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What is a faction?
anazonda
Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
I think it's about time we get that cleared up:
Simple question: What makes a faction in STO?
Edit from my 2'nd post:
Simple question: What makes a faction in STO?
Edit from my 2'nd post:
Let's for the purpose of avoiding trigger happy mods, avoid the entire "Is Rom a faction", and just focus on defining a faction.
I'd hate to see this thread merged into another, because they once again can't differentiated between topics, just because it might get a little side-tracked.
I see where you are going, and I would lie, if I said that my OP wasn't based on the ongoing discussion, but lets for the purpose of current, and future, factions try to focus on the term "Faction" alone.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideaspwebranflakes wrote: »Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
Post edited by anazonda on
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exclusive missions
exclusive ships and costumes
romulans have all 3 of those, but KDF and FEd have more
It would be a group with shared beliefs and goals
The soon coming romulans loose all that independence as soon as they get ripped in 2 and have to join another faction in their 'war'. How do they have shared beliefs? when romulan A chooses the federation and romulan B chooses the Klingon defence force ? And romulan A and B become enemies?!???
2 very clear things at the heart of a factions foundations are broken. Romulan A and B are not unified and they are meant to be in the same faction.
Yeah makes no sense at all. So you can't call the romulans a 3rd faction of it's own.
I'd hate to see this thread merged into another, because they once again can't differentiated between topics, just because it might get a little side-tracked.
I see where you are going, and I would lie, if I said that my OP wasn't based on the ongoing discussion, but lets for the purpose of current, and future, factions try to focus on the term "Faction" alone.
A faction has its own queues for STFs and PvP, and isn't forced to sign up for another faction's queues. Even if those queues end up being cross-faction in general.
A faction has its own fleets and starbases, its own PvP objectives, as opposed to just fighting for the objectives of the other factions.
A faction has its own identity, and isn't just fodder to fill in for the two "important" factions.
The only thing the Romulans don't have is unique fleet holdings but do they really need them right now? Is that enough for all the rage and horrible comments directed at Dan in the AskCryptic thread?
From what I can see, Romulans have completely unique content from 1-40 and after that slip into the usual FE episodes that everyone plays, that seems fine to me.
It's a faction and the negatives to this arrangement can be fixed over time no problem.
{UFP}Thomas45 - Thomas Nixon U.S.S. Majesty Unbound
You see, you are all citizens (not soldiers or Tal Shiar as stated by Dan). Your character wants whats best for New Romulus and your character might decide that the Klingons can provide the military support to bolster its footing in the galaxy. Or you might decide that only with the friendship of the Federation can New Romulus successfully begin trading with outside worlds again
Though from my own character story, I'm going to immerse myself in the beliefe that I'm actually just spying on the Feds
I'm rather looking forward to being the New Romulan Republic, and everything I read about them makes me happier and happier
Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird
Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
TEN FORWARD FLEET
That overly triggerhappy mod ... loves destroying threads... Especially mine, so I beg you... JUST define a faction.
well, using the examples I gave above I *meant* to convey that I believe it is story content that makes a faction. To me a faction is about a race of people working toward a shared goal.
Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird
Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
TEN FORWARD FLEET
I am aware that the Feds have Klingons on their team as well (and KDF have Trills) , but they too fall into the category of either 'traitor' or 'mercenary' .
That , plus there is no Klingon faction that has to decide by Level 10 if they want to play as mercenary's (ooppps , I mean "allies") of the Feds or the Romulans .
Nor do we have a Federation faction that has to decide by Level 10 if they want to play as mercenary's of the KDF or the Dominion .
Also , a faction is a standard base entity that meets whatever qualifications were set by (in this case) the gaming company .
In our case , it was :
- The ability to create and own a Fleet .
- Owning a Starbase (with the option of developing said Starbase)
Had some other prerequisites been established by the gaming company -- then they would have been the standard .
As it is , we cannot blame ourselfs for the standards we did not choose . Cryptic can blame themselves for that -- but they won't ... .
Factions and races can coincide, but this is not necessary. STO and WoW have multi racial factions.
You don't need factions for PvP. DDO and Guildwars don't have factions, as I remember. In Guildwars, the guilds were the factions.
All in all I consider factions as a game mechanic, an aspect with not much meaning since I am in a stance that I play a character that plays a role in a world. At the core of my idea that the faction is an element of the game lies the fact that as a character I have to chose a faction, a side, and I can never change that, ever, unless I reroll and make a new character. You cannot be neutral, you cannot change.
And yet we had City of Heroes/Villains that introduced a neutral faction (Praetoria) and included a means for faction switching through a series of missions where your character could change over time. It was well received and even requested for quite some time in that game.
For me, endgame means Foundry or rolling a new character. I'm not interested in raids or PvP. Having 40 levels of faction-specific content means I have a real new faction to play.
For others, storyline/episodic content is that annoying thing that gets in the way of reaching endgame, or at least its just viewed as "training" for endgame. Even this group may be split between those who don't care who they are allied with as long as they get to participate in endgame activities. They may consider themselves Reunificationists and ally with one side, or Tal-Shiar and ally with the other to strike back at the traitors of the Empire.
One thing that is missing in all of the new faction discussions is that we were told early on that we might be restricted to mini-factions. These might start at high level and then choose sides for endgame. This is not a new concept, it is not a surprise. We were told this.
Instead, Cryptic put out the effort to create a more unique faction with as much content at the start as the Federation had at release. We will have to choose allies early, but unless you choose to play allied missions, that really doesn't kick in until endgame.
So, for endgame we get the type of mini-faction that has been discussed all along (for now), but we get the experience of playing our own unique storyline with its own unique flavor until then.
noun
1. a group or clique within a larger group, party, government, organization, or the like: a faction in favor of big business.
2. party strife and intrigue; dissension: an era of faction and treason.
The term is so broad that it is hardly worthwhile to define this in more detail, or even to argue.
If Starbases or not, or something similar isn't in relation to this.
While the rolleyes was unnessacary, one thing has been proven over time: What the devs think is not the ultimate answer, and given enough time they will change their minds if enough people are outspoken enough.
Examples of this is the Carrier for KDF only, Death penalty/Difficulty levels will never be, STO is not going F2P, KDF as a PvP only faction... Theese are all things once said by Devs and Cryptic... yet look at the game now.
But you are right of cause...
This is in fact what I am fishing for... There will never be 100% consensus... I am fully aware of it, but right now the conversation is alive and kicking, but only focused on the Romulans.
If we can at least lay out the road, make it easier to see it, we might avoid a similar storm in the future.
That and the fact that I am extremely curious about what peoples responses will be.
This is what makes a faction:
Level 1-50 content
Unique playable species
Own epiosdes
Own backstory
Own ships
Own home base
Own uniforms
Distinct UI style
The above equals the Fed KDF AND Rom to each be a faction.
So a new faction, say Cardassians, would have to unite under the romulan banner too?
They would be on team Green and not be independent or they be a team Brown/Gold. Factions are teams to me, a side you chose to play and group of people that chose that side to play with. If all the Romulan players are split up its not a team too me.
Well in that case, I appolegize...
Or simply a group of people acting together. We didn't get a new faction; we got two.
Not being restricted from any of the forms of group play with any other member of your faction.
Being able to group queue for any content, including PvP, with any member of your faction.
Being able to join a fleet with any member of your faction.
Being able to access all major game systems as part of your faction.
Take the Vulcans. They have a ship, they have a location in the game, they have character models. Are they a faction? I would say no. Same is true of, say, the Orions or even the Humans.
I will say this, then, and particularly for STO:
1. A unique color scheme for the UI. It may seem like a small thing, but it definitely is a thing.
2. Unique playable characters- uniforms, ranks, character creation options.
3. A set of ships that share similar, identifiable characteristics that can be easily distinguished at a glance. The Federation have their "saucer and nacelles", the Klingons have their "green and red birds of prey", and the Romulans have their "glowing green wings and warbirds". However, the faction does not have to be limited to only these ships. The Klingons quite reasonably integrate the Gorn and the Orions. The Federation quite reasonably integrate the Vulcans and the Catians.
4. At least some kind of unique territory, ideally with some kind of unique zone. There's no one model for this. The Federation has ESD and the Academy; the Klingons have the First City, an Orbital Shipyard, and the Klingon Academy. Hypothetically, the Romulans could have a single integrated social/academy/shipyard zone- in the Vault, say. In fact, making them carbon copies of them is a bad idea.
5. Some kind of compelling reason for them to behave independently, and yet integrate into galactic society in a meaningful way. I don't think this necessitates total factional independence, or that the entire 'race' that comprises the faction must behave in a specific way. I could see, for example, the Gorn eventually becoming an independent faction in a "Gorn Civil War", with some Gorn choosing to go KDF and some Gorn choosing to go Federation (or Romulan, or whatever).
So that's what I'd say.
I will use WoW's Panda race as a example.
1,2 &3. The Panda's have unique look and race traits that make them different then the other races in wow. They have mounts , clothes ,ect..
4. Panda's have their own missions, social hubs, their own lands in game.
5. Key points here, Panda Race is not independent in game, they still have to pick a faction(side) in game. A faction is a team, STO have two FEDS and KDF, Romulans have to chose which team they go on.
Romulans are a race choice for two existing factions with their own content. Its not a faction in the mmo game since. I have never seen a race split between two other factions in any other mmo and be called a faction of its own.
This set-up is great a existing player-base that wanted to play Romulan alts with their fleets and friends on the faction they chose to play(like the Panda players going Horde or Alliance in WoW to play with their friends and Guilds). Its however not a faction , no fleets, no starbases, no player unity means no Green Team.
My point is that that's not true. It doesn't make sense to require that a faction have total galactic independence. Having a faction doesn't require adding another side- going from a triangular war to a square war to a pentagonal war. It's both impractical from a gameplay perspective and unnecessary from a story perspective.
Take, for example, my hypothetical Gorn faction. Previously integrated into the Klingon Empire, the Gorn are now in a state of overt rebellion against the Klingons. Some Gorn have decided to ally with the KDF. Some Gorn are striking out on their own and seeking support from the Federation. They have access to the technology and facilities of their allies, because they are allies. But they are not subordinate to their allies. In the same vein, however, the Gorn have no desire or intention to strike out on their own as a totally independent organization to declare war on both the Klingons and the Federation. That doesn't advance their particular goals.
My last point is that the faction requires some independence, but it also requires a compelling way to integrate into galactic civilization. The Romulans have that independence, and there are plenty of ways I can imagine to make it work, story-wise. There's simply no reasonable benefit for the Romulans at this stage in their societal development to get into a three-way conflict with the Federation and the Klingons (plus their own remnant species). We already have the background woven together for the New Romulan Republic to play the Federation and the Klingons against each other as allies: and that's exactly what they're doing.