2. Hire another writer and perhaps even another world-builder (maybe an exceptional Foundry creator?) to make new content. The writer would write missions specifically for exploration content, that don't tie in to the main storyline. The world-builder would use existing assets only, to save time (which sounds a lot like using the Foundry).
Hate to quote myself, but there was another reply... This idea is really what you should do, period. Just hire a person (or persons) to use pre-existing assets, and create missions unrelated to the main storyline. I guess this is sort of what the Foundry does, but this way the writer is actually there to have their stories vetted by Kestrel (and CBS?).
I still don't understand Cryptic's insistence that every new set of storyline missions (Featured Episodes) they release have new tech, or voiceovers, or whatever. Just use existing assets, create a bunch of missions, and let us play them. "Perfect is the enemy of the good" as they say.
I think I see your problem.. These two words do not go together: Repeatable & Exploration.
An Exploration system should not be Repeatable. The random generation is great in the current system, the problem is that its the same cookie cutter missions over and over again.
The problem there is that MMOs are built around the idea of repetition. Once the story is played out, in a single player game, you're done. In an MMO, there has to be something to come back to, whether that's PvP or building starbases. There's a column about EVE that addresses that concern: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132877/the_icelandic_model_of_mmo_.php?print=1
Looking at that again, perhaps I was wrong - perhaps trying to bang out a ton of missions isn't the right way to do it. There's got to be some other system, that's more engaging than Genesis, that will draw players in and allow them to "explore" without getting stale.
I would have liked to see some of the exploration missions actually incur on your ship involving your crew. Examples could be intruder, unknown entity or mysterious infection. Ive always liked the random nature of exploration, just felt it was underutilized and has more potential than was tapped.
New Romulus was more exploration than the exploration system was.
Exploring caves.... old technology... ruins...
When i look at Mass Effect 1 ...those horrible annoying side planets where you could only drive around in that Tank thingy... where you searched the whole map for things of worth, something to mine, something to shoot.... THAT was exploration... and something like that could be easily randomized.
We have EVA suits now... we could explore low grav Asteroids, hostile Enviroments etc. before we could technically only visit M-Class Planets.
Also... Exploration should take longer. Those click 5 clicky missions are not entertaining and get repetitive real fast.
Also... DO NOT TELL ME that there are 5 clickies -> give me a map, where i have to scan / search etc. there might be 20 good things there might be none, it is called exploration for a reason, how would anybody know that there are 5 of what i want?
It could have a lot more to do with Crafting.
I think that was also the intention before... Exploration Maps mostly have anomalies in every map = crafting materials. Today, we just hammer out some Sci and Explo DOff Assignments and get our supply that way.
So.... revamping Exploration really has to go hand in hand with revamping Crafting (the DOff UI would probably be exploited for this too, think Mk XII Console Crafting here -> everything by chance).
And to make Crafting interesting again, we need more interesting Items in the game than just ... Borg / Maco Set... Elite Fleet Phaser.... and everything being so damn pre-defined all the time. ...think more Diablo, multiple Stats, everything seems random, and there is ALWAYS the chance of getting something better.
And most important of all: the more you do it, the more efficient you have to get at it -> do more exploration, get better results at it, get passive bonusses to get more critical crafting mat drops... etc. do more crafting = get better chances at getting the good stuff
Throwing out the current system would probably be a bad idea, but it is very shallow.
The dozen or so templates is a problem, adding more is simple, it'd make it less boring.. for a time
Adding in foundry missions specifically for exploration would be a great thing. Getting something exploitative or broken is not fun
Fixing the shallow nature of programmable/repeatable scenarios is your major hurdle. You can't problem the unknown to be innovative, it can't play tricks, be intelligent or inspire real imagination. The foundry is probably the best way to do it, but controlling the foundry output is not easy.
I like the genisus engine and missions, but they are not fun, they are repetitive and get old fast. I agree with the other players that the existing missions in the genisus need an over haul. the system is good but needs some loving.
Personally, I really don't see the foundry being a solution. Why would it be? We can already access any Foundry mission we want at any time we want; what purpose does making us go to specific locations and then randomizing what mission we get serve? They could just add a 'Feeling Lucky' button to the UGC window if all you want is to make things more unpredictable.
Hooking up the Foundry to exploration zones may seem like a good way to flesh out the content, but it doesn't add anything that isn't already there; and it would make any new dev created exploration content less likely (since they'd be free to think 'Sorted!' after making the Foundry hookup and then never look at exploration again).
I could only see a Foundry hookup working out well if the chances of getting a Foundry mission were no greater than the chances of getting an 'Aid the Planet' mission or something; and a decent amount of new dev created content gets added into the mix as well.
I'm glad I don't have to spend all my playing time pressing F on anomalies these days.
I've seen all the threads about exploration, and so far I haven't seen a single one with a system that made sense from a game design standpoint. People overestimate either the magical abilities of random generators or of how replayable their idea really is.
This is an excellent point and summarizes a LOT of the problems related to this idea.
One thing to remember is that Star Trek shows were a) written by people, and b) you were not expected to interact with (and therefore could be rigidly scripted without problems), plus c) only occupied an hour, 25 times a year.
You are not going to get randomly generated "realistic" races or anything of the sort. You might get better randomly-generated scenarios, but when it comes right down to it, it's going to be basically video game MadLibs (although they could be pretty good).
There has been talk of integrating the Foundry into this somehow, IIRC, but I don't know the details.
However, major bottom line - Star Trek Online is about being in the Star Trek universe. Not necessarily doing what Picard did every week. People are a lot more likely to shell out cash to shoot Borg than spend hours with click-through diplomacy - which would rapidly grow pretty bizarre in MadLibs format.
Honestly I think the best that would be realistic would be a more diverse random-generated mission system combined with Foundry integration.
Scrapping the system seems the wrong way to go about it, largely because coming up with the infinity engine concept seems to be a monumental task.
However if the Genesis system is like building lego, than the system needs all the building blocks you can possible think up, and which are currently technically possible in the game. (Think Gameplay mechanics here, Space walks, space combat, ground combat, BOFFs, DOFFs, objective interaction, repairing via BOFF abilities, NPC interactions, dialog, triggers ect ect ect.)
Once you have all the separate blocks, the system needs to be able to combine them in a variety of different ways.
Diplomacy vs Force
This slider determines the amount of Dialog interaction which would be present in the generated mission.
Difficulty Slider
Overwrites the players set difficulty slider for Missions. Determines the difficulty and NPC dropped reward quality in the generated mission.
Space vs Ground
Determines the proportion of the mission which takes place in either Space or Ground. 0% Means there is only Space maps, where as 100% is pure ground maps.
XP vs Items
Slider which determines the distribution ratio of XP rewards contra Item drops/rewards from the mission objectives and NPC drops. Leveling up is more important to you? Set it all the way towards XP and receive no items. Items more important? Set it all the way the opposite way. Need both XP and items? Adjust it somewhere in between the two absolutes.
"Obscurity vs Clarity" <-- working title ;P
Slider determines if objectives requires more exploration and subtlety, or whether they are more directly accessible.
"Content Type Slider" <--- another working title
This slider/buttons determines whether the content is raw exploration, or is tied to a Reputation system. The difference being that Specific Reputation missions are generated, if so chosen. i.e. Omega button/slider setting generates Genesis Missions which rewards Omega Reputation rewards.
"Randomize"
This button randomizes the above sliders.
Bottom line is, the system needs variety to be "interesting".
I think that fixing the exploration system already has a lot of roots in the game. Leave all the current exploration missions that are in game, Intermingle random foundry missions that are created expressly for the exploration missions. These would be the missions that don't qualify for the "officer report" bonus rewards. Make more random planets where there might not be anything to do but look at the ruins of an ancient city or find some ancient stuff (personal or ship gear several levels below you, or in ultra rare instances above you). Most importiantly, every mission done or action done in the exploration areas should give exploration experience.
Here's a thought: what specific episodes are people looking at when they think "Star Trek exploration"? The one where Picard is racing against Romulans, Klingons, and Cardassians to find a hidden message from an ancient race? Every episode of Voyager that involved a new alien of the week?
I think once people narrow down a specific set of episodes that embody the exploration of Star Trek, it might be easier to figure out where to go. Would it mean more scripted missions (and hiring a write specifically for them)? Or would it mean an expansion of Genesis and random generation?
Here's a thought: what specific episodes are people looking at when they think "Star Trek exploration"? The one where Picard is racing against Romulans, Klingons, and Cardassians to find a hidden message from an ancient race? Every episode of Voyager that involved a new alien of the week?
I think once people narrow down a specific set of episodes that embody the exploration of Star Trek, it might be easier to figure out where to go. Would it mean more scripted missions (and hiring a write specifically for them)? Or would it mean an expansion of Genesis and random generation?
Well, the first one that pops into my head is 'The Ship' (DS9). That's the one where Sisko and company are conducting a planetary survey when a Jemmy battle-bug crashes nearby.
There is already an exploration system that gives you wildly unpredictable missions.
It's called "doing Foundry missions."
i would like to see foundry missions of a high caliber, when they hit a level of certain threshhold of popularity be locked down by cryptic, restore the foundry slot to the author, and have the dev team and writers contact the author to "polish" the mission to a high shine and placed into the game as exploration missions.
Scrapping the system seems the wrong way to go about it, largely because coming up with the infinity engine concept seems to be a monumental task.
However if the Genesis system is like building lego, than the system needs all the building blocks you can possible think up, and which are currently technically possible in the game. (Think Gameplay mechanics here, Space walks, space combat, ground combat, BOFFs, DOFFs, objective interaction, repairing via BOFF abilities, NPC interactions, dialog, triggers ect ect ect.)
Once you have all the separate blocks, the system needs to be able to combine them in a variety of different ways.
Diplomacy vs Force
This slider determines the amount of Dialog interaction which would be present in the generated mission.
Difficulty Slider
Overwrites the players set difficulty slider for Missions. Determines the difficulty and NPC dropped reward quality in the generated mission.
Space vs Ground
Determines the proportion of the mission which takes place in either Space or Ground. 0% Means there is only Space maps, where as 100% is pure ground maps.
XP vs Items
Slider which determines the distribution ratio of XP rewards contra Item drops/rewards from the mission objectives and NPC drops. Leveling up is more important to you? Set it all the way towards XP and receive no items. Items more important? Set it all the way the opposite way. Need both XP and items? Adjust it somewhere in between the two absolutes.
"Obscurity vs Clarity" <-- working title ;P
Slider determines if objectives requires more exploration and subtlety, or whether they are more directly accessible.
"Content Type Slider" <--- another working title
This slider/buttons determines whether the content is raw exploration, or is tied to a Reputation system. The difference being that Specific Reputation missions are generated, if so chosen. i.e. Omega button/slider setting generates Genesis Missions which rewards Omega Reputation rewards.
"Randomize"
This button randomizes the above sliders.
Bottom line is, the system needs variety to be "interesting".
Yeah, Anarchy online random missions are the BEST missions i've ever played. It's fun every time and the rewards are nice too. (Clicksaver)
But honestly i cannot imagine Cryptic being able to implement it.
from what i remember there are missions:
- find and save person
- find and kill person
- go to a base/dungeon - bring something
- go to a base, hide, listen to what is being sad, return with information
- go somewhere, kill 10 of it
...
and there are always lootable chests. in AO, there are also random dungeons, where you'll NEVER get the same dungeon twice. and god, these are HUGE! you can grind there for HOURS. think i have to log in a little
they also have dailies (alien dailies, dungeon dailies), lootable minibosses on the world map
there are long missions which open certain perks ( obtain transwarp key to a location(garden), fixer grid access, which are funny and make sense )
had to do it twice cause i haven't found the Dancing Fool in the Baboons in time then i stayed and danced with him a little while enjoying some alcoholic beverages oh memories..
... Most importiantly, every mission done or action done in the exploration areas should give exploration experience.
/this
0 - give us an exploration reputation
1 - let people do special exploration foundry missions in an contest
2 - people would get exploration points for playing them (and voting on them)
3 - take the best 5 every month, add them to the random generator
4 - let there be RANDOM stuff obtainable on the planets/systems we visit (even MK XII stuff, Alien Artifacts, crafting mats, or Fleet Ship Modules and lobis (they should be VERY rare, but there should be the option to get them), and also a pile of unusable junk)
5 - you could add random space anomalies (wormholes) to get us from normal sector space to these exploration zones, implemented in the same way as Red Alerts,
after you finish the mission, you would transwarp back to the location you started.
Comments
Hate to quote myself, but there was another reply... This idea is really what you should do, period. Just hire a person (or persons) to use pre-existing assets, and create missions unrelated to the main storyline. I guess this is sort of what the Foundry does, but this way the writer is actually there to have their stories vetted by Kestrel (and CBS?).
I still don't understand Cryptic's insistence that every new set of storyline missions (Featured Episodes) they release have new tech, or voiceovers, or whatever. Just use existing assets, create a bunch of missions, and let us play them. "Perfect is the enemy of the good" as they say.
Edit:
The problem there is that MMOs are built around the idea of repetition. Once the story is played out, in a single player game, you're done. In an MMO, there has to be something to come back to, whether that's PvP or building starbases. There's a column about EVE that addresses that concern: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132877/the_icelandic_model_of_mmo_.php?print=1
Looking at that again, perhaps I was wrong - perhaps trying to bang out a ton of missions isn't the right way to do it. There's got to be some other system, that's more engaging than Genesis, that will draw players in and allow them to "explore" without getting stale.
Exploring caves.... old technology... ruins...
When i look at Mass Effect 1 ...those horrible annoying side planets where you could only drive around in that Tank thingy... where you searched the whole map for things of worth, something to mine, something to shoot.... THAT was exploration... and something like that could be easily randomized.
We have EVA suits now... we could explore low grav Asteroids, hostile Enviroments etc. before we could technically only visit M-Class Planets.
Also... Exploration should take longer. Those click 5 clicky missions are not entertaining and get repetitive real fast.
Also... DO NOT TELL ME that there are 5 clickies -> give me a map, where i have to scan / search etc. there might be 20 good things there might be none, it is called exploration for a reason, how would anybody know that there are 5 of what i want?
It could have a lot more to do with Crafting.
I think that was also the intention before... Exploration Maps mostly have anomalies in every map = crafting materials. Today, we just hammer out some Sci and Explo DOff Assignments and get our supply that way.
So.... revamping Exploration really has to go hand in hand with revamping Crafting (the DOff UI would probably be exploited for this too, think Mk XII Console Crafting here -> everything by chance).
And to make Crafting interesting again, we need more interesting Items in the game than just ... Borg / Maco Set... Elite Fleet Phaser.... and everything being so damn pre-defined all the time. ...think more Diablo, multiple Stats, everything seems random, and there is ALWAYS the chance of getting something better.
And most important of all: the more you do it, the more efficient you have to get at it -> do more exploration, get better results at it, get passive bonusses to get more critical crafting mat drops... etc. do more crafting = get better chances at getting the good stuff
etc. etc.
The dozen or so templates is a problem, adding more is simple, it'd make it less boring.. for a time
Adding in foundry missions specifically for exploration would be a great thing. Getting something exploitative or broken is not fun
Fixing the shallow nature of programmable/repeatable scenarios is your major hurdle. You can't problem the unknown to be innovative, it can't play tricks, be intelligent or inspire real imagination. The foundry is probably the best way to do it, but controlling the foundry output is not easy.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
Unless of cause you want them to toss 2 years planning, and 7 months of development out the window?
Hooking up the Foundry to exploration zones may seem like a good way to flesh out the content, but it doesn't add anything that isn't already there; and it would make any new dev created exploration content less likely (since they'd be free to think 'Sorted!' after making the Foundry hookup and then never look at exploration again).
I could only see a Foundry hookup working out well if the chances of getting a Foundry mission were no greater than the chances of getting an 'Aid the Planet' mission or something; and a decent amount of new dev created content gets added into the mix as well.
This is an excellent point and summarizes a LOT of the problems related to this idea.
One thing to remember is that Star Trek shows were a) written by people, and b) you were not expected to interact with (and therefore could be rigidly scripted without problems), plus c) only occupied an hour, 25 times a year.
You are not going to get randomly generated "realistic" races or anything of the sort. You might get better randomly-generated scenarios, but when it comes right down to it, it's going to be basically video game MadLibs (although they could be pretty good).
There has been talk of integrating the Foundry into this somehow, IIRC, but I don't know the details.
However, major bottom line - Star Trek Online is about being in the Star Trek universe. Not necessarily doing what Picard did every week. People are a lot more likely to shell out cash to shoot Borg than spend hours with click-through diplomacy - which would rapidly grow pretty bizarre in MadLibs format.
Honestly I think the best that would be realistic would be a more diverse random-generated mission system combined with Foundry integration.
However if the Genesis system is like building lego, than the system needs all the building blocks you can possible think up, and which are currently technically possible in the game. (Think Gameplay mechanics here, Space walks, space combat, ground combat, BOFFs, DOFFs, objective interaction, repairing via BOFF abilities, NPC interactions, dialog, triggers ect ect ect.)
Once you have all the separate blocks, the system needs to be able to combine them in a variety of different ways.
Add on top of that different sliders to adjust the missions generated (Think Anarchy Online mission generator here).
Sliders could consist of the following
Diplomacy vs Force
This slider determines the amount of Dialog interaction which would be present in the generated mission.
Difficulty Slider
Overwrites the players set difficulty slider for Missions. Determines the difficulty and NPC dropped reward quality in the generated mission.
Space vs Ground
Determines the proportion of the mission which takes place in either Space or Ground. 0% Means there is only Space maps, where as 100% is pure ground maps.
XP vs Items
Slider which determines the distribution ratio of XP rewards contra Item drops/rewards from the mission objectives and NPC drops. Leveling up is more important to you? Set it all the way towards XP and receive no items. Items more important? Set it all the way the opposite way. Need both XP and items? Adjust it somewhere in between the two absolutes.
"Obscurity vs Clarity" <-- working title ;P
Slider determines if objectives requires more exploration and subtlety, or whether they are more directly accessible.
"Content Type Slider" <--- another working title
This slider/buttons determines whether the content is raw exploration, or is tied to a Reputation system. The difference being that Specific Reputation missions are generated, if so chosen. i.e. Omega button/slider setting generates Genesis Missions which rewards Omega Reputation rewards.
"Randomize"
This button randomizes the above sliders.
Bottom line is, the system needs variety to be "interesting".
I think once people narrow down a specific set of episodes that embody the exploration of Star Trek, it might be easier to figure out where to go. Would it mean more scripted missions (and hiring a write specifically for them)? Or would it mean an expansion of Genesis and random generation?
Well, the first one that pops into my head is 'The Ship' (DS9). That's the one where Sisko and company are conducting a planetary survey when a Jemmy battle-bug crashes nearby.
i would like to see foundry missions of a high caliber, when they hit a level of certain threshhold of popularity be locked down by cryptic, restore the foundry slot to the author, and have the dev team and writers contact the author to "polish" the mission to a high shine and placed into the game as exploration missions.
Yeah, Anarchy online random missions are the BEST missions i've ever played. It's fun every time and the rewards are nice too. (Clicksaver)
But honestly i cannot imagine Cryptic being able to implement it.
from what i remember there are missions:
- find and save person
- find and kill person
- go to a base/dungeon - bring something
- go to a base, hide, listen to what is being sad, return with information
- go somewhere, kill 10 of it
...
and there are always lootable chests. in AO, there are also random dungeons, where you'll NEVER get the same dungeon twice. and god, these are HUGE! you can grind there for HOURS. think i have to log in a little
they also have dailies (alien dailies, dungeon dailies), lootable minibosses on the world map
there are long missions which open certain perks ( obtain transwarp key to a location(garden), fixer grid access, which are funny and make sense )
here a link to a very nice mission: http://www.ao-universe.com/index.php?id=14&mid=10&site=AO-Universe%2FKnowledge%2FClassic+AO%2FQuests+Guides%2F&pid=30
had to do it twice cause i haven't found the Dancing Fool in the Baboons in time
AO rocks!
/this
0 - give us an exploration reputation
1 - let people do special exploration foundry missions in an contest
2 - people would get exploration points for playing them (and voting on them)
3 - take the best 5 every month, add them to the random generator
4 - let there be RANDOM stuff obtainable on the planets/systems we visit (even MK XII stuff, Alien Artifacts, crafting mats, or Fleet Ship Modules and lobis (they should be VERY rare, but there should be the option to get them), and also a pile of unusable junk)
5 - you could add random space anomalies (wormholes) to get us from normal sector space to these exploration zones, implemented in the same way as Red Alerts,
after you finish the mission, you would transwarp back to the location you started.