Take, for example, my hypothetical Gorn faction. Previously integrated into the Klingon Empire, the Gorn are now in a state of overt rebellion against the Klingons. Some Gorn have decided to ally with the KDF. Some Gorn are striking out on their own and seeking support from the Federation.
Once that happens they cease to be a single faction. At best, they are two factions split from one species. At worst, they simply are absorbed into the mutually exclusive factions they join. But they are not one unified faction.
My point is that that's not true. It doesn't make sense to require that a faction have total galactic independence. Having a faction doesn't require adding another side- going from a triangular war to a square war to a pentagonal war. It's both impractical from a gameplay perspective and unnecessary from a story perspective.
Take, for example, my hypothetical Gorn faction. Previously integrated into the Klingon Empire, the Gorn are now in a state of overt rebellion against the Klingons. Some Gorn have decided to ally with the KDF. Some Gorn are striking out on their own and seeking support from the Federation. They have access to the technology and facilities of their allies, because they are allies. But they are not subordinate to their allies. In the same vein, however, the Gorn have no desire or intention to strike out on their own as a totally independent organization to declare war on both the Klingons and the Federation. That doesn't advance their particular goals.
My last point is that the faction requires some independence, but it also requires a compelling way to integrate into galactic civilization. The Romulans have that independence, and there are plenty of ways I can imagine to make it work, story-wise. There's simply no reasonable benefit for the Romulans at this stage in their societal development to get into a three-way conflict with the Federation and the Klingons (plus their own remnant species). We already have the background woven together for the New Romulan Republic to play the Federation and the Klingons against each other as allies: and that's exactly what they're doing.
You are looking at it with the lore of Star Trek in mind, I get it. I am looking at from a gamer's viewpoint having played other mmos. What we are getting with the Romulans is a race choice with its own unique content that two existing factions players can play on their repective sides. Its not a faction in game terms, its not a team of players working together in the game or sharing common idenity of being on Team Green. Many Romulan players wanted a team of their own, but its not what we are getting.
You are looking at it with the lore of Star Trek in mind, I get it. I am looking at from a gamer's viewpoint having played other mmos.
Not in the slightest.
What I am telling you is this: the definition of a 'faction' is not well-established in MMOs. There's a fundamental difference between the 'factions' in, say, EVE Online and World of ********, or War Thunder and Blacklight: Retribution. STO is in a different position than any of those, based simply on how the game is played.
The definition of a 'faction' depends heavily on what type of game you're building and what kind of game the players are playing.
In STO terms, I see no reason why creating n*-gonal PVP is necessary to make something a "faction". It just doesn't have anything to do with the game at all.
You say that Romulan players aren't getting a "team of their own", but that's exactly what they're getting. They have unique ships, unique factional elements, a unique story and position in the universe. That is a unique team.
Look, UFP and KDF ships can cross-factional team in STFs. If we remove all PVP content from the game, does that suddenly mean there's only one faction in the game because they're all on one 'team'?
Edit: Wait, why is [the biggest MMORPG in the world] bleeped out?
You say that Romulan players aren't getting a "team of their own", but that's exactly what they're getting. They have unique ships, unique factional elements, a unique story and position in the universe. That is a unique team.
No, it's not. The Los Angeles Dodgers and Boston Red Sox are teams, but the pool of independent free agents is not. Zack Greinke was not his own team, not before he signed with the Dodgers, and certainly not after.
If the Dodgers stopped playing their own games, and all the Dodger players went to play for other teams in their games, then the Dodgers cease to exist as a team.
You say that Romulan players aren't getting a "team of their own", but that's exactly what they're getting. They have unique ships, unique factional elements, a unique story and position in the universe. That is a unique team.
If the Romulan Faction was getting a team of its own I would be able to join a fleet and group for PvP with any other Romulan regardless of any choice they made at level 10.
If the Romulan Faction was getting a team of its own I would be able to join a fleet and group for PvP with any other Romulan regardless of any choice they made at level 10.
Why? Why is this either: a) important, or b) relevant?
Does the fact that STFs are cross-factional teamed somehow demean the 'faction' value of the UFP and the KDF?
Does the fact that you can do KDF v. KDF PVP somehow make the KDF less of a 'faction'?
There's no story reason why this would be meaningful. More to the point, it's a terrible idea for game purposes. KDF queues are already bad; you want to add a third faction which would inevitably make them worse?
What I am telling you is this: the definition of a 'faction' is not well-established in MMOs. There's a fundamental difference between the 'factions' in, say, EVE Online and World of ********, or War Thunder and Blacklight: Retribution. STO is in a different position than any of those, based simply on how the game is played.
The definition of a 'faction' depends heavily on what type of game you're building and what kind of game the players are playing.
In STO terms, I see no reason why creating n*-gonal PVP is necessary to make something a "faction". It just doesn't have anything to do with the game at all.
You say that Romulan players aren't getting a "team of their own", but that's exactly what they're getting. They have unique ships, unique factional elements, a unique story and position in the universe. That is a unique team.
Look, UFP and KDF ships can cross-factional team in STFs. If we remove all PVP content from the game, does that suddenly mean there's only one faction in the game because they're all on one 'team'?
Edit: Wait, why is [the biggest MMORPG in the world] bleeped out?
Unique content to a Race does not mean a team. You are teamed with fed and Kdf players in their fleets, not with Romulan players in their own fleets. There are pve servers in other mmos that keep the factions sperated and players like it that way. Try telling Horde and alliance players in WoW they had to play together in mixed guilds and queues for pve and pvp, they would go nuts on forums ranting about it. Being apart of your own faction(team) is what we(those that agree with me) wanted with the Romulans.
Unique content to a Race does not mean a team. You are teamed with fed and Kdf players in their fleets, not with Romulan players in their own fleets. There are pve servers in other mmos that keep the factions sperated and players like it that way. Try telling Horde and alliance players in WoW they had to play together in mixed guilds and queues for pve and pvp, they would go nuts on forums ranting about it. Being apart of your own faction(team) is what we(those that agree with me) wanted with the Romulans.
oh ya horde and ally would......soooooo love that............ NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're intentionally ignoring what we're saying regarding fleets, we can't form our own fleets with other members of our racial grouping, that alone means we're not a faction.
Why? Why is this either: a) important, or b) relevant?
Does the fact that STFs are cross-factional teamed somehow demean the 'faction' value of the UFP and the KDF?
Does the fact that you can do KDF v. KDF PVP somehow make the KDF less of a 'faction'?
There's no story reason why this would be meaningful. More to the point, it's a terrible idea for game purposes. KDF queues are already bad; you want to add a third faction which would inevitably make them worse?
Like the Romulan Alliance System? Of course you do, it sounds fine to you because you aren't Romulans, you're FED or KDF who are going to make a Romulan alt, it makes a HUGE difference in perspective.
You might not be a faction if?you make a choice at lvl10 and can no longer visit the Sirius sector block.
You might not be a faction if?your social hub and main planet can be regularly visited by opposing factions.
You might not be a faction if?you put together a faction fleet and wind up building another faction?s starbase.
You might not be a faction if?you crew your duty officer missions with another faction?s duty officers.
You might not be a faction if: The developers and others have to continually remind you that you are indeed a faction.
You might not be a faction if: Your forum title says Starfleet/Empire veteran.
You might not be a faction if: You need to post your faction?s gameplay in another faction?s gameplay forum.
You might not be a faction if: One of the upcoming teasers includes the possibility of having a faction specific lockbox that gives access to faction specific items to opposing factions.
You're intentionally ignoring what we're saying regarding fleets, we can't form our own fleets with other members of our racial grouping, that alone means we're not a faction.
Ah, so all the QQ-ing about PVP is meaningless, then? Good to know.
Fine then, fleets. First, what you've said isn't true. As I read it, there's no reason why you couldn't create a fleet and populate it only with Romulan players.
Problem solved, yes?
Besides, that's not what you mean anyway. The Federation can't create "fleets" limited to only Humans, either. It has nothing to do with race and character generation is almost totally racially agnostic; anyone can roll an alien of any description and traits.
You are not a faction when your login screen say "KDF/Federation" when you are not one of them.
You are not a faction when you queue for either federation or KDF. And are not one of them.
Comments
Once that happens they cease to be a single faction. At best, they are two factions split from one species. At worst, they simply are absorbed into the mutually exclusive factions they join. But they are not one unified faction.
You are looking at it with the lore of Star Trek in mind, I get it. I am looking at from a gamer's viewpoint having played other mmos. What we are getting with the Romulans is a race choice with its own unique content that two existing factions players can play on their repective sides. Its not a faction in game terms, its not a team of players working together in the game or sharing common idenity of being on Team Green. Many Romulan players wanted a team of their own, but its not what we are getting.
Not in the slightest.
What I am telling you is this: the definition of a 'faction' is not well-established in MMOs. There's a fundamental difference between the 'factions' in, say, EVE Online and World of ********, or War Thunder and Blacklight: Retribution. STO is in a different position than any of those, based simply on how the game is played.
The definition of a 'faction' depends heavily on what type of game you're building and what kind of game the players are playing.
In STO terms, I see no reason why creating n*-gonal PVP is necessary to make something a "faction". It just doesn't have anything to do with the game at all.
You say that Romulan players aren't getting a "team of their own", but that's exactly what they're getting. They have unique ships, unique factional elements, a unique story and position in the universe. That is a unique team.
Look, UFP and KDF ships can cross-factional team in STFs. If we remove all PVP content from the game, does that suddenly mean there's only one faction in the game because they're all on one 'team'?
Edit: Wait, why is [the biggest MMORPG in the world] bleeped out?
No, it's not. The Los Angeles Dodgers and Boston Red Sox are teams, but the pool of independent free agents is not. Zack Greinke was not his own team, not before he signed with the Dodgers, and certainly not after.
If the Dodgers stopped playing their own games, and all the Dodger players went to play for other teams in their games, then the Dodgers cease to exist as a team.
If the Romulan Faction was getting a team of its own I would be able to join a fleet and group for PvP with any other Romulan regardless of any choice they made at level 10.
I cannot therefore a faction it is not.
Does the fact that STFs are cross-factional teamed somehow demean the 'faction' value of the UFP and the KDF?
Does the fact that you can do KDF v. KDF PVP somehow make the KDF less of a 'faction'?
There's no story reason why this would be meaningful. More to the point, it's a terrible idea for game purposes. KDF queues are already bad; you want to add a third faction which would inevitably make them worse?
Unique content to a Race does not mean a team. You are teamed with fed and Kdf players in their fleets, not with Romulan players in their own fleets. There are pve servers in other mmos that keep the factions sperated and players like it that way. Try telling Horde and alliance players in WoW they had to play together in mixed guilds and queues for pve and pvp, they would go nuts on forums ranting about it. Being apart of your own faction(team) is what we(those that agree with me) wanted with the Romulans.
oh ya horde and ally would......soooooo love that............ NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
system Lord Baal is dead
lol :rolleyes:
KDF is a faction.
Romulan Republic is not a faction.
You might not be a faction if?you make a choice at lvl10 and can no longer visit the Sirius sector block.
You might not be a faction if?your social hub and main planet can be regularly visited by opposing factions.
You might not be a faction if?you put together a faction fleet and wind up building another faction?s starbase.
You might not be a faction if?you crew your duty officer missions with another faction?s duty officers.
My character Tsin'xing
You have a mind of your own, so decide for yourself.
You might not be a faction if: Your forum title says Starfleet/Empire veteran.
You might not be a faction if: You need to post your faction?s gameplay in another faction?s gameplay forum.
You might not be a faction if: One of the upcoming teasers includes the possibility of having a faction specific lockbox that gives access to faction specific items to opposing factions.
Cryptic/PWE and some players always win, my opinion don't count so...:(
(oh, and 10 chars)
...at end-game there is just the Red Team and Blue Team while you're Green.
Ah, so all the QQ-ing about PVP is meaningless, then? Good to know.
Fine then, fleets. First, what you've said isn't true. As I read it, there's no reason why you couldn't create a fleet and populate it only with Romulan players.
Problem solved, yes?
Besides, that's not what you mean anyway. The Federation can't create "fleets" limited to only Humans, either. It has nothing to do with race and character generation is almost totally racially agnostic; anyone can roll an alien of any description and traits.
You are not a faction when you queue for either federation or KDF. And are not one of them.
The Klingons are a sub-par faction.
The Romulans are less than that.