I understand where you folks are coming from, but I think sometimes you sink to the other side's level.
I didn't hate the first JJ film. I've said before on these boards that I put it about in the middle of the pack of Star Trek films. Not as good as some, but a lot better than others. This second one I didn't enjoy as much. As I've said before, mostly because I felt like JJ had managed to give himself a good setup at the end of the first one. He had a great cast, he had a huge budget, and he had basically no continuity to tie him down. The second movie disappointed me because instead of going off and doing something new, he made what felt to me like a retread of old territory.
That said, I understand where you're coming from because I'm primarily a TOS fan. And I've spent years listening to folks ridicule it as being cheesy, mock Shatner's acting, poke fun at the sets and costumes and special effects. I have a lot of friends who think TNG was the pinnacle of Star Trek, and I'd probably rank it fourth in terms of my favorites. But I don't think it helps the situation for me to try to mock TNG to them, or even to spend inordinate amounts of my time trying to defend everything about TOS (I mean, have you seen much of the Third Season? Pretty indefensible).
At a certain point, we have to just sort of agree to live and let live. You may like TNG or DS9 or even Enterprise the best, I prefer TOS. You might love one or both of the Abrams movies and think they're the best Star Trek films, I may prefer TWOK and Undiscovered Country, or I might be a TNG fan and think First Contact is the best ever. We can all be good Star Trek fans and just have our preferences as to what part(s) of the franchise we prefer...or don't like...and be able to voice those thoughts without it turning into a Klingon blood feud. From either side.
You're absolutely right. It just gets on my nerves when people bash something because it's "not Star Trek". I know I shouldn't let it bother me, and am making an effort to not react to it anymore.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
FFS JJ or not these production/art people have no idea of keeping a design fresh but honoring previous ship design and tradition.
I mean I know the Narada is A mining vessel and Romulan because someone in the movie said -No way I would have picked Hellraisers flagship as your standard Romulan Mining vessel from visuals (oh wait its got borg bits because the non canon prequel comic tried to pour sand in this plot hole)
But the designers passed as it was STUPID BIG and blows up planets
Now the villians ship is STUPID BIG for a federation vessel and its BLACK in case the audience gets confused.
JJ-verse is great Sci-Fi... It may even be "Trek" on certain levels, but please realize that It's not the STO universe.
I know alot of people will say "Canon went out the window when <various examples>", and they would be right, but since this is the Prime universe, we should attempt to stick as close to canon as possible, within the parameters given at current point.
Also remember, that since the JJ-verse is currently unexplored country, it's better grounds for a new MMO than STO was (more untold stories than prime universe) and as such may get it's own MMO game some day.
For that and for loads of other reasons, I'd have to say: I'd rather have a kick in the crown jewels.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
This ship challenged the Dervish for ugliest ship award and brought much smack down. Let us hope there are no future contenders and this ship can retire to that dark corner in our minds.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Heir to the high pony of holier than thou, Guardian of the Sacred Mallet of Thwarting, and giver of Baptismal raspberries since 02/02/2010
ugh isn't the mirror universe ships from an alt timeline the movie isn;t out yet but my understanding is this ship is like 1700 meters in length . i was thinking it could make a great addition to game as new dreadnought design . also nero and the narada are from st online timeline hello hobus star super nova destroyed romulus its why romuleans had to settle on new planets.
I think the ship in question is hideous and should be resigned to the scrap pile and left there to rot in the radiation of the sun.
With that said i wouldnt mind JJTrek ships ingame but the biggest issue is the whole parallel universe yadda yadda yadda khans magic blood etc etc etc.
If Jar jar Abrams wouldve made a sequel something to erase the bad taste of nemisis then it wouldve been ok but what he has done is made a mockery of the franchise.
with THAT said i am glad that there is JJTrek because it introduces a new generation to star trek that otherwise wouldve ignored the older trek as "My Fathers trek".
So even though i do not like the new trek i am glad its around for the younger generation so that trek wont die that it will live on
JJ-verse is great Sci-Fi... It may even be "Trek" on certain levels, but please realize that It's not the STO universe.
I know alot of people will say "Canon went out the window when <various examples>", and they would be right, but since this is the Prime universe, we should attempt to stick as close to canon as possible, within the parameters given at current point.
Also remember, that since the JJ-verse is currently unexplored country, it's better grounds for a new MMO than STO was (more untold stories than prime universe) and as such may get it's own MMO game some day.
For that and for loads of other reasons, I'd have to say: I'd rather have a kick in the crown jewels.
Since Nero got his tattoo in Rura Penthe prison IN the past/alternate timeline, how then can it be part of the STO prime universe?
I think the ship in question is hideous and should be resigned to the scrap pile and left there to rot in the radiation of the sun.
With that said i wouldnt mind JJTrek ships ingame but the biggest issue is the whole parallel universe yadda yadda yadda khans magic blood etc etc etc.
If Jar jar Abrams wouldve made a sequel something to erase the bad taste of nemisis then it wouldve been ok but what he has done is made a mockery of the franchise.
with THAT said i am glad that there is JJTrek because it introduces a new generation to star trek that otherwise wouldve ignored the older trek as "My Fathers trek".
So even though i do not like the new trek i am glad its around for the younger generation so that trek wont die that it will live on
If it makes a mockery of the franchise, then why are you ok that the new generation of fans gravitate towards it? I mean combined with all that Twilight and True Blood they watch, certainly your hackles must be raised permanently?
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
So does he later get tattoo tears for all the kills he got on Vulcan at least?
(And apparently I got the ear thing mixed up with the tatt thing, but I did remember something happened to his appearance in prison. Least he didn't have kill someone with his tea cup like Riddick).
So does he later get tattoo tears for all the kills he got on Vulcan at least?
(And apparently I got the ear thing mixed up with the tatt thing, but I did remember something happened to his appearance in prison. Least he didn't have kill someone with his tea cup like Riddick).
Thats it! We could have Riddick as nero he was just as Romulan and he killed with a tea cup-I like it!:)
Since Nero got his tattoo in Rura Penthe prison IN the past/alternate timeline, how then can it be part of the STO prime universe?
Do you even know what you are asking? Cause I don't...
In fact, I never mentioned neither a Tattoo or Rura Penthe in my Post, so it seems to me that you (as usual) just try to debunk what I say.
You failed btw.
Also, If you havn't watched the movie itself, you really should'n comment.
Nero had the tattoo in the opening scenes, minutes after he emerged in the past.
Nero and his crew got the tattoos in the Countdown comic. It's a Romulan tradition to shave when grieving a loss, and draw on those marks. When they fade it's time to move on. Nero and his crew don't want to move on, so they went for the more permanent route.
As for including anything from JJ-verse in STO. Nah. Some of it is just reimagined TOS stuff, and a case can be made for it, but we can't have the original TOS stuff and the reimagined stuff side by side without raising some questions.
But especially no on the Vengeance. Cause it's butt-ugly and has bad fanscript written all over it. (Nuh-uh! My bad guy built a starfleet ship in total secrecy! And it's much bigger than all the other starfleet ships! And much more powerful! And it can go Warp 11! And when you gaze upon it, you feel a sense of awe. Because I say so, damnit! And he has spies and bombs everywhere! He's positively Magicavellian!)
Add to this the tried, overdone, anicent cliche of the Enterprise being the only ship around to deal with the big bad. :rolleyes:
These are the voyages ... of the Starship Yorktown! It's continuing mission, to rejoin the fleet in the Laurentian system ... I don't know, just doesn't seem to work in terms of dramatic tension.
If the Enteprise/Defiant/Voyager wasn't the only one to handle the dramatic events, you'd have a pretty short show.
Title Sequence...
Uhura: "Captain, we are receiving a distress call from Regula I. The USS Hard Rock Cafe is handling it."
Kirk: "Sweet, let's go have a beer."
...Roll Credits.
This is one of those tropes that you just have to go with on pretty much every level of fiction otherwise what's the excuse to have the book/tv show/movie/whatever at all?
The Red Matter stuff is not originally from the movie, it's from the "Countdown" comics.
Just like the Nero's tattoo, just like "The Vault" and some other stuff.
Since Nero got his tattoo in Rura Penthe prison IN the past/alternate timeline, how then can it be part of the STO prime universe?
Since all the Rura Penthe prison stuff was cut from the final theatrical version of the ST2009 film, obviously the crew did these themselves.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
It actually doesn't look that much different from the Envoy variant of the Galaxy with a type 4 hull texture. Same ugly, awkward angles and bizarre aesthetic.
I actually wouldn't mind an Abramsverse lockbox at some point, rewarding the JJprise for Fed players, the new D7 design for KDF, and a new T'Liss for Romulans. Lobi shuttle could be the Jellyfish. I know they'd have to negotiate some new contracts, but I'm sure JJ and co. would jump at the chance for more advertising.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Nero and his crew got the tattoos in the Countdown comic. It's a Romulan tradition to shave when grieving a loss, and draw on those marks. When they fade it's time to move on. Nero and his crew don't want to move on, so they went for the more permanent route.
That countdown comic was one of the worst written pieces I have ever read for trek. JarJars movie is a mess without it-so its used to explain how all the sillyness of that movie comes about and it makes it worse.
Still stunned im expected to swallow how Neros mining vessel became borg enhanced -Sorry writer/writers -we are not that stupid.
The newly created "Romulan" tatts for the dead-A long lived species that in day to day life-conform to similar conservative appearance use tattoos to express loss? I mean the Romulans embrace emotion as a culture and identity-they have to shave heads to express this? Why are not military members just continuously bald -given the frequency of death in war?
Oh and in the character creation area, you can use Nero's Face Tattoo as well.
hmm this red matter capacitor was in the prime timeline before the jjcrapverse alternative dimension, so really your scraping the barrel over some epeen TRIBBLE. as for the device itself, i frankly dont care about it and then the tattoo, anyone can come up with a tattoo design...
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I actually like the Enterprise from the 2009 movie. The only thing I didn't care for was the ultra bright white that seemed to comprise the entire interior of the ship.
Like the nacelles of the Vengeance but that's about it, but then again with one the one screenshot of it, it's kind of hard to really get a feel for the entire ship so there may be other design aspects that are okay.
hmm this red matter capacitor was in the prime timeline before the jjcrapverse alternative dimension, so really your scraping the barrel over some epeen TRIBBLE. as for the device itself, i frankly dont care about it and then the tattoo, anyone can come up with a tattoo design...
It's from the movie. The movie you all hate. It is a key element to that film. The film you all hate. I'm not scraping the barrel of anything. Elements of Star Trek 2009 already exist in this game.
Oh yeah, and the Countdown Comic? It's to introduce the movie. It's all part of the JJ Abrams Star Trek 2009 movie saga. None of this is separate. This is all part of the JJ Abrams stuff you all hate.
It's like you're saying "I HATE Jar Jar Binks! SOOOO much! But Boss Nass was the one who exiled him for being bombad, so hey, Gungans are alright."
Please. You take a stand and say that you wouldn't play this game if JJ Abrams Star Trek stuff were put in the game? That red matter device has been in since launch. You shouldn't be playing this game if you are going to make that statement.
I get that some of you don't like the movie. But this puffery and hatred? It's all just your own epeen TRIBBLE being smeared all over the forums. What a waste of your own time.
But especially no on the Vengeance. Cause it's butt-ugly and has bad fanscript written all over it. (Nuh-uh! My bad guy built a starfleet ship in total secrecy! And it's much bigger than all the other starfleet ships! And much more powerful! And it can go Warp 11! And when you gaze upon it, you feel a sense of awe. Because I say so, damnit! And he has spies and bombs everywhere! He's positively Magicavellian!)
Well when a Starfleet Admiral tells you to build something contrary to what some in the shipyard forums may think, chances are they build so they don't get reassigned to some backwater outpost on some crappy ice planet in the middle of nowhere.
Comments
You're absolutely right. It just gets on my nerves when people bash something because it's "not Star Trek". I know I shouldn't let it bother me, and am making an effort to not react to it anymore.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
FFS JJ or not these production/art people have no idea of keeping a design fresh but honoring previous ship design and tradition.
I mean I know the Narada is A mining vessel and Romulan because someone in the movie said -No way I would have picked Hellraisers flagship as your standard Romulan Mining vessel from visuals (oh wait its got borg bits because the non canon prequel comic tried to pour sand in this plot hole)
But the designers passed as it was STUPID BIG and blows up planets
Now the villians ship is STUPID BIG for a federation vessel and its BLACK in case the audience gets confused.
Please no to this in game.
JJ-verse is great Sci-Fi... It may even be "Trek" on certain levels, but please realize that It's not the STO universe.
I know alot of people will say "Canon went out the window when <various examples>", and they would be right, but since this is the Prime universe, we should attempt to stick as close to canon as possible, within the parameters given at current point.
Also remember, that since the JJ-verse is currently unexplored country, it's better grounds for a new MMO than STO was (more untold stories than prime universe) and as such may get it's own MMO game some day.
For that and for loads of other reasons, I'd have to say: I'd rather have a kick in the crown jewels.
Heir to the high pony of holier than thou, Guardian of the Sacred Mallet of Thwarting, and giver of Baptismal raspberries since 02/02/2010
Remember: we already HAVE stuff from JJ Trek in the game, it's simply a matter of how much.
My character Tsin'xing
With that said i wouldnt mind JJTrek ships ingame but the biggest issue is the whole parallel universe yadda yadda yadda khans magic blood etc etc etc.
If Jar jar Abrams wouldve made a sequel something to erase the bad taste of nemisis then it wouldve been ok but what he has done is made a mockery of the franchise.
with THAT said i am glad that there is JJTrek because it introduces a new generation to star trek that otherwise wouldve ignored the older trek as "My Fathers trek".
So even though i do not like the new trek i am glad its around for the younger generation so that trek wont die that it will live on
Since Nero got his tattoo in Rura Penthe prison IN the past/alternate timeline, how then can it be part of the STO prime universe?
If it makes a mockery of the franchise, then why are you ok that the new generation of fans gravitate towards it? I mean combined with all that Twilight and True Blood they watch, certainly your hackles must be raised permanently?
He tattooed himself and his crew before he went back in time. He already has them during his meeting with Captain Robau in ST09.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Are you sure? I thought like most cons, he got his tatts in prison?
This is what he looked like when we first saw him: http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/7/77/Nero%2C_2258.jpg
And we saw him get his tattoos in the Countdown comics, which took place entirely in 2387.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
So does he later get tattoo tears for all the kills he got on Vulcan at least?
(And apparently I got the ear thing mixed up with the tatt thing, but I did remember something happened to his appearance in prison. Least he didn't have kill someone with his tea cup like Riddick).
Thats it! We could have Riddick as nero he was just as Romulan and he killed with a tea cup-I like it!:)
Do you even know what you are asking? Cause I don't...
In fact, I never mentioned neither a Tattoo or Rura Penthe in my Post, so it seems to me that you (as usual) just try to debunk what I say.
You failed btw.
Also, If you havn't watched the movie itself, you really should'n comment.
Nero had the tattoo in the opening scenes, minutes after he emerged in the past.
Edit: And Since I already know that you will try to comment against that as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5BONJcookQ
Very visible at 5:53
As for including anything from JJ-verse in STO. Nah. Some of it is just reimagined TOS stuff, and a case can be made for it, but we can't have the original TOS stuff and the reimagined stuff side by side without raising some questions.
But especially no on the Vengeance. Cause it's butt-ugly and has bad fanscript written all over it. (Nuh-uh! My bad guy built a starfleet ship in total secrecy! And it's much bigger than all the other starfleet ships! And much more powerful! And it can go Warp 11! And when you gaze upon it, you feel a sense of awe. Because I say so, damnit! And he has spies and bombs everywhere! He's positively Magicavellian!)
Yes! I do. I bet you could figure it out if you re-read it? Go ahead. Give it a try!
I can't help it if you're so typically wrongheaded about Star Trek, JJ Abrams, and the whole shebang. That's on you my friend. That's all on you.
You think I haven't watched the movie? Really?
These are the voyages ... of the Starship Yorktown! It's continuing mission, to rejoin the fleet in the Laurentian system ... I don't know, just doesn't seem to work in terms of dramatic tension.
Title Sequence...
Uhura: "Captain, we are receiving a distress call from Regula I. The USS Hard Rock Cafe is handling it."
Kirk: "Sweet, let's go have a beer."
...Roll Credits.
This is one of those tropes that you just have to go with on pretty much every level of fiction otherwise what's the excuse to have the book/tv show/movie/whatever at all?
The Red Matter stuff is not originally from the movie, it's from the "Countdown" comics.
Just like the Nero's tattoo, just like "The Vault" and some other stuff.
Since all the Rura Penthe prison stuff was cut from the final theatrical version of the ST2009 film, obviously the crew did these themselves.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
They already had them in the scene when they shoot up the Kelvin so yes, they did it themselves...but before they fell through the wormhole.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
That countdown comic was one of the worst written pieces I have ever read for trek. JarJars movie is a mess without it-so its used to explain how all the sillyness of that movie comes about and it makes it worse.
Still stunned im expected to swallow how Neros mining vessel became borg enhanced -Sorry writer/writers -we are not that stupid.
The newly created "Romulan" tatts for the dead-A long lived species that in day to day life-conform to similar conservative appearance use tattoos to express loss? I mean the Romulans embrace emotion as a culture and identity-they have to shave heads to express this? Why are not military members just continuously bald -given the frequency of death in war?
hmm this red matter capacitor was in the prime timeline before the jjcrapverse alternative dimension, so really your scraping the barrel over some epeen TRIBBLE. as for the device itself, i frankly dont care about it and then the tattoo, anyone can come up with a tattoo design...
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Like the nacelles of the Vengeance but that's about it, but then again with one the one screenshot of it, it's kind of hard to really get a feel for the entire ship so there may be other design aspects that are okay.
It's from the movie. The movie you all hate. It is a key element to that film. The film you all hate. I'm not scraping the barrel of anything. Elements of Star Trek 2009 already exist in this game.
Oh yeah, and the Countdown Comic? It's to introduce the movie. It's all part of the JJ Abrams Star Trek 2009 movie saga. None of this is separate. This is all part of the JJ Abrams stuff you all hate.
It's like you're saying "I HATE Jar Jar Binks! SOOOO much! But Boss Nass was the one who exiled him for being bombad, so hey, Gungans are alright."
Please. You take a stand and say that you wouldn't play this game if JJ Abrams Star Trek stuff were put in the game? That red matter device has been in since launch. You shouldn't be playing this game if you are going to make that statement.
I get that some of you don't like the movie. But this puffery and hatred? It's all just your own epeen TRIBBLE being smeared all over the forums. What a waste of your own time.
Well when a Starfleet Admiral tells you to build something contrary to what some in the shipyard forums may think, chances are they build so they don't get reassigned to some backwater outpost on some crappy ice planet in the middle of nowhere.
Actually it looks like the Vengeance ambushes the Enterprise, since in the trailer its mentioned as approaching them.