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Why your Charactor Class doesn't mean jack
benovide
Member Posts: 397
You can always find a friend who has a Sci/Eng/Tac who can train the Bridge Officer in that Rapid Fire 3, HY3, GW3, etc. etc. and trade it back to you.
I had the most ignorant conversation ever with a player, who went on and on how Tacs are the only viable because of skills they can train their Tac BOffs in.
Here's a little reality check for you guys, there is always a Sci, Eng, Tac who is willing to, either for EC, or as a favor, train your BOff in a skill only they can train, and trade it back to you.
I'm an Engineer, and both of my Tac Officers have level 3 skills in several areas thanks to Tac Players I'm buds with. I have Sci with Gravity Well 3.
I have a Tac bud of mine that has emergency power to shields 3, etc.
I had the most ignorant conversation ever with a player, who went on and on how Tacs are the only viable because of skills they can train their Tac BOffs in.
Here's a little reality check for you guys, there is always a Sci, Eng, Tac who is willing to, either for EC, or as a favor, train your BOff in a skill only they can train, and trade it back to you.
I'm an Engineer, and both of my Tac Officers have level 3 skills in several areas thanks to Tac Players I'm buds with. I have Sci with Gravity Well 3.
I have a Tac bud of mine that has emergency power to shields 3, etc.
Post edited by benovide on
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You realize your captain has skills that mean more than jack, right?
How do you train them like that and then send them to someone else?
it helps the community and i consider it a community service .
I have heard people talk about training them but still yet to hear how. So far no answer how to train them and send them to people in this thread. I have also asked people in the game but no one ever says how.
Your character class does matter.... I don't see Tacts or Sci's popping Miracle Worker
You have to give them the BOff in question by opening a trade window, and dragging your BOff into the window, and then giving them the BOff. Once they have it, they train it in the skill you want, and then trade it back to you. (Assuming they don't run off with it, instead)
Efficient Saurians really aren't worth while anymore... their prices and usefulness plunged once Leadership stacking and Romulan superior-operative BOFF's went live. It's the exotic DOFF's like Aux2SIF DCE's that command crazy 30mil+ prices these days.
The only folks I would trust with training my Fed Orions and Vet BOFF are my fleet mates -- I've been with them since the early days of STO shooting the breeze on Vent, so there is little danger of them doing any snatch and grab.
EDIT: Regarding Captain Abilities -- don't ignore them. They are HUGE (SNB vs. AP-Alpha vs. RSF, etc...) and will dictate how good players fly their ships.
Veterans only get trained by trusted fleet-members, i would hate to lose 1 of my 5 vets..
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
Not many space abilities really have that big of an impact compared to BOff abilities.
I do use my Miracle Worker time to time, but honestly, I can put greater effect using Sci Team+Hazard Emitters, etc. etc. And have a greater effect on my repairing.
Overall, I see no real reason to have such a strain on worrying about your player class vs ship class. Compared to how the game was 2 years ago to now, almost all the character abilities based on class have already been nerfed nearly into the ground.
What really pushes players aside, are the BOff abilities.
TACTICAL has most useful and powerful captain skills in the game, Attack Pattern Alpha ,Fire on my Mark, Tac Fleet, Go down fighting, Tac init.
For a Tac Escort PvE is a silly easy and in serious PvP only really a TAC Escort or a trick TAC Cruiser build has a chance of killing another experienced player.
A Good build Tac escort can have as much survivability as a Tank Cruiser and does 4-5 times the effective damage, the gap is huge.
In the all round game Tactical has a Huge advanatage over other classes
Science Captain Skills are mainly only useful in PvP as part of a group, although Sensor Scan can be quite useful PvE, other skills Sci Fleet, Dampening field help with tanking PvE but you don't really need them in PvE, Sub Nuc only useful PvP.
Engineer Captain Skills not very useful at present, the nadioncconv and epts have some use tio increase dps slightly , RSF ,eng fleet and miracle worker can help PvP tanking slightly and help a little in Pve but you can tank pve without them.
In Summary best class combo for allround game ,PvE, STF and PvP by a huge margin just now Tac /Escort.
Sci in a Sci ship is very poor PvE and Stf, Engy Cruiser a bit better,but nearly all the expereienced players use an ESCORT with thier Sci and Engineers for PvE and STFs
Very sad they need to do a balance pass
Fed Random-Sci Monte-Eng Monte Banks-Tac
Klingon Warfarin-Sci Gamble-Tac
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
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Did you know, that during any given 15 minute period of play - that you're going to experience at least 73% downtime on the five innate abilities provided by your career selection? That means at most...27% uptime.
Given positioning needs, firing arcs, targets exploding, and all that fun stuff...one could easily make the case that in general - Tac is the least efficient and thus the worst Career choice. They potentially could have the least uptme on their abilities.
Now of course, one could also easily make the case that when in need of inefficient quick bursts of damage - the Eng/Sci simply cannot compare...and that's a valid argument. In PvP where you have small gaps created to spike damage - the Tac will excel. In PvE when somebody screws something up and you need that fast and heavy burst - the Tac will excel.
Curious, eh?
Get a girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband/parent/child/coworker/neighbor/etc to create an account with characters specifically leveled for any of your training needs.
Can anyone here train it for me please?
People always be hating on the Engineers.
Except that Tactical Initiative cuts the cooldowns of the other skills. When I run ISE, here's how that works out generally:
Blow left side generators. APA + FOMM + GDF, hit Tac Initiative. Blow left side transformer.
Clear out spheres and probes, kill right side cube
Blow right side generators. APA + FOMM + Tac Fleet, blow right side transformer.
Clear out spheres and probes. Hit Tac Initiative when available, have as much as I can ready for gateway.
Gateway: APA (if up) + FOMM (if up) + GDF. Disruptor/Phaser Lotus, take a big chunk right off the top. Get aggro. Proceed to not care and blow the hell out of gateway.
Tac Cube: Pop Tac captain skills as available. No need to save them up for another big alpha. Work Tac Cube down and kill it.
So, in 10-15 minutes, I'm using every Tactical captain skill at least twice, if not three times. In doing so, I've contributed substantially toward my team both clearing the mission and getting the optional with time to spare. Imagine multiple tactical captains doing this, and what that adds up to. Those skills matter very, very much.
Also, as you mentioned, and as any of the experienced PvP guys will tell you, stacking Tactical captain powers is the only way to kill a skilled player. You may need some Sub Nuc and hold help from a sci ship, but the Tac captain has to get the kill.
I tried to present both sides, but I must admit I'm a little biased away from Tac. I have 4 Eng, 2 Sci, and 2 Tac...with LoR I'm planning to add 2 Sci.
Even with Tac Init, I still see an efficiency problem because of the emphasis on reducing the target to 0 as fast as possible can mean buff uptime is wasted. Definitely going to be more efficient on the Gate and Tac Cube...but everything else just pops so fast.
Though, the efficiency comment - can definitely be seen as off, lol. Just ran an ISE where I didn't need RSF, MW, nor did anybody need me to drop out Eng Fleet. Held aggro on anything I looked at even with Sensor Targeting Assault and did ~35% (or more, damn combat log doesn't write plasma correctly) of the damage (no FAW - but yeah, Beam Arrays). So that's an extreme example of lack of efficiency...not even needing three of them...meh.
In the end though, I wish Careers actually mattered more. That there were passives that modified different aspects - that the innate abilities were balanced based on that - as well as reviewed for their overall effectiveness both in a solo and team environment.
You miss the most important factor: the player.
Good players who know how to set up a ship to optimize abilities will always stand out over average players. DPS and Ultra Rare consoles be damned. Kim Jon Un has nuclear missiles, but can't hit squat.
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Yes, boffs can gain access to other Lt. Command and Commander skills.
Base captains (Tac, Sci & Eng.) have skills you can't give to boffs. So no, character class does have value.
While DPS alone does win the day in some STF's, in recent new STF's the presence of Sci and & Engineering Captains speed the win. The best example is HOS elite; 2 science captains are recommended. In any combat, have a healer or someone who can drop shields is always a huge bonus.
PvE missions - I'd rather a Sci or Eng Captain. PvP is more challenging, but Sci captains can win with brains.
Now I'm by no means this good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYzNdz-_IKg&feature=youtu.be
but we tend to do it well between 6-7 mins but my fleet has designs on hitting 3:30 mins (Part of the fleet Horror from the vid is in) possibly less.
Also Virus you say wasted efficiency of captain skills but if you didn't manage to kill your target by the time Sensor Scan or EPS+nadeon ran out then they were less efficient/effective anyway. APA and/or FOMM allowed you to kill it faster and move on allowing you greater time to deal with a new threat or more enemies.
Yes other skills are defensive and help you and your team live longer but I can honestly say that 90% of people I make the effort to help out with the AoE defence abilities when a team mate needs it they hit evasive and run away where the entire ability is wasted as I didn't need it -.-
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Knowing how to use your officer class, is requirement for all.
The few things bring special to the table, are miniscule compared tot he BOff abilities you can recieve, vs your skill point decisions in your skill tree.
Been experimenting with a Tac Officer as of late, dominant focus is sci abilities for the BOffs, just as i"ve been focusing on an Eng with a Tac emphasis.
So far, compared to my Sci/Sci characters, and my Tac/Tac toons, aside from the couple skills soly for their classes at the player level, there is hardly any difference at all between any of them in regards to effect in their specific roles.
My Tac/Sci set up, is producing the same DPS with a Gravity Well III as my Sci/Sci set up. Photonic Shockwave, and Viral Matrix are just as effective as well.
My Eng/Tac build, is producing 14k DPS by end of game just as my tac/tac is.
I'm finding no difference at all even worth discussing between mixed crossed/opposite classed toons.
The biggest impacts, are BOff abilities, and skill point distribution in the skill tree.
you kinda missed the whole point: no-one ever complained about the boff training.
The complaint was that tac captains can buff their damage to ridiculous heights while the others get to do jack ****.
Engineer captains prime ability, RSF got stleath nerfed when the 75% resist limit was introduced, combined with a LACK of any sort of upper limit on damage, tac captain can still plow right throw fully buffed shields so the whole engineering perk becomes pointless.
Sci captains suffered from a general lack of potency in their skills.
Holo fleet neither tanks or does it dps. its a distraction that is easily cleared by one faw or spread or scatter volley. In essence its a wasted skill.
Snuggle field, snb and sensor scan remain useful for teams as well as science fleet. But still it seriously lacks synergy with the sci profession.
The Tac synergy is: guns and buffs to guns. (oh and also to anything else that does damage because clearly a tac captain knows how to make a more destructive gravity well.... or warp plasma...)
Engineers get no synergy at all. Their skills do what other skills already do, and without long cool downs.
Sci officers get limited synergy in the sense that sensor scan and SNB degrade defenses on a target. But compared to the sheer firepower a tac captain brings to any build, sci do not really stand a chance. The are in essence snb and scan TRIBBLE.
what. oh. you speak of ground combat.
My artillery is called photon grenade.... and i can buff it... a lot..... and my heals are hypos + a healthy dose of running away..... while my summoned redshirts do the tanking....