Tiered of flying the same old escorts and looking for a challenge? Try to build a cruiser that can spike and potentially replace an escort in team based PvP.
Whose up for the challenge?
I know for a fact it is very very doable. Go on, impress yourselves
It's possible, but generally only on the klink side, due to the much higher turnrate and being able to equip DHCs. When the Galaxy-x gets saucer sep that should be pretty decent as well.
Tiered of flying the same old escorts and looking for a challenge? Try to build a cruiser that can spike and potentially replace an escort in team based PvP.
Whose up for the challenge?
I know for a fact it is very very doable. Go on, impress yourselves
So who did it? The great cruiser master? Dont make me laugh.
There is no way a cruiser can do spike except for some pew pew single beam array with overload 1
Consoles
Tac - 4x Plasma Infuser Mk XII
Eng - Borg, 0Point,Tachyo,Neut Mk XII
Sci - 2x Rom Flow [Pla]
Devices - RMC, SFM, Wep Batt, Eng Batt
I can explain the reasoning behind any of this (including the Eng Captain instead of a Tac) if anybody cares. It's obvious to me...but I'm flaky, so I might be missing something obvious too.
Sounds more like a Dedicated Damage Over Time Cruiser to me.
have i got build for you. I call it the Wizards 1st Rule and it is as bad azz as they come, my bet is once you try it you will be done with escorts for a while. Just drop me line in game and we can pop on boot camp server and I will link ya the build.
No screenie it didn't happen, also, is it a X with DHC's and turrets? Because that's not the point people are making about beams you know. There's still a huge discrepency between beams and cannons.
This post is making me think that if a Tac can fly a Galaxy X or any other cruiser better than an engineer, perhaps the Tac needs....... (wait for it)...... Nerfing? Yes I went there and all of you know it is true.
And don't respond with how Engineers are better at this or that when the forums are flooded with how the Engineer is useless in PVP.
Sounds more like a Dedicated Damage Over Time Cruiser to me.
Thought process was the following against the parked 'n stripped target (courtesy of the Bill Nye guys on the team):
Queue the first BO, TT, APO, begin firing Hyper/Omega (they sync on auto), EPtW, Hyperflux the Experimental, BO#1 DBB, BO#2 DBB, BO#1 again as the torps hit against remaining hull.
With the likelihood that the person will have ResA equipped instead of ResB...
* Course, that brings up a side question as folks start to think about AP again with the Advanced Fleet Weapons. The viability of AP/Plasma for the Escorts while the Sci guys run Pol/Tet/Phaser...so the "pressure 'n proc" damage doesn't stack the SDR for the spike/burst guys. Something outside of "needing" the SNB for the kill.
This post is making me think that if a Tac can fly a Galaxy X or any other cruiser better than an engineer, perhaps the Tac needs....... (wait for it)...... Nerfing? Yes I went there and all of you know it is true.
And don't respond with how Engineers are better at this or that when the forums are flooded with how the Engineer is useless in PVP.
Much like the Tac Escort does the most damage (and should be the squishiest - /cough), the Eng Cruiser should be the tankiest (and do the least damage).
So unlike the discussion about a Tac buffing Sci abilities - not sure why a Tac wouldn't do more damage in a Cruiser than an Eng would. The Eng would still be the better tank and thus the better healer because of that tanking than the Tac would be.
It's kind of like putting an Eng in an Escort - the Escort will be less squishy with the Eng than the Tac.
One can almost picture some twisted universe where a pseudo sort of balance exists...
A Tac that wants to be less squishy would fly a Cruiser.
An Eng that wants to do more damage would fly the Escort.
There's no real squishy to the Escort though, not for the damage.
Thus, the Tac doesn't need the Cruiser and the loss of damage by having the Eng in the Escort isn't worth it at the higher levels.
The way things are going - that twisted universe where a pseudo sort of balance exists - is only going to get further and further and further away. The more hybrid Escorts that enter the game...the more likely everybody will simply end up flying them - whether Tac or Sci (no, I didn't forget Eng...Cryptic forgot Eng).
edit: Lol, that sounds so melodramatic. I like my Fed Eng, though - I fly around going wheee, wheee, wheee. Course, I'll last longer against 5-6 Escorts doing that than I will against a Tac Cruiser with a Sci buddy.
Wait for proc to hit for the borg set TB.
Add Hyperflux
Add HY
Add BO
Pray?
Honestly I just cannot fathom how this can be done please enlighten me. And I'm assuming DHCs are not allowed in this so if they are then that kinda changes the situation.
have i got build for you. I call it the Wizards 1st Rule and it is as bad azz as they come, my bet is once you try it you will be done with escorts for a while. Just drop me line in game and we can pop on boot camp server and I will link ya the build.
As somebody who has never done a dps cruiser, I can hardly claim to be an authority on the topic, however, logical thinking dictates that there is a 4 tac console cruiser out there equipped with BO/THY - 3, perhaps, that can dish out spike every once in a while. The key to success, however lies elsewhere - the subspace jumper console, perhaps complimented by spam of TB/ target sub: engine and-or shield/ VM ... etc
kdf cruisers can be escort replacers, they wont hit quite as hard but they also wont need as much support. 3 DHCs and THY1 has got me plenty of quick kills. heavily powered up glider and DEM3 can be quite the drawn out fight equalizer though.
cruisers like the dkora and excelsior that can make use of DBBs and the DEM doff that have strong tac skills can spike that way too.
the all beam array builds or all singles and turret builds are still useless though
How about the Fleet Cheyenne? Granted, it has no high level Tac abilities, but running A2B on that ship along with Beam Overload every ~16 seconds on DBBs would be quite interesting.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The sheer prevalence of Post S6 4 (5 in the case of the Bortas'qu) tactical console cruisers with LTC Tac seating makes this very much doable. You won't hit as hard as an Escort, lacking the Commander Tactical seat required to reach the peaks of spike damage in STO, but definitely enough enough damage to deal a fatal blow to a target that has been debuffed.
"Can a cruiser work in place of an escort when your team is configured around the weaknesses inherent in the platform that is a cruiser?" might be a better a question. Yes, it can.
Can you simply replace escorts with cruisers in a plug-and-play fashion and expect to get the same results? Generally, no. There's more at work here, though. The general draw back of cruisers is their lack of maneuverability and spontaneity. They'll never be as fast to quickly clamp down and obliterate an exposed opponent as an escort will be. That's their biggest drawback when it comes to spike damage, the timing of it, not the numbers.
If you tie up a target in tractor beams, or gravity wells, or GPG's, or whatever flavor-of-the-week movement debuff you like, though, you can setup a situation where the cruiser's maneuverability disadvantage is partially, or even totally, negated. Combined with a bit more teamwork, sprinkle with an SNB or three, and whoever is snared is very much likely to just out-and-out pop.
jm2c, looking in from outside in a Sci Ship.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
have i got build for you. I call it the Wizards 1st Rule and it is as bad azz as they come, my bet is once you try it you will be done with escorts for a while. Just drop me line in game and we can pop on boot camp server and I will link ya the build.
I encountered spike cruiser couple of days ago in Kerrat. I was in my sci destoyer, and was like... look an unsuspecting tac fed care bear in excelsior! That was my last thought. In 3-5 sec (i didnt expect that kind of dmg) I was burning on plasma fire while dem was eating my hull. While i was thinking what to do, and started moving my mouse to VM button, at 6th sec I exploded. I guess, its possible, but it has to be tac. Tho, easily countered with 2 hazard emitters, and sci trickery. Cheers.
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
I encountered spike cruiser couple of days ago in Kerrat. I was in my sci destoyer, and was like... look an unsuspecting tac fed care bear in excelsior! That was my last thought. In 3-5 sec (i didnt expect that kind of dmg) I was burning on plasma fire while dem was eating my hull. While i was thinking what to do, and started moving my mouse to VM button, at 6th sec I exploded. I guess, its possible, but it has to be tac. Tho, easily countered with 2 hazard emitters, and sci trickery. Cheers.
3-5 seconds isnt a spike. a spike is INSTANT.
in 1/2 second any player can egress 10k battlesphere.......
Geez mini I thought we was bro's? No secret no cheat just click the link on my signature for the dps cruiser. Like mini said spike is instant this takes 2-3 secs...But that's all I need to pop bops like you mini.
No one expects a Cruiser to lay them out, hence the name.
The Wizards 1st rule~"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."~Terry Goodkind (The Sword of Truth)
Tiered of flying the same old escorts and looking for a challenge? Try to build a cruiser that can spike and potentially replace an escort in team based PvP.
Whose up for the challenge?
I know for a fact it is very very doable. Go on, impress yourselves
very difficult to say the least, and i don't said that because i do it with a tact in a galaxy x wich is really a challenge;)
no the problem is beam, because we speak about spike damage so that must be a beam overload build.
and these build are really unreliable unlike cannon build.
to be fully effective on a cruiser BO need to be fire a full weapons power, must not miss the target and often be supported by an other spike weapon directly after it.
it required piloting skill, timing and can be TRIBBLE at any time by lag.
i could fly an escort, but this is star trek, so i stick with my gal x, so i don't do it in a challenge spirit, i am sort of force to.
from my experience, until something change, spike damage is not good for cruiser in a long term engagement.
i would love to go an other way than BO, but BFAW is even more unreliable since you don't choose the targets at wich it is thrown at ( and that appart from the bug that was affecting this power ).
so yes it rather good in some situation, against average player, but i have hard time to bielieve ( even with better cruiser than galx, and they are many:) ) that you could do something that even approches an escort efficiency.
i however am openminded, if you known for a fact someone that can, please, post he or her gears, skillpoint layout and BO layout.
i will take any help i can get to make my ship work better.
Geez mini I thought we was bro's? No secret no cheat just click the link on my signature for the dps cruiser. Like mini said spike is instant this takes 2-3 secs...But that's all I need to pop bops like you mini.
Double up on the Aux2Batt. You'll be able to:
-Run only 2 purple tech doffs, dropping 1 tech and 2 conn for a total of 3 freed up slots (Marion is nice, and blue battery doffs are cheap now and will bring Aux batts up in about 1 minute).
-Run only 1 EPTS, with the other EPTx also at 100% uptime.
-Get dramatically better uptime for DEM, RSP, and APO.
You must be willing to be a slave to your rotation, and you will need keybinds for it, but it's worth it.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
I know I general plasma is seen as a joke and there a very good arguments for why it is, but I have seen things that have made me a believer in the potential of this build. I have seen plasma destroy targets in seconds. It was, dare I say, spiky.
Cruisers are capable of burst damage, it just depends which cruiser you pick.
The old cruisers (with one Lt. tac slot and maybe one Ens slot) were not capable of real burst damage and had to focus on high sustained damage. However the new Fleet and Zen store cruisers (such as the Fleet Assault cruiser or the Fleet Tor'kaht, and so on) can be successfully fit with burst builds.
While these ships won't match the maneuverability or overall punching power of the escorts/raptors/BoPs, they do have higher survivability and are capable of outfighting them 1v1 situations.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Support a KDF equivalent to the Vesta Here
Comments
KDF side? Yes, easily. (it also helps that the KDF scorts really really suck but the Fleet Vorcha can keep pace with a bug if it's built right)
It's possible, but generally only on the klink side, due to the much higher turnrate and being able to equip DHCs. When the Galaxy-x gets saucer sep that should be pretty decent as well.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
So who did it? The great cruiser master? Dont make me laugh.
There is no way a cruiser can do spike except for some pew pew single beam array with overload 1
Sounds more like a Dedicated Damage Over Time Cruiser to me.
sad the "im special cus i know, come beg me to tell you'
attitude has proliferated. check any of my toons on gateway, no cheats to hide.
oh and ur fail cruiser not only will never get a shot off vs any decent escort, but it will be insta vaped by true spike.
summary- fail cruisers can replace fail escorts with no change in the outcome of the match.
No screenie it didn't happen, also, is it a X with DHC's and turrets? Because that's not the point people are making about beams you know. There's still a huge discrepency between beams and cannons.
You need to bring up that old thread with gal x "dragon" build. Use that as a guide.
Veni Vidi Vici
Confucius says "A Panda is most dangerous when Sad".
And don't respond with how Engineers are better at this or that when the forums are flooded with how the Engineer is useless in PVP.
Thought process was the following against the parked 'n stripped target (courtesy of the Bill Nye guys on the team):
Queue the first BO, TT, APO, begin firing Hyper/Omega (they sync on auto), EPtW, Hyperflux the Experimental, BO#1 DBB, BO#2 DBB, BO#1 again as the torps hit against remaining hull.
With the likelihood that the person will have ResA equipped instead of ResB...
* Course, that brings up a side question as folks start to think about AP again with the Advanced Fleet Weapons. The viability of AP/Plasma for the Escorts while the Sci guys run Pol/Tet/Phaser...so the "pressure 'n proc" damage doesn't stack the SDR for the spike/burst guys. Something outside of "needing" the SNB for the kill.
Much like the Tac Escort does the most damage (and should be the squishiest - /cough), the Eng Cruiser should be the tankiest (and do the least damage).
So unlike the discussion about a Tac buffing Sci abilities - not sure why a Tac wouldn't do more damage in a Cruiser than an Eng would. The Eng would still be the better tank and thus the better healer because of that tanking than the Tac would be.
It's kind of like putting an Eng in an Escort - the Escort will be less squishy with the Eng than the Tac.
One can almost picture some twisted universe where a pseudo sort of balance exists...
A Tac that wants to be less squishy would fly a Cruiser.
An Eng that wants to do more damage would fly the Escort.
There's no real squishy to the Escort though, not for the damage.
Thus, the Tac doesn't need the Cruiser and the loss of damage by having the Eng in the Escort isn't worth it at the higher levels.
The way things are going - that twisted universe where a pseudo sort of balance exists - is only going to get further and further and further away. The more hybrid Escorts that enter the game...the more likely everybody will simply end up flying them - whether Tac or Sci (no, I didn't forget Eng...Cryptic forgot Eng).
edit: Lol, that sounds so melodramatic. I like my Fed Eng, though - I fly around going wheee, wheee, wheee. Course, I'll last longer against 5-6 Escorts doing that than I will against a Tac Cruiser with a Sci buddy.
Full rommie set.
Wait for proc to hit for the borg set TB.
Add Hyperflux
Add HY
Add BO
Pray?
Honestly I just cannot fathom how this can be done please enlighten me. And I'm assuming DHCs are not allowed in this so if they are then that kinda changes the situation.
Look forward to it...
Elite Defense Stovokor
How about the Fleet Cheyenne? Granted, it has no high level Tac abilities, but running A2B on that ship along with Beam Overload every ~16 seconds on DBBs would be quite interesting.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The sheer prevalence of Post S6 4 (5 in the case of the Bortas'qu) tactical console cruisers with LTC Tac seating makes this very much doable. You won't hit as hard as an Escort, lacking the Commander Tactical seat required to reach the peaks of spike damage in STO, but definitely enough enough damage to deal a fatal blow to a target that has been debuffed.
"Can a cruiser work in place of an escort when your team is configured around the weaknesses inherent in the platform that is a cruiser?" might be a better a question. Yes, it can.
Can you simply replace escorts with cruisers in a plug-and-play fashion and expect to get the same results? Generally, no. There's more at work here, though. The general draw back of cruisers is their lack of maneuverability and spontaneity. They'll never be as fast to quickly clamp down and obliterate an exposed opponent as an escort will be. That's their biggest drawback when it comes to spike damage, the timing of it, not the numbers.
If you tie up a target in tractor beams, or gravity wells, or GPG's, or whatever flavor-of-the-week movement debuff you like, though, you can setup a situation where the cruiser's maneuverability disadvantage is partially, or even totally, negated. Combined with a bit more teamwork, sprinkle with an SNB or three, and whoever is snared is very much likely to just out-and-out pop.
jm2c, looking in from outside in a Sci Ship.
Me too... And I have a hunch mini won't be able to sleep till he sees this top secret treasure...
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
3-5 seconds isnt a spike. a spike is INSTANT.
in 1/2 second any player can egress 10k battlesphere.......
oh and ur fawfail-broked = u lose
you sir,
speak of the battlespere as if you have knowledge of it.
i invented the word. and the cadence that goes along with it.
and................ u lose.
have fun kill bad guys
No one expects a Cruiser to lay them out, hence the name.
The Wizards 1st rule~"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."~Terry Goodkind (The Sword of Truth)
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
very difficult to say the least, and i don't said that because i do it with a tact in a galaxy x wich is really a challenge;)
no the problem is beam, because we speak about spike damage so that must be a beam overload build.
and these build are really unreliable unlike cannon build.
to be fully effective on a cruiser BO need to be fire a full weapons power, must not miss the target and often be supported by an other spike weapon directly after it.
it required piloting skill, timing and can be TRIBBLE at any time by lag.
i could fly an escort, but this is star trek, so i stick with my gal x, so i don't do it in a challenge spirit, i am sort of force to.
from my experience, until something change, spike damage is not good for cruiser in a long term engagement.
i would love to go an other way than BO, but BFAW is even more unreliable since you don't choose the targets at wich it is thrown at ( and that appart from the bug that was affecting this power ).
so yes it rather good in some situation, against average player, but i have hard time to bielieve ( even with better cruiser than galx, and they are many:) ) that you could do something that even approches an escort efficiency.
i however am openminded, if you known for a fact someone that can, please, post he or her gears, skillpoint layout and BO layout.
i will take any help i can get to make my ship work better.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
-Run only 2 purple tech doffs, dropping 1 tech and 2 conn for a total of 3 freed up slots (Marion is nice, and blue battery doffs are cheap now and will bring Aux batts up in about 1 minute).
-Run only 1 EPTS, with the other EPTx also at 100% uptime.
-Get dramatically better uptime for DEM, RSP, and APO.
You must be willing to be a slave to your rotation, and you will need keybinds for it, but it's worth it.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
The producers CLEARLY needed to consult the developers of STO before writing that scene. VERY inaccurate and uncannon. [-_-]
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
Its kinda of a subjective matter, as even 'spike' can be converted back to DPS figures if need be.
If you consider spike instant without anything before or after. game mechanic wise that could only be a single entry in. the log then.
The fact of the matter is that everything that does some significant damage is always in a minimum time to like 5 secs lol.
Even firing your first weapon gives you a delay between 150 and 1000 ms if unlucky not even talking about torp traveltimes
First world sto problems: my bug is getting boring.
The old cruisers (with one Lt. tac slot and maybe one Ens slot) were not capable of real burst damage and had to focus on high sustained damage. However the new Fleet and Zen store cruisers (such as the Fleet Assault cruiser or the Fleet Tor'kaht, and so on) can be successfully fit with burst builds.
While these ships won't match the maneuverability or overall punching power of the escorts/raptors/BoPs, they do have higher survivability and are capable of outfighting them 1v1 situations.
Support a KDF equivalent to the Vesta Here
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."