I have a Klingon General and the only thing that even comes close to a BoP's maneuverability is the Kumari which lets Feds experience "The Electric Slide."
ALL Klingon ships mount cannons and other than the Bortas can maneuver well enough to use them.
Even the Romulan ships I have played in the Beta so far can't maneuver like a BoP. I'd expected the small Warbirds would, but they don't.
I recommend that every Fed make a Klingon. I also recommend that every Klingon log into their Fed Alt and fly that for a week or so, it will keep them thankful for their Klingon ships.
They had a good long run, but I'm seeing that the Klingons will be owned by the Romulans. Even the signature "uncloak on someones aft" will not help if even a D'deridex can BC. The Romulans can also sneak up on the Klingons spawn camp as they have better not as detectable cloaks.
Nope, all that "honorable" behavior from the Klingons will be for not. Maybe the Romulans will be more honorable after they get their paybacks.
My dear God man, what have the Klingon players done to you in PvP?!? In every post I see from you in these forums the levels of resentment towards the KDF that you show are astonishing! What have they done to you to despise them so much?:eek:
Please give me your ingame handle and I'll ask the ones I know and PvP with to cut you some slack. :cool:
Also, there is no such thing as undetectable cloak. It only takes skill points in the right places and player skill in creating a good detecting build. I have no problem seing the KDF BoPs with battlecloak in my Ambassador, I'm not even going to discuss sci. ships and especially the Vesta. But if I go in PvP or Ker'rat as a Fed. I know what to expect and which setup to use, works fine in most situations. The problem is players neglecting cloak detecting skills for more DPS.
And finally, in the words of Mr.T - "I pitty the fool that will BC as I alpha-uncloak on his aft!"
My dear God man, what have the Klingon players done to you in PvP?!? In every post I see from you in these forums the levels of resentment towards the KDF that you show are astonishing! What have they done to you to despise them so much?:eek:
Please give me your ingame handle and I'll ask the ones I know and PvP with to cut you some slack. :cool:
Also, there is no such thing as undetectable cloak. It only takes skill points in the right places and player skill in creating a good detecting build. I have no problem seing the KDF BoPs with battlecloak in my Ambassador, I'm not even going to discuss sci. ships and especially the Vesta. But if I go in PvP or Ker'rat as a Fed. I know what to expect and which setup to use, works fine in most situations. The problem is players neglecting cloak detecting skills for more DPS.
And finally, in the words of Mr.T - "I pitty the fool that will BC as I alpha-uncloak on his aft!"
LOL That's what the Plasma shotgun is for, BoPs uncloaking on my aft.
I actually don't have negative feeling for Klingons. As I said I have a General and fly a Hegta. I am also a motorcycle rider and appreciate a well tuned machine. Klingon ships are well tuned machines. I have enjoyed them from the Negvar to my BoP and have them all.
I just felt that the criticism of the Feds to be well less than appreciative of what powerful ships Cryptic has given the Klingon faction. Would it really hurt to have a fair fight where both ships could BC? I hear the term "Game Balance" bandied about, how can you have balance when one of you can cloak/ break weapons lock and run away and hide/ heal after being brought down to almost death?
In the shows the cloaking device was a very frail and delicate device, how come I can drop a BoP to 10% hull and he can still cloak and run away?
Maybe if they actually balanced it out so the BC only works down to 30% and all cloaks are BC. I don't remember them specifying a cloak as a BC in the shows so I think that's a Cryptic thing.
Anywho sorry if I sound mean when posting. I do try to meter it. Some things just get me mad. I'm sure it's a case of bad apples spoiling the pie in Kerrat that makes me feel this way about the BC.
LOL, if you can't destroy a BOP that is Battlecloaking on you in combat, you need help. For a BOP user to do that in combat is the equivalent of flashing a huge red highlight with SHOOT ME PLZ FOR LOLZ and a very hasty death.
Even if a BOP user only uses the Battlecloak once out of weapons range and ensuring that it's safe to do so (because Torps still track regardless with cloaks activated), then they are using the same technique normal, competent cloak users do.
I really can't wait for the Romulans to arrive on Holodeck as a playable faction. I am SO eager to blast transferred Feddies using Battlecloaks like eating Pez candy in battle.
It's going to be hilarious when mainline Feddies discover that cloaks aren't as OP as they always assumed it to be.
Battle cloak is for hit&run tactics, good for solo play in Kerrat and maybe for PvP capture & hold. For PvE - completely useless.
Battle cloak is for ships with the only focus on alpha strike every minute with Beam Overload / THY - for everything else the damage bonus is just too short. The problem for BoPs is that this is the only thing they can acutally shine - in everything else a Raptor/Destroyer will do better.
I don't think that battle cloak on romulan ships will have any impact rather than that maybe some Klingons will specialize in sensors and decloaking science abilities will becoming more popular.
I have a Klingon General and the only thing that even comes close to a BoP's maneuverability is the Kumari which lets Feds experience "The Electric Slide."
If a BoP had 15.000 more hull, 0.2 more shields, 5 foreward weapons slots, 5 boffs, wing cannons and optionally 5 tac consoles instead of 3 (lol), I would agree.
The only ship class where Klingon ships are better than feds are their cruisers, which actually are as strong as a cruiser should be. No doubt here )even as a Klingon), I find fed cruisers too weak in general (escpacially the Galaxy class is a joke).
However, when comparing fed escorts with kling raptors, the fed get far more and better options. The only raptor on par with fed escort is the fleet somraw raptor. Nevertheless, no raptor has five tac consoles on klingon side, while on fed side there are 2 escorts.
And I did not even mentioned science ships and hybrids like escort carriers where Klingon lacks behind again.
[QUOTE=thlaylierah;9353421 just felt that the criticism of the Feds to be well less than appreciative of what powerful ships Cryptic has given the Klingon faction. Would it really hurt to have a fair fight where both ships could BC? I hear the term "Game Balance" bandied about, how can you have balance when one of you can cloak/ break weapons lock and run away and hide/ heal after being brought down to almost death?
In the shows the cloaking device was a very frail and delicate device, how come I can drop a BoP to 10% hull and he can still cloak and run away?
Maybe if they actually balanced it out so the BC only works down to 30% and all cloaks are BC. I don't remember them specifying a cloak as a BC in the shows so I think that's a Cryptic thing.
[/QUOTE]
This is the one thing that I tend to roll my eyes about when it comes to BC in PvP... It gets very frustrating when no one wants to drop cloak. I mean if you are a proper strategist you are NOT going to give your opponent the advantage of knowing where you are unless you are 100% certain you will have the upper hand or you are daft.
The other thing that drives me crazy is when the Klinks cloak and run off and basically never A) Actually hurt me enough for me to care and Never really die themselves because they spend more time running than fighting. At that point it is just annoying without being worthwhile. This gets muuuch worse when you have something like a 1K Day ship which can tank a bit and I do not even want to imagine a D'deridex...
Of course the worst of that lot are those who feel they won something by running away LOL... If you cannot kill me then you have not won anything sorry to say.
I do so love decloaking my Bortasqu' on some unsuspecting victim and blowing them away in all of a two to three clicks though. They never really expect a Bortasqu' LOL.
But I digress... Romulans MUST have BC because it is 100% their nature. They hit and run, attack ONLY when it is to their advantage, and never just stand and fight. This is what the Klingons hate about them so much.
It depends how well the JHAS tanked. It is very easy to self gimp a ship by not knowing the game mechanic and using TRIBBLE equipment.
I doubt that an odyssey cruiser with EptS-X and Elite Fleet shields, Aux2SIF3, HE, TTS and 2x TT, BFI doffs and RSP will be outtanked by an BoP. Especially not, because any direct hull damage shred the BoP in seconds. Ever got a combination of mutiple plasma procs with someone using DEMIII and FAWIII?
Speed tanking? Yeah, with 2x AtP-O the BoP can maybe stand some time. But the defense/hit curve flattens the higher the defense rating. If the Oddy retain full speed and additionally got 3 romulan Boffs for defense, maybe add even Aegis 2 set bonus, it will be able to get a defense score of 100.
reason I say bop can tank better then a oddy ive been to karat and see every fed ship fire on one bop and for the sake of all of us could not kill it when you would think you have it shields down bam there back up to full same for hull
reason I say bop can tank better then a oddy ive been to karat and see every fed ship fire on one bop and for the sake of all of us could not kill it when you would think you have it shields down bam there back up to full same for hull
The reason is, that the normal fed player in kerrat is up for PvM and spec and equip their boats respectively. However, since the chance to win the scenario against an superiority of 1:5 is quite low, most Klingons are up for PvP. Escpacially, because they spawn mostly surrounded by 5 fed ships per Klingon player.
In addition, most of the feds I see in Kerrat are broadside cruisers. In Kerrat, there is even a good chance to tank 5 fed cruisers with a shuttle for minutes, because of the lack of PvP experience/equipment/spec.
If there had been one competent sci captain using sub nuke + "insert random science magic here" + VM/tractor, the BoP would have died in 0.5 secs.
I have a Klingon General and the only thing that even comes close to a BoP's maneuverability is the Kumari which lets Feds experience "The Electric Slide."
ALL Klingon ships mount cannons and other than the Bortas can maneuver well enough to use them.
Even the Romulan ships I have played in the Beta so far can't maneuver like a BoP. I'd expected the small Warbirds would, but they don't.
I recommend that every Fed make a Klingon. I also recommend that every Klingon log into their Fed Alt and fly that for a week or so, it will keep them thankful for their Klingon ships.
They had a good long run, but I'm seeing that the Klingons will be owned by the Romulans. Even the signature "uncloak on someones aft" will not help if even a D'deridex can BC. The Romulans can also sneak up on the Klingons spawn camp as they have better not as detectable cloaks.
Nope, all that "honorable" behavior from the Klingons will be for not. Maybe the Romulans will be more honorable after they get their paybacks.
You just sound bitter. Cloaks do not help spawn camping other than to allow KDF players to sneak in past the turrets and attack wimpy feds hiding in their spawn. Feds already can return this favor with Tac Escort Retro. Spawn camping comes from weak opponents who cant keep the fight in the middle of the map because they suck.
Furthermore, SCI toons see through cloaks just fine. When feds bring one or two of them to the fight they do much, much better. I don't have access to the closed beta but it doesn't sound like Romulans have good Science ships. KDF doesn't either, but they have one option in the Gorn Vessels. I'm not convinced that a Romulan PUG would roll a KDF PUG. Do all these Romulan cruisers mount DHC's? If not than an underpowered beam boat with a turn rate of 5.5 can decloak on my aft all day long. I still have 20 secs to turn around and TB/GW/VM him to keep him from cloaking away. And if you think you'll be cloaking when your focus fired on . . . well your in for a rude awakening
Every ship with a cloaking device in-game, Defiant Retrofit and Galaxy X included, should at least have a canon cloak. That's a "Battle Cloak." The other thing they call a cloaking device is a joke and a fraud. This is why introducing another playable race with canon cloaking technology on nearly every ship is so infuriating and insulting.
Also, the only ship using an "Enhanced Battle Cloak" should be Chang's B'Rel retrofit. It wasn't a console so Cryptic couldn't straight up give it to the Feds in a lockbox. Instead, they created this T?varo Light Warbird Retrofit with a flight plan directly over the border. Disgusting.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
Every ship with a cloaking device in-game, Defiant Retrofit and Galaxy X included, should at least have a canon cloak. That's a "Battle Cloak." The other thing they call a cloaking device is a joke and a fraud. This is why introducing another playable race with canon cloaking technology on nearly every ship is so infuriating and insulting.
Also, the only ship using an "Enhanced Battle Cloak" should be Chang's B'Rel retrofit. It wasn't a console so Cryptic couldn't straight up give it to the Feds in a lockbox. Instead, they created this T?varo Light Warbird Retrofit with a flight plan directly over the border. Disgusting.
Meh, T'varo looks to have an escort boff setup. The beauty of the B'rel was that you could utlize its universal boffs and dump sci and heals on a cloaked torp boat that only decloaked for 3 seconds. It doesn't look like that will be an option for the Romulan version. As a pure torp boat, B'rel damage is lacking to say the least.
Ker'rat is not a good way to judge PvP in any form or fashion. Feds that go to Ker'rat almost always go to grind. Klinks go with the intent to kill them. Either way, neither side is truly spec'd for PvP.
My dear God man, what have the Klingon players done to you in PvP?!? In every post I see from you in these forums the levels of resentment towards the KDF that you show are astonishing! What have they done to you to despise them so much?:eek:
Please give me your ingame handle and I'll ask the ones I know and PvP with to cut you some slack. :cool:
Also, there is no such thing as undetectable cloak. It only takes skill points in the right places and player skill in creating a good detecting build. I have no problem seing the KDF BoPs with battlecloak in my Ambassador, I'm not even going to discuss sci. ships and especially the Vesta. But if I go in PvP or Ker'rat as a Fed. I know what to expect and which setup to use, works fine in most situations. The problem is players neglecting cloak detecting skills for more DPS.
And finally, in the words of Mr.T - "I pitty the fool that will BC as I alpha-uncloak on his aft!"
He has been much abused at times in both pvp and the forums.
That may be the cradle of his dislike.
Frankly all can cry Doom
I do not care I still love my KDF and it upcoming growth is a pleasant event.
Bring your new Romulan toys, May expansion.
They are not immortal and will die as debris like any other in pvp.
No, the Bird-of-Prey is not dead, and it's for one simple reason: Power levels. The main difference between the singularity cores and warp cores I've seen on Tribble is that singularity cores, though it's true they give you some extra abilities, actually NERF your power levels. A good 25 power is slashed off of your ship to compensate for those abilities you get, which is 25 power you could be putting into weapons, shields, engines, or aux. Sure, you can spread it around to try and compensate, but the fact of the matter is that if you have, say, a T'Varo retrofit against an identically equipped B'rel retrofit, the T'Varo will always either be slower, have lower shields, weaker abilities, or just not hit as hard.
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
I tried my Rom/KDF in a BoP to compare to the Mogai at T3.
The BoP is far, far better. The difference of 40(!) power is huge, and the BoP turns much better and has universal slots. And the EPTS changes on Tribble make the Mogai even worse because it has only 1 engineer BO.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
and the BoP turns much better and has universal slots.
Well that's kind of obvious. The Mogai's an escort/raptor type equivalent. BoPs have turn rates over 20. All of them. Nothing can compare to that. The biggest, bulkiest BoP turns better than a JHAS. It's just a different class of ship altogether.
Comments
My dear God man, what have the Klingon players done to you in PvP?!? In every post I see from you in these forums the levels of resentment towards the KDF that you show are astonishing! What have they done to you to despise them so much?:eek:
Please give me your ingame handle and I'll ask the ones I know and PvP with to cut you some slack. :cool:
Also, there is no such thing as undetectable cloak. It only takes skill points in the right places and player skill in creating a good detecting build. I have no problem seing the KDF BoPs with battlecloak in my Ambassador, I'm not even going to discuss sci. ships and especially the Vesta. But if I go in PvP or Ker'rat as a Fed. I know what to expect and which setup to use, works fine in most situations. The problem is players neglecting cloak detecting skills for more DPS.
And finally, in the words of Mr.T - "I pitty the fool that will BC as I alpha-uncloak on his aft!"
lololololololololololoololol
system Lord Baal is dead
LOL That's what the Plasma shotgun is for, BoPs uncloaking on my aft.
I actually don't have negative feeling for Klingons. As I said I have a General and fly a Hegta. I am also a motorcycle rider and appreciate a well tuned machine. Klingon ships are well tuned machines. I have enjoyed them from the Negvar to my BoP and have them all.
I just felt that the criticism of the Feds to be well less than appreciative of what powerful ships Cryptic has given the Klingon faction. Would it really hurt to have a fair fight where both ships could BC? I hear the term "Game Balance" bandied about, how can you have balance when one of you can cloak/ break weapons lock and run away and hide/ heal after being brought down to almost death?
In the shows the cloaking device was a very frail and delicate device, how come I can drop a BoP to 10% hull and he can still cloak and run away?
Maybe if they actually balanced it out so the BC only works down to 30% and all cloaks are BC. I don't remember them specifying a cloak as a BC in the shows so I think that's a Cryptic thing.
Anywho sorry if I sound mean when posting. I do try to meter it. Some things just get me mad. I'm sure it's a case of bad apples spoiling the pie in Kerrat that makes me feel this way about the BC.
Even if a BOP user only uses the Battlecloak once out of weapons range and ensuring that it's safe to do so (because Torps still track regardless with cloaks activated), then they are using the same technique normal, competent cloak users do.
I really can't wait for the Romulans to arrive on Holodeck as a playable faction. I am SO eager to blast transferred Feddies using Battlecloaks like eating Pez candy in battle.
It's going to be hilarious when mainline Feddies discover that cloaks aren't as OP as they always assumed it to be.
Battle cloak is for hit&run tactics, good for solo play in Kerrat and maybe for PvP capture & hold. For PvE - completely useless.
Battle cloak is for ships with the only focus on alpha strike every minute with Beam Overload / THY - for everything else the damage bonus is just too short. The problem for BoPs is that this is the only thing they can acutally shine - in everything else a Raptor/Destroyer will do better.
I don't think that battle cloak on romulan ships will have any impact rather than that maybe some Klingons will specialize in sensors and decloaking science abilities will becoming more popular.
If a BoP had 15.000 more hull, 0.2 more shields, 5 foreward weapons slots, 5 boffs, wing cannons and optionally 5 tac consoles instead of 3 (lol), I would agree.
The only ship class where Klingon ships are better than feds are their cruisers, which actually are as strong as a cruiser should be. No doubt here )even as a Klingon), I find fed cruisers too weak in general (escpacially the Galaxy class is a joke).
However, when comparing fed escorts with kling raptors, the fed get far more and better options. The only raptor on par with fed escort is the fleet somraw raptor. Nevertheless, no raptor has five tac consoles on klingon side, while on fed side there are 2 escorts.
And I did not even mentioned science ships and hybrids like escort carriers where Klingon lacks behind again.
system Lord Baal is dead
In the shows the cloaking device was a very frail and delicate device, how come I can drop a BoP to 10% hull and he can still cloak and run away?
Maybe if they actually balanced it out so the BC only works down to 30% and all cloaks are BC. I don't remember them specifying a cloak as a BC in the shows so I think that's a Cryptic thing.
[/QUOTE]
This is the one thing that I tend to roll my eyes about when it comes to BC in PvP... It gets very frustrating when no one wants to drop cloak. I mean if you are a proper strategist you are NOT going to give your opponent the advantage of knowing where you are unless you are 100% certain you will have the upper hand or you are daft.
The other thing that drives me crazy is when the Klinks cloak and run off and basically never A) Actually hurt me enough for me to care and
Of course the worst of that lot are those who feel they won something by running away LOL... If you cannot kill me then you have not won anything sorry to say.
I do so love decloaking my Bortasqu' on some unsuspecting victim and blowing them away in all of a two to three clicks though. They never really expect a Bortasqu' LOL.
But I digress... Romulans MUST have BC because it is 100% their nature. They hit and run, attack ONLY when it is to their advantage, and never just stand and fight. This is what the Klingons hate about them so much.
I have seen shuttles tanking better then a JHAS. Does that mean a shuttle is stronger than a JHAS? Please nerf shuttles. :rolleyes:
if I saw that hacking would come to mind
system Lord Baal is dead
It depends how well the JHAS tanked. It is very easy to self gimp a ship by not knowing the game mechanic and using TRIBBLE equipment.
I doubt that an odyssey cruiser with EptS-X and Elite Fleet shields, Aux2SIF3, HE, TTS and 2x TT, BFI doffs and RSP will be outtanked by an BoP. Especially not, because any direct hull damage shred the BoP in seconds. Ever got a combination of mutiple plasma procs with someone using DEMIII and FAWIII?
Speed tanking? Yeah, with 2x AtP-O the BoP can maybe stand some time. But the defense/hit curve flattens the higher the defense rating. If the Oddy retain full speed and additionally got 3 romulan Boffs for defense, maybe add even Aegis 2 set bonus, it will be able to get a defense score of 100.
system Lord Baal is dead
The reason is, that the normal fed player in kerrat is up for PvM and spec and equip their boats respectively. However, since the chance to win the scenario against an superiority of 1:5 is quite low, most Klingons are up for PvP. Escpacially, because they spawn mostly surrounded by 5 fed ships per Klingon player.
In addition, most of the feds I see in Kerrat are broadside cruisers. In Kerrat, there is even a good chance to tank 5 fed cruisers with a shuttle for minutes, because of the lack of PvP experience/equipment/spec.
If there had been one competent sci captain using sub nuke + "insert random science magic here" + VM/tractor, the BoP would have died in 0.5 secs.
You just sound bitter. Cloaks do not help spawn camping other than to allow KDF players to sneak in past the turrets and attack wimpy feds hiding in their spawn. Feds already can return this favor with Tac Escort Retro. Spawn camping comes from weak opponents who cant keep the fight in the middle of the map because they suck.
Furthermore, SCI toons see through cloaks just fine. When feds bring one or two of them to the fight they do much, much better. I don't have access to the closed beta but it doesn't sound like Romulans have good Science ships. KDF doesn't either, but they have one option in the Gorn Vessels. I'm not convinced that a Romulan PUG would roll a KDF PUG. Do all these Romulan cruisers mount DHC's? If not than an underpowered beam boat with a turn rate of 5.5 can decloak on my aft all day long. I still have 20 secs to turn around and TB/GW/VM him to keep him from cloaking away. And if you think you'll be cloaking when your focus fired on . . . well your in for a rude awakening
Also, the only ship using an "Enhanced Battle Cloak" should be Chang's B'Rel retrofit. It wasn't a console so Cryptic couldn't straight up give it to the Feds in a lockbox. Instead, they created this T?varo Light Warbird Retrofit with a flight plan directly over the border. Disgusting.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Meh, T'varo looks to have an escort boff setup. The beauty of the B'rel was that you could utlize its universal boffs and dump sci and heals on a cloaked torp boat that only decloaked for 3 seconds. It doesn't look like that will be an option for the Romulan version. As a pure torp boat, B'rel damage is lacking to say the least.
Considering the limited access that shuttles have to BOFF powers, I'm pretty sure this all just hyperbole.
He has been much abused at times in both pvp and the forums.
That may be the cradle of his dislike.
Frankly all can cry Doom
I do not care I still love my KDF and it upcoming growth is a pleasant event.
Bring your new Romulan toys, May expansion.
They are not immortal and will die as debris like any other in pvp.
R.I.P
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
The BoP is far, far better. The difference of 40(!) power is huge, and the BoP turns much better and has universal slots. And the EPTS changes on Tribble make the Mogai even worse because it has only 1 engineer BO.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Well that's kind of obvious. The Mogai's an escort/raptor type equivalent. BoPs have turn rates over 20. All of them. Nothing can compare to that. The biggest, bulkiest BoP turns better than a JHAS. It's just a different class of ship altogether.