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Cryptic, please don't make the Romulans a wuss!

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  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    erei1 wrote: »
    Doubtful. Sela is against the Tal Shiar. She is also unaware of the truth behind the supernova. She may have found Taris is repsonsible.
    She will probably be the leader for the Romulan.
    I'd love that, but at the same time this is the Sela who tried to invade and sieze Vulcan under the guise of 'reunification' she doesn't seem like the sort of person who would be in favor of liberating anyone from oppression, like the teaser page suggests. Also, as the Leader of the Romulan Star Empire, she probably wouldn't be in favor of revolt or the creation of a Romulan Republic.

    I'm very happy that they managed to get Denise to do the voicework for Sela, but I am not optimistic of the player working under her (at least for long)
  • darkelfofficerdarkelfofficer Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Did you actually read what I typed? I am well aware of the history of the Byzantine Empire (or Eastern Roman Empire, if you are bent on splitting hairs). That's why I reconmended them as a more appropriate. And that Part about there beign no successful democracies in the Byzantine Empire? That was also relevent Romulans do not run democracies, they have not since their conception. They are an imperialistic, xenophobic, militaristic society mired in Byzantine politics. In fact, it is the sneaky backstabbing politics, assassinations, etc of the Roman Empire (East and West) that the Romulans draw from more than anything else, taking that away from them and make them into freedom fighters seems rather out of synch with what I have come to expect and like from the Romulans.

    Sweeping generalizations sure are a great way to characterize the hopes and dreams of individuals.

    And we've certainly never seen anything that indicates the average Romulan citizen lives in terror of their government, to the point of even wanting to re-unify with their Vulcan cousins, or would want to defect to the Federation. Nope. Every single Romulan is either a backstabbing Senator or a member of the Tal Shiar.

    And the chaos in Romulan space certainly isn't a prime opportunity to break away from all that.

    The time is now, the day is here.

    If Star Trek really is sci-fi about the human condition, only gross negligence would bypass the story-telling potential of revolution within the Romulan Empire in its current condition. And while it would be great to have the option to side with the Tal Shiar, or whatever, player factions within player factions would be a nightmare for Cryptic to produce.

    And it's not like siding with freedom fighters eliminates the potential for skulduggery. There's plenty of espionage in revolution.
  • redheadguyredheadguy Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Cryptic, please don't make the Romulans a wuss!

    I was really hoping to play the classic Romulans, Tal'Shiar and all. But I actually I don't mind a fresh start. But... please do not make a second Federation or make us play those fake Romulans on New Romulus.

    Aliens have the right to be different from the US!!! It is bad enough they ruined the Ferengi on DS9. Please do not mess up our Romulans with that boring, arrogant Western narcissism!!

    Wait a second;
    I thought we were talking about STO?? And yet somehow you manage to work in an insult to myself and every American on the planet?
    Geee, I wonder how that could have happend? :rolleyes:
    [SIGPIC]

    [/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    But the Romulans in STO will be pansies like the Federation.
    There's nothing pansy about space elves and their pet Epohh Bunnies! Nothing! Just you wait, I'm going to fly a unicorn class spaceship and glitterwell the feds to death in pee vee pee!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • daroskadaroska Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The playable Romulans will be the New Romulus versions.

    There actually isn't anything which says the Romulan Republic is related to New Romulus.

    It's just naturally assumed. But that might be a fool's errand, because D'Tan's secessionists
    look to be tying themselves to vulcan ideals. So would that make them still actual 'romulans'?

    The Romulan Republic might just be another splinter faction of the RSE with more justice
    to it's goals, but nonetheless still very much a 'romulan' (in terms of ethinicity) centric faction.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    redheadguy wrote: »
    Wait a second;
    I thought we were talking about STO?? And yet somehow you manage to work in an insult to myself and every American on the planet?
    Geee, I wonder how that could have happend? :rolleyes:

    While I agree that the part in red is a bit out of line, I think the rest is a valid complaint. Cryptic seems to be takign the Romulans in a drastically different direction than fans are accustomed to seeing them as. Certainly, at the very least, it is disconcerting.
    Sweeping generalizations sure are a great way to characterize the hopes and dreams of individuals.

    And we've certainly never seen anything that indicates the average Romulan citizen lives in terror of their government, to the point of even wanting to re-unify with their Vulcan cousins, or would want to defect to the Federation. Nope. Every single Romulan is either a backstabbing Senator or a member of the Tal Shiar.

    And the chaos in Romulan space certainly isn't a prime opportunity to break away from all that.

    The time is now, the day is here.

    If Star Trek really is sci-fi about the human condition, only gross negligence would bypass the story-telling potential of revolution within the Romulan Empire in its current condition. And while it would be great to have the option to side with the Tal Shiar, or whatever, player factions within player factions would be a nightmare for Cryptic to produce.

    And it's not like siding with freedom fighters eliminates the potential for skulduggery. There's plenty of espionage in revolution.

    On the same token, it's a bit of a generalization to assume that the majority of Romulans are like the reunificationists when there is every indication that they were an underground minority that still clung to vulcan philosphies and beliefs. The shuttles that were going to be used for the invasion only held a few thousand romulan troops, which is a pretty good indicator of the size of the reunificationist movement being a negligible fragment of the RSE, despite the government working to foster such sentiments over decades in order to feasibly make an attempt to invade Vulcan.

    As for Star Trek being about the human condition, you might have more of a valid point if we were talking about TOS, but ST began to move away from that into exploring the alien-ness of cultures such as the Klingons, Vulcans, and Romulans a long time ago, nothing is lost by allowing Romulans to persist as Romulans instead of conforming to Federation ideals.

    If I wanted to play as a reunificationist, (and there's nothing wrong with that) I'd play as a vulcan, or perhaps a Fed Romulan (if they pop up as a Zen store unlock). Reunificationists were not indicative of the RSE on a whole, and should not be the basis of the one and only Romulan faction.
  • darkelfofficerdarkelfofficer Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    On the same token, it's a bit of a generalization to assume that the majority of Romulans

    Who said anything about a majority? It doesn't take a majority to have a revolution.
    As for Star Trek being about the human condition, you might have more of a valid point if we were talking about TOS, but ST began to move away from that into exploring the alien-ness of cultures such as the Klingons, Vulcans, and Romulans a long time ago, nothing is lost by allowing Romulans to persist as Romulans instead of conforming to Federation ideals.

    Everybody's human. That's a cockamamie argument anyway because the Klingons and Romulans and Vulcans are still informed by human culture because they're fake cultures written by humans. They are mirrors to reflect on the human condition.

    And being a republic doesn't suddenly make somebody Federation 2.1. Americans are very different from the Ancient Greeks and the British. Heck, the 21st century American republic is quite different from the 18th century American republic.
    If I wanted to play as a reunificationist, (and there's nothing wrong with that) I'd play as a vulcan, or perhaps a Fed Romulan (if they pop up as a Zen store unlock). Reunificationists were not indicative of the RSE on a whole, and should not be the basis of the one and only Romulan faction.

    Who said they're reunificationists? It doesn't even make SENSE for them to be reunificationists, since if they were they'd probably just move to Vulcan, or at least the Federation, instead of trying to secede from the Empire or overthrow the Imperial government or whatever it is they're doing. It's more likely that they're Romulans who like being Romulans but don't like being terrorized by the Tal Shiar.
  • tsurutafan01tsurutafan01 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    redheadguy wrote: »
    Wait a second;
    I thought we were talking about STO?? And yet somehow you manage to work in an insult to myself and every American on the planet?
    Geee, I wonder how that could have happend? :rolleyes:

    The part where you assume America = the whole western world is the best unintentional comedy possible.


    "We are smart." - Grebnedlog

    Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Who said anything about a majority? It doesn't take a majority to have a revolution.

    I think you missed the entire point. People (myself included) might want to play as something representative of the RSE, not a tiny splinter group. How would you feel if the entire Federation faction was comprised of vulcan isolationists? because that's what this is like.
    Everybody's human. That's a cockamamie argument anyway because the Klingons and Romulans and Vulcans are still informed by human culture because they're fake cultures written by humans. They are mirrors to reflect on the human condition.

    Well, if you are going to take that stance, than you should understand how Romulans can reflect the human condition perfectly well by staying the way they are. There's nothign wrong with the way they were, and nothing that demanded a revolution.

    As someone with 'Dark Elf' in their username, I would have hoped that you obviously don't fidn the notion of other Sci-Fi/Fantasy cultures being oppressive and back-stabby abhorrent. Seriously, Romulans are the closest thing Star Trek has to Dark Elves, excpet better written. It's a bit silly to single them out.
    And being a republic doesn't suddenly make somebody Federation 2.1. Americans are
    very different from the Ancient Greeks and the British. Heck, the 21st century American republic is quite different from the 18th century American republic.

    That's one heck of an attempt to derail there. This is relevent to the federation and the RSE, not ancient earth republics. At any rate, They specifically mentin that it is a revolt against oppression for the freedom of the RSE subjects, which implies throwing off the social trappings of the RSE. Considerign the RSE is basically the 'anti-federation' as it is, that would make them a heck of a lot closer to the Feds.
    Who said they're reunificationists? It doesn't even make SENSE for them to be reunificationists, since if they were they'd probably just move to Vulcan, or at least the Federation, instead of trying to secede from the Empire or overthrow the Imperial government or whatever it is they're doing. It's more likely that they're Romulans who like being Romulans but don't like being terrorized by the Tal Shiar.

    I said 'basis' meaning that they were based off of the reunificationists in part. That much is rather obvious, as it seems Cryptic has made them 'freedom fighters' in order to have them mesh better with D'tan and his bunch. (D'Tan himself being a reunificationist)
  • chilleechillee Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The part where you assume America = the whole western world is the best unintentional comedy possible.

    "Aliens have the right to be different from the US!!! It is bad enough they ruined the Ferengi on DS9. Please do not mess up our Romulans with that boring, arrogant Western narcissism!!"

    If you read in the proper context, you are possibly inferring such Americancentric views to the wrong chap. Then again, just like your statement, it really is a matter of the point of view.... isn't it?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Cryptic, please don't make the Romulans a wuss!

    I was really hoping to play the classic Romulans, Tal'Shiar and all. But I actually I don't mind a fresh start. But... please do not make a second Federation or make us play those fake Romulans on New Romulus.

    Aliens have the right to be different from the US!!! It is bad enough they ruined the Ferengi on DS9. Please do not mess up our Romulans with that boring, arrogant Western narcissism!!

    Right there with ya buddy. If I wanted to play a 'nice guy' I'd play the Federation, and if I wanted to play a 'brave and honorable warrior' it'd be the Klingons. No, with the Romulans, I want to play a devious, underhanded, backstabbing TRIBBLE who will say and do anything to achieve his ends.
  • nickcastletonnickcastleton Member Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, you may start as wanting to overthrow the oppressive regime but it should IMO start noble but in the end you become the very thing you hoped to overthrow.

    Now that a Romulan story i could sink my teeth into.
    0bzJyzP.gif





    "It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, you may start as wanting to overthrow the oppressive regime but it should IMO start noble but in the end you become the very thing you hoped to overthrow.

    Now that a Romulan story i could sink my teeth into.

    Or your own cold blooded, ruthless and bloodthirsty actions damn you thoroughly in even your own eyes. It's all worth it though to rebuild the Romulan Empire as prosperous, free and happy. You take a grim sort of pride in knowing that this new Romulan Empire will never know the full extent of the sins you've committed to make it happen and so you graciously allow yourself to slide into the background, waiting for the day when the Empire will need you again.

    There are a metric ton of good story ideas and themes they can follow through that let the Romulans be Romulans.
  • darkstarkiriandarkstarkirian Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Cryptic, please don't make the Romulans a wuss!

    I was really hoping to play the classic Romulans, Tal'Shiar and all. But I actually I don't mind a fresh start. But... please do not make a second Federation or make us play those fake Romulans on New Romulus.

    Aliens have the right to be different from the US!!! It is bad enough they ruined the Ferengi on DS9. Please do not mess up our Romulans with that boring, arrogant Western narcissism!!

    Absolutely!! no Wussie Rommies!! that would just make them Feds, and the galaxy isn't big enough for two federations.
    [SIGPIC]Handle: @kirian_darkstar
    Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
    Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC]
    Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited March 2013
    Maybe it will be like the Roman republic ... where a class of super rich control everything and then the class / factional strife and warfare leads to a dictatorship.

    I, for one, welcome our new Romulan overlord ... Empress Sela!
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • daroskadaroska Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    macronius wrote: »
    Maybe it will be like the Roman republic ... where a class of super rich control everything and then the class / factional strife and warfare leads to a dictatorship.

    I, for one, welcome our new Romulan overlord ... Empress Sela!

    See Romulan Republicans? this is an example of what you must fight against!

    They are doomed, doomed, I tell you! For on May 21st we will feast on their very hitpoints!

    Ok, ok, just a bit of Klingon doctrine there, but well! It'll be good moral for those green.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gong1fu1pandagong1fu1panda Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    No? Originally Constantinople was just the Eastern capital of the Roman Empire, and then just kept on going after the Western Empire collapsed (largely due to the Eastern emperors paying off barbarians to bypass their Empire and go bother the Western Empire instead). It wasn't a "follow-up". It was always part of the Roman Empire from its founding. And it's worth noting that there were no large, successful democracies during the lifetime of the Eastern Roman Empire (they did not call themselves Byzantium or Byzantines, because they considered themselves Romans) that would inspire any sort of revolution. And they still had rebellions against the Emperor, most notably the Nika riots, which nearly drove Justinian out of Constantinople.

    So, no.

    edit: OH and the Byzantine Empire, so far as I know, never had anything catastrophic on the scale of having their capital destroyed and basically a state of anarchy that would've allowed a democratic or republican faction to gain traction. Which is, also worth noting, historically kind of the natural reaction of people who've been terrorized by a police state all their lives.

    Romulus and Remus are just the nick names the Federation gave them because the Feds are too lazy to learn "Romulan". It does not mean, the Romulans have found an ancient earth textbook on the ancient Terran Roman Empire and henceforth created Rome 2.0!
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Is there another US I don't know about that's like the Federation???




    Besides your character can be what you want him to be..... All my Feds are evil Section 31 agents and my KDF are good pirates.


    My Romulan will be betraying them all, and buying his time to overthrow whoever is in charge of this...republic Palpitine style.
    GwaoHAD.png
  • calaminthacalamintha Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Why would the Federation allow RSE to join Omega Force after being brutally clear (multiple times!) that RSE will not be allowed to experiment with Borg technology. Why would RSE aid the Federation after an unprovoked attack against a medical research station in 'Divide et Impera' and againts their home planet Rator in 'Preemptive Strike'?

    A different Romulan faction would be much easier to integrate into the story.
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    calamintha wrote: »
    Why would the Federation allow RSE to join Omega Force after being brutally clear (multiple times!) that RSE will not be allowed to experiment with Borg technology. Why would RSE aid the Federation after an unprovoked attack against a medical research station in 'Divide et Impera' and againts their home planet Rator in 'Preemptive Strike'?

    A different Romulan faction would be much easier to integrate into the story.

    Because someone slaps Starfleet high command in the head and is like, "Yo, dude, half your ships are infested with borg technology." and then they get kinda embarrassed because they were caught doing stupid stuff.
  • calaminthacalamintha Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    jermbot wrote: »
    Because someone slaps Starfleet high command in the head and is like, "Yo, dude, half your ships are infested with borg technology." and then they get kinda embarrassed because they were caught doing stupid stuff.

    They are not against Borg technology. They are against non-allied factions having it. It's like nuclear weapons.
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    calamintha wrote: »
    They are not against Borg technology. They are against non-allied factions having it. It's like nuclear weapons.

    So you've just answered your own question haven't you?

    If the RSE joins Omega Force the Federation will stop complaining about them doing what every other member of Omega Force does.
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    calamintha wrote: »
    Why would the Federation allow RSE to join Omega Force after being brutally clear (multiple times!) that RSE will not be allowed to experiment with Borg technology. Why would RSE aid the Federation after an unprovoked attack against a medical research station in 'Divide et Impera' and againts their home planet Rator in 'Preemptive Strike'?

    A different Romulan faction would be much easier to integrate into the story.
    Because that's not the RSE anymore, but the Romulan Republic. I don't know what will happen, but it seems clear it won't be the same empire than before.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zerobangzerobang Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I want to work for Sela, and i will throw Eppohs at D'Tan until he bleeds from the scratches or suffocates from all the fluffy fluff fluff.


    Is it too much to ask to be the evil guy just once?

    ...oh well i guess it is, because without all playable factions holding hands, we can't play coop PvE stuff together...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • calaminthacalamintha Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    erei1 wrote: »
    Because that's not the RSE anymore, but the Romulan Republic. I don't know what will happen, but it seems clear it won't be the same empire than before.

    Which is why this thread was made.

    You will be the one to reshape an empire. Gather allies, go undercover and find the proof that will rally your people to revolt.

    Together, you will rise up against an oppressive regime and demand freedom. You will fight for your people.
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It is the definition of freedom that worries me the most. If that implies a green Federation mirror for the convenience of it all, what's the point? Apart from sexy ships....

    There must be some basic values to fall back to. Suspicion, integrity, and tradition, that's some good basic stuff right there. ;)

    ---

  • gong1fu1pandagong1fu1panda Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    calamintha wrote: »
    Why would the Federation allow RSE to join Omega Force after being brutally clear (multiple times!) that RSE will not be allowed to experiment with Borg technology. Why would RSE aid the Federation after an unprovoked attack against a medical research station in 'Divide et Impera' and againts their home planet Rator in 'Preemptive Strike'?

    A different Romulan faction would be much easier to integrate into the story.

    You could easily say that they changed their mind because the Borg is threat is tooooooooo great a challenge. There are far more inconsistencies on the show. But never mind... just hope the new Republic will be clearly different.
  • gong1fu1pandagong1fu1panda Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    Is there another US I don't know about that's like the Federation???




    Besides your character can be what you want him to be..... All my Feds are evil Section 31 agents and my KDF are good pirates.


    My Romulan will be betraying them all, and buying his time to overthrow whoever is in charge of this...republic Palpitine style.

    Yeah sure, first the episodes force you to be good and than you go all Section 31 until the next batch of episodes force you to fight Section 31 or something. I'm no big role player and I don't hear voices in my head. Guess I'm hopeless.
  • horridpersonhorridperson Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The Romulan Star Empire was never as richly envisioned as the Klingon Empire but there was a particular feel to it that defined it's character, stirred the imagination and made it a worthy foil to the other stellar powers.

    "Balance of Terror" introduced to a calculating and clinical enemy distinct from the more aggressive Klingons. TNG continued the development of the culture creating a Byzantine culture where duplicity and paranoia were the order of the day.

    These are the Romulans that captured my imagination. I had really hoped for a faction that would add another "pole" to the balance of power within the game. Casting the Romulans as "freedom fighters" seems to me anathema to the character that has made the Romulans such an interesting part of the Trek universe. With their new political ideals the New Romulans don't seem much more than Feds with cloaks. Hopefully this isn't what the majority wanted anyway.
    battlegroupad_zps8gon3ojt.jpg

  • genericolagenericola Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    we don't really have quite enough information to draw a firm conclusion about whether the faction will be a "not-federation" yet, the freedom fighters reference could be interpreted in a few ways, the regime the page refers to could be a reference to a regime that governs in an increasingly "un-romulan" way and we could be set about righting the "un-romulanness"of this new regime that short on legitamcy, resorts to increasingly brutal methods to shore up its powerbase, legitimacy etc.

    somehow I doubt it though.
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