you're magically able to evade it long enough-which usually doesn't happen except in cases of High Yeild versions whose range limitations can be reached.

ALL cloaks can be stripped using some pretty bog standard science skills, cloakers also end up de-cloaked in EWP clouds and similar, with big boosts to the damage the cloaker suffers as they take the initial 'hits' on bare hull.

Pets: Danubes will see/tractor a BoP-even one equipped with Enhanced BC, and keep it from re-cloaking even with APO 'on'. This is one of the major selling points of the Vesta class 3-pack, but it was first discovered when the only Fed carriers were Caitan and Armitage.

Pets will follow you and give your position away while cloaked.

even with EBC, even if they can't fire because you ARE cloaked (this is one of the main ways to track Donatra in Khitomer space for you PvE types.)

Trade-offs: as a BoP user, I have approximately one pass before I'm toast against 90% of Federation ships that are piloted by competent opposition. IF I don't get you in one pass, I have to run-I don't have the hull or shields to do anything but, and I usually have about 15-20 seconds of exposure before I CAN re-cloak, which could well be suicide if you pop a torp spread on me before I do, or while I'm transitioning. I'm doing this with fewer weapons powered by fewer consoles on a ship with less of everything, and if I TRIBBLE up my run (miss that your RSP, EPtS, etc. are off cooldown and ready to go) that's a run that's wasted, usually followed by a popped BoP.

all this means, if I kill you in Ker'rat or an Arena, or even C&H, I had to work for it.

Unless...unless you're a compleat incompetent or running a set of automation scripts that can't handle an interruption. in THAT case, I've got you cold because to MAKE that attack run, I have to actually OBSERVE you for a while.

Thank you for explaining just what a BoP pilot has to face. It's not as simple as 'decloak and pewpew', because BoPs are weaker and less crunchy than escorts/raptors/destroyers. We have to time things precisely, which isn't always easy against skilled players. I've even attacked ships that only had their fleet shield damage reduction buffs on, and the attacks have been shrugged off somehow. Still haven't figured out how they manage it. Maybe they're popping a buff just in time or something. Things can go from good to bad really quickly, and most smart PvPers will carry some method of disabling/delaying the re-cloak cycle.

When LoR comes out, we KDF will be able to respond. We will adapt to the change, and start blowing up fools who try to battlecloak while still being fired on. I plan to re-spec my tactical BoP pilot to give him skillpoints into boosting tractor beams and the like, because I carry TB2 on my BoP. It makes a huge difference, especially against escorts. Carrying a strong tractor beam is a good way to delay cloaking, because they have to get outside of 5km to activate the cloak while the TB is still on them. There are half-a-dozen other ways to decloak/delay cloak. Some KDF players in Ker'rat might pick up the habit of running snoopers to decloak Fed-Roms (science officers flying BoPs or science ships, carrying CPB, tractor beams, warp plasma, and other skills that can be used to combat cloakers).

bitemepwe · May 2013

panserbjorne39 wrote: »

Regardless of what anyone says, spawn camping is a choice. And a bad one that hurts fvk pvp. And the impression I get is that people think it's funny.,, Keep it up and have no one to fight.
I can only speak for myself but lately I've been coming in with only one or two other team mates evethough the queue shows 5v5. So I have a choice: either wait and hope the rest of my teams spawns in so we can head in toegether or fly solo into certain death. Which would you choose? I have no problem losing. Every loss is a learning experience. I have no problem with cloaks, battle cloaks, or any other semi cannon/cannon abilities. I think they make the game more interesting and fun. But when they're used to constantly run and hide or delay an otherwise quick match its not fun for anyone.
There has been many matches where KDF is losing and what do they do? Cloak and go sulk in the corner until one of their less butthurt teammates puts himself on the chopping block so we can get on with our lives.

Move away from the spawn point.
Btw, if those klinks ran and hid they are not klingons.
You sound a little angry. So what happens when us evil KDF dont go run and hide?

travelingmaster · May 2013

bitemepwe wrote: »

Move away from the spawn point.
Btw, if those klinks ran and hid they are not klingons.
You sound a little angry. So what happens when us evil KDF dont go run and hide?

Also, spawncamping is not restricted to KDF. In Ker'rat, I suspect the Feddies are responsible for about 60-70% of the total spawncamping that's done. A big reason for this is the idiotic 'everyone respawns on the KDF spawnpoint at reset', which almost always results in at least a short-term spawncamp. It's annoying as hell, and something that's needed to be fixed for a long time.

But yeah, Feddies will spawncamp if given the opportunity. Most of the time they can't really hack it against equal or greater odds, and get blasted to pieces when reinforcements arrive to even things up.

deleroux · May 2013

I love all the Feddie replies about how 'once LoR hits, Klinks will get a taste of their own medicine!' As if Klinks don't already know exactly what it's like to fight against stealth.

klingons not pvping properly

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