Most ships are worth the effort to get for the extra console. But it would all depend on what you are flying now and your profession. I captained the Tactical Escort, and the Fleet version gives me an extra tac console - so yeah its worth it. What hassle are you referring to? Meet some friends in game, join their fleet, contribute some resources and pick up gear.
The regular ships are fine. Some of the Mirror Universe variants are actually pretty decent.
If you want to spend money for a superior ship, the C-Store ships are quite valid to stick with. The advantage with them is that once purchased, you can claim them for every character you have for that faction.
Fleet Ships are a bit different. They're supposed to be the best for most parts, and a few are upgrades from the C-Store versions. Some of the Fleet Ships that have high ranked C-Store predecessors allow you to purchase the Fleet version for 20k fleet credits and 1 fleet ship module. Otherwise, a Fleet Ship costs 20k fleet credits and 4 fleet ship modules, which is nothing to brush off, considering that it is only for that character and not an account unlock.
Fleet Ships in general have very small upgrades from the C-Store variants. It's up to you if its worth that cost. IMO, it's not a bad thing if you only roll around with 1 character. But if you're an Altaholic, you have to watch out because Fleet Ship costs will mount quickly.
No, fleet ships are not worth it. 20 sollars and tens of thousands of fleet credits for nothing very much. That's one of the reasons nobody uses them.
And remember you need to beg your fleet for their gracious permission to buy one too. They may refuse, or charge you another 20 bucks of dilithium or whatever. It does not say that in the description, so you've been warned.
Some Fleet ships are actually worth it, like the Klingon Tor'khat, which basically is like a HEAVY Destroyer that has firepower rivaling that of Escorts, but it has a ton better survivability.
Not really hear much more on the KDF side, except debate if the Hoh'SuS might be a good ship due to the 2 LTC Universal on top of the Commander Universal.
On the Fed side, many people really are impressed with the Fleet Defiant with her 5 Tactical slots.
So these alone are worth the $20.
Now if you got existing C-store ships with corresponding Fleet Upgrades, if you get access, buying a single Fleet Module for a 10th console slot isn't a bad deal.
As for the other ships, nothing really stands out unless you are the type who has a particular ship you want to fly at end-game.
So all in all, it's not bad, but nothing really to jump up and go after.
No, fleet ships are not worth it. 20 sollars and tens of thousands of fleet credits for nothing very much. That's one of the reasons nobody uses them.
And remember you need to beg your fleet for their gracious permission to buy one too. They may refuse, or charge you another 20 bucks of dilithium or whatever. It does not say that in the description, so you've been warned.
shouldnt be an issue if you activily contribute, i wouldn't stay in any fleet that had me ask premission, not when ive donated well over 2 million dilitium alone in the last 3 months
No, fleet ships are not worth it. 20 sollars and tens of thousands of fleet credits for nothing very much. That's one of the reasons nobody uses them.
And remember you need to beg your fleet for their gracious permission to buy one too. They may refuse, or charge you another 20 bucks of dilithium or whatever. It does not say that in the description, so you've been warned.
What? I suggest you find a new fleet if they treat you like that. 20k fleet credits is so easy to get its just not funny. I have several millions of credits not used and we have enough ship requisitions for everyone in our fleet. "nobody uses them" ??? What game are you playing - this made me laugh :rolleyes:
What? I suggest you find a new fleet if they treat you like that. 20k fleet credits is so easy to get its just not funny. I have several millions of credits not used and we have enough ship requisitions for everyone in our fleet. "nobody uses them" ??? What game are you playing - this made me laugh :rolleyes:
All fleets are the same. Go to roster and look in permissions. If you not got can buy from fleet provisions you can't get a ship. This is default for all fleets I ever been in. Want a ship? Well then make a big fuss in fleet chat about how you deserve a promotion. In other words beg for it. That's if you got a fleet where the leader ever bothers to show up.
Oh, and then you got to buy the thing you need to get the ship. That's 50,000 dilithium and whatever else please. What, the ship isn't worth another 50 bucks? Fleet ships are a waste of time, same as everything fleet.
i wish they didnt TRIBBLE up the fleet corsair..
i dunno why they figured it would be a better science ship instead of an engineer ship..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
If you have the tier-5 zen store version, they are worth it because they only cost 1 module, plus the fleet credits. If not....well, as much as I love my Fleet Saber refit, I really wish I had saved those modules for something that has a tier 5 equivalent. I already have the zen store armitage, excelsior refit and defiant refit, which would have, agaisnt all logic, cost less than the fleet saber refit (despite also owning the gladius, since it does not count for the discount)
i wish they didnt TRIBBLE up the fleet corsair..
i dunno why they figured it would be a better science ship instead of an engineer ship..
For me it is completely the other way around: Making the setup of the fleet corsair different from the base version is much more interesting than base version + something. There are more than enough engineering cruisers around.
I wouldn't have spend the modules on a tenth console, but it's rather the unique setup that made the buy for me.
lots of engineer cruisers maybe, but not many with hangers..
what engineer carrier is there..
you got the mirror voquv.. it has 2 engineering boffs, but still a commander science..
the karfi, it has a commander science too..
the recluse can be an engineer carrier, and only cause of an uni boff.. its really low on tac tho, only one ensign.. so you lose out on alot of dps if you use that uni for engineer..
the JH heavy escort carrier i suppose could be engineer carrier.. but its expensive. and you would need to have 3 engineer boffs.. no commander.
the JH dreadnought is tac.
if they would have left the fleet corsair alone with the boffs being engineer commander and lt commander.. it would be perfect for engineers.
but they switched it with science.. for no reason..
could have at least made it universal..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
My point was just to find out if it is something to invest on....I play not that much, and while I enjoy to go around spending time with other people in the kin, it still requires time to gather resources and such...if you play 24/7 it is not a big deal a couple of extra hours; but if you are like me, a couple of hours a week is all that you get
I use a tac, at the moment I am flying the free ship that I've got from the anniversary, but as soon as I get my last 5 levels, I will have either the armitage or the Kumari, so unless there is a ship that would give me a better deal than either of them, I can gladly pass
should look at the price of what you are looking for, the fleet modules are bloody expensive these days on the market, getting the ec and fleet marks is no means a quick feat either.
1 console upgrade and a few thousand extra hp, to me is not worth the upgrade for the trouble you have to go through to get it. Fleet weapons on the other hand, i would love to get my hands on these but i have had nothing but bad luck with fleets in the past, so i doubt a fleet will just let me join to get the items and leave though because it would drastically increase my ability to be all the more dangerous in game.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
should look at the price of what you are looking for, the fleet modules are bloody expensive these days on the market, getting the ec and fleet marks is no means a quick feat either.
1 console upgrade and a few thousand extra hp, to me is not worth the upgrade for the trouble you have to go through to get it. Fleet weapons on the other hand, i would love to get my hands on these but i have had nothing but bad luck with fleets in the past, so i doubt a fleet will just let me join to get the items and leave though because it would drastically increase my ability to be all the more dangerous in game.
Fleet modules are indeed expensive and with the price of zen going up (using Dil as the currency) it's even more so. It took me a month to save up for 5 modules and that was when dil was at 90-1.
If you've had bad luck, try Shadow House/Fleet or SWAT, both fleets are decent, from my experience.
Even at 8k per day with a 120 Exchange rate the average player can make 2,000 Zen per month just by playing an hour a day. So you can get a free $20.00 ship each month, or get a 50% discount on a $20.00 ship every 2 weeks. It's not exactly expensive.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I have to say that I quite like my Fleet Neg'Var Heavy Battle Cruiser.
1 ensign Eng made Uni was a very important reason for my purchase.
I now hold Tactical Team 1 and 2 on my cruiser. For PvP this might be useless, but frankly I don't do endgame PvP at the moment so it is not important for me.
1 character has a fleet Neg'Var, another has a regular Neg'Var and to be honest I trully miss my 2nd Tactical Team now.
Many people can give advice... But it is up to the player looking for a new ship to determine if a ship is worth the trouble
Even at 8k per day with a 120 Exchange rate the average player can make 2,000 Zen per month just by playing an hour a day. So you can get a free $20.00 ship each month, or get a 50% discount on a $20.00 ship every 2 weeks. It's not exactly expensive.
that depends what you mean by expensive. one persons expensive is another persons cheap. i dont have hours to throw at the game.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Unless you are a relatively new player, what PVP map or STF would you use a Fleet ship in that you haven't run enough times already to have caused a massive subspace rift by repeated use of your warp engines upon entering or exiting?
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
Unless you are a relatively new player, what PVP map or STF would you use a Fleet ship in that you haven't run enough times already to have caused a massive subspace rift by repeated use of your warp engines upon entering or exiting?
It wouldn't hurt us to see Shantytown become that noble sacrifice. :P
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
All fleets are the same. Go to roster and look in permissions. If you not got can buy from fleet provisions you can't get a ship. This is default for all fleets I ever been in. Want a ship? Well then make a big fuss in fleet chat about how you deserve a promotion. In other words beg for it. That's if you got a fleet where the leader ever bothers to show up.
Oh, and then you got to buy the thing you need to get the ship. That's 50,000 dilithium and whatever else please. What, the ship isn't worth another 50 bucks? Fleet ships are a waste of time, same as everything fleet.
I have to agree with the others, in that you have obviously never been in a decent fleet. In our Fleet you just need to get past a short probation period as a recruit, and then get a automatic promotion to our basic rank that allows full access to the store.
If you have put in the work to get the fleet credits then you are fully welcome to spend them however you want. As ultimately to our fleet, a Shipyard provision that is turned into a ship, and thus used to help the player and fleet earn more materials is a better investment then hoarding the provisions.
that depends what you mean by expensive. one persons expensive is another persons cheap. i dont have hours to throw at the game.
You can make 8k in about an hour. So if you have 45-90 minutes a day then it's quite cheap. And even if you can't get everything you want completely free you can certainly get it for a substantial discount. So if you can only play 30 minutes a day and only earn 4ik Dilithium you can still buy 2 Fleet modules for free each month. That means a new ship at 50% off each month or a new ship completely free every 2 months.
There's not that many free games where you can just play and get whatever you want for free over time. Even when STO was Subscription you still needed to buy things from the C-Store and there was no Dilithium Exchange - you paid full price for everything on top of your Sub.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Forgot to mention that I am a lifetimer, so I get zen as monthly allowance; that's why I was asking for suggestions about the fleet ships vs what I can get at the store. So far I didn't put a dime in for the ships (unless you consider the uber expense in teh beginning, when I spent 300 dollars for the membership and 80 for the collector's edition of the game...at that time it was not free).
Plus, as mirrorchaos, I do not have time to spend for harvesting resources; in all the MMO that I play, I usually leave crafting aside, because I never found a game that would push me to grind resources, to get a specific item; more or less crafting is a side branch of an mmo, made to increase economy, instead than being really useful for the toon that you play (at least for me). I play maybe 2 hours a week lately, so unless something in the fleet shipyard is really beating what is in the c-store; I wouldn't really spend that much time with it.
I think many of the KDF fleet variants are worth the money.
I have yet to come across any hardcore KDF fleet that are charging thier members for the right to purchase. Honestly Im a little baffled why any tactions fleet would charge thier own members for such a right.
Invited guests possibly
Complete strangers most likely but humilty should keep prices realistic.
No, fleet ships are not worth it. 20 sollars and tens of thousands of fleet credits for nothing very much. That's one of the reasons nobody uses them.
And remember you need to beg your fleet for their gracious permission to buy one too. They may refuse, or charge you another 20 bucks of dilithium or whatever. It does not say that in the description, so you've been warned.
Speak for yourself, if you already own the c-store ship it's 5 million EC and 20k fleet credits - also known as chump change.
If you don't own the c-store ship, then it's 20m. A bit of a ripoff
For ships you already own T5 c-store versions of and already like? Heck yeah. 5-6 million for a 10% stat boost and an extra console is well worth it (you'd spend more than that just on purple-quality gear).
For ships that will cost you the full 4 consoles? Now we're getting expensive and there are only few ships worth that price (Klingon side mostly). Other than those few, mostly you do this for RP purposes, not for stats.
Most of the time your 9-console ship is close enough and still fully dangerous. The Fleet upgrade is just 'something extra,' not mandatory.
Yeah, fleet ships aren't mandatory. But they can help you get through STFs a little bit faster, since they are a bit stronger. As people mentioned before, if you have the C-Store variant, then its only 20k fleet credit and one fleet ship module. Since you're a lifer and you get 500 zen a month, you can spend your stipend on a fleet ship module and bam, there's your new ship. If you don't have the C-Store version, then its either 4 months of zen stipend, 20 mil EC, or spend an extra $15 bucks to get the other modules. Whether you want to do that or not is something I won't try and touch on.
I've been in a major fleet for a while, and they have generally open access to the fleet store. all they require is you're active and you contribute to the fleet. Since you have to contribute anyway to get fleet credits, its a win-win situation. I have not seen a fleet on any of my toons that requires crazy privileges to get fleet store access. All I've been asked to do is contribute, and in return, I can get a fleet ship. I spend a small amount of money every so often in the game for extra bank slots, outfits, Master Keys (b/c I'm a dope), and I spend the last 500 on a fleet ship module to save for later.
Things to know about fleet ships: They have higher hull strength, an extra console, slightly better shield modifier, and their BOFF seating is comparable to the C-Store retrofit version, just without the bonus console. They can use the bonus console, however, if you have the C-store version. As far as fleets, just do some research. Ask questions, most people are honest. I can't say they all are, obviously, but most will be helpful. Don't go in a fleet that demands you pay them EC to stay in, because that's just stupid. I hope this helps you make a decision on whether you think fleet ships are worth getting or not.
TL;DR- Use common sense, find a good fleet, use zen wisely.
Just wondering if there is any ship that is worth the hassle to collect credits and resources, compared to the ones on the Cstore
i bought the armitage heavy cruiser so i could et the defense torp and then got the fleet version for added hull 10% extra shields and the scinece console IM VERY happy compared to the last version.
Comments
Do you STF or PvP?
If Yes:
Deffo worth the little extra you get from it.
if No:
Na... not really.
Actually... You could make a switch-case out of that:
<?
$userDoesSTForPvP = "";
switch($userDoesSTForPvP) {
case "yes":
echo "Might be a good idea to get a fleet ship";
break;
case "no":
echo "No real need to get one, and waste money";
break;
default:
echo "How can you not know if you're doing STF or PvP?";
break;
}
?>
There... completely random addition to my post, but it was worth it.
If you NEED a fleet ship to pass an elite stf = you suck and should work on improving.
If you want to spend money for a superior ship, the C-Store ships are quite valid to stick with. The advantage with them is that once purchased, you can claim them for every character you have for that faction.
Fleet Ships are a bit different. They're supposed to be the best for most parts, and a few are upgrades from the C-Store versions. Some of the Fleet Ships that have high ranked C-Store predecessors allow you to purchase the Fleet version for 20k fleet credits and 1 fleet ship module. Otherwise, a Fleet Ship costs 20k fleet credits and 4 fleet ship modules, which is nothing to brush off, considering that it is only for that character and not an account unlock.
Fleet Ships in general have very small upgrades from the C-Store variants. It's up to you if its worth that cost. IMO, it's not a bad thing if you only roll around with 1 character. But if you're an Altaholic, you have to watch out because Fleet Ship costs will mount quickly.
And remember you need to beg your fleet for their gracious permission to buy one too. They may refuse, or charge you another 20 bucks of dilithium or whatever. It does not say that in the description, so you've been warned.
Not really hear much more on the KDF side, except debate if the Hoh'SuS might be a good ship due to the 2 LTC Universal on top of the Commander Universal.
On the Fed side, many people really are impressed with the Fleet Defiant with her 5 Tactical slots.
So these alone are worth the $20.
Now if you got existing C-store ships with corresponding Fleet Upgrades, if you get access, buying a single Fleet Module for a 10th console slot isn't a bad deal.
As for the other ships, nothing really stands out unless you are the type who has a particular ship you want to fly at end-game.
So all in all, it's not bad, but nothing really to jump up and go after.
shouldnt be an issue if you activily contribute, i wouldn't stay in any fleet that had me ask premission, not when ive donated well over 2 million dilitium alone in the last 3 months
What? I suggest you find a new fleet if they treat you like that. 20k fleet credits is so easy to get its just not funny. I have several millions of credits not used and we have enough ship requisitions for everyone in our fleet. "nobody uses them" ??? What game are you playing - this made me laugh :rolleyes:
All fleets are the same. Go to roster and look in permissions. If you not got can buy from fleet provisions you can't get a ship. This is default for all fleets I ever been in. Want a ship? Well then make a big fuss in fleet chat about how you deserve a promotion. In other words beg for it. That's if you got a fleet where the leader ever bothers to show up.
Oh, and then you got to buy the thing you need to get the ship. That's 50,000 dilithium and whatever else please. What, the ship isn't worth another 50 bucks? Fleet ships are a waste of time, same as everything fleet.
i dunno why they figured it would be a better science ship instead of an engineer ship..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
For me it is completely the other way around: Making the setup of the fleet corsair different from the base version is much more interesting than base version + something. There are more than enough engineering cruisers around.
I wouldn't have spend the modules on a tenth console, but it's rather the unique setup that made the buy for me.
what engineer carrier is there..
you got the mirror voquv.. it has 2 engineering boffs, but still a commander science..
the karfi, it has a commander science too..
the recluse can be an engineer carrier, and only cause of an uni boff.. its really low on tac tho, only one ensign.. so you lose out on alot of dps if you use that uni for engineer..
the JH heavy escort carrier i suppose could be engineer carrier.. but its expensive. and you would need to have 3 engineer boffs.. no commander.
the JH dreadnought is tac.
if they would have left the fleet corsair alone with the boffs being engineer commander and lt commander.. it would be perfect for engineers.
but they switched it with science.. for no reason..
could have at least made it universal..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
My point was just to find out if it is something to invest on....I play not that much, and while I enjoy to go around spending time with other people in the kin, it still requires time to gather resources and such...if you play 24/7 it is not a big deal a couple of extra hours; but if you are like me, a couple of hours a week is all that you get
I use a tac, at the moment I am flying the free ship that I've got from the anniversary, but as soon as I get my last 5 levels, I will have either the armitage or the Kumari, so unless there is a ship that would give me a better deal than either of them, I can gladly pass
1 console upgrade and a few thousand extra hp, to me is not worth the upgrade for the trouble you have to go through to get it. Fleet weapons on the other hand, i would love to get my hands on these but i have had nothing but bad luck with fleets in the past, so i doubt a fleet will just let me join to get the items and leave though because it would drastically increase my ability to be all the more dangerous in game.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Fleet modules are indeed expensive and with the price of zen going up (using Dil as the currency) it's even more so. It took me a month to save up for 5 modules and that was when dil was at 90-1.
If you've had bad luck, try Shadow House/Fleet or SWAT, both fleets are decent, from my experience.
1 ensign Eng made Uni was a very important reason for my purchase.
I now hold Tactical Team 1 and 2 on my cruiser. For PvP this might be useless, but frankly I don't do endgame PvP at the moment so it is not important for me.
1 character has a fleet Neg'Var, another has a regular Neg'Var and to be honest I trully miss my 2nd Tactical Team now.
Many people can give advice... But it is up to the player looking for a new ship to determine if a ship is worth the trouble
that depends what you mean by expensive. one persons expensive is another persons cheap. i dont have hours to throw at the game.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Shantytown!
(You asked, heh)
It wouldn't hurt us to see Shantytown become that noble sacrifice. :P
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
I have to agree with the others, in that you have obviously never been in a decent fleet. In our Fleet you just need to get past a short probation period as a recruit, and then get a automatic promotion to our basic rank that allows full access to the store.
If you have put in the work to get the fleet credits then you are fully welcome to spend them however you want. As ultimately to our fleet, a Shipyard provision that is turned into a ship, and thus used to help the player and fleet earn more materials is a better investment then hoarding the provisions.
Also, Obvious anti-Fleet troll is Obvious.
There's not that many free games where you can just play and get whatever you want for free over time. Even when STO was Subscription you still needed to buy things from the C-Store and there was no Dilithium Exchange - you paid full price for everything on top of your Sub.
Plus, as mirrorchaos, I do not have time to spend for harvesting resources; in all the MMO that I play, I usually leave crafting aside, because I never found a game that would push me to grind resources, to get a specific item; more or less crafting is a side branch of an mmo, made to increase economy, instead than being really useful for the toon that you play (at least for me). I play maybe 2 hours a week lately, so unless something in the fleet shipyard is really beating what is in the c-store; I wouldn't really spend that much time with it.
I have yet to come across any hardcore KDF fleet that are charging thier members for the right to purchase. Honestly Im a little baffled why any tactions fleet would charge thier own members for such a right.
Invited guests possibly
Complete strangers most likely but humilty should keep prices realistic.
R.I.P
Speak for yourself, if you already own the c-store ship it's 5 million EC and 20k fleet credits - also known as chump change.
If you don't own the c-store ship, then it's 20m. A bit of a ripoff
Kirk's Protege.
For ships that will cost you the full 4 consoles? Now we're getting expensive and there are only few ships worth that price (Klingon side mostly). Other than those few, mostly you do this for RP purposes, not for stats.
Most of the time your 9-console ship is close enough and still fully dangerous. The Fleet upgrade is just 'something extra,' not mandatory.
I've been in a major fleet for a while, and they have generally open access to the fleet store. all they require is you're active and you contribute to the fleet. Since you have to contribute anyway to get fleet credits, its a win-win situation. I have not seen a fleet on any of my toons that requires crazy privileges to get fleet store access. All I've been asked to do is contribute, and in return, I can get a fleet ship. I spend a small amount of money every so often in the game for extra bank slots, outfits, Master Keys (b/c I'm a dope), and I spend the last 500 on a fleet ship module to save for later.
Things to know about fleet ships: They have higher hull strength, an extra console, slightly better shield modifier, and their BOFF seating is comparable to the C-Store retrofit version, just without the bonus console. They can use the bonus console, however, if you have the C-store version. As far as fleets, just do some research. Ask questions, most people are honest. I can't say they all are, obviously, but most will be helpful. Don't go in a fleet that demands you pay them EC to stay in, because that's just stupid. I hope this helps you make a decision on whether you think fleet ships are worth getting or not.
TL;DR- Use common sense, find a good fleet, use zen wisely.
i bought the armitage heavy cruiser so i could et the defense torp and then got the fleet version for added hull 10% extra shields and the scinece console IM VERY happy compared to the last version.