Your point of view is the ONLY point of view. Got it. Devs will do what Devs will do; but I won't take anyone seriously who calls Thissler's targets "morons" for not expecting a cloaked attack [even though he has NO idea how skilled that player may have been] and anyone who even takes my SUGGESTION seriously, incompetent. You just insulted every poster on here including yourself.
Hahaha. . .if you're fighting Klingons and don't expect a cloaked attack, you ARE a moron. Or it's your first PvP match or something.
I still can't figure out if you're just stirring up sh*t because you're bored, or if you're really this obtuse.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
And OP, you're pretty much the only person whining about alpha strikes. This convinces me that this really IS about you having gotten blasted to scrap by a KDF player, and your ego is bruised.
Deny it all you want, I'm still gonna believe it. It's the same denial tactic you use when we repeatedly explain to you why your 'argument' is idiotic and wrong-headed.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
I think Alpha strikes could get very sickening when Romulans come if you can have superior subterfuge and superior operative on the same romulan boff x5 boffs. Though we can deal with that when it comes, the serious PvPers will volentarily stop using something considered very imbalanced example: graviton pulse.
However in the video shown if you were any decent player you'd notice most targets didn't have tactical team up, no emmergency power to shields running, not even rotate shield polarity. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if they were running aegis shields or something with 0 resists built in. Those alpha strike were nice, fast and congrats on getting it so well timed but against a proper tank (usually cruiser) it would get shaken of while the captain was napping.
I wasn't happy with the tric nerf but then they were getting very silly. I think a hard cap on just how high they can hit would have been a better idea than nerfing the spike, right now only my tactical can make good use of tric bombing and even then I might as well use DHCs and BO3 imo. Course people could have used tractor repulsors/pet spam/mines/evasive manuevers to solve the tric mine problem.
The biggest problem with the trico mines, was you couldn't even see them at one point. That was a massive PvE fleet event issue as well.
The KDF in kerrat were using it to bomb the warp in zone as well, plenty of times I've had a game reset, warp in and suddenly with no warning 'poof' ship goes up along with 5-6 others in one go.
That to me is the epitome of an 'I win' button.
Bird of Preys are made for hit and run Alpha strikes. And by far its not be done by hitting some buttons and the target blows. As said: There are so many counters, evasive, Reverse shields, tactitcal team, AP Omega or polarize hull, if you have been tractored and and and ...
My personal experience is, that the most ignorant palyers are the most complaining about getting insta-killed. Very often they just wait on cap-points like sitting ducks. zero speed is zero defense is 100% hit chance for me. Then there are still players even in escorts who dont have any copies of tac team?! And then its said, its my fault. I am cheating. I use broken stuff. Exploits.
So, OP, tell me: What would be a fair use of a weak shielded with lowest hitpoints BoP in your opinion?
I think Alpha strikes could get very sickening when Romulans come if you can have superior subterfuge and superior operative on the same romulan boff x5 boffs. Though we can deal with that when it comes, the serious PvPers will volentarily stop using something considered very imbalanced example: graviton pulse.
Won't that just make the Nebula useful again? And can't everyone get Romulan BOFFs on their own ships for extra sneaky?
KvF I find quite entertaining in kerrat at times, I feel like the skipper in Das Boot being hunted by a sweeper, could even switch to feeling like the skipper in the cruel sea, being stalked by an invisible enemy, battle of wits, speed and aggressiveness.
I also enjoy watching any player skulk away after a failed alpha.
Sci and engineer are like an anvil, the Tac is the hammer. You don't hold the anvil to do the shaping, you wield the hammer and use the anvil as support.
Honestly I am not so afraid of Alpha Strike ships.
I am more afraid of that BOP Science ship that decloaks uses tractor repulsors, chraged particles, other shield draining techniques...more stuns and HY torps me to death.
He does all these things before I can even fire an ability. I am sure there is a counter somewhere I just haven't bothered to look yet since I encounter it so rarely in Kerrat.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and the worst part is when another Fed ships flies right past me after I got done using my cruiser support abilities to save his little escort from death a few minutes ago. Some salt in the wound right there.
Won't that just make the Nebula useful again? And can't everyone get Romulan BOFFs on their own ships for extra sneaky?
I'm talking about the Romulan bridge officers from the Romulan faction. They are different to the ones from the embassy as they can have both space traits not just 1. Only seen one with superior romulan operative (increased crit chance, damage and I think decreased cloak time) and subterfuge (normal version with defence increase, I think increase to decloak damage and something else) so I don't know if you can get a romulan bridge officer with both as superior traits. Still it will make decloaking alpha strikes very powerful if they all stack and with a full crew of romulans.
For the 7th time, not about me. I'll just keep saying it.
Sounded false the first time, sounds false the seventh time. "Oh it's for all the other poor people in PvP..." Give me abreak. No one asked for a self appointed PvP savior.
FACT: If "you" (or whomever) doesn't take the time to learn the mechanics and (dare I even suggest) INVEST the time into why "you" lose you always will.
If "You" think your few months, or even a year, gives you some Godlike insight over people like Thissler, Minimax, redricky, the Pandas, Hilbert, DDIS, and others who were cracking out spreadsheets since beta, then "you" need to step back and seriously reevaluate the premise of "your" argument.
20 pages (more or less) telling you why "your" argument is flawed and like a bought politician you just refuse to accept reality because it doesn't suit "your" agenda.
Thissler is a great pilot. He has a specialized setup, and uses it on the unwary and inattentive. I believe if you asked him yourself that he would tell you that TT1 and manual shield balancing goes a long way toward thwarting his attacks. Even better is TT1 x2.
When you hear the alpha strike coming - you do listen to cues don't you? - it's time to throw up your TT. Used up your TT? Manual shield distribution and other heals. I've watched all of his videos, and they will reinforce this.
Also hitting Evasive, and either dumping warp plasma out (Oh man does Thiss hate that!), or sliding around like a scared little girl so the second part of Thiss's attack doesn't actually strike your ship's weak side pretty much stops the runs dead cold.
Would be nice if the Nebula shared the same ability as the Stealth Stalker Shuttle.
"You want to know why the Nebula looks like a giant disk? You don't want to know why it looks like a disk. You want to know why we don't shoot at it? You don't want to know why we don't shoot at it."
You lost me there. If mines aren't linked to dispersal patterns, then what are?
Before the mine overhaul mines did exist in STO... and so did dispersal patterns.
For 2 and a half years you could spit out a whole bunch of photons or quantums or chrons or phasic mines...
However when you used a tricobalt mine it didn't matter if you loaded a pattern or not you still only dropped ONE tricobalt mine.
Bort revamped mines REDUCING the overall number of mines dropped both with and with out patterns... he gave them all MES values. He also decided that Tricobalts could work with the spread patterns. That last part was a massive mistake... frankly I don't think he understood the code well enough to not include them in his change... so the fix they got was likely the best he could come up with. (I'm guessing on that last part)
Bottom line... the games original designers KNEW that tricobalts would be over powered if patterns allowed you to drop more then one of them... so they never worked with patterns. Changing that original vision of tri mines was the mistake.
Before the mine overhaul mines did exist in STO... and so did dispersal patterns.
For 2 and a half years you could spit out a whole bunch of photons or quantums or chrons or phasic mines...
However when you used a tricobalt mine it didn't matter if you loaded a pattern or not you still only dropped ONE tricobalt mine.
Bort revamped mines REDUCING the overall number of mines dropped both with and with out patterns... he gave them all MES values. He also decided that Tricobalts could work with the spread patterns. That last part was a massive mistake... frankly I don't think he understood the code well enough to not include them in his change... so the fix they got was likely the best he could come up with. (I'm guessing on that last part)
Bottom line... the games original designers KNEW that tricobalts would be over powered if patterns allowed you to drop more then one of them... so they never worked with patterns. Changing that original vision of tri mines was the mistake.
The only reason why Tricobalts became problematic is because the engine's critical hit mechanic was incredibly flawed. Instead of rolling for each individual mine, it would roll once for all four on activation of Dispersal Patterns. This allowed for four massively powerful critical hits in quick succession. This has since been fixed with Legacy of Romulus.
The only reason why Tricobalts became problematic with Dispersal Patterns is because the engine's critical hit mechanic was incredibly flawed. Instead of rolling for each individual mine, it would roll once for all four on activation of Dispersal Pattern Beta. This allowed for four massively powerful critical hits in quick succession. This has since been fixed with Legacy of Romulus.
Yes I'm aware of the mechanic and honestly even with out a chain crit they would still have been broken.
What the real issue with them and frankly you can still do it today is the chain disable... the chain disable doesn't one shot cubes though. So cryptic is fine with it. With out the massive numbers escort and bop pilots aren't willing to use there Commander slots for disperal 3... still if you get hit today by 4 tric mines your as good as dead if another half decent player is anywhere around.
Who needs tricobalts? I tried DPB3 Quantums yesterday and I liked the 30k hits per mine very much :P FOMM+APB2+DBB3 = priceless And on just 15s cooldown with tactical intiative...
Of course that's STF..
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Bird of Preys are made for hit and run Alpha strikes. And by far its not be done by hitting some buttons and the target blows. As said: There are so many counters, evasive, Reverse shields, tactitcal team, AP Omega or polarize hull, if you have been tractored and and and ...
My personal experience is, that the most ignorant palyers are the most complaining about getting insta-killed. Very often they just wait on cap-points like sitting ducks. zero speed is zero defense is 100% hit chance for me. Then there are still players even in escorts who dont have any copies of tac team?! And then its said, its my fault. I am cheating. I use broken stuff. Exploits.
So, OP, tell me: What would be a fair use of a weak shielded with lowest hitpoints BoP in your opinion?
I'd like to expand slightly on what BoPs are made for. Their primary, most obvious intent would be the hit-and-run alpha strikes, that is true. However, they also make passable healboats and decent sci-spammers. They won't do either job as well as ships that were designed for it, but they can do it. That's the true power of the BoP, the universal boffslots. At this time, it is the only ship class to have all universal boffslots (though Cryptic keeps giving more and more universal slots to expensive, end-game ships). This theoretically means a BoP can fit any role except zombie tank.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Also hitting Evasive, and either dumping warp plasma out (Oh man does Thiss hate that!), or sliding around like a scared little girl so the second part of Thiss's attack doesn't actually strike your ship's weak side pretty much stops the runs dead cold.
That's why Thiss sometimes uses a tractor beam. I've taken to using it as well, and it's bloody useful. TT2 with no skillpoints or consoles to gravitons, and it's still useful.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Who needs tricobalts? I tried DPB3 Quantums yesterday and I liked the 30k hits per mine very much :P FOMM+APB2+DBB3 = priceless And on just 15s cooldown with tactical intiative...
Of course that's STF..
Quantums will work well enough in STFs, especially when buffed by tac consoles. In STFs. . .they don't really have the necessary umph to make the most of their limited shield penetration. Not to mention players will have higher resists and TT clears both FOMM and APB. That's why people usually stick with either tricobalts for the higher damage output, or transphasics for the extra shield penetration. Occasionally I'll see someone using chronitons if they're running an immobilizer build.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
I think Alpha strikes could get very sickening when Romulans come if you can have superior subterfuge and superior operative on the same romulan boff x5 boffs. Though we can deal with that when it comes, the serious PvPers will volentarily stop using something considered very imbalanced example: graviton pulse.
However in the video shown if you were any decent player you'd notice most targets didn't have tactical team up, no emmergency power to shields running, not even rotate shield polarity. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if they were running aegis shields or something with 0 resists built in. Those alpha strike were nice, fast and congrats on getting it so well timed but against a proper tank (usually cruiser) it would get shaken of while the captain was napping.
I wasn't happy with the tric nerf but then they were getting very silly. I think a hard cap on just how high they can hit would have been a better idea than nerfing the spike, right now only my tactical can make good use of tric bombing and even then I might as well use DHCs and BO3 imo. Course people could have used tractor repulsors/pet spam/mines/evasive manuevers to solve the tric mine problem.
Exactly, numerous counters to that. No different than how my issue has counters yet is contrarily objected to. The precident has already been set for how to handle devastatingly powerful combos by PWE. Nerf them, not "Counter them *insert name-calling here*!"
The biggest problem with the trico mines, was you couldn't even see them at one point. That was a massive PvE fleet event issue as well.
The KDF in kerrat were using it to bomb the warp in zone as well, plenty of times I've had a game reset, warp in and suddenly with no warning 'poof' ship goes up along with 5-6 others in one go.
That to me is the epitome of an 'I win' button.
Much as spawn camping escorts do. Normally KDF ones that can cloak at any sign of trouble. But I am not singling out KDF by any means.
Sounded false the first time, sounds false the seventh time. "Oh it's for all the other poor people in PvP..." Give me abreak. No one asked for a self appointed PvP savior.
FACT: If "you" (or whomever) doesn't take the time to learn the mechanics and (dare I even suggest) INVEST the time into why "you" lose you always will.
If "You" think your few months, or even a year, gives you some Godlike insight over people like Thissler, Minimax, redricky, the Pandas, Hilbert, DDIS, and others who were cracking out spreadsheets since beta, then "you" need to step back and seriously reevaluate the premise of "your" argument.
20 pages (more or less) telling you why "your" argument is flawed and like a bought politician you just refuse to accept reality because it doesn't suit "your" agenda.
Sir, I'd like to introduce you to 2 things. Respect and logic. Let me quote rather than explain:
"Here is a list of the intellectually-dishonest debate tactics I have identified thus far. I would appreciate any help from readers to expand the list or to better define each tactic. I am numbering the list in order to refer back to it quickly elsewhere at this Web site.
Name calling: debater tries to diminish the argument of his opponent by calling the opponent a name that is subjective and unattractive...
Changing the subject: debater is losing so he tries to redirect the attention of the audience to another subject area where he thinks he can look better relative to the person he is debating, but admits to no change of subject and pretends to be refuting the original on-subject statement of his opponent
Questioning the motives of the opponent: this is a form of tactic number 2..."
This topic still isn't and never was about me, my motives, my builds, my past loses to a particular method but simply whether this type of play is generally acceptable. I don't blame the people using these methods, they want to win.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk
Wellllll...imho, I reallly want to say that Escorts are OPed, but then, when I am in my Heavy Cruiser and it takes ALOT of fire power to send me to the scrap yard, I have to say...maybe I am the one that is OPed and the Escort Captains are saying nerf Betty she has "special" PvP consoles and weapons...She can not be killed...Well I can be killed but I do not whine about it, I just get mad and figure what I did wrong or what TRIBBLE equipment I have on the ship, maybe fire a boff or two.
BTW Engineering Capts do have a "secret" weapon it is called Miracle Worker and I have it in a III version. If anybody should be complaining it is probly the Escort Captains, because I can soak up an Alpha Strike...however 2 alpha strikes back to back will usually doom me.
I think the OP is realllly talking about the Pre mades and how they rule PvP. Well they should, they have spent RL time, ECs, lobi's, dilth and zen honing thier PvP skills. If you happen to end up fighting them...fight harder is all I can tell you. Sad Pandas come to mind, there are a others but the Pandas seem to set the standard for PvP. I cannot fault dedicated PvP Fleets for being "good" at their craft.
Escorts get a +15 weapons, I think a True Cruiser (4x4 weaps loadout) should get a +15 to shields and Sci cruisers (3x3 weaps load out) gets a +15 to aux AND aux should go back to the old version where it adds to "all" the sci powers. The +10 added ship buffs should be sent to other ship power levels. Escorts get a +10 to engines True cruisers get +10 to aux and Sci Cruisers get +10 to shields. I feel the +15 weapons power should be a escort only advantage because they were built as a "damage dealer". My numbers might be a little off but I think you all get the idea.
PvP can be sooo much better in STO and maybe one day the Devs with spend some more time working on it. I feel we should be able to lead boarding parties and take over a ship, gaining MORE dilth and ECs and rewards ect and also adding a new element into the game.
just my 2ec's worth
"Sips her PWE Koolaide and looks at alllll the goodies in the Z store"
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
Much as spawn camping escorts do. Normally KDF ones that can cloak at any sign of trouble. But I am not singling out KDF by any means.
Basically you are comparing an item used to an actual player? That works?!
Although, I dispise spawn camp fullstop.
Im sorry but you still havent explained why this is even relevent at all, nerfing the Alpha. Why? Why nerf something thats totally legitimate and easily countered, in fact its easier to counter than viral matrix, SNB, sensor sweep.
You veil is thin on this, we all know its YOU that has suffered to an alpha more than a few times but due to your ignorance or stubborness you still havent figured how to counter it. Even though just about everyone in this thread has.
If it was soooooo OP, you wouldnt need upwards of 3 of the main buffs to do this, you wouldnt need to be within 5km, you wouldnt need to time it to perfection. Oh and on top of that, it takes 2 minutes minimum until the next one and theres no guarantee it even works.
Especially now with all the rep, resistances bla bla bla, the alpha is the only skill worth using next to SNB (combine the 2 for mega deadly).
So I suggest and Im sure everyone else will here will agree, stop crying, dry your tears, then move on, learn how to actually play the game (having loads of ships means nothing), or just log out of STO, uninstall it then climb back under the rock from which you came from.
Frankly you have showed a complete disregard for the mechanics of the game, you have showed the attitude of 'I am bestust player in STO, I know all' and refuse to take on board the advice that has already been given.
Im far from the best PvPer on this game and even I know how to evade/stop an alpha from working.
As a sidenote, read the release notes for the tricos, it explains why they were REPAIRED, they were never ever ever meant to be as random spike as they were, they were also more invisible than standard mines, you cant counter what you cant see (hence the mega 1 shot kills in fleet defence when the enemy spread tricos).
So really, learn about it before crying nerf, they were never nerfed.
BTW Engineering Capts do have a "secret" weapon it is called Miracle Worker and I have it in a III version. If anybody should be complaining it is probly the Escort Captains, because I can soak up an Alpha Strike...however 2 alpha strikes back to back will usually doom me.
And to think that if Tribble changes are coming, all Engi's are going to get a trait called "Grace Under Fire" which refreshes the CD of Miracle Worker if your ship takes more than 20% hull damage (works every 90s). Essentially, Miracle Worker every 90 seconds...:eek:
__________________________________________________
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
the ONLY thing about alpha strike that's OP is that a good escort can double it's damage just by being a tactical. i'm an engineer in a escort, and tacticals will always have the potential to out damage me. it sucks, but i have my miracle worker, and i'm soon to get more powerful then you can possibly imagine ...
And to think that if Tribble changes are coming, all Engi's are going to get a trait called "Grace Under Fire" which refreshes the CD of Miracle Worker if your ship takes more than 20% hull damage (works every 90s). Essentially, Miracle Worker every 90 seconds...
thank you cryptic.... you hero
as for you're first comment about "only counterable if you spend hours/days working to counter it..." thats true of most good PVP builds. heck, you think alpha strike is bad? put alpha strike on a bugship. i've destroyed my fair share of bugships now, it's hard, but they're just bugships. small, annoying, and make a very satisfying noise when you stomp on them. yeah, just starting PVP, you dont have a chance against them. infact, even if you had a bugship, and you went to fight a bugship, guess what, still no chance. the pro will always beat the noob. ship/powers doesnt matter, its the player's own person skill/experience that makes the difference in PVP half the time. the other half is locked boxes.
believe it or not, alpha strikes are the only thing keeping the OP fed escorts in check. Compared to KDF BoPs, FED escorts have better hull and shield powers. However, Alpha strikes reduce them to what they really are, squishy glass cannons that can only fight head to head.
As far as whether or not alpha strikes are OP, using a fairly sturdy cruiser with polarize hull, reverse shield polarity, and any anti-cloaking powers (especially against the B'rel) can easily withstand even the most potent attacks.
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Comments
Hahaha. . .if you're fighting Klingons and don't expect a cloaked attack, you ARE a moron. Or it's your first PvP match or something.
I still can't figure out if you're just stirring up sh*t because you're bored, or if you're really this obtuse.
Deny it all you want, I'm still gonna believe it. It's the same denial tactic you use when we repeatedly explain to you why your 'argument' is idiotic and wrong-headed.
However in the video shown if you were any decent player you'd notice most targets didn't have tactical team up, no emmergency power to shields running, not even rotate shield polarity. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if they were running aegis shields or something with 0 resists built in. Those alpha strike were nice, fast and congrats on getting it so well timed but against a proper tank (usually cruiser) it would get shaken of while the captain was napping.
I wasn't happy with the tric nerf but then they were getting very silly. I think a hard cap on just how high they can hit would have been a better idea than nerfing the spike, right now only my tactical can make good use of tric bombing and even then I might as well use DHCs and BO3 imo. Course people could have used tractor repulsors/pet spam/mines/evasive manuevers to solve the tric mine problem.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
The KDF in kerrat were using it to bomb the warp in zone as well, plenty of times I've had a game reset, warp in and suddenly with no warning 'poof' ship goes up along with 5-6 others in one go.
That to me is the epitome of an 'I win' button.
rsp, bfi (with 3-4 shield distribution/hazard systems doffs)
My personal experience is, that the most ignorant palyers are the most complaining about getting insta-killed. Very often they just wait on cap-points like sitting ducks. zero speed is zero defense is 100% hit chance for me. Then there are still players even in escorts who dont have any copies of tac team?! And then its said, its my fault. I am cheating. I use broken stuff. Exploits.
So, OP, tell me: What would be a fair use of a weak shielded with lowest hitpoints BoP in your opinion?
You lost me there. If mines aren't linked to dispersal patterns, then what are?
Won't that just make the Nebula useful again? And can't everyone get Romulan BOFFs on their own ships for extra sneaky?
I also enjoy watching any player skulk away after a failed alpha.
Sci and engineer are like an anvil, the Tac is the hammer. You don't hold the anvil to do the shaping, you wield the hammer and use the anvil as support.
I am more afraid of that BOP Science ship that decloaks uses tractor repulsors, chraged particles, other shield draining techniques...more stuns and HY torps me to death.
He does all these things before I can even fire an ability. I am sure there is a counter somewhere I just haven't bothered to look yet since I encounter it so rarely in Kerrat.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and the worst part is when another Fed ships flies right past me after I got done using my cruiser support abilities to save his little escort from death a few minutes ago. Some salt in the wound right there.
I'm talking about the Romulan bridge officers from the Romulan faction. They are different to the ones from the embassy as they can have both space traits not just 1. Only seen one with superior romulan operative (increased crit chance, damage and I think decreased cloak time) and subterfuge (normal version with defence increase, I think increase to decloak damage and something else) so I don't know if you can get a romulan bridge officer with both as superior traits. Still it will make decloaking alpha strikes very powerful if they all stack and with a full crew of romulans.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Sounded false the first time, sounds false the seventh time. "Oh it's for all the other poor people in PvP..." Give me abreak. No one asked for a self appointed PvP savior.
FACT: If "you" (or whomever) doesn't take the time to learn the mechanics and (dare I even suggest) INVEST the time into why "you" lose you always will.
If "You" think your few months, or even a year, gives you some Godlike insight over people like Thissler, Minimax, redricky, the Pandas, Hilbert, DDIS, and others who were cracking out spreadsheets since beta, then "you" need to step back and seriously reevaluate the premise of "your" argument.
20 pages (more or less) telling you why "your" argument is flawed and like a bought politician you just refuse to accept reality because it doesn't suit "your" agenda.
Also hitting Evasive, and either dumping warp plasma out (Oh man does Thiss hate that!), or sliding around like a scared little girl so the second part of Thiss's attack doesn't actually strike your ship's weak side pretty much stops the runs dead cold.
"You want to know why the Nebula looks like a giant disk? You don't want to know why it looks like a disk. You want to know why we don't shoot at it? You don't want to know why we don't shoot at it."
Before the mine overhaul mines did exist in STO... and so did dispersal patterns.
For 2 and a half years you could spit out a whole bunch of photons or quantums or chrons or phasic mines...
However when you used a tricobalt mine it didn't matter if you loaded a pattern or not you still only dropped ONE tricobalt mine.
Bort revamped mines REDUCING the overall number of mines dropped both with and with out patterns... he gave them all MES values. He also decided that Tricobalts could work with the spread patterns. That last part was a massive mistake... frankly I don't think he understood the code well enough to not include them in his change... so the fix they got was likely the best he could come up with. (I'm guessing on that last part)
Bottom line... the games original designers KNEW that tricobalts would be over powered if patterns allowed you to drop more then one of them... so they never worked with patterns. Changing that original vision of tri mines was the mistake.
The only reason why Tricobalts became problematic is because the engine's critical hit mechanic was incredibly flawed. Instead of rolling for each individual mine, it would roll once for all four on activation of Dispersal Patterns. This allowed for four massively powerful critical hits in quick succession. This has since been fixed with Legacy of Romulus.
Yes I'm aware of the mechanic and honestly even with out a chain crit they would still have been broken.
What the real issue with them and frankly you can still do it today is the chain disable... the chain disable doesn't one shot cubes though. So cryptic is fine with it. With out the massive numbers escort and bop pilots aren't willing to use there Commander slots for disperal 3... still if you get hit today by 4 tric mines your as good as dead if another half decent player is anywhere around.
Of course that's STF..
I'd like to expand slightly on what BoPs are made for. Their primary, most obvious intent would be the hit-and-run alpha strikes, that is true. However, they also make passable healboats and decent sci-spammers. They won't do either job as well as ships that were designed for it, but they can do it. That's the true power of the BoP, the universal boffslots. At this time, it is the only ship class to have all universal boffslots (though Cryptic keeps giving more and more universal slots to expensive, end-game ships). This theoretically means a BoP can fit any role except zombie tank.
That's why Thiss sometimes uses a tractor beam. I've taken to using it as well, and it's bloody useful. TT2 with no skillpoints or consoles to gravitons, and it's still useful.
Quantums will work well enough in STFs, especially when buffed by tac consoles. In STFs. . .they don't really have the necessary umph to make the most of their limited shield penetration. Not to mention players will have higher resists and TT clears both FOMM and APB. That's why people usually stick with either tricobalts for the higher damage output, or transphasics for the extra shield penetration. Occasionally I'll see someone using chronitons if they're running an immobilizer build.
Exactly, numerous counters to that. No different than how my issue has counters yet is contrarily objected to. The precident has already been set for how to handle devastatingly powerful combos by PWE. Nerf them, not "Counter them *insert name-calling here*!"
Much as spawn camping escorts do. Normally KDF ones that can cloak at any sign of trouble. But I am not singling out KDF by any means.
Sir, I'd like to introduce you to 2 things. Respect and logic. Let me quote rather than explain:
"Here is a list of the intellectually-dishonest debate tactics I have identified thus far. I would appreciate any help from readers to expand the list or to better define each tactic. I am numbering the list in order to refer back to it quickly elsewhere at this Web site.
Name calling: debater tries to diminish the argument of his opponent by calling the opponent a name that is subjective and unattractive...
Changing the subject: debater is losing so he tries to redirect the attention of the audience to another subject area where he thinks he can look better relative to the person he is debating, but admits to no change of subject and pretends to be refuting the original on-subject statement of his opponent
Questioning the motives of the opponent: this is a form of tactic number 2..."
http://www.johntreed.com/debate.html
This topic still isn't and never was about me, my motives, my builds, my past loses to a particular method but simply whether this type of play is generally acceptable. I don't blame the people using these methods, they want to win.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
BTW Engineering Capts do have a "secret" weapon it is called Miracle Worker and I have it in a III version. If anybody should be complaining it is probly the Escort Captains, because I can soak up an Alpha Strike...however 2 alpha strikes back to back will usually doom me.
I think the OP is realllly talking about the Pre mades and how they rule PvP. Well they should, they have spent RL time, ECs, lobi's, dilth and zen honing thier PvP skills. If you happen to end up fighting them...fight harder is all I can tell you. Sad Pandas come to mind, there are a others but the Pandas seem to set the standard for PvP. I cannot fault dedicated PvP Fleets for being "good" at their craft.
Escorts get a +15 weapons, I think a True Cruiser (4x4 weaps loadout) should get a +15 to shields and Sci cruisers (3x3 weaps load out) gets a +15 to aux AND aux should go back to the old version where it adds to "all" the sci powers. The +10 added ship buffs should be sent to other ship power levels. Escorts get a +10 to engines True cruisers get +10 to aux and Sci Cruisers get +10 to shields. I feel the +15 weapons power should be a escort only advantage because they were built as a "damage dealer". My numbers might be a little off but I think you all get the idea.
PvP can be sooo much better in STO and maybe one day the Devs with spend some more time working on it. I feel we should be able to lead boarding parties and take over a ship, gaining MORE dilth and ECs and rewards ect and also adding a new element into the game.
just my 2ec's worth
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
Basically you are comparing an item used to an actual player? That works?!
Although, I dispise spawn camp fullstop.
Im sorry but you still havent explained why this is even relevent at all, nerfing the Alpha. Why? Why nerf something thats totally legitimate and easily countered, in fact its easier to counter than viral matrix, SNB, sensor sweep.
You veil is thin on this, we all know its YOU that has suffered to an alpha more than a few times but due to your ignorance or stubborness you still havent figured how to counter it. Even though just about everyone in this thread has.
If it was soooooo OP, you wouldnt need upwards of 3 of the main buffs to do this, you wouldnt need to be within 5km, you wouldnt need to time it to perfection. Oh and on top of that, it takes 2 minutes minimum until the next one and theres no guarantee it even works.
Especially now with all the rep, resistances bla bla bla, the alpha is the only skill worth using next to SNB (combine the 2 for mega deadly).
So I suggest and Im sure everyone else will here will agree, stop crying, dry your tears, then move on, learn how to actually play the game (having loads of ships means nothing), or just log out of STO, uninstall it then climb back under the rock from which you came from.
Frankly you have showed a complete disregard for the mechanics of the game, you have showed the attitude of 'I am bestust player in STO, I know all' and refuse to take on board the advice that has already been given.
Im far from the best PvPer on this game and even I know how to evade/stop an alpha from working.
As a sidenote, read the release notes for the tricos, it explains why they were REPAIRED, they were never ever ever meant to be as random spike as they were, they were also more invisible than standard mines, you cant counter what you cant see (hence the mega 1 shot kills in fleet defence when the enemy spread tricos).
So really, learn about it before crying nerf, they were never nerfed.
And to think that if Tribble changes are coming, all Engi's are going to get a trait called "Grace Under Fire" which refreshes the CD of Miracle Worker if your ship takes more than 20% hull damage (works every 90s). Essentially, Miracle Worker every 90 seconds...:eek:
All hands! Prepare the popcorn and tinfoil hats!
as for you're first comment about "only counterable if you spend hours/days working to counter it..." thats true of most good PVP builds. heck, you think alpha strike is bad? put alpha strike on a bugship. i've destroyed my fair share of bugships now, it's hard, but they're just bugships. small, annoying, and make a very satisfying noise when you stomp on them. yeah, just starting PVP, you dont have a chance against them. infact, even if you had a bugship, and you went to fight a bugship, guess what, still no chance. the pro will always beat the noob. ship/powers doesnt matter, its the player's own person skill/experience that makes the difference in PVP half the time. the other half is locked boxes.
As far as whether or not alpha strikes are OP, using a fairly sturdy cruiser with polarize hull, reverse shield polarity, and any anti-cloaking powers (especially against the B'rel) can easily withstand even the most potent attacks.
Ajma420 - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Federation
Catherine The Great - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Empire
Vladimir - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Rihannsu Empire