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How to spec your Cruiser for DPS in STFs
eardianm
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Well, we already have an Escort thread, but there still seems to be a large misconception about the status of cruisers as damage dealers in STFs. Aux to Battery has opened up reasonable to extreme dps options for cruisers, including hitting top tier DPS numbers while being much more forgiving to fly than Escorts at that level.
So, the basics. You've surely come to realize that a standard cruiser is light on dps and heavy on healing, which isn't really needed when you understand STFs and fly with like people. If you're someone still looking for the healer role, this is not the post for you. A2B spamming means constantly near empty aux, except for temp spikes with batteries or EPtA if you decide to slot. The overview of A2B is this: Near to max energy levels for weapons, shields, and engines, at the cost of your aux power. Throw in 3 very rare technician doffs, and you're effectively duplicating all those precious tac boff slots on your ship, which is a primary constraint of cruisers. For more details into the mechanics, this post covers it more elegantly than I ever could: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=547581 (beware, it's the pvp forum. they may bite you)
So, the second key to good damage in a beam cruiser is keeping those weapon energy levels peaked as much as possible. A2B helps this in general by ramming energy from aux into weapons. EPtW can also help, and as a bonus will give a longer damage buff come LoR. But the two big items are: 2 piece Omega Adapted set proc, and Marion Frances Dulmur. The former is easy enough to grab, as it's available by tier 2 of the Omega rep. Marion is a bit expensive, lately around 15 mil EC on Fed side and 30+ on KDF, and could be considering a more pimping/finishing option. Both of these provide Weapon Power Resistance procs that will keep your energy almost at peak while your beams fire away.
Much of other general information in the Escort thread carriers over. Plasma is the current king due to the rommie plasma having the disruptor proc, and the embassy consoles coming with a + plasma damage tag. Regular disruptors and antiproton come after, and the rest can be ignored for now. Not that you can't still put up good numbers with any type, but the other procs will not be nearly the benefit that the 3 above are.
Also, while beams do have a greatly reduced damage falloff compared to dhcs, you still want to be broadsiding targets from as short a distance as possible to maximize damage. So saddle right on up to those cubes and fire away.
So, what you end up with in ideal cruisers (lt com tac slot) is the ability to maximize APB and FAW uptime, with greater range flexibility then escorts in regards to damage falloff, and fun extras like maximum availability for DEM and RSP.
Take a look at the ideal A2B cruiser layout on the Fed side, the Fleet Assault Cruiser.
3x Rommie Plasma Beams [CRTD]x2, 1x Experimental Rommie Beam
3x Rommie Plasma Beams [CRTD]x2, 1x Kinetic Cutting Beam
Maco/KHG/Fleet Elite shields
Romulan Engines
Omega/random +Targeting deflector
Devices to taste. Weapon, Aux and Engine Batteries are all nice
Eng: Tachyokinetic, Zero-Point, Assimiliated, 1 dealers choice. Fed lack a good toy console for extra damage, so you could even fit an armor console
Sci: 2x Romulan Embassy consoles w/ +PLA tag, +-th choice. I personally go shield emitters
Tac: 4x Plasma Infusers
BOs look like this:
Tac Ens (Rom Operative): TT1/whatever
Tac Lt Com (Rom Operative): TT1, FAW2, APB2
Eng Com: EPtS1, A2B1, RSP2, DEM3
Eng Lt: EPtW1/EPtA1, A2B1
Sci Lt: HE1/PH1, TSS2/HE2/PH2
Doffs:
3x VR Technician
1x Marion/Exocomp/Quatermaster
1x Dlyrene
So, we have a 100% offensively focused cruiser that still has the ability to pop a battery for a strong HE/TSS, along with the shortest downtime possible for RSP. You're constantly spamming FAW with APB2, tagging every target in sight to help your teammates out. You do suffer from a bit from damage waste in STFs on targets that aren't ready to be shot at yet, but as the team dps goes up, this actually becomes less of an issue.
Fleet Assault is of course a T5 shipyard requirement, but the Fleet Excel can fill in quite nicely. You lose a bit of damage due to one less Rom operative tac slot, but otherwise it's still quite competitive. The D'kora and Galor also have the ideal Com Eng/Lt Com tac layout and can be leveraged for this. And the 9 slot versions work as well of course, you're just not going to hit quite as high on the damage meter. Same with Lt tac only cruisers. You'll lose damage, but still be able to provide decent numbers to the team.
On the Klingon side, while they have the highest damage option in the 5 tac console Tactical Bortasqu and a lower damage but easier to handle Fleet Vor'Cha, their layout leaves them not as tanky. To fit 2x A2B, you look at either losing RSP, or DEM. The latter is going to causing a decent DPS drop (usually around 6-8% of my parse, even more if you were using Marion synergy), while the former can leave you squishy. that said, both can be babied through with careful piloting, and in extremely high dps groups won't ever really be at risk anyway.
As a Tac captain in one of these ships with mid to high end gear, you should be looking at the 10-15k damage range in an ISE parse with "minimal" piloting. This is easily the top end range of most escort pilots, and you aren't even having to fly nearly as carefully to extract it, while enjoying as good or better self tanking abilities thanks to the RSP get out of jail free card. Once you get used to the required power slides, etc, to put you in ideal range, 20k+ is quite achievable. I've seen an entire 1 escort pilot able to hit similar numbers so far, and I certainly can't personally scratch that in an escort as it takes some serious planing and piloting skill. Eng and Sci captains won't hit these same highs, but they wouldn't in escorts either.
Finally, keybinding is obviously going to help, and is covered in multiple other spots on the forum. By default, you'll want A2B, TT, and EPtX abilites on the keybind to spam away, letting you focus on positioning and FAW/APB/captain power usage.
So, the basics. You've surely come to realize that a standard cruiser is light on dps and heavy on healing, which isn't really needed when you understand STFs and fly with like people. If you're someone still looking for the healer role, this is not the post for you. A2B spamming means constantly near empty aux, except for temp spikes with batteries or EPtA if you decide to slot. The overview of A2B is this: Near to max energy levels for weapons, shields, and engines, at the cost of your aux power. Throw in 3 very rare technician doffs, and you're effectively duplicating all those precious tac boff slots on your ship, which is a primary constraint of cruisers. For more details into the mechanics, this post covers it more elegantly than I ever could: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=547581 (beware, it's the pvp forum. they may bite you)
So, the second key to good damage in a beam cruiser is keeping those weapon energy levels peaked as much as possible. A2B helps this in general by ramming energy from aux into weapons. EPtW can also help, and as a bonus will give a longer damage buff come LoR. But the two big items are: 2 piece Omega Adapted set proc, and Marion Frances Dulmur. The former is easy enough to grab, as it's available by tier 2 of the Omega rep. Marion is a bit expensive, lately around 15 mil EC on Fed side and 30+ on KDF, and could be considering a more pimping/finishing option. Both of these provide Weapon Power Resistance procs that will keep your energy almost at peak while your beams fire away.
Much of other general information in the Escort thread carriers over. Plasma is the current king due to the rommie plasma having the disruptor proc, and the embassy consoles coming with a + plasma damage tag. Regular disruptors and antiproton come after, and the rest can be ignored for now. Not that you can't still put up good numbers with any type, but the other procs will not be nearly the benefit that the 3 above are.
Also, while beams do have a greatly reduced damage falloff compared to dhcs, you still want to be broadsiding targets from as short a distance as possible to maximize damage. So saddle right on up to those cubes and fire away.
So, what you end up with in ideal cruisers (lt com tac slot) is the ability to maximize APB and FAW uptime, with greater range flexibility then escorts in regards to damage falloff, and fun extras like maximum availability for DEM and RSP.
Take a look at the ideal A2B cruiser layout on the Fed side, the Fleet Assault Cruiser.
3x Rommie Plasma Beams [CRTD]x2, 1x Experimental Rommie Beam
3x Rommie Plasma Beams [CRTD]x2, 1x Kinetic Cutting Beam
Maco/KHG/Fleet Elite shields
Romulan Engines
Omega/random +Targeting deflector
Devices to taste. Weapon, Aux and Engine Batteries are all nice
Eng: Tachyokinetic, Zero-Point, Assimiliated, 1 dealers choice. Fed lack a good toy console for extra damage, so you could even fit an armor console
Sci: 2x Romulan Embassy consoles w/ +PLA tag, +-th choice. I personally go shield emitters
Tac: 4x Plasma Infusers
BOs look like this:
Tac Ens (Rom Operative): TT1/whatever
Tac Lt Com (Rom Operative): TT1, FAW2, APB2
Eng Com: EPtS1, A2B1, RSP2, DEM3
Eng Lt: EPtW1/EPtA1, A2B1
Sci Lt: HE1/PH1, TSS2/HE2/PH2
Doffs:
3x VR Technician
1x Marion/Exocomp/Quatermaster
1x Dlyrene
So, we have a 100% offensively focused cruiser that still has the ability to pop a battery for a strong HE/TSS, along with the shortest downtime possible for RSP. You're constantly spamming FAW with APB2, tagging every target in sight to help your teammates out. You do suffer from a bit from damage waste in STFs on targets that aren't ready to be shot at yet, but as the team dps goes up, this actually becomes less of an issue.
Fleet Assault is of course a T5 shipyard requirement, but the Fleet Excel can fill in quite nicely. You lose a bit of damage due to one less Rom operative tac slot, but otherwise it's still quite competitive. The D'kora and Galor also have the ideal Com Eng/Lt Com tac layout and can be leveraged for this. And the 9 slot versions work as well of course, you're just not going to hit quite as high on the damage meter. Same with Lt tac only cruisers. You'll lose damage, but still be able to provide decent numbers to the team.
On the Klingon side, while they have the highest damage option in the 5 tac console Tactical Bortasqu and a lower damage but easier to handle Fleet Vor'Cha, their layout leaves them not as tanky. To fit 2x A2B, you look at either losing RSP, or DEM. The latter is going to causing a decent DPS drop (usually around 6-8% of my parse, even more if you were using Marion synergy), while the former can leave you squishy. that said, both can be babied through with careful piloting, and in extremely high dps groups won't ever really be at risk anyway.
As a Tac captain in one of these ships with mid to high end gear, you should be looking at the 10-15k damage range in an ISE parse with "minimal" piloting. This is easily the top end range of most escort pilots, and you aren't even having to fly nearly as carefully to extract it, while enjoying as good or better self tanking abilities thanks to the RSP get out of jail free card. Once you get used to the required power slides, etc, to put you in ideal range, 20k+ is quite achievable. I've seen an entire 1 escort pilot able to hit similar numbers so far, and I certainly can't personally scratch that in an escort as it takes some serious planing and piloting skill. Eng and Sci captains won't hit these same highs, but they wouldn't in escorts either.
Finally, keybinding is obviously going to help, and is covered in multiple other spots on the forum. By default, you'll want A2B, TT, and EPtX abilites on the keybind to spam away, letting you focus on positioning and FAW/APB/captain power usage.
Post edited by eardianm on
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it works quite well, and for me as an engi i usually get 8-10k dps depending on the group while still being able to tank very very well. Its nice but a bit heavy on EC, in the ends its worth it.
That said, as FAW doesn't really do much for single target DPS, there is an argument to put a BO1 in that slot, and time it with the omega proc and/or marion to spike a bit higher single target.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Hi,
Excellent thread, thanks for posting. However, might I be a total noob and ask where you get these doffs mentioned above? I have looked at the Omega Rep System (which I completed ages ago) but have access only to liberated borg doffs (purple). I dunno where to get the Rom doffs nor do I know how to find Marion and her/his merry band of purple friends.
Again, sorry for the noob question, just am at a loss at this point. The exchange has several purple doffs, but no rommies last time I checked. Thanks in advance.
I'm curious to see how this turns out. Good Luck! :Breaks bottle of champagne against hull:
Marion and Dlyrene are from a couple of lockbox doff packs. Dlyrene is a Space Warfare Specialist, and Marion is a Systems Engineer, you can find them on the exchange.
Technicians can be found in a few places, but the two easiest are either from the B'Tran support assignment critical, or on the exchange (you'll see a lot of them named Horatio, but he isn't the only guy who has that power).
The technician doffs can be obtained either quickly on the exchange for a decent chunk of EC (15-20 mil), or more slowly gathered through the B'Tran colony chain for free. Exocomp is a limited time doff they release in events a few times a year. Quartermasters and Marion you'd find on the exchange, or in doff packs for the former, Temporal thingies for the latter. Really the technicians are the only required part for the build, the rest are just additional damage boosters. You could slot those two openings with whatever, more defense if you wanted. The Fleet Assault example above is full out damage.
Though not steadily available (only a few KDF fleets have reached T5), the Fleet Negh'Var is also a viable option. Making more of a (PvP) tank with the option to run dual A2B, EPtS3, DEM3 and RSP2 or DEM2 (even less downtime). Also with all the shield heals you can even take on FbP1 on the lieu sci slot.
Something like this: may'Duj (something I scribbled together in 5 mins)
Could work, but you need alot and I mean alot of aux batteries and batt CD doff to make a sci A2B build viable. Costs don't outweigh the benefits imho.
I have to get used to the piloting some, but in general, I like it. I feel so much more useful in STFs now.
Thanks!
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Nah, you're overestimating PVE. You won't die from a TT hiccup. Swap RSP for EPtS3, you'll gain much better survivability. The uptime of RSP is terrible compared to EPtS3, and the 30% damage reduction is amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTQvnhNVgxQ
AMAZIIIIINGGGG.
You'll take a small DPS hit, but APD instead of APB if you can grab aggro.
DOES NOT COMPUTE
But yes, for those not trying to eek out the absolute maximum it's a viable change for survival
That being said, I'm having trouble timing my "attack buffs" (FAW, APB, DEM3) between my A2B rotation. I'm not sure I'm doing it right. I've got the two A2B, EPtW, EPtS, and TT rotating on my "spam" keybind (the one I press constantly during battle), then FAW, APB, and DEM3 are on a separate bind that I trigger when I want to alpha (which is basically whenever they're available and I've got a target, heh). Are this correct? Is it just practice I need, or am I doing it wrong? Suggestions?
The other thing I've noticed is that my Captain's Tactical Initiative Power is now unnecessary/useless. Is this working as intended? I'm thinking of removing it from my power tray entirely should I ever need the real estate. :rolleyes:
Eardianm, I've a little nit-pick, question for you: Why do you have the Rom E-Beam in the back? I should think you'd want that in your front/first slot since that doesn't degrade power, and has an innate [CrtH]x3.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Also, Aceton Beam is actually a possible alternative instead of RSP with these Aux2Bat builds. Worth trying out. You can also run EPtS3 and run ET1, but you would need to setup your keybinds properly.
I must say I havent figured it out still^^ on the other hand that leaves something to strive for
And Johnsteward has flown with us multiple times now, has viewed the parses, and still isn't a full convert
edit: Lord, I do actually have the exp beam in the front set of weapons on my ship, I was just quickly jotting down the items for this post.
As for doing PUGs, when you start doing this much damage you can drag a PUG to fast victories and dont have to waste time forming a team. Obviously if you can form a team real fast and go to work, that would be ideal.
So, I guess I should address common criticisms of A2B and FaW spam in general in STFs. Since Snoggy appears to be the resident forum hater of these builds, I'll take his post above from the general forum as a base.
So, first and probably most legitimate complaint is FaW spam artificially pumping damage numbers. It's true, it happens (although so do CSV escorts, but that's not our focus atm). However, I will take the time to walk through an average high damage run for each STF, as it's not to the extent that Snoggy is implying. Will start with ISE since it's the baseline for parse numbers.
ISE - 1. Start with cube and two spheres. You should be powersliding directly into the cube, beams will hit cube and 2 spheres, all valid targets.
2. EM over to directly under the cube but above the transformer. FaW will be hitting cube, transformer, all 4 gens. 5 valid targets, 1 soaking damage while FaW is up. Obviously you can manually target the cube/any gen that is still alive when FaW is down, so no wasted damage. In a high damage run, once 2 gens are down, you're going to do damage to the transformer, although at reduced effectiveness. At 3 gens down, I wouldn't even consider it wasted damage (many times in speed runs the transformer drops before the last gen). FaW is also targeting the 2 sphere spawns, both valid.
3. Begin moving across gate, swiming thru sphere spawn in the process. I don't actually know how many spheres spawn, 6ish? Anyone, X valid targets with all the spheres, gate target damage waste.
4. Repeat of step 1. Bit of waste on the transformer, 5 valid targets + 2 warp ins.
5. Wade into sphere spawn and tac cube. Everything is fair game now, no longer damage waste.
Slower the group, greater potential for damage loss. Pretty much unavoidable because you're going to be spending more time over the transformers while the gens are dropped. That said, it's not a huge loss either way. If you're in range of the gate at this point, your positioning sucks.
CSE This has the biggest potential for damage waste. Best thing to do, which should be happening anyway, is drop the first level of probes under the cubes. That said, I've often seen parses in 25k+ range, which is obviously some bloat. I guess the key to remember is, even with the bloat, you're going to be far above all but the best escort values.
Not much for steps with this. Come in on level with bottom row of probes. FaW should be hitting the bop/raptor/neg spawns as well. Circle around as close as you can just outside the probes, drop the bottom, top, cube. Rinse and repeat.
KASE Kase is probably the most fun because you can do silly stuff with FaW. End game goal should be:
1. Cruise up to tac cube and broadside point blank. No waste. Aim youself for whichever side you are taking post cube
2. Ideally take the transformer closest to the warp out gate. Left gate right transformer/Right gate left transformer. Sliding in with FaW, you take out the probes and the closest gens, spawning the cube. Depending on your angle you can clip the gate, so a touch of damage loss. You should be angling up, aiming to stop above the transformer but on the far side from the gate.
3. FaW away on the cube, the back gens, the transformer, and the gate if you didn't get into correct position. You'll often drop the back to gens before the cube drops, so a partial damage waste on transformer until that point. All waste on the gate if you haven't buffered it with the cube or transformer.
4. Finish off transformer while drifting out to FaW down the probes as well. EM over if the other transformer isn't down yet, otherwise move right up against the gate. FaW hits gate and probe spawns, no damage waste.
HSE Lol no one cares about HSE. There are also no invul targets so no damage waste.
Soooo, to repeat, yes, there is waste. No, it's not so much as to make it appear that you're helping a run while actually being worthless. You also do fun things like tag everything in sight with APB, which helps everyone blow things up faster. You're not going to be able to drop a single target as fast as an elite escort (although I'm still testing with BO option), but they also can't take down multi target spreads as efficiently. I'm waiting for enough high damage A2B cruiser pilots to come along in DPS-5k channel to try a straight cruiser run, as I think it'll give a serious run at our channel records. Of which the current runs involve 2 A2B cruisers.
Not really following the relevance of this, as this is obviously a pve based build. Unless you're saying the FaW is worthless without APA up at all times, then lolno, that is no where near the case in pve so go be strangely bitter elsewhere.
EPtW to season.
As for the build I prefer going the 'Warp Core Engineer + 2-3 Damage Control Engineer' route for putting out lots of damage while still being quite sturdy.
To run a strong cruiser you really need aux2batt technicians. Damage control engineers have a chance to reduce cooldown 30% on just emergency powers. technicians give you a a guaranteed 30% reduction every use of aux2batt, for emergency powers and everything else, letting you use the tactical powers often.
If you want a sturdier build, you can use an Engineer and use a single Aux2batt instead of 2. You get a bit less cooldown and need to learn how it cycles, but 1 is still enough to rotate emergency powers and to get 2 FAWs off inside of a single 30 second captain power (nadion inversion, EPS or APA for tacs), it gives you a clear window to use your Aux healing powers once per cycle, and importantly it lets you use both RSP and emergency to shields 3, and still get 10k in ISE fairly easily while being tanky enough to carry a pug defensively with threat control if you want to.
Is this build worthwhile, if I can't afford the DOFFs and can't unlock all of the Romulan Reputation items yet?
If you're just flying a cruiser casually to have fun, any cruiser can greatly benefit from a aux2batt/omega amplifier/marion build. You'll be able to put out quite a lot more damage than the average cruiser, or even the average pug STFer regardless of ship. Regent/Excelsior/Galor/Dkora/Odyssey is only a requirement for people who are trying to use cruisers in the upper echelons of competitive DPS-squeezing and speed runs.