Star Trek Voyager

felixhex · March 2013

I have so far watched every episode of every Star Trek show including the animated show. The only exception is Voyager. I am right in the middle of season 4. I want to say that Voyager is by far my favorite Star Trek show. DS9 comes second for me then TNG, Enterprise and TOS after that. I am writing this here because I remember in the past I have noticed alot or just a good amount of people criticize Voyager and Captain Janeway. Will Weaton even made a negative comment about her character on a past Talking Dead episode he was on. I honestly don't know why. With Species 4782, The Borg, and dealing with the emergeance of 7 of 9's human side Janeway is amazing and so is the show. Not since DS9 and Sisko dealing with the wraiths and Gul Dukat have I ever felt more excited. I can't wait to finish the show because I actually cheated on Netflix and skimmed through the last one and saw the borg and an old Janeway. I have never seen past 7 of 9's first appearance or two so if anyone responds please no spoilers.

dauntlessf05 · March 2013

I recently just finished watching Voyager and DS9 for the first time. At first I thought that both were going to be boring. Voyager was awesome, the only episode that dragged for me was the first one with the Caretaker. DS9, I always thought it would be boring mainly because everything takes place on a space station, but I ended up enjoying it alot.

chrisedallen89 · March 2013

Out of DS9 and Voyager having seen finally both of them all the way through without forgetting..

DS9 I enjoy more.. Less iratating moments in DS9 than Voyager as they had potnetial but never did all that much to it.. Kim nothing happened with him aside from dying... Tom got a little annoying, but I could go on.. Neelix I honestly did not hate him.. I hated Kes. Like I hated Wesley Crusher

neoakiraii · March 2013

At least Kim got some, unlike Geordi.:D

shaeply · March 2013

I like the voyager series the most. They are just trying to get home. Enterprise is great too, because we discover new world.
And i hate DS9. The space, species are good, but the federation there is really bad. They still talk about peace, democracy and everything good, but they do everything to overpower others. Hypocrites, dissemblers. Other fractions are often more "good" than federation there and so you can see how scenarists are just forcing them to be bad (and they are not good at it, it happens to be so obvious), like hortas or guls. And Sisko is bigheaded blockhead without any heart. He will lie, cheat and use force to get rid of ppl who don't agree with him or make them obey. And scenarists still "talk" about him as he was great. It is nonsense.

felixhex · March 2013

I couldn't stand Kes either. By far my least favorite on the show. I only really got interested in her when she left and 7 took her place. And I will forget I read that someone dies. What the heck, I asked for no spoilers.

cptjhunter · March 2013

Hey I have some bootleg copies of "The lone gunmen" I've been trying to give away for the last 10 years.Any of you "Voyager rules" fans want them? It was sooo much better than the Xfiles...:rolleyes:

lordvedli · March 2013

I love Janeway. She's my favorite villain.

Hey I get it some people like Voyager but I rarely do. They never took any risks and always with the magic reset button. You look at the best episode of the series, Scorpion and the reason it works is because it was what the show was suppose to be about in the first place, stranded on the other side of the galaxy with two crews fused together but with friction suppose to be between them because of fundamentally different ideologies. And thats almost never a factor. It got so side lined that the only way they could explore the conflict between Marquis and Starfleet was through Tuvoks fan fiction. DS9 did more with the Marquis and the Marquis wasn't even envisioned as been a part of DS9, they were specifically created for Voyager.
I don't hate Voyager by any means. I'm just disappointed in it. It could of been SO much better than what it was but it never lived up to it's potential. Although I'm not sure I can ever completely forgive them for Neelix.

Hey at least it isn't Enterprise. The show were our "hero" committed genocide and then tried to act like it was the "moral" thing to do. oh and he's racist too.

shaeply wrote: »

snip

I just think you couldn't be more wrong. But since I don't think English is your first language I'll keep it simple, While Sisko is a flawed man at least he feels bad when he's forced to do bad things. I agree that show is dark but thats the point, its a show about frontier life and later all out war. Not all the problems are solved.

Also I don't think Sisko ever lied, cheated or used force to get rid of people who disagreed with him. Except in "In the pale moonlight" but that was to get the Romulans into the war and is just another form of the idea of the path to hell been paved with good intentions.

Hey I might as well also do a plug for SFdebris. Great reviewer of Trek and science fiction in general. Far more eloquent and open mined in how he makes his points then I am. http://www.sfdebris.com/

neowolfen · March 2013

Nice to know im not the only one who preferred Voyager

allen78j20sto · March 2013

I think each series has its place. I didnt like most of TNG, they were too snobby,they didnt seem to get dirty, but there were a few episodes that were good stories. DS9 I really tried to get into but it didnt click for me, but as a trek fan there were a few good episodes. Voyager I watched every episode a few times and liked it. Being more of an action fan i didnt like the holodeck episodes(didnt spoil it!) and since i cant spoil any more there were a few other themed episodes i didnt like. But I liked 90% of series. Enterprise I liked the best of them all. I know many didnt like Archer but he was on his own out there making the best of what he had.

felixhex · March 2013

I took the reason for the maquis falling in line was based on Chakotey's choices. He was their leader and they would follow him anywhere. The reason the two crews merged so well was because of Janeway and Chakotey, their leadership styles actually merged, and the crews themselves saw past their differences and and realized 70 years is 70 years, no matter what side you are on. What happened is more realistic to me, even with seska and a few doing their own thing. That was realistic. In the episode's scorpion, someone mentioned that was what the show was supposed to be like and never was. The khazon deserted the voyager crew on a planet. The stranded feeling and alone feeling was there for me the whole time. But it could not have worked for me if the entire time their voyage was a gauntlet.

sander233 · March 2013

While writing-wise Voyager was probably the least-excellent series, I did thoroughly enjoy it and I do rewatch the entire series (along with all the others, and the films.)

Voyager brought us the three sexiest women in Trek: Seven of Nine, B'Elanna Torres, and Voyager herself. I love that ship.

westx211 · March 2013

sander233 wrote: »

While writing-wise Voyager was probably the least-excellent series, I did thoroughly enjoy it and I do rewatch the entire series (along with all the others, and the films.)

Voyager brought us the three sexiest women in Trek: Seven of Nine, B'Elanna Torres, and Voyager herself. I love that ship.

You're forgetting T'pol she was sexier than Belaanna

sjokruhlica · March 2013

Voyager got under my skin mainly because of it's blatant political correctness, especially in the first two seasons. Once they ditched Jeri Taylor as a producer the series improved greatly.

felixhex · March 2013

sjokruhlica wrote: »

Voyager got under my skin mainly because of it's blatant political correctness, especially in the first two seasons. Once they ditched Jeri Taylor as a producer the series improved greatly.

Im interested in what you mean. I understand what you are saying but what are some examples. I never picked up on that stuff so I am just interested.

lincolninspace · March 2013

If Voyager had continued it would have been good it only hit its stride in the last 2 seasons and there are quite a few stinker episodes and then there are a few that are so stunning that they are true art.

sjokruhlica · March 2013

felixhex wrote: »

Im interested in what you mean. I understand what you are saying but what are some examples. I never picked up on that stuff so I am just interested.

The crew primarily. Woman captain, Native American first officer, black vulcan, asian ops officer, Latina half-klingon engineer, white helmsman, hologram doctor,and a troll morale officer. I almost expected an Aborigine and a midget at one point. I realize that Trek is supposed to be about overcoming differences and working together, but it was a bit blatant.

The 'we're going to stick to Fed ideals even if it screws us' philosophy in the early episodes was a bit annoying. Fortunately Janeway became a bit more pragmatic later in the series.

felixhex · March 2013

sjokruhlica wrote: »

The crew primarily. Woman captain, Native American first officer, black vulcan, asian ops officer, Latina half-klingon engineer, white helmsman, hologram doctor,and a troll morale officer. I almost expected an Aborigine and a midget at one point. I realize that Trek is supposed to be about overcoming differences and working together, but it was a bit blatant.

The 'we're going to stick to Fed ideals even if it screws us' philosophy in the early episodes was a bit annoying. Fortunately Janeway became a bit more pragmatic later in the series.

Oh yeh, I see. That's funny. And I am watching a horrible episode now, Nemesis. I have fallen asleep through it and dont even care what I missed. This one sucks.

artan42 · March 2013

My main dislike of VOY was it seamed like a rehash of TNG.
DS9 for me was the best series of all due to the deconstruction of the Federation, including any hypocrisy.

lincolninspace · March 2013

sjokruhlica wrote: »

The crew primarily. Woman captain, Native American first officer, black vulcan, asian ops officer, Latina half-klingon engineer, white helmsman, hologram doctor,and a troll morale officer. I almost expected an Aborigine and a midget at one point. I realize that Trek is supposed to be about overcoming differences and working together, but it was a bit blatant.

The 'we're going to stick to Fed ideals even if it screws us' philosophy in the early episodes was a bit annoying. Fortunately Janeway became a bit more pragmatic later in the series.

The there is the title character, that ship was too powerful. It may as well have been the magic school bus. The ship would be devastated in battle one episode and by next week it was all brand spanking new again. I would have liked to have seen the sets look scuffed and worn as the series went on. They came by supplies too easily and the only sacrifice seemed to be eating Neelix's cooking.

kusapark · March 2013

I've always viewed the Star Trek series as

TOS - Wild West in Space
TNG - Brittish Imperialism and the Good side of the coin. Peace, exploration, and diplomacy enforced by superior fire power or a diplomat (ala Picard)
DS9 - Soap Opera in space and the darker side of the coin compared to TNG about what is necessary for the Federation to survive.
Voyager - Re-attempt to TOS as seen by the crew compilation and thrown into the unknown.
Enterprise - Attempt to recapture the Space as all new much like TOS.

My issues for Voyager really stem from the Writers. It was clear they wrote the Captain part as a man and just made the captain a woman but didn't bother to change the writing to compensate. There was a lot they could have done but it fell short since they didn't write it in properly.

lincolninspace · March 2013

kusapark wrote: »

My issues for Voyager really stem from the Writers. It was clear they wrote the Captain part as a man and just made the captain a woman but didn't bother to change the writing to compensate. There was a lot they could have done but it fell short since they didn't write it in properly.

I agree the first episode or two showed her feminine side an then that was hidden away.

marcusdkane · March 2013

I think the problem with Voyager for me, lies squarely on the shoulders of Kate Mulgrew... She was not the original choice for the role, it should've been Genevieve Bujold. The character was never written for her, and I think that re-casting is where all Kathryn's weaknesses come to the fore... The thing that got me the most about her, was her inconsistency... She was happy to use the principles of the Federation as a Moral Highground when someone pissed her off, but was equally quick to abandon them and do what she wanted when someone else pissed her off... Sure, Kirk did whatever the hell he wanted whenever he wanted, but he was at least consistent about it. Same with Picard. There were times when he was truly hamstrung by the principles of the Federation and tended to break them only in the gravest of circumstances. Janeway, on the other hand, I would equate more to Riker: Comes across as everyone's best buddy, but when told something he/she didn't like, would become petulant and snotty in their treatment of others and grossly unprofessional. Captain Ransom, on the other hand, now he had big cojones... :cool: He knew full well he was going against Federation principles, but was doing so to protect his crew. I imagine that before his breakdown, Fleet Captain Garth was very similar...

glados122 · March 2013

I really loved Voyager because of the story.
Simply a crew who wanted to go back home after the Caretaker incident.

But my favor lies in Star Trek Enterprise.

wirtdd · March 2013

felixhex wrote: »

I have so far watched every episode of every Star Trek show including the animated show. The only exception is Voyager. I am right in the middle of season 4. I want to say that Voyager is by far my favorite Star Trek show. DS9 comes second for me then TNG, Enterprise and TOS after that. I am writing this here because I remember in the past I have noticed alot or just a good amount of people criticize Voyager and Captain Janeway. Will Weaton even made a negative comment about her character on a past Talking Dead episode he was on. I honestly don't know why. With Species 4782, The Borg, and dealing with the emergeance of 7 of 9's human side Janeway is amazing and so is the show. Not since DS9 and Sisko dealing with the wraiths and Gul Dukat have I ever felt more excited. I can't wait to finish the show because I actually cheated on Netflix and skimmed through the last one and saw the borg and an old Janeway. I have never seen past 7 of 9's first appearance or two so if anyone responds please no spoilers.

I can't decide between Voyager and DS9, both started really bad, but after season 2~ they made me love Star Trek. I wish I have 3 seasons of Star Trek waiting for me to be seen like u have.

pwecangetlost · March 2013

marcusdkane wrote: »

I think the problem with Voyager for me, lies squarely on the shoulders of Kate Mulgrew... She was happy to use the principles of the Federation as a Moral Highground when someone pissed her off, but was equally quick to abandon them and do what she wanted when someone else pissed her off...

So, Mulgrew was the writing team, producers and director?

marcusdkane · March 2013

pwecangetlost wrote: »

So, Mulgrew was the writing team, producers and director?

No, just the weakest link in a chain of weak links... Much of the issue with Voyager, is the same issue as Enterprise: Brannon Braga. As you point out, the writing team, producers and directors all played a part. There was some good writing, there was some less than good writing, but she was the mouthpiece through which it all came to life. Two actors will play the same part very differently. For example, Alex O'Loughlin portrays Steve McGarrett in a very different way to Jack Lord, even though the character himself is essentially the same. Different actors have different strengths, and I think Genevieve Bujold would have portrayed Janeway in a very different way to Kate Mulgrew. While of course, an actor is somewhat at the whim of a writer and director, a good actor stamps their own mark on the role and takes a script as a springboard to launch off. Mulgrew, on the other hand, I felt merely did what the script called for, rather than going the extra mile... But that's just my .2c

lincolninspace · March 2013

glados122 wrote: »

I really loved Voyager because of the story.
Simply a crew who wanted to go back home after the Caretaker incident.

But my favor lies in Star Trek Enterprise.

I like the Johnathan archer character and I loved the art direction and the show was better than people give it credit. Having more of the same Trek on tv was still better than having yet another CSI.

lincolninspace · March 2013

marcusdkane wrote: »

I think the problem with Voyager for me, lies squarely on the shoulders of Kate Mulgrew... She was not the original choice for the role, it should've been Genevieve Bujold. The character was never written for her, and I think that re-casting is where all Kathryn's weaknesses come to the fore... The thing that got me the most about her, was her inconsistency... She was happy to use the principles of the Federation as a Moral Highground when someone pissed her off, but was equally quick to abandon them and do what she wanted when someone else pissed her off... Sure, Kirk did whatever the hell he wanted whenever he wanted, but he was at least consistent about it. Same with Picard. There were times when he was truly hamstrung by the principles of the Federation and tended to break them only in the gravest of circumstances. Janeway, on the other hand, I would equate more to Riker: Comes across as everyone's best buddy, but when told something he/she didn't like, would become petulant and snotty in their treatment of others and grossly unprofessional. Captain Ransom, on the other hand, now he had big cojones... :cool: He knew full well he was going against Federation principles, but was doing so to protect his crew. I imagine that before his breakdown, Fleet Captain Garth was very similar...

I don't know, for much of the show the writers only showed the characters "business side" the bold face she had to put on in front of the crew.

sjokruhlica · March 2013

lincolninspace wrote: »

Having more of the same Trek on tv was still better than having yet another CSI.

Can't argue with that Mr. Spock logic.

marcusdkane · March 2013

lincolninspace wrote: »

I don't know, for much of the show the writers only showed the characters "business side" the bold face she had to put on in front of the crew.

I always took that as a sign that she felt that she couldn't be feminine, without losing the ability to command the crew (and that is certainly how I felt Kate Mulgrew played the part) I just feel that Genevieve Bujold might have portrayed a woman more comfortable with her femininity who could have shown a more 'off duty' side, without losing respect (Somewhat like Captain Lockley on Babylon 5...)

Star Trek Voyager

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