Hello,
i fly PVP for more than 2 Years now. Most time on Escort.
And no other Ship in this Game was so hard to kill as the Wells Claas!
I do not mainly talk about the Temporal Backstep (OP !).
Maby I am paranoid but i seems something is broken ? I have no proof for that, but the strange feeling,
something is very curious with this Ship.^^
Anyway... the Arena s are full of Temporal Ships, and I am tired of chewing their Shields without scratch there Hull!
I invite everyone to make a "+" in this thread if you agree (or just hate this dam Vessel
)
Or convince me otherwise ?!
(I am German/English is not my 1. language so I apologize for any spelling error!!!)
Comments
Its a lockbox sci ship... and as such its a sci ship +1. Working as intended.
My vote is "+"
I see its a box ship.. Its expensive and should be a little bit better than other ships.. but its something wrong about it..
+++++
Sry for my english
Sure there is a bonus defense cap, but whenever slowed down, tractored, etc, your bonus defense is still higher than a slow Sci vessel like the Recluse (totally the opposite) with the same holds applied.
Also high turn = more damage spread over various facings, but that also depends on the flying pattern of the pilot.
That might be it? ^^
If there are more than one in a team its absoluty Pay to Win.. The another team without these ships have no chance to counter it.
For examble if there is a tournament and a fleet wanna join it and dont have these ships (only Fleet ships) they would have a very big disadvantage.. My Opinion..
Best regards
-2610 Hull
-0.02 Shield Mod
Same Console Layout
Same Turn Rate
-0.05 Impulse Modifier
Likely difference of Eng/Sci Ensign
Same +15 Aux
It's one of those things...Lockbox > Fleet > VA(Zen) > RA
The Recluse is just as good as a Wells, though it fills a more healing oriented niche. With the arc changes and turn rate buff coming in Season 8, I can see more people moving in that direction.
The Vesta is a fine alternative as well. Some of the stats are lower, but you gain a slightly better boff seating, better console layout, and a hangar bay.
Funny thing is, the bugship is the hands down best escort in the game stats wise, but our ideal team setup right now doesn't use any because the builds we're working on are incompatible with the boff layout.
But that's just it...you added in the extras, the 'cheese'. By itself, the Temporal Sci is a good ship. I don't own one, but I've seen plenty in action.
Again though, that's it. The other stuff added is what makes it an issue. Ship to ship, you can field nearly equal level ships in terms of stats. So, in terms of stats it has it's advantages, but isn't the 'end all' of science ships. Instead it really needs to be looked at is the other junk.
Yes, the Temporal Backstep and TIF can be extremely annoying (I personally despise TIF). However, if that's what is causing the feeling of making it 'Pay to win', then isn't the real issue only those things, and not the ship?
A lot of the survivability comes from near escort-level mobility/defense, combined with extremely thick shielding. Furthermore, many science-ship users also run high Aux levels, boosting their healing abilities. The universal Lt Comm also allows the ship to run APO for defense boosting or high-level AtS for extra healing.
Backstep is mere icing on the cake, really. Its 5-minute cooldown in exchange for a console slot renders it fairly balanced. TIF, on the other hand, is plain broken. Still, bear in mind that any ship can mount TIF, despite not getting reduced self-cooldowns.
Leave out TIF and the console, and you will find that while the Wells is superior to other science ships, it can be outperformed in certain scenarios, and the Vesta gives it a run for the money.
Not to mention my Wells is definitely squishy under focus-fire if I do not have my Aux-bias power setting up. Put simply, yes, it is more powerful than most fleet science vessels, but not brokenly so.
I like the wells because it flys like an escort compared to any other science ship, the extra speed provides a higher defensive rating, the extra mobility lets me fly competitively, duck out of firing arck, and position myself properly, instead of drifting around like a target.
4 science consoles and that shield modifier make it tough also.
Wells isnt broken, it is simply the best science ship in the game. Its the JHAS of Science. If it wasnt the best sci in the game, something else would be, and this thread would be about that ship.
There are alot of ways I survive in the wells, even if you tear through a shield facing I can quickly turn to present a different facing to the firing arc, I have polarize hull to break free of tractors and evasive maneuvers to outturn pursuers and tractor beam to assist if needed. I have a jump console that can buy me a precious few seconds and present a clean facing as well.
Most times I do not need my backstep to stay alive, but it's there if I need it, but I try to save it to get extra heals on a friend in need. With a 5 minute cooldown, I don't think there is a problem with it. I think alot of people just need to learn how to deal with a wells and understand healers are going to have full aux and sometimes even running full shield emitters in the science console slots for maximum heals. Taking out their aux, with a well timed tractor and alpha and you can take a wells down, their only option is backstep and once they burn it, they won't have it for the next two subnuke cycles and the next 3 aplha cycles.
EDIT to say: About 3 wells showing up in a premade, if the pilots chose to fly vestas or nebulas, you would still be in a world of hurt, that's 3 subnukes and usually alot of shield heavy cross-healing and 3 sci 2 tac is kinda the optimal team setting AFAIK.
I think the main reason that the Wells is so tough is due to the very high shield modifier. I have one I bought off the exchange and I'll probably get around to trying it out eventually. It seems like a tough little ship.
but vesta and steamrunner are fine :rolleyes:
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
As I understand everybody loves there Wells and for the community its OK to use them.
Thats fine for me, so I can fly my Temporal Sci Ship, without bad conscience.
Furthermore we will continue to use 3 of them in Premade, protected by Fleet Shields and 2 JHAS.
Thanks again for give us the "Carte Blanche" for that
JHAS, on the other hand, is a little problematic, with results going about 50-50 so far. So if you're looking at PvP community disapproval, look at your escorts.
Oh, and don't even think about TIF, as that has an approval rating of merely about 40%.
(All above values are approximate, and may be revised pending further results)
Edit: Oh, and judging by comments, while something solo may be A-OK, stacking something borderline pushes it further into cheesy territory in most people's eyes. So, go ahead and run your stuff, but expect at least some QQ from most people you meet. Especially if you run against pugs.
Ya i kinda left out the special consoles tbh, was just trying to get a pure stat vs stat comparison without the additional fancies
I think if you do not take into accoutn bridge officer layout differences the Recluse might be squishier, one side is way more vulnerable to critical weaponfire because it turns as slow as my grandma, and its much more prone to bonus defense dropping cuz the speed is already so much lower.
My clusie only has to drop 1 impulse point and my bonus defense begins to drop, so i think both have their weaknesses. Dunno. ITs really hard to tell, Recluse can carry shield drones again.
Edit: Good points about turn for shield facings and defence.
Also bug ship only beats Fleet Patrol in turn, if they both had the same turn Fleet Patrol would actually be better, dimishing returns in tactical consoles are real so 5th tactical console slot is more of a curse compared to the extra field gen on a fleet patrol. Fleet Patrol also has more crew to make up for slightly less hull (crew helps with hull repair and subsystem repair), and the 0.01 shield mod difference is neligible, I don't own a bug and don't want one either they are ugly little things. One caveat with what I said may be the higher impulse (it dosen't help defence but sure makes the bug hard to target sometimes). But if you have a tractor beam or two on your team or Viral Matrix, that suddenly becomes trivial.
Edit 2: Number of Crew makes no difference, sorry my bad.
It seems to be the case with the Wells and Recluse. From everything I've seen they are the best in their class but quite a margin. The Vesta has a hanger, sure, but the consoles are next to useless I've found. They are so easily shut off by PSW or even Graviton Beam that I never got much use out of them. The shield drones on their own are quite powerful but I still think the Wells has the edge over the Vesta.
As far as I see it every lock box ship is better than C-Store ship equivelants, if there is one. The fleet ships should be equal but they're not.
Gardiner, Suval, Thran
Korvak, Raketh, Xedar, Zidow
Decis, Vesok
You can't be serious.
Because you don't know how to properly use then doesn't mean they're useless. My aoe heal has save many a people and my pushing polarize hull has saved my TRIBBLE quite often too. Hell I've even gotten kills with the phaser cutter lance.
Don't say something is useless because you suck with it.
"The jhas is totally useless, whenever I fly it I die! I swear, where in the defiant I can stay hidden and not get shot. It's totally better."
Do you even Science Bro?
the time ships are a tough kill
seems like science swhips should have tricks but weak hulls and shields
not the reverse or both
but what i would like to see is like ferengi marauders s time ships or species specific ships
fighting each other
uhh.. you do realize that science ships have lower hull then escorts right? thats why they usually have a higher shield modifier...
do you even play a science ship?
Do you even Science Bro?
itll never be pong, that ball is so op... no matter how hard you smack it... it just keeps coming back!
Do you even Science Bro?
Then we can complain about defensive power creep until they nerf the ball so that it can be destroyed by the paddle.