There is no way that the Fed shield heal will ever be as good as -25% shield resistance debuff on what is already a fantastic proc (- hull resistance).
The Fed and KDF elite fleet weapon procs are not balanced very well in general, nor vs. each other.
Still waiting for a suggestion on what FEds should get...
Agreed, I think they are way out out of balance with everything else available atm.
Do we have confirmation on the following?
> Do they stack from a single user?
> Do they stack from multiple users?
> How do they stack? (multiplicative or additive)
1 person healing themselves with a 2.5% proc (that may or may not have have some kind of 10s CD) is not as strong as a -25% resistance debuff that has the potential to be maintained perpetually magnifying the damage of 5 players.
If both procs were available to both factions, the -25% shield resistance would most likely be universally adopted.
Needing to blow an entire cast of ST, a skill on 15s SCD, to counter a spammable 2.5% proc is a massive win for the proc bearer - who does nothing to get that proc beyond slot the weapon.
Hmm reminds me of somthing 2.5% sbsystem disbale proc, cleared by eng team.... hmmmm?
So since nothing so far has a stopped the power creep that systems deems WAD. I suggest that Fed get something equally silly, but different. Since OP procs is the new name of the game.
So since nothing so far has a stopped the power creep that systems deems WAD. I suggest that Fed get something equally silly, but different. Since OP procs is the new name of the game.
What? The idea that the defensively designed pfeds can build a proc spamming self heal while it shoots support tank cruisers isnt silly enough?
What? The idea that the defensively designed pfeds can build a proc spamming self heal while it shoots support tank cruisers isnt silly enough?
is it? Dunno, here is some more defense, and resists for everyone.
For as long as Gecko is in charge of these decisions, i don't expect a single balanced item to be released. New Doff pack coming up, new C-store ships....fun times indeed. ONe OP thing after the other, lets just hope everybody gets to T5 soon, so we can shoot with more Op toys at each other. INstead of having the clear advantage over new players, WAD!
For my 2 cents worth w/o knowing all the mechanics of the proc, it's another item in an increasingly long line of time gated power creep. It seems to counter the Fleet shields' Adaptive proc (again I'm not sure of the mechanics, but more a general observation).
The issue is what about players who don't have access to or would prefer to choose to not to use Fleet shields? It seems to break down to A(newest powercreep) is needed to counter B(2nd newest powercreep). But, A used on C(older powercreep) can be devistating. Therefore, be prepared to always used A & B only or die fairly quickly to another player who can greatly outtank you. Not exactly fun to me.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
its what we get for not having 5 tac console escorts i guess :P
Honestly as a long time Klingon player... I find these weapons offensive.
For the same reason I found
Leach
Aceton
and
Theta
Offensive.
We get the short end of the the ship... every single superior fed release. It has been that way for a long time.
Then at some point Cryptic decided to make the Klingon faction more attractive by giving use the more OP toys.... its poor... and most important extremely LAZY balance.
I don't want fancy toys on my klingon toons... just on par ships so I can compete. The idea of a non gimick Klingon Pvp team... is pretty much long dead... thanks to all this JUNK they pile on my most loved faction.
This is one more reason for me to honestly HATE the current keepers of the IP.
How about thi: If the Fed proc is not doing it for ya, instead of getting the same as the KDF, come up with an alternative for the FED procs.
Usually I'd agree, but I don't trust Cryptic not to come up with something roughly as powerful as a 25% shield resist debuff. Chances they'll come out with something that significantly under performs it, or something that is even more overpowered and bordering on broken. I also wouldn't want such a powerful proc to be yet another resist or defensive proc.
Honestly as a long time Klingon player... I find these weapons offensive.
For the same reason I found
Leach
Aceton
and
Theta
Offensive.
We get the short end of the the ship... every single superior fed release. It has been that way for a long time.
Then at some point Cryptic decided to make the Klingon faction more attractive by giving use the more OP toys.... its poor... and most important extremely LAZY balance.
I don't want fancy toys on my klingon toons... just on par ships so I can compete. The idea of a non gimick Klingon Pvp team... is pretty much long dead... thanks to all this JUNK they pile on my most loved faction.
This is one more reason for me to honestly HATE the current keepers of the IP.
Ok rant off.
As someone that only PvPs very casually I too think its a shame the way Cryptic tries to skew things back to some sort of balance and the way it tries to entice players into the KDF is shamefull. As much as my kdf farmer alts benefit my fed main I'd have preferred if they'd never been necessary at all.
Its only good for causing frustration on both sides. I think the idea is to get feds to buy more ships and for KDF to buy into fleet bases. That way everyone is nicely funneled into revenue generating streams appropriate for them, yay!!
I was disappointed when I heard the news on these weapons. It seems that the klink one negates the 25% resist from Res B Elite Shields, thereby pretty much forcing everyone who plays klink to use the weapons and shields to balance each other out. For the feds a heal proc? On weapons? I was really hoping for [ACC]x2 [Whatever you want]x2. Since the new thing seems to be procs though, how about a drain resistance proc? Something like [ACC]x2 [CrtH/D/Dmg] [Resist] where resist is a 2.5% chance to resist -2 drain. The tech already exists from the Marion DOff. They could exchange out all the ones that have been bought from the bases already and free people up to run whatever shields/sets they want again klink side. As far as the disruptor for klinks and phaser for feds go, I like it. It points people back towards their faction specific energy types.
Honestly as a long time Klingon player... I find these weapons offensive.
For the same reason I found
Leach
Aceton
and
Theta
Offensive.
We get the short end of the the ship... every single superior fed release. It has been that way for a long time.
Then at some point Cryptic decided to make the Klingon faction more attractive by giving use the more OP toys.... its poor... and most important extremely LAZY balance.
I don't want fancy toys on my klingon toons... just on par ships so I can compete. The idea of a non gimick Klingon Pvp team... is pretty much long dead... thanks to all this JUNK they pile on my most loved faction.
This is one more reason for me to honestly HATE the current keepers of the IP.
I don't only queue for FvF, and I think you missed the point.
The point is that there is quite a lot of teeth gnashing and hand wringing over what "feds" got, but realistically in the current game feds face more feds than kdf probably do.
On the other hand, with the advent of something like this disruptor proc, KDF will continue to face more Feds than they face other KDF.
A dynamic that exists due to what antonio described above:
"The idea of a non gimick Klingon Pvp team... is pretty much long dead"
A dynamic that exists due to what antonio described above:
"The idea of a non gimick Klingon Pvp team... is pretty much long dead"
i prove that wrong every time i play my kdf characters. unless DHCs pared with a torp are a gimic. its to bad there are scum bags running around with all the P2W TRIBBLE they can slot, carriers with 2 hangers worth of interceptors, and invisible brels that crypic still hasnt actually fixed yet. but theres plenty of fair play to be had.
the worst gimmick TRIBBLE is cross faction too actually. how about sci ships? those are legitimate gimmick throwers, thers next to no answer to that, except to resort to illegitimate gimmicks to counter.
feds can kill each other all they want with their beter stuff, doesn't change the fact that there is not parity when kdf face fed. maybe there would not be as much cheese used if there was more even footing.
i prove that wrong every time i play my kdf characters. unless DHCs pared with a torp are a gimic. its to bad there are scum bags running around with all the P2W TRIBBLE they can slot, carriers with 2 hangers worth of interceptors, and invisible brels that crypic still hasnt actually fixed yet. but theres plenty of fair play to be had.
I agree, and I didn't mean to imply you did.
I've never had the chance to fight with or against you, but I've never seen you do anything but advocate clean play.
i prove that wrong every time i play my kdf characters. unless DHCs pared with a torp are a gimic. its to bad there are scum bags running around with all the P2W TRIBBLE they can slot, carriers with 2 hangers worth of interceptors, and invisible brels that crypic still hasnt actually fixed yet. but theres plenty of fair play to be had.
the worst gimmick TRIBBLE is cross faction too actually. how about sci ships? those are legitimate gimmick throwers, thers next to no answer to that, except to resort to illegitimate gimmicks to counter.
feds can kill each other all they want with their beter stuff, doesn't change the fact that there is not parity when kdf face fed. maybe there would not be as much cheese used if there was more even footing.
The worst gimmicky stuff is Cross faction NOW.
It wasn't at first.
At some point the feds WILL get the new gimmick Klink fleet weapons as well... its only a matter of time we all know it.
Either they or a weapon with a shield proc will work its way into a lock box. It will sell therefore Cryptic will sell it.
It seems to me they like to pile all the most terrible stuff on our Klinks first... like someone is worried about Klingon population numbers or something. Then after a few months they drop it on the fed side for a sales boost.
I agree there are klinks that play with out the crutches... I don't load leaches or acetons or thetas on my klinks when I play em. Still you have to admit there is NO way to que to pug as a klink that you won't end up on a team with someone and likey 4 other guys running at least one of them each.
Oh and for the record the tech doffs I think most people find a bit gimmicky as well. (I kid)
I wanna say that Dontdrunkimshoot is one of the best evul Klingun I've ever fought at Ker'rat or in the PvP queues...and one of the best players of Sto!
His prowess is equal to his honesty, both very high!:cool:
at the very least, you wont face gimics harsher then tech doffs, or cheese beyond what you can get from just station powers. if i beat someone, its most satisfying if its done honorably, and if i don't use anything someone else easily has access too for free. beating someone that cheeses with jump, ams, temperal TRIBBLE, runabouts and intercepters, feels soooo good.
also remember that wile there is no elite weapons other then phasers and disruptor now, there will eventually be. guarantied. and yes, eventually both sides will have access to all types of elite weapons.
at the very least, you wont face gimics harsher then tech doffs, or cheese beyond what you can get from just station powers. if i beat someone, its most satisfying if its done honorably, and if i don't use anything someone else easily has access too for free. beating someone that cheeses with jump, ams, temperal TRIBBLE, runabouts and intercepters, feels soooo good.
also remember that wile there is no elite weapons other then phasers and disruptor now, there will eventually be. guarantied. and yes, eventually both sides will have access to all types of elite weapons.
wheres my elite torps anyway?
Same here too...the joy of beating all that junk with nothing but off-the-exchange weapons with nothing but off the exchange generic shields, deflectors and engines is satisfying - no gimmicks, no cheese - just straight forward decloak and dagger fun in the fleet norgh (I missed the RA ship as I went for a vo'quv..a bad mistake as a tac)
The problem I see regarding the top heavy nature of sto is that a level one now has to, to be 'competetive' in pvp has to jump through so many time gated hoops that it will discourage even the most avid player- and those who do continue have to pay through the nose for the latest and greatest gear.. Even so, getting stomped by elite and rep weapons, let alone having even a fully buffed tac alpha deflected by nothing but procs will deter even these players, especially those who cannot afford all those gimmick items and ships to catch up to the 'norm'
To me, all these shields, rep toys and such are nails in the coffin of pvp - If I didn't get such a kick out of besting those who use all the toys or knowing I'm the 'little -expletive- that that keeps cloaking just as I'm about to kill him', I'd give up on the cheese fondue of Kerrat - but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment
(Also...somewhat off topic, but a jem bugs jem 3pc set bonus...can it strip cloak as if it was a buff? I encountered one that kept stripping my cloak yet was using no other ability I could see)
(Also...somewhat off topic, but a jem bugs jem 3pc set bonus...can it strip cloak as if it was a buff? I encountered one that kept stripping my cloak yet was using no other ability I could see)
The jemhadar deflector has 2% stealth sight which means 2% the size of the entire map say map is 200km across that would 40km stealth sight. Not sure if that is actually how the game figures it, but it was explained to me like that. So the closer you get the increased chance they can see through your cloak, and shoot you. So no it doesn't strip cloak its the deflector that allows you to be seen.
The jemhadar deflector has 2% stealth sight which means 2% the size of the entire map say map is 200km across that would 40km stealth sight. Not sure if that is actually how the game figures it, but it was explained to me like that. So the closer you get the increased chance they can see through your cloak, and shoot you. So no it doesn't strip cloak its the deflector that allows you to be seen.
I think the precedence for this is from the DS9 episode with Kor's last appearance in the Star Trek franchise. The BOP squadron is returning from a raid in Cardassian space but is still being pursued by a Jem'hadar force that will eventually overtake them, despite the cloaks. Someway, somehow, the Dominion had some technique for finding these ships.
(Also...somewhat off topic, but a jem bugs jem 3pc set bonus...can it strip cloak as if it was a buff? I encountered one that kept stripping my cloak yet was using no other ability I could see)
If your talking about the weapon 1% chance to strip one buff with polaron... no it won't strip cloak... although unless your in a battle cloaking ship if he sees you at all and shoots you, you will red alert and drop out of cloak.
I think most likely they where using the sets bonus skill... Anti Proton Sweep which disables cloak just like Charged Particle Burst would.
The jemhadar deflector has 2% stealth sight which means 2% the size of the entire map say map is 200km across that would 40km stealth sight. Not sure if that is actually how the game figures it, but it was explained to me like that. So the closer you get the increased chance they can see through your cloak, and shoot you. So no it doesn't strip cloak its the deflector that allows you to be seen.
That's not how stealth sight works. Borticus was kind enough to explain it here, but the gist of it is that if the "+2% stealth sight" means that the fractional bonus to perception (the SDR/10000 value) is increased by 0.02, then you'd be able to see enemies from 2km farther away than normal.
The Elite fleet weapons are now balanced on both sides. FED:s are supposed to be more "tanky" and KDF is supposed to be "hit and run" style gameplay more or less. Only thing that gives KDF advantage in my opinion is a single console called Plasmonic Leech, with at least 6/9 in flow cap skills you will drain your enemies and keep your ALL energy levels near to max. I wish this module would remain KDF only though. FED:s also do not seem to spec much often into power & shield drain skills and BoFF abilities, also they forget too often to cross heal, but good FED teams you cannot kill their most tanky ship with 5 players shooting at it. The healing is simply too good. I only wish that Fleet shields, engines & deflector would get some graphics finally and there should be a deflector also for 10% engineering skills faster reload time & 5% faster tactical reload time. This "hate" coming from FED:s is totally unjustified and you can play with any weapon and do just fine. The +25% shield damage proc is just fine, as is the Phaser proc(s) healing & disabling. Sure for PvE the KDF one might be slightly better but there are even better PvE weapons, but for PvP the FED disabling proc especially if you invest some skillpoints into drain & disable skills it can be used offensively & can save you when defending and the healing proc is great for the slow fed cruisers that are tanking & healing in PvP.
Stop the whining please. KDF is underdeveloped faction still, so i would focus on real issues rather than a weapon proc that is gained after hard work of a Fleet and is one of the more rare weapons in use, most KDF:s i know do not even go the Elite Disruptor since they simply do not suit their gameplay. I use for example Romulan Plasma Accx2 & with omega set shield drain and on another toon i use Elite fleet disruptors. Both work just fine. I only dream i could have weapons that could heal my shields for my carriers.
So no more complaining, KDF is underdeveloped as it is and the Elite Disruptors with the shield proc are the only things decent that they get from building fleet base at tier 5. KDF gets only 2 & 1/2 ships for example at T5 shipyard, i forgot how many FED:s get but way more than KDF. Fleet Brel + Fleet Vo'Quv & Botrasqu <- can be bought with Zen.
So they both weapons serve a good purpose and lets keep at least some individuality in Elite Fleet weapons terms & otherwise troughout FED/KDF please....
Comments
How about you stop putting words in my mouth based on some endless grudge you seem to have against me?
I personally prefer the Disruptor -res hull proc, thanks for asking.
I didn't choose to have Elite fleet weapons be faction locked Phasers or Disruptors locked to their specific factions. I'm not happy about it.
I don't like either of these new procs, does that make it clear for you since you are incapable of reading the thread?
What I want, you clearly have absolutely no idea of and no inclination to listen to.
Reading any of my posts in this thread would have already shown you more than you have continually been wrong in assuming.
yup its stupid, then again "Jorf who already covered it" likes it to counter runaway resists.
Here you go all you posted, in the full. Not sure where the personal attacks are coming from....
... but here are some more.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
So since nothing so far has a stopped the power creep that systems deems WAD. I suggest that Fed get something equally silly, but different. Since OP procs is the new name of the game.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
What? The idea that the defensively designed pfeds can build a proc spamming self heal while it shoots support tank cruisers isnt silly enough?
R.I.P
For as long as Gecko is in charge of these decisions, i don't expect a single balanced item to be released. New Doff pack coming up, new C-store ships....fun times indeed. ONe OP thing after the other, lets just hope everybody gets to T5 soon, so we can shoot with more Op toys at each other. INstead of having the clear advantage over new players, WAD!
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Yeah, which are used more against other Feds than they are against KDF. :rolleyes:
The issue is what about players who don't have access to or would prefer to choose to not to use Fleet shields? It seems to break down to A(newest powercreep) is needed to counter B(2nd newest powercreep). But, A used on C(older powercreep) can be devistating. Therefore, be prepared to always used A & B only or die fairly quickly to another player who can greatly outtank you. Not exactly fun to me.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Honestly as a long time Klingon player... I find these weapons offensive.
For the same reason I found
Leach
Aceton
and
Theta
Offensive.
We get the short end of the the ship... every single superior fed release. It has been that way for a long time.
Then at some point Cryptic decided to make the Klingon faction more attractive by giving use the more OP toys.... its poor... and most important extremely LAZY balance.
I don't want fancy toys on my klingon toons... just on par ships so I can compete. The idea of a non gimick Klingon Pvp team... is pretty much long dead... thanks to all this JUNK they pile on my most loved faction.
This is one more reason for me to honestly HATE the current keepers of the IP.
Ok rant off.
Ironically their has been quite the migration to disruptors lately because everyone expects people to take Res A shields.
Usually I'd agree, but I don't trust Cryptic not to come up with something roughly as powerful as a 25% shield resist debuff. Chances they'll come out with something that significantly under performs it, or something that is even more overpowered and bordering on broken. I also wouldn't want such a powerful proc to be yet another resist or defensive proc.
if you only que up FvF thats your problem
As someone that only PvPs very casually I too think its a shame the way Cryptic tries to skew things back to some sort of balance and the way it tries to entice players into the KDF is shamefull. As much as my kdf farmer alts benefit my fed main I'd have preferred if they'd never been necessary at all.
Its only good for causing frustration on both sides. I think the idea is to get feds to buy more ships and for KDF to buy into fleet bases. That way everyone is nicely funneled into revenue generating streams appropriate for them, yay!!
Great post.
I don't only queue for FvF, and I think you missed the point.
The point is that there is quite a lot of teeth gnashing and hand wringing over what "feds" got, but realistically in the current game feds face more feds than kdf probably do.
On the other hand, with the advent of something like this disruptor proc, KDF will continue to face more Feds than they face other KDF.
A dynamic that exists due to what antonio described above:
"The idea of a non gimick Klingon Pvp team... is pretty much long dead"
i prove that wrong every time i play my kdf characters. unless DHCs pared with a torp are a gimic. its to bad there are scum bags running around with all the P2W TRIBBLE they can slot, carriers with 2 hangers worth of interceptors, and invisible brels that crypic still hasnt actually fixed yet. but theres plenty of fair play to be had.
the worst gimmick TRIBBLE is cross faction too actually. how about sci ships? those are legitimate gimmick throwers, thers next to no answer to that, except to resort to illegitimate gimmicks to counter.
feds can kill each other all they want with their beter stuff, doesn't change the fact that there is not parity when kdf face fed. maybe there would not be as much cheese used if there was more even footing.
I agree, and I didn't mean to imply you did.
I've never had the chance to fight with or against you, but I've never seen you do anything but advocate clean play.
i wish it would rub off better
The worst gimmicky stuff is Cross faction NOW.
It wasn't at first.
At some point the feds WILL get the new gimmick Klink fleet weapons as well... its only a matter of time we all know it.
Either they or a weapon with a shield proc will work its way into a lock box. It will sell therefore Cryptic will sell it.
It seems to me they like to pile all the most terrible stuff on our Klinks first... like someone is worried about Klingon population numbers or something. Then after a few months they drop it on the fed side for a sales boost.
I agree there are klinks that play with out the crutches... I don't load leaches or acetons or thetas on my klinks when I play em. Still you have to admit there is NO way to que to pug as a klink that you won't end up on a team with someone and likey 4 other guys running at least one of them each.
Oh and for the record the tech doffs I think most people find a bit gimmicky as well.
at the very least, you wont face gimics harsher then tech doffs, or cheese beyond what you can get from just station powers. if i beat someone, its most satisfying if its done honorably, and if i don't use anything someone else easily has access too for free. beating someone that cheeses with jump, ams, temperal TRIBBLE, runabouts and intercepters, feels soooo good.
also remember that wile there is no elite weapons other then phasers and disruptor now, there will eventually be. guarantied. and yes, eventually both sides will have access to all types of elite weapons.
wheres my elite torps anyway?
Good point, I am always more happy to see interesting torps.
Same here too...the joy of beating all that junk with nothing but off-the-exchange weapons with nothing but off the exchange generic shields, deflectors and engines is satisfying - no gimmicks, no cheese - just straight forward decloak and dagger fun in the fleet norgh (I missed the RA ship as I went for a vo'quv..a bad mistake as a tac)
The problem I see regarding the top heavy nature of sto is that a level one now has to, to be 'competetive' in pvp has to jump through so many time gated hoops that it will discourage even the most avid player- and those who do continue have to pay through the nose for the latest and greatest gear.. Even so, getting stomped by elite and rep weapons, let alone having even a fully buffed tac alpha deflected by nothing but procs will deter even these players, especially those who cannot afford all those gimmick items and ships to catch up to the 'norm'
To me, all these shields, rep toys and such are nails in the coffin of pvp - If I didn't get such a kick out of besting those who use all the toys or knowing I'm the 'little -expletive- that that keeps cloaking just as I'm about to kill him', I'd give up on the cheese fondue of Kerrat - but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment
(Also...somewhat off topic, but a jem bugs jem 3pc set bonus...can it strip cloak as if it was a buff? I encountered one that kept stripping my cloak yet was using no other ability I could see)
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The jemhadar deflector has 2% stealth sight which means 2% the size of the entire map say map is 200km across that would 40km stealth sight. Not sure if that is actually how the game figures it, but it was explained to me like that. So the closer you get the increased chance they can see through your cloak, and shoot you. So no it doesn't strip cloak its the deflector that allows you to be seen.
I think the precedence for this is from the DS9 episode with Kor's last appearance in the Star Trek franchise. The BOP squadron is returning from a raid in Cardassian space but is still being pursued by a Jem'hadar force that will eventually overtake them, despite the cloaks. Someway, somehow, the Dominion had some technique for finding these ships.
If your talking about the weapon 1% chance to strip one buff with polaron... no it won't strip cloak... although unless your in a battle cloaking ship if he sees you at all and shoots you, you will red alert and drop out of cloak.
I think most likely they where using the sets bonus skill... Anti Proton Sweep which disables cloak just like Charged Particle Burst would.
That's not how stealth sight works. Borticus was kind enough to explain it here, but the gist of it is that if the "+2% stealth sight" means that the fractional bonus to perception (the SDR/10000 value) is increased by 0.02, then you'd be able to see enemies from 2km farther away than normal.
Stop the whining please. KDF is underdeveloped faction still, so i would focus on real issues rather than a weapon proc that is gained after hard work of a Fleet and is one of the more rare weapons in use, most KDF:s i know do not even go the Elite Disruptor since they simply do not suit their gameplay. I use for example Romulan Plasma Accx2 & with omega set shield drain and on another toon i use Elite fleet disruptors. Both work just fine. I only dream i could have weapons that could heal my shields for my carriers.
So no more complaining, KDF is underdeveloped as it is and the Elite Disruptors with the shield proc are the only things decent that they get from building fleet base at tier 5. KDF gets only 2 & 1/2 ships for example at T5 shipyard, i forgot how many FED:s get but way more than KDF. Fleet Brel + Fleet Vo'Quv & Botrasqu <- can be bought with Zen.
So they both weapons serve a good purpose and lets keep at least some individuality in Elite Fleet weapons terms & otherwise troughout FED/KDF please....