test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Overpowered sci?
seansamurai1
Member Posts: 634 Arc User
Right, Ive held off now for sometime but I cant now.
Ive just about had it with the one sided nature of this game at times.
Sci skills that are so over the top its unreal.
I like (Or liked) to PvP, Im not bad, theres people better than me but I can hold my own.
However lately its becoming apparent that there are a growing number of people who can somehow make escorts and bug ships totally indestructable, like 5 escorts on one bug ship with no shields and he doesnt take any damage at all!!! That sort of stuff.
However, I digress. Sci powers like subnuc3 just take the utter p*ss, debuffs active skills and screws your countdown timers up, oh and its stackable. Ive had countdowns on tac teams at 50 minutes in the past and it lasted a good minute and a half before it reset.
Now you may well say engineering team or sci team (whichever it is) debuffs it! Really? Cos the last time I tried that, subnuc actually shut that skill down, along with everything else that Id used or not used, so I couldnt debuff at all, or defend myself for that matter.
Another thats a p*ss take is 100% shield pass through with energy weapons. What buff does that? I havent found it yet and the people I ask just say 'My little secret'. In my eyes that raises suspicions as to the legitemacy of some of these players.
When is Cryptic actually going to bother looking at a skill that cant be debuffed and is by far the most lethal skill going?
Some of you may say 'Well your team should send a team over', yeah, all well and good saying that but I dont get the opportunity to play in premades, only pug teams, like many others really. Tonight, I got hit by 7 subnuc3s in one go! Go figure when there was only 5 on the other team! They all stacked as well and took 3 minutes (even after death) to clear.
Its pretty pathetic tbh, not even being able to do what you do PvP for in the first place, thats fight.
I recently got my hands on the bugship as well, well, its a good little ship but Im interested to know how a small number have a speed so high its like they are on constant evasive manoeuvres yet seem to ignore all resistances indefinately. Ive trawled the PvP build thread and have found no definitive answer.
If anyone has some helpful input on this, it will be greatly received.
Ive just about had it with the one sided nature of this game at times.
Sci skills that are so over the top its unreal.
I like (Or liked) to PvP, Im not bad, theres people better than me but I can hold my own.
However lately its becoming apparent that there are a growing number of people who can somehow make escorts and bug ships totally indestructable, like 5 escorts on one bug ship with no shields and he doesnt take any damage at all!!! That sort of stuff.
However, I digress. Sci powers like subnuc3 just take the utter p*ss, debuffs active skills and screws your countdown timers up, oh and its stackable. Ive had countdowns on tac teams at 50 minutes in the past and it lasted a good minute and a half before it reset.
Now you may well say engineering team or sci team (whichever it is) debuffs it! Really? Cos the last time I tried that, subnuc actually shut that skill down, along with everything else that Id used or not used, so I couldnt debuff at all, or defend myself for that matter.
Another thats a p*ss take is 100% shield pass through with energy weapons. What buff does that? I havent found it yet and the people I ask just say 'My little secret'. In my eyes that raises suspicions as to the legitemacy of some of these players.
When is Cryptic actually going to bother looking at a skill that cant be debuffed and is by far the most lethal skill going?
Some of you may say 'Well your team should send a team over', yeah, all well and good saying that but I dont get the opportunity to play in premades, only pug teams, like many others really. Tonight, I got hit by 7 subnuc3s in one go! Go figure when there was only 5 on the other team! They all stacked as well and took 3 minutes (even after death) to clear.
Its pretty pathetic tbh, not even being able to do what you do PvP for in the first place, thats fight.
I recently got my hands on the bugship as well, well, its a good little ship but Im interested to know how a small number have a speed so high its like they are on constant evasive manoeuvres yet seem to ignore all resistances indefinately. Ive trawled the PvP build thread and have found no definitive answer.
If anyone has some helpful input on this, it will be greatly received.
Post edited by seansamurai1 on
0
Comments
1 - You will come across premades that will hand your ar$e to you on a silver, jewel encrusted platter, served by a manservant of the highest order. Unless you're prepared to devote a large chunk of your life to combatting them you'll need to learn to live with that.
2 - Fairness in classes doesn't exist and will most likely never exist. Subnuc is annoying, but having your shields and hull drilled in a second or two gives the ultimate advantage to the escorts.
3 - If you want to get better you need to ask people questions. If you choose to do so remember this little gem of advice. Just as you like people to be polite to you, be polite to the people you're asking. Saying something like, "You're cheating and I want to know how or I'll report you", will elicit hostility. If this happens, you have nobody but yourself to blame. If you're polite, chances are you'll get some assistance and maybe make a new friend.
Keep these in mind and you'll have a fun time.
Have you tried a hyper engine with higher power levels or emergency power to engines with aux to dampeners. There are also [Deuterium Surplus] items. There are many ways to go faster. You can also use conn duty officer to reduce it's cool down.
As far as subnuke is concerned. It is still the only sci ability worth anything. sci team is only disabled if it is on cd. if it is not on cool down then it can still clear a subnuke. there is a bug however when it comes to boarding party but a fix is already in the works.
Tier 4 passive bonuses that increase shield regen and you get shield heals on opponents crits.
Yeah it does happen very often. Usually the bigger problem is that people leave the match before it is done. At least if you go to the end you will still get your dilithium and fleet marks. The PvP missions only care if you completed the match not just win.
I understand that yes. Its annoying and I cant see it changing.
[/QUOTE]2 - Fairness in classes doesn't exist and will most likely never exist. Subnuc is annoying, but having your shields and hull drilled in a second or two gives the ultimate advantage to the escorts.[/QUOTE]
Its not just annoying, its bugged, end up with very similar if not worse than the boarding party glitch. It needs a stable debuff and shouldnt be stackable at all.
[/QUOTE]3 - If you want to get better you need to ask people questions. If you choose to do so remember this little gem of advice. Just as you like people to be polite to you, be polite to the people you're asking. Saying something like, "You're cheating and I want to know how or I'll report you", will elicit hostility. If this happens, you have nobody but yourself to blame. If you're polite, chances are you'll get some assistance and maybe make a new friend.[/QUOTE]
I never once said I call them cheaters when asking. When I have asked, Ive been polite as I am generally very interested in knowing what causes these issues.
However, even being polite gets nowhere as so many people seem cagey about what does it, thats where it gets suspect.
[/QUOTE]Keep these in mind and you'll have a fun time.[/QUOTE]
Ive been PvPing for a while now on and off, mainly because the game is otherwise pretty samey and at times boring.
So Im not new to it but its reasonably recently that things seem to be going awry with this stuff. It seems that more people are finding a possible glitch or bug and hitting on it.
Im losing the motivation because its just damn boring being stuck with no skills, no engines, no weapons, no resistances, nothing for upwards of 2 minutes (Unless you get battered quickly) but even after respawn it hasnt cleared the issues.
Come on, are you telling me that a 25 minute cooldown on tac team or shield buff or even the one thing that is supposed to debuff but doesnt because that skill got removed the second you got hit is perfectly acceptable?
That is the subnuke/boarding party glitch that has a fix in the pipe.
How about all of the other science skills aren't worth a d*mn because we continuously have to deal with a magic buff system that tacticals use. That's right, how exactly do they do those bonuses to damage again? Engineer increases power, science have actual theory behind it, what does Tactical have again? Oh they just blast thru your shields and then send quantumns to finish you off. yeah that's valid.
Makes me wonder if you've played the game at all.
So here's my deal. Do us all a favor and go out and make a science captain max him out, gear him appropriately oh and two things. You HAVE to use beams and beams only, and you have to use a science ship.
Try pvping in this and then come back to this post and let us know exactly what happened. I can guarantee you that you had the worst pvp pve experience of your life in any game.
It seems there is something else going on.
As for the extra speed, thats taking slots away from say EPtS is it not? Where would the extra engine power come from? Take it from aux and heals are carp, take it from shields and they are squishier, take it from weapons and well thats obvious.
Some of the ones Ive come up against and others Ive spoken to were seriously like they were in permanent evasive. The one with zero shields still confuses me. 5 escorts, 2 of which stacked at close range whilst he was held and still took no hull damage (We had already killed his team so no other ships nearby for heals) , with no shields. promptly spins around once the TB dropped and killed all 5 of us through shields in 4 seconds flat. No time to react at all.
When I asked him how he did it, I just got the message "F*** off noob, for me to know and you not to find out", then he blocked.
Yeah cheers DH!
Ive got a sci toon and still think somethings fishy about the skill at times.
Ok, well I think you are seeing the combo of many different things all together. But you are also not telling very much about what actually happened, just general, vague examples. Were you on a Fed? A KDF? Were you doing CnH, or Arena? Was the other team a premade, or just appeared to be pugs? Was it FvF? FvK? KvK? There's just a LOT of 'unknowns' here that you didn't say that would better explain it. Don't 'name and shame' actual players, but more info would better help us understand what in the world even happened.
Like to start with...
That 'invincible Bug ship'. Was he running one or both Jem'hader consoles? Was he running Attack Pattern Omega? Did he get buffed by other people on his team with like APD, and hull heals? His defense could've been REALLY high, possibly using things like the KHG/Adapted MACO shield, and much much more.
As for the SNB part, are you sure it was ONLY SNB? Because recently there's been a wave of Boarding Party usage that when coupled with SNB, can cause HUGE cooldown stacks on your abilities and weapons. That might majorly explain your '3 minute CD timers even after death' as well.
Also, when you were SNBed, were you using a lot of buffs or anything? Because regardless of who you are, if a team decides to focus fire and SNB you while buffed up, you WILL die if not being supported in turn.
As for that 100% bleed through thing. That could be a couple things: Plasma procs are one major possibility. There's also Transphasic torps and mines. I know you said energy weapons, but still. Also there is the Omega Graviton Amplifier proc off of tier 4 Omega rep, which can proc guaranteed kinetic damage with 100% bleed through right to the hull.
And the 'my little secret' bit those players gave. Again, not enough is known of the situation. If anything they were probably just trying to keep their 'secret' because they felt they are 'l33t', and if they tell anyone their set-up, then they won't be 'l33t' anymore.
Again, on the bug, there's plenty of things. Everything from extra RCS consoles to running APO much more often due to DOFFs, along with those Jem'hader consoles. And maybe more things I'm not thinking of.
The bug had no support ships with him as they fell rather rapidly.
I know Ill get beaten at times, thats part and parcel, but Im trying to clear up some seemingly inexplicable issues.
I do think subnuc is overpowered for the troll earlier, such a powerful skill should either have a longer cooldown or not be stackable with other subnucs.
Ive tried Aegis but never got on with it, seemed make everything squishy.
Currently Im on Borg subtranswarp engine XII
Borg Deflector XII
I alternate between the MACO XII resiliant and the Adapted MACO XII covariant shield.
To be fair, stacking subnucs is a bad idea on a team anyways. It is a waste of using them on one target. And it has a 2 minute cooldown (thank you renimalt for the error fix). And if they were using them faster than that, then there is some exploit out there I certainly don't know of.
Now, again, it was probably the Boarding Party bug going around. You may not have seen them if the other team was using them, but they still could've been using them.
As for the troll, ignore em. Because there will ALWAYS be people out there, those who don't care about you, or others, or fair play, or anything else. They care about winning, and will gladly use whatever the flavor of the week is in terms of bugs and exploits. The ones that really do give PvPing a bad name, as this thread has shown.*
But there are also those who want a fun, interesting PvP experience and do not use things like that to their advantage. They love a fair, but challenging fight.
*That line wasn't directed at you btw, OP, or meant to be an insult to you.
I know it wasnt directed at me bud.
The more I read the BP bug, the more it could be and combined with the usual graphics glitches or even point blank, it could well explain it.
Im a massive fan of a good fair fight, I like a challenge, I also dont mind losing as long as it was a good fight along the way.
I just cant stand skills that cant be fought or debuffed, its just a cheap way of getting the kill.
As for the troll, Im sure he realises that an alpha stack (full stack) lasts less time than any of the other skills, including ones that essentially mute the extra damage output.
Ive also seen some outstanding sci toons in Kerrat warzone tanking through 5-6 klingons and even killing 2, barely firing a shot in the process, just using sci skills.
I'm 90% sure it's the BP bug. I don't know every single possible skill and combo in the game, but whatever is the worst thing being abused ATM is often times the answer.
Few people are a fan of getting killed through cheap means, bugs, and exploits. Those same people who abuse it are also generally the types to whine and complain in zone when they die.
But the moment a new bug appears, they will happily start abusing it.
True on the alpha strike, however, the fact it was SNBed off, troll or no, means they considered you a threat. So there's something to be taken from that at least, in a good way.
As for tanking 5 or 6 Klingons in Ker'rat, clearly those warriors need to be sent back to the Academy and re-learn everything. :P
In seriousness though, a good enough player, with the right skills and gear can be a tremendous powerhouse by themselves, all without ever having to get the slightest bit of support. So I'm not surprised they were able to pop a couple KDF by themselves, science can be brutal in the right hands.
There is nothing wrong with that though.
What you have to consider is that in order to use LT Commander and Commander sci skills. you mostly have to be in a Science ship... which has 1 less weapon slot, and most of them also have 1 less tac console at least as well.
There is nothing wrong with science skills being powerful. Also you will notice in most cases it isn't the science skills doing the majority of the dmg... as much as they setup the dmg from the sci ships weapons. One good HY from a science ship after they sub nuke and destroy your defense with a tractor or gw or vm. Is as good as a tac that has buffed the same weapon up with Omega and Alpha. Frankly its pretty balanced.
Science ships are in general the foil to DPS escorts / bops. That is by design and works fine. Klinks shouldn't be trying to go toe to toe with a proper science ship... they should have a buddy attack em... and wait in cloak for the science ships defense buffs to drop... and then drop them in one pass... no more sci magik.
There is nothing wrong with sci doing lots of dmg and debuffing with science skills.
When it comes to kerrat take everything with a grain of salt. I have seen some very poor klink dps there... and some fantastic dps as well... and some terrible fed tanking and dmg... and the opposite. Player skill level comes on both end of the spectrum.
I know that I would have no issues tanking 5-6 low dps klingons in kerrat... and I know a small handful that would kill me solo in a single pass if they set there run up right.
I guess my point is you can't take kerrat as a measuring stick of balance.
Cryptic should actually add this as a loading screen tip. They should add it to every mission involving Ker'rat. It should be a Friday wallpaper. Etc, etc, etc.
The thing I hate is the fact subnuc3, a hellishly powerful skill (No one has anything matching how destructive it can be) shouldnt be able to be stacked especially with a such a short CD.
I tried a slightly different setup earlier, retried the sci team. As I said earlier, it was being debuffed and put into countdown even before I used it. That was against a sci ship away from the pack, I was at distance and saw no shuttles.
I also hate the fact sci teams share a CD with engineer and tac team. They wear different coloured uniforms!
In higher level PvP and especially premade vs. premade, it's the strip that's the powerful portion, not the cooldown slow. The cooldown slow is a nice added bonus but ends up being immediately cleared by a half coordinated group of players.
That's something we can at least partially agree on. Having a 15 second global disproportionately punishes pugs who might feel obligated to have one of each ability because they cannot rely on team mates for clears. In a proper premade setup each player is min/maxed into only carrying one type of team ability (or rarely, two different types at the most) and team abilities are sent out when needed.
My proposal is to lower the GCD to 10 seconds for different types of team abilities while keeping the 15s GCD in place for two copies of they same type. For example, if I cast a tactical team it will place my engineering and science teams on a 10 second GCD, while another copy of tactical team gets the full 15s GCD.
This is consistent with the way every other ability that is a part of a larger family of skills works. For example, EPtS places every other kind "Emergency Power to" ability on a 15s GCD, but another copy of EPtS onto a larger 30s GCD. Target shields places a copy of target weapons onto a 15s GCD, but another copy of target shields gets a larger 30s GCD. Team abilities are unique in that they do not discriminate in this way between two copies of the same skill and merely related skills in the family.
I disagree entirely with removing the GCD between different types of team abilities all together, as it would cause a massive increase in healing power to the point it completely breaks the game. A 10s GCD works wonders because you're only increasing survivability for pugs who could then theoretically perfectly chain all three abilities without anything going to waste -- yet premades will still want to have each member min/max into only one team ability.
its not magic.
Do you even Science Bro?
Thats the right attitude.
Ofcourse, there is no such thing as pure balance, its too complex to ever make that true in a MMORPG. And indeed you are right, like the state of the game is now. Engi's are probably the least viable class to play atm. (Sure there are still players that rock it im sure)
Oh and yeah, im sure its great to show how good you can survive a 1v1 or pug in kerrat and never die if you do it right. For teamplay however;
APA/GDF SNB/SCAN is much better overall. Some accept it, some do not. But you always have a choice to play either.
My main sci uses cannons/turrets
Do you even Science Bro?
oh sorry, no I meant use only beams as energy weapons, some science ships can use cannons now.
It's because beams are nowhere near as effective and if that were the case in canon then the entire show would have every fed ship in cannon style weapons, if beams were really this bad they would not be standard Fed issue weapons. That's the point I was making. Adding to that the nerfed into oblivion science skills making it a pain to play. Battle scenarios that last entirely too long because instead of fixing the buff problems they nerfed the science captains in science ships.
He should be thankful they made this ability non-canon because it was supposed to knock systems offline.
Veni Vidi Vici
Confucius says "A Panda is most dangerous when Sad".
I can assure you that Sci is certainly not OP.
They have a few effective heals and buffs, weak offense and generally weak CC/debuff. Maybe if fewer of the CC/debuff abilities available to them hadn't been gimped in favor of tactical abilities they wouldn't need such a powerful ability as subnuc to put them on a more equal footing. I'll be in favor of nerfing subnuc when some other sci powers get a favorable balance pass.
Plus, subnuc is only as effective as the timing of the Science captain using it. Once it's been used, most of the tactical abilities can recycle much faster than it can. And the escort can evade and recover a lot easier than anybody else.
Also, Science captains have more skills to put points into than they have skill points to spend and in Space that lends itself to either overspecialized builds or weak ones. If you're getting whacked by a Sci, he's probably overspecialized in a specific area where you haven't loaded up on counters/resists.
I'd be willing to bet there's a chance that the fix for the SNB/BP bug results in an unfavorable change to subnuc, so a few people calling for a nerf might get their wish after all...
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek