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Temporal Sci Vessel

c1cer0c1cer0 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
edited May 2013 in PvP Gameplay
Hello,
i fly PVP for more than 2 Years now. Most time on Escort.
And no other Ship in this Game was so hard to kill as the Wells Claas!

I do not mainly talk about the Temporal Backstep (OP !).

Maby I am paranoid but i seems something is broken ? I have no proof for that, but the strange feeling, something is very curious with this Ship.^^

Anyway... the Arena s are full of Temporal Ships, and I am tired of chewing their Shields without scratch there Hull!

I invite everyone to make a "+" in this thread if you agree (or just hate this dam Vessel :) )

Or convince me otherwise ?!


(I am German/English is not my 1. language so I apologize for any spelling error!!!)
Post edited by c1cer0 on
«1

Comments

  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    There isn't anything wrong with the wells... its just a sci ship... Large shield pools is sort of what they do.

    Its a lockbox sci ship... and as such its a sci ship +1. Working as intended.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • kiriseekirisee Member Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I don't think there is anything wrong with my Wells class ship, it performs the job it was designed for quite well. Most sci ships get a better shield mod, so therefore they are easy to setup to shield tank damage, so unless you have a really good alpha strike that can go directly to the hull , you will have some problems taking the ship out.
    "If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
  • falkex3falkex3 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I think, that the ship is an internally calculated differently. I play the game now 2 years but the thing behaves differently than others. It has a shell of 41000 points and you get the feeling shooting at 150000 envelope points. And the shields are also much stronger than on any other ship even though it corresponds to the sign of strength, are an Intrepid. The ship is definitely over Powerd ......

    My vote is "+"
  • zimbilimbimzimbilimbim Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    But the fleet Intrepid has the same stats and is much weaker... and + Temporal backstep + Set bonus is very op... there is a reason why all of the pvp fleets have 3 of them in a group.. and its horrible because they have to many options to get out of danger..

    I see its a box ship.. Its expensive and should be a little bit better than other ships.. but its something wrong about it..

    +++++

    Sry for my english
  • hurleybirdhurleybird Member Posts: 909
    edited May 2013
    The Wells class has the highest shield mod in the game and is also the fastest turning science vessel.
  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The speed is king, not turnrate per se, but pure speed.

    Sure there is a bonus defense cap, but whenever slowed down, tractored, etc, your bonus defense is still higher than a slow Sci vessel like the Recluse (totally the opposite) with the same holds applied.

    Also high turn = more damage spread over various facings, but that also depends on the flying pattern of the pilot.

    That might be it? ^^
    MT - Sad Pandas
  • zimbilimbimzimbilimbim Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    yeah you are right @darkfader1988, but + the special ability and console + BO Layout+ CD reduction i mentioned, is the ship very powerful and there is no need any another sci ships atm.

    If there are more than one in a team its absoluty Pay to Win.. The another team without these ships have no chance to counter it.

    For examble if there is a tournament and a fleet wanna join it and dont have these ships (only Fleet ships) they would have a very big disadvantage.. My Opinion..

    Best regards
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The Fleet Nova does not have access to the same consoles (Tipler for Backstep), admittedly - but otherwise:

    -2610 Hull
    -0.02 Shield Mod
    Same Console Layout
    Same Turn Rate
    -0.05 Impulse Modifier
    Likely difference of Eng/Sci Ensign
    Same +15 Aux

    It's one of those things...Lockbox > Fleet > VA(Zen) > RA
  • hurleybirdhurleybird Member Posts: 909
    edited May 2013
    If there are more than one in a team its absoluty Pay to Win.. The another team without these ships have no chance to counter it.

    The Recluse is just as good as a Wells, though it fills a more healing oriented niche. With the arc changes and turn rate buff coming in Season 8, I can see more people moving in that direction.

    The Vesta is a fine alternative as well. Some of the stats are lower, but you gain a slightly better boff seating, better console layout, and a hangar bay.

    Funny thing is, the bugship is the hands down best escort in the game stats wise, but our ideal team setup right now doesn't use any because the builds we're working on are incompatible with the boff layout.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    yeah you are right @darkfader1988, but + the special ability and console + BO Layout+ CD reduction i mentioned, is the ship very powerful and there is no need any another sci ships atm.

    If there are more than one in a team its absoluty Pay to Win.. The another team without these ships have no chance to counter it.

    For examble if there is a tournament and a fleet wanna join it and dont have these ships (only Fleet ships) they would have a very big disadvantage.. My Opinion..

    Best regards

    But that's just it...you added in the extras, the 'cheese'. By itself, the Temporal Sci is a good ship. I don't own one, but I've seen plenty in action.

    Again though, that's it. The other stuff added is what makes it an issue. Ship to ship, you can field nearly equal level ships in terms of stats. So, in terms of stats it has it's advantages, but isn't the 'end all' of science ships. Instead it really needs to be looked at is the other junk.

    Yes, the Temporal Backstep and TIF can be extremely annoying (I personally despise TIF). However, if that's what is causing the feeling of making it 'Pay to win', then isn't the real issue only those things, and not the ship?
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I personally pilot a Wells on my science character.

    A lot of the survivability comes from near escort-level mobility/defense, combined with extremely thick shielding. Furthermore, many science-ship users also run high Aux levels, boosting their healing abilities. The universal Lt Comm also allows the ship to run APO for defense boosting or high-level AtS for extra healing.

    Backstep is mere icing on the cake, really. Its 5-minute cooldown in exchange for a console slot renders it fairly balanced. TIF, on the other hand, is plain broken. Still, bear in mind that any ship can mount TIF, despite not getting reduced self-cooldowns.

    Leave out TIF and the console, and you will find that while the Wells is superior to other science ships, it can be outperformed in certain scenarios, and the Vesta gives it a run for the money.

    Not to mention my Wells is definitely squishy under focus-fire if I do not have my Aux-bias power setting up. Put simply, yes, it is more powerful than most fleet science vessels, but not brokenly so.
  • pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I dont use my backstep, the console slot is too valuable to fit such a long cooldown that might only save me once in a while, and risk getting killed during the backstep and killed again when I come out of it for -2 points.

    I like the wells because it flys like an escort compared to any other science ship, the extra speed provides a higher defensive rating, the extra mobility lets me fly competitively, duck out of firing arck, and position myself properly, instead of drifting around like a target.

    4 science consoles and that shield modifier make it tough also.


    Wells isnt broken, it is simply the best science ship in the game. Its the JHAS of Science. If it wasnt the best sci in the game, something else would be, and this thread would be about that ship.
  • dummynamedummyname Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I love my wells. I can tell you the way mine is set up it is the little sister of the fleet nebula. It lacks the additional engineer slots that let me fit an RSP on the wells like I did for my nebula, but the enhanced maneuverability along with what I think is the best shield modifier in game, and it more than makes up for that missing skill.

    There are alot of ways I survive in the wells, even if you tear through a shield facing I can quickly turn to present a different facing to the firing arc, I have polarize hull to break free of tractors and evasive maneuvers to outturn pursuers and tractor beam to assist if needed. I have a jump console that can buy me a precious few seconds and present a clean facing as well.

    Most times I do not need my backstep to stay alive, but it's there if I need it, but I try to save it to get extra heals on a friend in need. With a 5 minute cooldown, I don't think there is a problem with it. I think alot of people just need to learn how to deal with a wells and understand healers are going to have full aux and sometimes even running full shield emitters in the science console slots for maximum heals. Taking out their aux, with a well timed tractor and alpha and you can take a wells down, their only option is backstep and once they burn it, they won't have it for the next two subnuke cycles and the next 3 aplha cycles.

    EDIT to say: About 3 wells showing up in a premade, if the pilots chose to fly vestas or nebulas, you would still be in a world of hurt, that's 3 subnukes and usually alot of shield heavy cross-healing and 3 sci 2 tac is kinda the optimal team setting AFAIK.
    24 Hours a day, 365 days a week.
  • logicalspocklogicalspock Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    All the lockbox ships are OP. The Wells and the JHAS are just a bit more OP than the others. The Tholian ships are even more impossible to kill if that is what they are specced for.

    I think the main reason that the Wells is so tough is due to the very high shield modifier. I have one I bought off the exchange and I'll probably get around to trying it out eventually. It seems like a tough little ship.
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    All the lockbox ships are OP. The Wells and the JHAS are just a bit more OP than the others.


    but vesta and steamrunner are fine :rolleyes:
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited May 2013
    I like my wells. I TRIBBLE off people with it.
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
  • c1cer0c1cer0 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Thnx all for the response.
    As I understand everybody loves there Wells and for the community its OK to use them.
    Thats fine for me, so I can fly my Temporal Sci Ship, without bad conscience. :)

    Furthermore we will continue to use 3 of them in Premade, protected by Fleet Shields and 2 JHAS.

    Thanks again for give us the "Carte Blanche" for that ;)
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well, I've been running a survey on PvP stuffs, and preliminary results indicate that about 65% or so of respondents feel that the Wells isn't cheesy or OP. Backstep is more or less fine too, with 72% not having a problem with it, as long as it's without the AoE timestop.

    JHAS, on the other hand, is a little problematic, with results going about 50-50 so far. So if you're looking at PvP community disapproval, look at your escorts.

    Oh, and don't even think about TIF, as that has an approval rating of merely about 40%.

    (All above values are approximate, and may be revised pending further results)

    Edit: Oh, and judging by comments, while something solo may be A-OK, stacking something borderline pushes it further into cheesy territory in most people's eyes. So, go ahead and run your stuff, but expect at least some QQ from most people you meet. Especially if you run against pugs.
  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    yeah you are right @darkfader1988, but + the special ability and console + BO Layout+ CD reduction i mentioned, is the ship very powerful and there is no need any another sci ships atm.

    If there are more than one in a team its absoluty Pay to Win.. The another team without these ships have no chance to counter it.

    For examble if there is a tournament and a fleet wanna join it and dont have these ships (only Fleet ships) they would have a very big disadvantage.. My Opinion..

    Best regards


    Ya i kinda left out the special consoles tbh, was just trying to get a pure stat vs stat comparison without the additional fancies :D
    MT - Sad Pandas
  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    hurleybird wrote: »
    The Recluse is just as good as a Wells, though it fills a more healing oriented niche. With the arc changes and turn rate buff coming in Season 8, I can see more people moving in that direction.

    The Vesta is a fine alternative as well. Some of the stats are lower, but you gain a slightly better boff seating, better console layout, and a hangar bay.

    Funny thing is, the bugship is the hands down best escort in the game stats wise, but our ideal team setup right now doesn't use any because the builds we're working on are incompatible with the boff layout.

    I think if you do not take into accoutn bridge officer layout differences the Recluse might be squishier, one side is way more vulnerable to critical weaponfire because it turns as slow as my grandma, and its much more prone to bonus defense dropping cuz the speed is already so much lower.

    My clusie only has to drop 1 impulse point and my bonus defense begins to drop, so i think both have their weaknesses. Dunno. ITs really hard to tell, Recluse can carry shield drones again.
    MT - Sad Pandas
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  • ryukotsu69ryukotsu69 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I dont know, Just before I ranked to rear admiral I got some z points from dilithum and bought a lock box key, opened and got a wells. Its a good well balanced ship and is a little bit better then my luna class. But Ive def never felt it was over powered. its base hull of 30k isnt to high and I mean I can kinda tank a bit with it but once my shields go down I can die pretty fast. Ive seen other players with crusers and escorts take out targets i had to fight with. Its very well balanced in my opinion, tho I dont pvp very much the couple times i did I didnt really die. But then again im not rich in game and dont have any of the high quality equipment like borg, or macros etc. Also other then my luna its the only admiral lv ship ive ever used.
  • afree100afree100 Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Why does everyone think the Wells class is OP, Vesta and Recluse are a order of magnitude better. Never underestimate the power of shield repair drones, one drone is about the same as a full aux Transfer Shield Strength (over the course of a match) according to my logs. From comparing Recluse and Wells for dedicated healing I can safely say that Vesta with Consoles = Recluse. Wells may have slightly higher tanking but that means very little in an actual match.

    Edit: Good points about turn for shield facings and defence.

    Also bug ship only beats Fleet Patrol in turn, if they both had the same turn Fleet Patrol would actually be better, dimishing returns in tactical consoles are real so 5th tactical console slot is more of a curse compared to the extra field gen on a fleet patrol. Fleet Patrol also has more crew to make up for slightly less hull (crew helps with hull repair and subsystem repair), and the 0.01 shield mod difference is neligible, I don't own a bug and don't want one either they are ugly little things. One caveat with what I said may be the higher impulse (it dosen't help defence but sure makes the bug hard to target sometimes). But if you have a tractor beam or two on your team or Viral Matrix, that suddenly becomes trivial.

    Edit 2: Number of Crew makes no difference, sorry my bad.
    Starfleet M.A.C.O. KDF Honor Guard
  • mdwgardiner1701mdwgardiner1701 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The bottom line is they opened pandora's box with the JHAS. They created a superior escort in all respects and the others were left in the dust.

    It seems to be the case with the Wells and Recluse. From everything I've seen they are the best in their class but quite a margin. The Vesta has a hanger, sure, but the consoles are next to useless I've found. They are so easily shut off by PSW or even Graviton Beam that I never got much use out of them. The shield drones on their own are quite powerful but I still think the Wells has the edge over the Vesta.

    As far as I see it every lock box ship is better than C-Store ship equivelants, if there is one. The fleet ships should be equal but they're not.
    Inner Circle / Special Circumstances
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    afree100 wrote: »
    dimishing returns in tactical consoles are real so 5th tactical console slot is more of a curse....

    You can't be serious.



    The bottom line is they opened pandora's box with the JHAS. They created a superior escort in all respects and the others were left in the dust.

    It seems to be the case with the Wells and Recluse. From everything I've seen they are the best in their class but quite a margin. The Vesta has a hanger, sure, but the consoles are next to useless I've found. They are so easily shut off by PSW or even Graviton Beam that I never got much use out of them. The shield drones on their own are quite powerful but I still think the Wells has the edge over the Vesta.
    .


    Because you don't know how to properly use then doesn't mean they're useless. My aoe heal has save many a people and my pushing polarize hull has saved my TRIBBLE quite often too. Hell I've even gotten kills with the phaser cutter lance.

    Don't say something is useless because you suck with it.

    "The jhas is totally useless, whenever I fly it I die! I swear, where in the defiant I can stay hidden and not get shot. It's totally better."
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • terence12terence12 Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    op is right

    the time ships are a tough kill

    seems like science swhips should have tricks but weak hulls and shields

    not the reverse or both

    but what i would like to see is like ferengi marauders s time ships or species specific ships
    fighting each other
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    terence12 wrote: »
    op is right

    the time ships are a tough kill

    seems like science swhips should have tricks but weak hulls and shields

    not the reverse or both

    but what i would like to see is like ferengi marauders s time ships or species specific ships
    fighting each other

    uhh.. you do realize that science ships have lower hull then escorts right? thats why they usually have a higher shield modifier...

    do you even play a science ship?
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    take the "OP " ship away and the next ship wanted or used will be declared OP..then remove that ship ...and so on till the game turns into pong.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    adrianm63 wrote: »
    take the "OP " ship away and the next ship wanted or used will be declared OP..then remove that ship ...and so on till the game turns into pong.

    itll never be pong, that ball is so op... no matter how hard you smack it... it just keeps coming back!
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • dummynamedummyname Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    itll never be pong, that ball is so op... no matter how hard you smack it... it just keeps coming back!

    Then we can complain about defensive power creep until they nerf the ball so that it can be destroyed by the paddle.
    24 Hours a day, 365 days a week.
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