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All-In tournament suggestion
arctos1717
Member Posts: 37 Arc User
How about we all talk about organizing a tournament with teams that have to have all three types of captains in the team of five?
That would mean, no more than two of each, 'cos this combination of 3xSci + 2xTac has become so boring and predictable. Teams I have been on are running it also, not to think that I'm suggesting it for other reasons.
Let's give a chance to engineering captains to take their part also.
That would mean, no more than two of each, 'cos this combination of 3xSci + 2xTac has become so boring and predictable. Teams I have been on are running it also, not to think that I'm suggesting it for other reasons.
Let's give a chance to engineering captains to take their part also.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by arctos1717 on
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For example, this "No BS" tournament is great regarding rules, I would just add this 2+2+1 rule and that's it, give some love to engies
But in all serious, rules forbidding broken or overpowered stuff is fine. Rules to make you take something worthless or underpowered? I think that's a mistake that would end up spreading bad habits. Count me out on that one.
Yes jorf i spend three years grooming my JS. Invested time to fully equip it with doffs, rep grind, fought hundreds of stfs where it confused tac cubes like no ones business.
The community has been asking for three yers straight to get a retrain token so it can switch out that pecksy JS and see the light of HE or TB. Unfortunately that is not an option. The game was designed from day one around JS...
Your comparison is spot on. ...troll on
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
...if cleanses were reduced as well.
Full Strip and Full Cleanse...just bad mechanics.
Except for adding silly rules against ewp, tif, danubes, carriers, or whatever what is "disliked" in the game in pvp.
Soon we will have, rules against too many weapons or, no disruptors, polarons, hybrid weapon types, phasers plasma....
The game gives tools to use, removing them from the pvp arena, is like saying "we can't overcome that! Let's remove them so we dont need to try even!"
The only thing i can somewhat agree on is the drain-spam, that takes no one nowhere usually.
But that's Y and the OP's talking about X...Careers.
While there's no Career I'd rather duel or PUG with, once there's an organization involved - whether 2v2 or 5v5...there's just no synergy there. The Eng Career is a PVE career...which unfortunately also suffers from a lack of PVE that even requires that Career. It's a Career for another game...some game out there...beyond the final frontier.
then limit the amount of buffs a guy can have on himself at any one time. make it 5 total, with the oldest being replaced by the newest when you cast it.
that way you have to actually think "do i want to live for the next for seconds or kill for the next few seconds" rather than "i think ill be unkillable while killing!"
if you were sub'd by 3 sci's the entire match id consider that to be a good thing. it means they obviously were threatened enough by you to make sure you couldnt do anything, sure its fustrating, but every hit you take is a hit the team doesnt have to worry about.
and its weird how youre calling it the "go to" ability consider it hasnt really changed at all since it was introduced to the game over 3 years ago, the entire meta of the game has changed to be more about super stacking resists/heals/buffs which has made NOT having the lowly sci captain on hand, make matches even more impossible to finish. id say the insane power creep is "whats taking all the fun out of matches" not the sub nuk.
also, its bad attitude to just sit at spawn like that. like i said, sure its fustrating, but did you even try communicating with your team? how about maybe swapping some bridge officers for one with a science team (since it clears the sub nuk time effect) so you can clear yourself?
also maybe not popping all the buffs and boosts and whatnot which screams- "pick me" to the science guys? stagger the buffs? stagger the heals?
adapt.
Do you even Science Bro?
If a person can't cleanse all their debuffs...they'll be sporting debuffs offsetting the buffs. Much like more SNBs would have to be used to strip...more cleanses would have to be used to cleanse.
Rather than it being the Yo-Yo unkillable/loldead...it would be more of a middle ground.
but then you run into the issue of being hit with too many debuffs for your limited clearing skills. since there is a very limited number of cleanses that are "jack of all trades" cleanses.
attack pattern beta and delta both apply each time you hit the target/are hit by the target, i dont think there is a stack limit on them, sure they only last a few seconds, but as quickly as a single target can be hit by multiple offenders with just those 2 skills alone, a tac team wouldnt be able to clear enough (if its limited) to save them selves.
dont get me wrong, im not disagreeing that something needs to be done, but the way the game works would dictate that the ENTIRE way the game works would need to be redone just for something as relatively simple as limited cleanses.
look at the issues with hazzard emitters and eject warp plasma. they both have constant applications and cleanses yet its possible to time them so that you constantly get hit by both alternating effectively making the cleanse a waste.
which is why i had suggested limiting the amount of buffs/debuffs a single target can get hit with. kinda like that did with the old target subsystems, make it so only the strongest buff/debuff applies.
-shrugs- but what do i know... im just a paperboy :P
Do you even Science Bro?
Well, to be honest - I'd rather see a buff/debuff dance than a cleansing/stripping dance.
Somebody hits somebody with a damage resistance debuff...then they counter that with a damage resistance buff. Somebody buffs with a damage resistance buff, rather than strip that - they hit them with a damage resistance debuff.
This is the blurb when creating a character when you hover over Engineering.
Survivability, support generators, and controlling the paths of enemy advance with fieldworks. The Engineering Officer can withstand the most damage by improving the performance of their own personal shields, while supporting his away team with power generators or by bottlenecking the enemy's advance with defensive minefields. The Engineer's own combat effectiveness is improved by modifications to their firearms or support fire from fabricated turrets and drones.
Two things...
1) Wouldn't it be awesome if the Engineer worked like that in space, perhaps?
2) Where's the mention of what the Engineer is like in space?
So, sarcasm aside your opinion is "I want to play my engineer that I've spent a lot of effort on, but I don't want to be at a disadvantage so let's make the other side to take an engineer too!"
That's just terrible.
Ironic, considering you've make it your life's work to troll me
SpankS
@LIVIN
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
the milk and cookies?
so basically make it so only the engineer can use "deployables" in space? hmmm... i like that, cuts down on the spam and gives engys something to do.... -ponders-
Do you even Science Bro?
It would be like a hockey team saying... well seeing as every other team in this league sucks... we will just put one one defense man on the ice and put an extra centerman out there to setup out wingers.
I'm sorry but the 3 sci per team is sort of TRIBBLE at this point. Yes its optimal I agree... because right now another Sub nuke is just that fantastic. Still it feels wrong.. .just like having multiple copies of warp pee out there... or being amsed doesn't seem right.
I think all tourneys should state simply all teams must include min 1 each captain type.
Anyone that really thinks they have some fantastic logical argument against such a rule are really just saying... my team doesn't have an engi player or a good one anyway.
Why would you love to play it when its UP?
Logic!!!
If you can't see how trying to force teams to take underpowered setups to put them on more even footing against teams that refuse to adapt will hurt the community you're in denial and I doubt I can help you.
I have a feeling nothing anyone says will get through -- you've tied yourself to an emotional argument. Your reasoning of "it just doesn't feel right" is something I expect to hear from role players, not PvPers, and the bad hockey analogy doesn't help either.
I love the little ad hominem at the end by the way. "Everyone who disagrees with me is a bad engineer." Do you really think that's something Pandas would have the slightest worry about? Do you think you're a better engineer than myself or Bieber?
In about a week...yeah...will be interesting.
Crippling Fire:
2.4 accuracy debuff inflicted with critical hits. Can three stack.
Last Ditch Effort:
Doubles damage resistance outgoing attacks give while under GDF (don't forget it's changing). Can three stack.
EPS Manifold Efficiency:
EPtX abilities provide a moderate power boost to all subsystems.
Batteries provide a large power boost to all subsystems.
Duration of boosts buffed by Batteries skill.
Grace Under Fire:
If you take 20%+ hull within 5 seconds, it resets the CD on Miracle Worker. 90s CD.
Conservation of Energy:
+10% to exotic damage when hit by energy damage. Can three stack.
Photonic Capacitor:
Using shield heals reduces CD for Photonic Fleet by 15s.
...Reputation...
T2 Choices:
Enhanced Shield Penetration - directed energy ignores 2.5% of shields
Fortified Hull - +5% hull
T4 Choices:
Aux Power Config Def - 20% of Aux buffs Shield Performance, Structural Integrity, Hull Plating
Aux Power Config Off - 20% of Aux buffs Weapon Training, Energy Weapons, Projectile Weapons
That's not taking into account the various changes to skill calculations, abilities, etc, etc, etc.
I was in Ker'rat (finally finding the 50 Ker'rat on that damn list) and a Fed showed up while I was on my K-Rom. So I killed him. He said that it was Tribble and there was enough farming for both of us. I had to log out...I got a headache from the /facepalm.
I honestly don't think enough people are trying to test PvP over on Tribble...
Granted, I'm not convinced that a 5 sci captain team is still as strong as in the past - in fact it might even be weaker than 4/1 or 3/2 sci/tac teams at the moment, but somehow this feels as if it's just setting the stage for 4/1 sci/tac teams with 4 carriers, one battlecloaking tac and massive pet and console spam or similar. Afterall, why force teams to take a non-carrier ship? (Replace that with any setup that you feel is strong but not played because it's inherently stupid.)
On the other hand, why do I care? This game has much bigger problems than engineers being problematic and in two weeks everyone will be fully cloaked anyway.
"Why force teams to have a tac" = jorf says so, transcendental voice of reason n all. It just is that much sensical, we all fail to comprehend the meta.
"forcing teams to have an engineer" somebody else says so, Jorf doesn't like it, hence it can only be illogical and wrong
as for the carriers, how does it make sense to declare all the strongest carrier pets SPAM and UNfun. Its just as much forcing pilots to make suboptimal choices. After multiple balance passes Danoobs and Siphon Drones are WAD. Again Jorf says so s.a.
Telling escorts not to bring DHC (their strongest career specific choice) now that would be siliy...
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I never claimed to be a better engi then you jorf... escort jock yes... engi player no. lol
If its ok to not include an min engi rule on a team... why then are we limiting any skill at all. We limit things almost completely because we find them to be broken. Are they broken in that they are bugged ? Quite often that is NOT the case, although it does sometimes apply. Often we create rules against consoles or skills because frankly there use is annoying.
Well I will say it right now teams with 3+ sci members are annoying.
I could argue that a team with 5 copies of Gravity pulse is working as intended and you should simply adapt. I am even sure that you would do a very good job of adapting to such a cheese ball setup... however are you really going to argue that a rule against Gravity Pulse units or at least the allowed number of them would be an issue.
I'm sorry your logic of "forcing teams to adpot a sub optimal" is just pure hogwash and you know it. You simply don't feel you can afford to give up your second tac or your third nuke.
Honestly I hate teams with 2 sci 2 tac 1 engi almost more then 3 sci... I don't really enjoy 1+hr matches myself. Still to argue that a rule on captain types doesn't fit into the idea of creating rules for a turny at all... is just bs.
Very well stated Mancom. I would say I agree with you completely. Engi rules are no less valid then ship rules.
With a static 1.74:1 DPV (1.45:1 DPS) ratio compared to Arrays...there's an issue with DHCs compared to pretty much every weapon. The higher one is able to boost their damage, the greater that discrepancy between DHCs and other weapons becomes. Ratio stays the same, but the numbers represented by that ratio change.
For example:
1000 DPV Beam = 1740 DPV DHC (+740 DPV)
2000 DPV Beam = 3480 DPV DHC (+1480 DPV)
5000 DPV Beam = 8700 DPV DHC (+3700 DPV)
It's always 1:1.74 - but that difference just grows and grows the more one is able to buff their damage. And that's before taking into account the different drain mechanics.
I would say fixed ratios are silly.
I think PvP at this point is at it's "boring and predictable peak", don't really know how it could get worse than this (except cloaks everywhere). Plasma and Theta, pets, cloaks, subnukes, real fun, can't wait to come home from work and get into a PvP :P
My opinion is that Sci's and cruisers ruined PvP, there's no real fight just some TRIBBLE thrown around like we're playing Diablo or WoW
There's going to be plenty worse for folks to enjoy - even those that don't cloak.
Just look at the fun new consoles mixed in with the old - changes to abilities, skill effects, other gear, and all sorts of things.
Also, it's getting near time for the next lockbox, they also mentioned a Summer Event, there's going to be the episode replays, etc, etc, etc...going to be an interesting Summer.
Yep, come home from work...knock back a six pack or two...and PvP. /cough
Actually, I don't like any limit on captain types. If someone wants to take all sci and sacrifice burst while trying to coordinate five nukes, I say let them. Same thing if a team wants to try five alpha striking cloaked tacticals -- variety is good.
Despite the fact that I dislike the "max of three of a captain type" rule that is in vogue nowadays I'm not going to make too much of a fuss over it. Despite it hurting creativity and pigeonholing teams it hasn't crossed the threshold where you're forcing teams to actively gimp themselves -- the strong bread and butter setups are still possible.
Again, there's a big difference between banning something that is widely deemed to be overpowered and forcing people to take things that are under-powered. It's like banning something like tric mines if they are one shotting people vs. mandating that everyone needs to take a mk 1 plasma single cannon.
As far as pets go, I have a feeling we might be stuck with danoobs, but if you think Cryptic isn't going to eventually get around to properly balancing something as extreme as siphon drones you're kidding yourself.
Of course it would be silly, but that doesn't have to do with anything. That being said there are some decent vaping builds that only use a single DHC :P
Technically, you did claim that we don't have any good engineers.
Which shouldn't be a factor. Control is supposed to be annoying after all, and other people have funny ideas like "escorts are annoying" or "extends is annoying".
With two teams that are more or less equal, one team having a single moderately spec'd grav pulse will completely tip the balance.
Of course we could. The other team would have to take an engineer as well after all. Doesn't change the fact that trying to force teams to gimp themselves is bad.
Again, what does or does not annoy you shouldn't be a factor.