Odyssey Science Cruiser
42000 Hull
1.15 Shield Modifier
6 Turn
+10 Shield Power/+10 Aux Power
4 Eng Consoles X, X X, X, X, X
X, X X, X, X
X
Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
34500 Hull
1.0 Shield Modifier
20 Turn
4 Eng Consoles
+10% Bonus Defense X, X, X, X
X, X, X X X, X
X, X
Wells Temporal Science Vessel
30000 Hull
1.45 Shield Modifier
15 Turn
+15 Aux Power
3 Eng Consoles X X, X, X, X
X, X X, X, X
X, X
We know that the Omega Passive Superior Shield Repair has it's Regen Rate modified by the Shield Modifier of the ship the Captain is piloting. Can't remember if anybody stated whether the Shield Modifier did that in general - ie the Shield Modifier of the ship modified the regen rate provided to shields by Shield Power, etc, etc, etc.
Some have suggested that modifier should also affect Shield Resistance. In a similar manner, some have suggested that a Hull Modifier exist for ships as well.
Much like we have the following for Shield Modifiers:
Science Vessel (+)
Cruiser (base)
Escort (-)
We'd have the following for Hull Modifiers:
Cruiser (+)
Escort (base)
Science Vessel (-)
With that, some have wondered if that's along the lines of what Cryptic is thinking of doing with Armor Slots and Secondary Deflectors. The Armor Slots would boost the Hull Survivability of Cruisers and the Secondary Deflectors would boost the Shield Survivability of Science Vessels. The Escort already has it's damage boosted by Turn Rate/DHCs. Even though a Battle Cruser can use DHCs, it doesn't sport the Turn Rate of the Escort to maintain the arc for the DHCs.
Escort +Dmg over Cruiser/Science Vessel
Cruiser +Hull over Escort/Science Vessel
Science Vessel +Shield over Escort/Cruiser
Basically boosting the value of the latter two, since overall improvements have diminished the distinction between the Cruiser/Science Vessel and the Escort. Meanwhile, the value of the first has already seen an increase in the distinction between the Escort and the Cruise/Science Vessel.
When damage is boosted in the game - the Escort is boosted more than the Cruiser/Science Vessel. Oddly, when survivability is boosted in the game - the Escort benefits the most as well. The boost to survivability does more to offset the "fragility" of the Escort than it does to boost the actual survivability of the Cruiser/Science Vessel.
This is because of the simple nature of what does and what does not have Diminishing Returns. There's no DR on Damage...so that just goes up and up. There's DR on Survivability though...it's capped.
Unfortunately, this is further complicated by the sheer number of gimmicks involved and the equality amongst those gimmicks regardless of ship. Though to be fair, the same issue arises from the other side if one will...consider a proc heal, eh? Doesn't matter if it's a 25 Weapon Power Mk I Turret or a 125 Weapon Power Mk XII UR DBB with EPtW, BO, APA, APO, GDF, TT, etc, etc, etc - it procs the same heal. But yes, you can flip that around a bit and even /facepalm at that heal being the same when the Turret hits an Escort and the DBB hits a Cruiser/Science Vessel.
The game continues to disappear into the depths of the munchkin game - they want it all - all the damage, all the survivability, etc, etc, etc - no opportunity costs involved...meh.
As it is escorts are sacrificing dps for survivability if they cant get that survivability because of some resist cap based on there shields they are gona go for more damage to compensate......
You seem to think escorts are lacking in survivability, but I don't think the stats really support that. High-end escorts have shield modifiers close to low-end cruisers. High-end escorts have about 25% less hull than high-end cruisers. Also, escorts have an innate +10% defense bonus.
Yes, the 10-second gap in EPtS will decrease the survivability of escorts, but it will decrease the survivability of all classes.
How many of them actually get used when EPtS is an option?
Honestly I think that's the standard we should use when deciding if EPtS is too strong...
There are 5 Ensign Engineering BOFF abilities.
EPtS
EPtA
EPtW
EPtE
ET
EPtS was the only one that provided the bonus for the full 30s.
EPtA/E/W provided the additional bonus for 5s of the 30s.
ET shares a CD with TT and ST.
TT and EPtS, eh? Yep, at the root of many discussions about abilities that appear "needed" - and - raising the question of whether they should just be default ship abilities. Trippy, eh?
Wonder if TT/ET/ST will be next on the chopping block?
Something that does not benefit escorts, but gives cruisers few more options.
Except the higher ranks actually do grant a bigger and more powerful bonus already.
EPTS is one of the few powers right now that actually does in fact give a significantly larger boost at the higher tiers.
If you don't think 18% vs. 24% vs. 30% resistance +higher power (which also further improves shield res and regen) is significant, you need to take another look.
The cost opportunity is one of either choosing lower resistance and lower power for higher tier powers like ES, DEM or EWP vs. choosing higher resistance and higher power.
Overall, this change adversely affects Cruisers more than other ships as they are the ship class that have the most reasons to cycle multiple EPTx abilities.
Whether or not cruisers need higher shield resistance is a different question to whether or not the change to EPTS was deserved, in my opinion.
And EPTS was quite obviously out of band. If everyone had to have it, if you could chain it constantly, it was broken and it needed to be fixed. Each of the EPT[X] powers should be roughly equivalent, depending on your build and tendencies, and that just wasn't the case.
Whether or not cruisers need higher shield resistance is a different question to whether or not the change to EPTS was deserved, in my opinion.
And EPTS was quite obviously out of band. If everyone had to have it, if you could chain it constantly, it was broken and it needed to be fixed. Each of the EPT[X] powers should be roughly equivalent, depending on your build and tendencies, and that just wasn't the case.
Here's the thing though - that's like treating the symptoms without treating the disease.
Why do so many people feel that EPtS was needed and they have to have it? If all you do is change it without looking at why it was being used as it was...well...the disease might just get worse.
Wonder if TT/ET/ST will be next on the chopping block?
Well, one could argue TT is now even more 'essential' than before, as it can help bridge the 10-sec gap. Redistribute in these 10 seconds, then heal all facings as soon as possible.
Following the logic that if one skill of a cluster is the only viable choice there's a problem, then yes, it might very well be up for tweaks next.
And you know what? If done properly, I'm all for that. I'd love to be able to use ST or ET every once in a while, but I don't, because I use full-uptime TT on ALL my ships. Either through running 2 copies or through doffs.
As I see it, a decent way to do this would be to buff the existing Redistribute Shields button slightly, maybe just the activation time, even, and then slightly up the +skill boost TT gives, and then reduce the duration of the power-redistribute it does now, to say, 8 seconds - matching RSP.
However, that I appreciate this epts change, and would like such a change to TT, needs to be seen in perspective: I would also like to see tac captain powers to be tweaked, and maybe AP:O too, so buff stacking will not increase damage output from a single dhc from 1500 to 6000, or silly spike figures like that. Don't get me wrong, I love my Escorts, BoP's and Raptors, but with a good build you can currently spike through pretty much anything short of RSP. Creating windows of opportunity, such as this change does, should remove the need for the insane spike potential currently seen. If we can buff these dhc's to about 3500-4000 each, they'll still hit plenty hard, spike enough, but need to be used with some attention to target buff status.
I'm a supporter of a balanced game that requires skill for all play styles/careers.
Except the higher ranks actually do grant a bigger and more powerful bonus already.
EPTS is one of the few powers right now that actually does in fact give a significantly larger boost at the higher tiers.
If you don't think 18% vs. 24% vs. 30% resistance +higher power (which also further improves shield res and regen) is significant, you need to take another look.
The cost opportunity is one of either choosing lower resistance and lower power for higher tier powers like ES, DEM or EWP vs. choosing higher resistance and higher power.
Overall, this change adversely affects Cruisers more than other ships as they are the ship class that have the most reasons to cycle multiple EPTx abilities.
Your problem generally is that you look only on shields, because you do not consider E,W,A of higher rank even worth choosing.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I am not sure I have the math right but for EptW3 are we losing around 10seconds of around 60% damage boost to gain 15 seconds of around 16.6% damage boost? So overall we gain much less for using power to weapons? This is based on 2% weapon damage per power point. It seems like a large nerf to me if I have the math right.
I still think dual beams need looking at. The problem is lack of synergy with rear slots. Beam arrays and turrets or cannons can use bridge officer powers with 7 or 8 weapons. Dual beam users can only use bridge officers powers with 4 front beam weapons while focusing on 1 target. Add that into slow crusier turn rate and we could do with some sort of rear beam slow that only fires forward or some sort of rear 360 beam slots. Dual beams rigth now are worse then beam arrays.
Any chance of given dual beams an extra bonus for using power to weapons?
EDIT: Why not rename the powers to “Warp Core power to X” Then we do not have to worry about it being an emergency power that stays up ages.
Your problem generally is that you look only on shields, because you do not consider E,W,A of higher rank even worth choosing.
Why would they be?
Cruisers have, in general, 4 Lt or Lower slots to fill.
Some have 3 ensign slots to fill.
Do you think even with the changes it would make any kind of sense for a Cruiser to give up a Ltc slot for EPTA 3?
How about EPTE 3?'
A cruiser choosing EPTW 3 over EPTS 3 is making a mistake, unless all they ever do is "fluff" content where they are never actually in any danger.
You need survivability first before you can focus on the other, comparatively minor, boosts these other EPTx powers now offer.
On top of this, Cruisers have much better powers in general from ltc to choose from to begin with, such as ES 2, Aux to SIF 2, EWP 1, ET 3.
Compare any of those to slotting even the revamped EPT A, W, E 3 and you will see the notion falls flat on it's face.
The devs think they have created more choices with a more "dynamic" use of these powers.
They have indirectly created less choices through a domino effect.
They think choosing to use EPTx "when you need them" is more dynamic and interesting than "always on", except they have completely forgotten to take Shared and Global cooldowns into consideration.
My opinion is that "boring & reliable" powers should occupy the lower tier selections with "dynamic & build defining" choices happening at the upper (Ltc+) tiers.
Overall, this change adversely affects Cruisers more than other ships as they are the ship class that have the most reasons to cycle multiple EPTx abilities.
Agree with you, the bigger losser are going to be the cruisers.
I really do not like the "nerf" to EPtoS. It is a very important part of the current balance between Offense and defense. You cannot nerf the defense without balancing the offense as well. There is a reason why defensive powers such as EPtoS and Tactical team is "universally" used. It is NEEDED to survive the very high levels of spike DPS in the game.
I understand what the Devs are trying to do. These proposed changes may "balance" the EPtoX powers to each other, but it throws the entire DPS/Defense balance out of whack. You cannot simply adjust powers without looking that its effects on balance as a whole. If defense is going to be adjusted, DPS needs to be adjusted as well.
Really...we are now truly entering the Escorts Online era.
Sorry, I didn't see that official replies were to go here when I posted in the patch notes. Here is my post from there:
I am sorry, but regardless to the arguments to the contrary, this really is a nerf to the role (that most insist upon) of an Engineer in a Cruiser as a Tank/Healer.
With the changes to EPtS, I think there will be a lot less cross-healing going on. The heals that the Tank/Healer would give to teammates will, more times than naught, be held in reserve for those 10 seconds of downtime.
But with the changes to EPtW, everyone that uses it will see an increase in DPS. More Escort pilots will take it and see an even greater boost thanks to their DHCs. More DPS for the Escorts, will mean more threat generated... meaning more of a need for teammates to heal them. Unfortunately, the Tank/Healer will be too busy healing themselves.
While the above does not promote good teamwork; I believe it will happen.
And now for something constructive:
The more I thought about the changes in duration; the more I came to realize that they seem more similar to Batteries. If these changes are set in stone; how about a compromise?
I have no idea how difficult this would be to code. Starship Electro-Plasma Systems already has an effect on EPtX abilities. What if it would also increase the duration of the EPtX abilities? Currently like Starship Batteries affects the duration of batteries. If fully trained, it would also grant a maximum +10 seconds to duration.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Overall, this change adversely affects Cruisers more than other ships as they are the ship class that have the most reasons to cycle multiple EPTx abilities.
Just tested out the new Power to weapons 2 on tribble.
For 5 seconds the dps is the same.
For 10 seconds I lost 238.1 dps per gun.
For 15 seconds I gained 134.5 dps per gun.
238.1x10=2381.1 DPS lost for those 10 seconds.
134.5x15=2017.5 DPS gained for those 15 sceonds.
So I lose 363.6 dps per gun over 30seconds with the new change. 8 guns means I lose 2,908.8dps over 30 seconds. So this change means my crusier deals less DPS and tank less DPS. Yet the devs said this boosts crusiers?
I don't know how you folks can come up with this "Sky is falling!" change to EPTS. There is a little thing called power management, if you put more power into shields you will net more res and regen.
EPTS is just that. Emergency power. For an engineer captain like myself, an ETS3 is a shield heal of over 3000 per facing. I am a subnuc magnet in PvP. I survive just fine without the res portion of epts.
This is a great buff for engineers/cruisers. This is a great buff for Tac/Escorts. This is a great buff for Sci/science vessels.
The EptA Damage buff is nice, but you are ignoring something major.
THE SKILL CHANGE STILL DOES NOT IMPROVE THE REPEL ON GRAVITY WELL.
With 6/9 into the relevant skill, 2 MkXII Purple Consoles, my GW3 is STILL -.51 REPEL.This needs to be updated again, to increase the -repel levels on skills like GW3.
I don't know how you folks can come up with this "Sky is falling!" change to EPTS. There is a little thing called power management, if you put more power into shields you will net more res and regen.
EPTS is just that. Emergency power. For an engineer captain like myself, an ETS3 is a shield heal of over 3000 per facing. I am a subnuc magnet in PvP. I survive just fine without the res portion of epts.
This is a great buff for engineers/cruisers. This is a great buff for Tac/Escorts. This is a great buff for Sci/science vessels.
How is this a buff for engineers/cruisers? Crusiers deal less DPS and tank less with this change, that is not a buff. I am losing both DPS and tank over the old settings. After losing both my only option is to lose even more DPS to get back up to old tanking levels or lose even more tank to get back up to old DPS levels. So the change massively hurts cruisers.
Like I said above my setups loses over 2k dps and has a weaker shield tank. If I put my dps back to the old level I lose even more shied tank. So please tell me just what is a buff about this? All I see is a nerf.
EDIT: Another way to put this. There is only a limited amount of power. You need more weapon power to do the same DPS as before and more shield power to tank the same as before. But there is no spare power.
Add DPS via P2W and NERF tanking skills. Great design there guys.
The problem isn't EPTS, it's the new fleet res A, B shields. This NERF to EPTS nails all the people who haven't got the tier 5 shields and due to being in a small guild, will never really have the chance.
As others have said, that 10 sec window will be exploited via every good escort pilot there is in PVP. Now, via the store, equipped with 5 DHCs to add insult to injury.
The EptA Damage buff is nice, but you are ignoring something major.
THE SKILL CHANGE STILL DOES NOT IMPROVE THE REPEL ON GRAVITY WELL.
With 6/9 into the relevant skill, 2 MkXII Purple Consoles, my GW3 is STILL -.51 REPEL.This needs to be updated again, to increase the -repel levels on skills like GW3.
The repel will never change. It was said that in the past. Tech doesn't allow it.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
its not just the 18%/24%/30%, or what ever it is anymore, that you lose for 10 seconds, its all the res you get from your power level droping too.
most ships seem to operate with about 40% res to 65% res, in some cases caping out at 76% with elite resA/B shields and useing EPtS3, or a lower grade of of EPtS and a TSS. this is a problem frankly, the ease of shield res buffing is completely out of hand, the elite shields are the worst item ever introduced into the game. a general nerf is needed, not a gaping hole of death. theres enough of a yoyo problem already.
for 10 seconds you will be lucky to have between 15% res, and 30% res for those 10 seconds. every good escort player will simply kill everything in that extreamly long 10 second window with basically 0 trouble. the entire duration of CRF is 10 seconds afterall, and they wont even need all 10 seconds.
yes i have a way of knowing my exact shield res, and anyone else's exact shield res.
YOU CANT PUT A HUGE HOLE IN SHIELD RES FOR AN ENTIRE 10 SECONDS.
its a branding problem. instead drop the 'emergency' from 'emergence power to'. make it just 'power to weapons' or 'power to shields'. its excess power your ship generates, waiting for you to distribute as you see fit, on top of the basic power generation. ships are powered by both the M/AM warp core and the fusion reactors that are hooked directly to the impulse engines. the 'power to' skills could be power from those impulse generators. every ship has at least 2 impulse engines, so you can double up 2 different types of 'power to' abilities. warp core potential and efficiency just effect the warp core generated 200 base power, so it all works out perfectly for a fluff explanation of whats happening.
so, the current res buff from EPtS, those should proboly be halved. let all the bonuses run for all 30 seconds, let thier be 0 down time, and keep those new changes as is. again for all 30 seconds. for all intents and purposes, these are passive skills you have to refresh, and thats ok.
here's another thought, sci ships have innate subsytem targeting, maybe give cruisers innate emergency power too skills. those can actual be emergency power, say a +20 boost to 1 of the 4 subsystems, with a 2 minute cooldown. all completely separate from the now called 'power to' abilities. could think up something for escorts to maybe, but frankly they dont need or deserve some inate extra like this. they are already the bast chassis of ship by far. if you gave the patrol escort the assault cruisers station setup, it would be a hugely better assault cruiser then the current assault cruiser.
^THIS! THIS! A thousand times this!^
The changes as they are now benefit escorts only. With my escorts, I run so much def I can already out tank my cruisers. Put a hole in shield res and my cruiser suffers, not my scort. Cut the res down like ddis said and...well, just everything ddis said in this post.
Just tested out the new Power to weapons 2 on tribble.
For 5 seconds the dps is the same.
For 10 seconds I lost 238.1 dps per gun.
For 15 seconds I gained 134.5 dps per gun.
238.1x10=2381.1 DPS lost for those 10 seconds.
134.5x15=2017.5 DPS gained for those 15 sceonds.
So I lose 363.6 dps per gun over 30seconds with the new change. 8 guns means I lose 2,908.8dps over 30 seconds. So this change means my crusier deals less DPS and tank less DPS. Yet the devs said this boosts crusiers?
Out of curiosity, how did you perform the test? I just ask in case range changes were a factor and the actual problem might be greater or lesser. Ever since timid foundry creatures were altered the only way I have to test reliably is get a friend to sit still while I shoot him.
Thanks for posting this though, especially with everyone so focused on the shields.
Comments
42000 Hull
1.15 Shield Modifier
6 Turn
+10 Shield Power/+10 Aux Power
4 Eng Consoles
X, X
X, X, X, X
X, X
X, X, X
X
Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
34500 Hull
1.0 Shield Modifier
20 Turn
4 Eng Consoles
+10% Bonus Defense
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X
X, X
X, X
Wells Temporal Science Vessel
30000 Hull
1.45 Shield Modifier
15 Turn
+15 Aux Power
3 Eng Consoles
X
X, X, X, X
X, X
X, X, X
X, X
We know that the Omega Passive Superior Shield Repair has it's Regen Rate modified by the Shield Modifier of the ship the Captain is piloting. Can't remember if anybody stated whether the Shield Modifier did that in general - ie the Shield Modifier of the ship modified the regen rate provided to shields by Shield Power, etc, etc, etc.
Some have suggested that modifier should also affect Shield Resistance. In a similar manner, some have suggested that a Hull Modifier exist for ships as well.
Much like we have the following for Shield Modifiers:
Science Vessel (+)
Cruiser (base)
Escort (-)
We'd have the following for Hull Modifiers:
Cruiser (+)
Escort (base)
Science Vessel (-)
With that, some have wondered if that's along the lines of what Cryptic is thinking of doing with Armor Slots and Secondary Deflectors. The Armor Slots would boost the Hull Survivability of Cruisers and the Secondary Deflectors would boost the Shield Survivability of Science Vessels. The Escort already has it's damage boosted by Turn Rate/DHCs. Even though a Battle Cruser can use DHCs, it doesn't sport the Turn Rate of the Escort to maintain the arc for the DHCs.
Escort +Dmg over Cruiser/Science Vessel
Cruiser +Hull over Escort/Science Vessel
Science Vessel +Shield over Escort/Cruiser
Basically boosting the value of the latter two, since overall improvements have diminished the distinction between the Cruiser/Science Vessel and the Escort. Meanwhile, the value of the first has already seen an increase in the distinction between the Escort and the Cruise/Science Vessel.
When damage is boosted in the game - the Escort is boosted more than the Cruiser/Science Vessel. Oddly, when survivability is boosted in the game - the Escort benefits the most as well. The boost to survivability does more to offset the "fragility" of the Escort than it does to boost the actual survivability of the Cruiser/Science Vessel.
This is because of the simple nature of what does and what does not have Diminishing Returns. There's no DR on Damage...so that just goes up and up. There's DR on Survivability though...it's capped.
Unfortunately, this is further complicated by the sheer number of gimmicks involved and the equality amongst those gimmicks regardless of ship. Though to be fair, the same issue arises from the other side if one will...consider a proc heal, eh? Doesn't matter if it's a 25 Weapon Power Mk I Turret or a 125 Weapon Power Mk XII UR DBB with EPtW, BO, APA, APO, GDF, TT, etc, etc, etc - it procs the same heal. But yes, you can flip that around a bit and even /facepalm at that heal being the same when the Turret hits an Escort and the DBB hits a Cruiser/Science Vessel.
The game continues to disappear into the depths of the munchkin game - they want it all - all the damage, all the survivability, etc, etc, etc - no opportunity costs involved...meh.
But
EPtS not really.
EPtS1=20sec EPtS2=25sec EPtS3=30sec
Do we have a deal?:D
You seem to think escorts are lacking in survivability, but I don't think the stats really support that. High-end escorts have shield modifiers close to low-end cruisers. High-end escorts have about 25% less hull than high-end cruisers. Also, escorts have an innate +10% defense bonus.
Yes, the 10-second gap in EPtS will decrease the survivability of escorts, but it will decrease the survivability of all classes.
Certain aspects yes.
Certain aspects no.
It's kind of funny how it being on Tribble precludes being able to do the actual testing needed, eh?
How many Eng Boff skills are there?
How many of them actually get used when EPtS is an option?
Honestly I think that's the standard we should use when deciding if EPtS is too strong...
My character Tsin'xing
There are 5 Ensign Engineering BOFF abilities.
EPtS
EPtA
EPtW
EPtE
ET
EPtS was the only one that provided the bonus for the full 30s.
EPtA/E/W provided the additional bonus for 5s of the 30s.
ET shares a CD with TT and ST.
TT and EPtS, eh? Yep, at the root of many discussions about abilities that appear "needed" - and - raising the question of whether they should just be default ship abilities. Trippy, eh?
Wonder if TT/ET/ST will be next on the chopping block?
Except the higher ranks actually do grant a bigger and more powerful bonus already.
EPTS is one of the few powers right now that actually does in fact give a significantly larger boost at the higher tiers.
If you don't think 18% vs. 24% vs. 30% resistance +higher power (which also further improves shield res and regen) is significant, you need to take another look.
The cost opportunity is one of either choosing lower resistance and lower power for higher tier powers like ES, DEM or EWP vs. choosing higher resistance and higher power.
Overall, this change adversely affects Cruisers more than other ships as they are the ship class that have the most reasons to cycle multiple EPTx abilities.
And EPTS was quite obviously out of band. If everyone had to have it, if you could chain it constantly, it was broken and it needed to be fixed. Each of the EPT[X] powers should be roughly equivalent, depending on your build and tendencies, and that just wasn't the case.
Here's the thing though - that's like treating the symptoms without treating the disease.
Why do so many people feel that EPtS was needed and they have to have it? If all you do is change it without looking at why it was being used as it was...well...the disease might just get worse.
I'm expecting changes to the Teams.
Well, one could argue TT is now even more 'essential' than before, as it can help bridge the 10-sec gap. Redistribute in these 10 seconds, then heal all facings as soon as possible.
Following the logic that if one skill of a cluster is the only viable choice there's a problem, then yes, it might very well be up for tweaks next.
And you know what? If done properly, I'm all for that. I'd love to be able to use ST or ET every once in a while, but I don't, because I use full-uptime TT on ALL my ships. Either through running 2 copies or through doffs.
As I see it, a decent way to do this would be to buff the existing Redistribute Shields button slightly, maybe just the activation time, even, and then slightly up the +skill boost TT gives, and then reduce the duration of the power-redistribute it does now, to say, 8 seconds - matching RSP.
However, that I appreciate this epts change, and would like such a change to TT, needs to be seen in perspective: I would also like to see tac captain powers to be tweaked, and maybe AP:O too, so buff stacking will not increase damage output from a single dhc from 1500 to 6000, or silly spike figures like that. Don't get me wrong, I love my Escorts, BoP's and Raptors, but with a good build you can currently spike through pretty much anything short of RSP. Creating windows of opportunity, such as this change does, should remove the need for the insane spike potential currently seen. If we can buff these dhc's to about 3500-4000 each, they'll still hit plenty hard, spike enough, but need to be used with some attention to target buff status.
I'm a supporter of a balanced game that requires skill for all play styles/careers.
Your problem generally is that you look only on shields, because you do not consider E,W,A of higher rank even worth choosing.
I still think dual beams need looking at. The problem is lack of synergy with rear slots. Beam arrays and turrets or cannons can use bridge officer powers with 7 or 8 weapons. Dual beam users can only use bridge officers powers with 4 front beam weapons while focusing on 1 target. Add that into slow crusier turn rate and we could do with some sort of rear beam slow that only fires forward or some sort of rear 360 beam slots. Dual beams rigth now are worse then beam arrays.
Any chance of given dual beams an extra bonus for using power to weapons?
EDIT: Why not rename the powers to “Warp Core power to X” Then we do not have to worry about it being an emergency power that stays up ages.
EPTS doesn't need a10 second hole in it... thanks...
That's like giving me an umbrella to keep dry in a thunderstorm, but it has a moving 3 inch hole in it, that randomly pops over my head.
o and I am apparently the wicked witch, and melt when wet...
Everyone is talking about how this effects cruisers, but it also negatively effects every other ship in the game using this skill.
Bring all the other EPT skills up to 30 seconds and DROP the shared cooldown to 15 seconds, that is my suggestion.
Why would they be?
Cruisers have, in general, 4 Lt or Lower slots to fill.
Some have 3 ensign slots to fill.
Do you think even with the changes it would make any kind of sense for a Cruiser to give up a Ltc slot for EPTA 3?
How about EPTE 3?'
A cruiser choosing EPTW 3 over EPTS 3 is making a mistake, unless all they ever do is "fluff" content where they are never actually in any danger.
You need survivability first before you can focus on the other, comparatively minor, boosts these other EPTx powers now offer.
On top of this, Cruisers have much better powers in general from ltc to choose from to begin with, such as ES 2, Aux to SIF 2, EWP 1, ET 3.
Compare any of those to slotting even the revamped EPT A, W, E 3 and you will see the notion falls flat on it's face.
The devs think they have created more choices with a more "dynamic" use of these powers.
They have indirectly created less choices through a domino effect.
They think choosing to use EPTx "when you need them" is more dynamic and interesting than "always on", except they have completely forgotten to take Shared and Global cooldowns into consideration.
My opinion is that "boring & reliable" powers should occupy the lower tier selections with "dynamic & build defining" choices happening at the upper (Ltc+) tiers.
Agree with you, the bigger losser are going to be the cruisers.
I hope this changes do not go live.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
I understand what the Devs are trying to do. These proposed changes may "balance" the EPtoX powers to each other, but it throws the entire DPS/Defense balance out of whack. You cannot simply adjust powers without looking that its effects on balance as a whole. If defense is going to be adjusted, DPS needs to be adjusted as well.
Really...we are now truly entering the Escorts Online era.
I am sorry, but regardless to the arguments to the contrary, this really is a nerf to the role (that most insist upon) of an Engineer in a Cruiser as a Tank/Healer.
With the changes to EPtS, I think there will be a lot less cross-healing going on. The heals that the Tank/Healer would give to teammates will, more times than naught, be held in reserve for those 10 seconds of downtime.
But with the changes to EPtW, everyone that uses it will see an increase in DPS. More Escort pilots will take it and see an even greater boost thanks to their DHCs. More DPS for the Escorts, will mean more threat generated... meaning more of a need for teammates to heal them. Unfortunately, the Tank/Healer will be too busy healing themselves.
While the above does not promote good teamwork; I believe it will happen.
And now for something constructive:
The more I thought about the changes in duration; the more I came to realize that they seem more similar to Batteries. If these changes are set in stone; how about a compromise?
I have no idea how difficult this would be to code. Starship Electro-Plasma Systems already has an effect on EPtX abilities. What if it would also increase the duration of the EPtX abilities? Currently like Starship Batteries affects the duration of batteries. If fully trained, it would also grant a maximum +10 seconds to duration.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
For 5 seconds the dps is the same.
For 10 seconds I lost 238.1 dps per gun.
For 15 seconds I gained 134.5 dps per gun.
238.1x10=2381.1 DPS lost for those 10 seconds.
134.5x15=2017.5 DPS gained for those 15 sceonds.
So I lose 363.6 dps per gun over 30seconds with the new change. 8 guns means I lose 2,908.8dps over 30 seconds. So this change means my crusier deals less DPS and tank less DPS. Yet the devs said this boosts crusiers?
EPTS is just that. Emergency power. For an engineer captain like myself, an ETS3 is a shield heal of over 3000 per facing. I am a subnuc magnet in PvP. I survive just fine without the res portion of epts.
This is a great buff for engineers/cruisers. This is a great buff for Tac/Escorts. This is a great buff for Sci/science vessels.
The EptA Damage buff is nice, but you are ignoring something major.
THE SKILL CHANGE STILL DOES NOT IMPROVE THE REPEL ON GRAVITY WELL.
With 6/9 into the relevant skill, 2 MkXII Purple Consoles, my GW3 is STILL -.51 REPEL. This needs to be updated again, to increase the -repel levels on skills like GW3.
How is this a buff for engineers/cruisers? Crusiers deal less DPS and tank less with this change, that is not a buff. I am losing both DPS and tank over the old settings. After losing both my only option is to lose even more DPS to get back up to old tanking levels or lose even more tank to get back up to old DPS levels. So the change massively hurts cruisers.
Like I said above my setups loses over 2k dps and has a weaker shield tank. If I put my dps back to the old level I lose even more shied tank. So please tell me just what is a buff about this? All I see is a nerf.
EDIT: Another way to put this. There is only a limited amount of power. You need more weapon power to do the same DPS as before and more shield power to tank the same as before. But there is no spare power.
The problem isn't EPTS, it's the new fleet res A, B shields. This NERF to EPTS nails all the people who haven't got the tier 5 shields and due to being in a small guild, will never really have the chance.
As others have said, that 10 sec window will be exploited via every good escort pilot there is in PVP. Now, via the store, equipped with 5 DHCs to add insult to injury.
Well, anyway, TESO is coming.
The repel will never change. It was said that in the past. Tech doesn't allow it.
^THIS! THIS! A thousand times this!^
The changes as they are now benefit escorts only. With my escorts, I run so much def I can already out tank my cruisers. Put a hole in shield res and my cruiser suffers, not my scort. Cut the res down like ddis said and...well, just everything ddis said in this post.
Out of curiosity, how did you perform the test? I just ask in case range changes were a factor and the actual problem might be greater or lesser. Ever since timid foundry creatures were altered the only way I have to test reliably is get a friend to sit still while I shoot him.
Thanks for posting this though, especially with everyone so focused on the shields.