how much endgame content sto has compared to ddo? well, let's see. considering that sto just finished it's third anniversary while ddo just passed it's seventh, i'd say a really good amount. the endgame on a personal level already has two tracks with rewards that you can collect progressively over the course of six weeks, casually. the endgame on a group level (fleet system) already have base content in-place (6 instances and 2 adventure zones) that less than a dozen fleet have already managed to reach at least tier 4...in just 3 months. from what i understand, ddo endgame breaks down into "raids," "epic," and "resurrection" or something. for raids, they have 10 or so raids. i doubt they had all 10 raids available when ddo's endgame was introduced. just like i don't believe that sto's content that rewards fleet marks will only remain at 6 instances. i believe that they'll have a base amount, then continue adding content in the future. just like every mmo that ever existed.
"grind that you can enjoy" is perspective. what you find grinding in ddo as "enjoyable," someone else grinding through the same content may not share that opinion. you are still grinding. i certainly did not enjoy grinding batcave raids in dc universe online for 5 months. but because of the twitch-action nature of the combat system, it was easier to digest. i also did not enjoy grinding through three hours in dynamis on final fantasy xi, but the teamwork and sensitive strategy involved made it exciting. so i don't understand how you're going to compare "grind you can enjoy" to content that's in sto. it's low difficulty, relatively faster than stfs, doesn't require much manpower, and different variations of enemies appear at higher levels. as far as "varied" goes, sto fleet mark missions don't have dynamically changing objectives as the mission progresses. that's just the nature of the design. or an engine limitation, who knows.
you keep forgetting that sto barely passed it's third anniversary. ddo is in it's seventh year and probably has end-game fleshed out. tera introduced one area, nexus, and a very basic reputation system one month after launch. dc universe online had three raids and the fourth hadn't been introduced until 6 months after that endgame system was introduced. final fantasy xi in japan had to wait two years for their endgame to arrive, and even then it was just one high level adventure zone. for sto have two different endgame systems with multiple sources of content where endgame rewards can be earned, plus laying a foundation for future endgame content, before it reached it's third year anniversary is pretty extraordinary in my experience.
"better rewards" - compared to what? ddo? you can't compare rewards like that. sto endgame rewards are better than what's currently available through other means. period.
"better content" - this is a matter of perspective. i personally like the content that's currently available. it's quick, low to moderate difficulty, and guaranteed progressive rewards.
"more varied content" - this is also a matter of perspective. you're comparison to ddo fails. that game is seven years old. sto is in it's third year. how many different ways can you spin a sci-fi ip with strict boundries to make it fair and enjoyable?
"that would make things more achievable" - again, a matter of perspective. i've already explained this in my original post. what is this -- you can cap reputation in less than two months? your fleet of 20 dedicated or 30 casual can reach a tier 5 starbase in seven months. did i mention that impatient people can buy dilithium (lolcheaters)? what, the fleet system was only introduced less than a year ago and small casual fleets (like mine) are already halfway done? while big fleets are starting tier 5, what? lol.
come on. my argument doesn't fall. in fact, you've helped me strengthen it. risk vs reward, man. risk vs reward.
Wrong go back and look at DDO when it went F2P in 2009, it was chocked full of content and had only been around for 3 years, in fact in it's first year the game already had a massive amount of content the Demon Sands alone was epic in size and scope, The problem is your taking STO to be an AAA title that had had the benefit of a large team and good publisher. It didn't it had Atari and it's been playing catch up ever since.
The content is boring, everyone knows this it's not something that just a few people are saying. To be honest it's not even opinion at this point it's pretty much a consensus and sure Cryptic aren't entirely to blame the previous publishers and the current ones no doubt are not great to work for but there are thing they could do with what they have right now to arrest some of the decline in interest even little things.
For example, the ability to save boff layouts and tray layouts for each ship, I find myself serially avoiding swapping out ships, which really is one of the few areas of the game where if your willing to spend money you can have variation... but the variation is essentially stymied by not even having the most basic ability to save a layout. That's the kind of thing along with plenty of other bugs and half finished content that gives many people on here the feeling of a beta game, which for a game in it's 3rd year is not a great thing at all.
Now, you may have a differing opinion but thus far it's in the minority. The idea that there are multiple sources of end-game content is funny, because every ground and space mission is the same formulaic 10 minute grind down a very linear path... in comparison to story rich, well pathed and puzzled non linear quests and raids in other games.
The sad part is they have a random-content generator engine. They just refuse to put any effort into it.
Just like they refuse to do a great many things.
I can't claim to speak for everyone but I think I represent a good slice of the playerbase.
I think I would be more willing to stick around/stick it out if the EP hadn't come on here and told us we weren't playing by his numbers. The fact is they want us to play a certain way and conform to a certain standard -- which is not customer-focused/customer-leading design as I understand it.
They are trying to make a product for a market that just doesn't exist. The Trekkies who form the core of this game simply do not have weeks to spend grinding. And frankly we're sick of this endless war on all fronts.
Sadly this state of affairs was predicted by quite a few folks on here (myself included) when the first gotcha-boxes hit the screen. Nothing matters except what fits in those boxes. Nothing matters except the things they can sell. And even then the effort is half-TRIBBLE or less. Yeah I refer to the Andorian Ship.
you understand my pain. i also played ffxi since launch. but i think you're comparing sto now to final fantasy xi now. if that's true, you're looking at the situation incorrectly.
try to compare FFXI (JP) at 3yrs versus STO at 3 yrs. sto had wayyy more content than ffxi.
btw, did sqex finally reveal how treasure hunter worked? oh they did -- after 10 years?
Ah, yes I was comparing during the 8 years I played which was from about just over 3 years after its launch. I came in not long after the cap hit 75.
But during the time I played, I'd have to say there was more content. Though FFXI did involve a heavier grind (before they ruined it and increased cap to 99) I did find it more enjoyable as it was in my opinion a long grind with a good amount of depth, good quests / story and the crafting system was good as well, where STO seems to be a very repetitive grind in comparison. I hope that STO get's away from that and does grow as I do love playing this game and being a part of Star Trek.
However depending on what kind of direction Star Trek Online takes, will determine how much time I spend on here and how much time I spend on the new FFXIV. I can only hope that STO stands the tests of time.
P.S. To answer your other question, yeah they eventually answered the treasure hunter question LOL!
Wrong go back and look at DDO when it went F2P in 2009, it was chocked full of content and had only been around for 3 years, in fact in it's first year the game already had a massive amount of content the Demon Sands alone was epic in size and scope, The problem is your taking STO to be an AAA title that had had the benefit of a large team and good publisher. It didn't it had Atari and it's been playing catch up ever since.
since you missed what our discussion was about, the issue is that people are leaving the game or leaving their fleets because of the endgame content season 6 and season 7 introduced. my argument, is that the endgame content in sto is not as bad as everyone has made it out to be. compared to other mmos, sto's endgame is easy. i am not considering cryptic to be a triple-a developer or sto to be a triple-a title. i'm aware of the history of the development behind sto. i don't even understand how you assumed all that. if you want to compare the total content of ddo to sto to prove a point, that's fine. it's irrelevant. but that's fine. from what i understand, demon sands introduced level cap to 12 and intoduced a "chockfull" of content. if this is your way of telling me that at the three-year mark, ddo had so much content that players were blissfully satisfied and everyone was happy in ddo-land, there was no discord among the players about the state of endgame, players were joining the game in hordes instead of leaving, and as far as the playerbase was concerned the game was perfect. if your answer to this was "yes," then i graciously concede this part of the discussion. if your answer was "no," then you've realized my point.
The content is boring, everyone knows this it's not something that just a few people are saying. To be honest it's not even opinion at this point it's pretty much a consensus and sure Cryptic aren't entirely to blame the previous publishers and the current ones no doubt are not great to work for but there are thing they could do with what they have right now to arrest some of the decline in interest even little things.
i was not aware you took the time to gather the information needed to form a consensus that represents the entire sto playerbase. i couldn't understand the last part of that sentence. in fact after reading that, i don't think i have enough breadcrumbs to get home.
"boring" is a matter of perspective. "fun" is perspective. endgame is supposed to be a challenge. endgame rewards are something you have to make steady progress towards. who gets top end gear instantly in a sanctioned endgame system. i don't play ddo, but from what you've been telling me, everyone gets top end gear after one run through a raid and have a jizzful amount of pleasure while doing it.
For example, the ability to save boff layouts and tray layouts for each ship, I find myself serially avoiding swapping out ships, which really is one of the few areas of the game where if your willing to spend money you can have variation... but the variation is essentially stymied by not even having the most basic ability to save a layout. That's the kind of thing along with plenty of other bugs and half finished content that gives many people on here the feeling of a beta game, which for a game in it's 3rd year is not a great thing at all.
really? i had no idea that mmos had no irritating bugs even three years after release. which mmos have you been playing, pray tell (i was being sarcastic). btw, has anyone had problems with their boff layout since the latest patch? i sure as hell haven't. basically you went off topic...again. i probably shouldn't even be replying to this, but i'll humor you instead.
Now, you may have a differing opinion but thus far it's in the minority. The idea that there are multiple sources of end-game content is funny, because every ground and space mission is the same formulaic 10 minute grind down a very linear path... in comparison to story rich, well pathed and puzzled non linear quests and raids in other games.
season 6 and season 7 introduced 6 new instances and 1 adventure zone and revamped an existing adventure zone to reward marks used for endgame. that's a total of 8 areas (relatively high level content) at the general time around sto's endgame introduction. for quick example, i compared it to dcuo's 3 areas at launch, tera's 1 area at introduction, and final fantasy's 1 area introduction. yet, you think that's laughable and your only source for reference is ddo's expansion that raised the level cap to 12 and introduced a "chock full" of content. i guess ddo has the best endgame in the universe.
Not true, just compare other AAA MMO's to this one, no other currently active MMO with a big Franchise would have a whole year of it's Development dubbed "The Year of No Content"
Sure eventually the Uber 16 hour a day grinders will get through everything and get ahead of content development in nearly every MMO, but firstly that demographic shouldn't be pandered to anyways and secondly, in comparison STO most other MMO's have a veritable bounty of end game content.
That might not all be Cryptics fault, Atari rushed the game and they've been playing catch up ever since, but lets face it if you compare this game to others there is a stark dearth and it's really that dearth that makes dealing with the grind requirements a bore fest and is forcing people out of the game.
You didn't even read this thread did you. (Not to mention just quoting one part of my post out of context - but hey, the rest doesn't really fit whatever off point you're trying to make.)
Still - I do find your comment of:
Sure eventually the Uber 16 hour a day grinders will get through everything and get ahead of content development in nearly every MMO, but firstly that demographic shouldn't be pandered to anyways and secondly, in comparison STO most other MMO's have a veritable bounty of end game content.
Interesting because:
The 800 lbs gorilla (aka WoW) got to where it is tooday BY pandering to those '16 hour a day grinders' in it's first two years.
Grinding is EVE Online's ONLY real content, period. Mine asteroids, hunt NPC pirates/wormhole 'sleepers' (with limited AI); kill and loot other players, or sit in a hanger all day, playing the market.
And actually, most other MMOs don't always have a veritable bounty of endgame content (look at SWToR, TSW, Age of Conan) -- the ones that do now have had 5+ years development time over STO.)
And honestly, if I compare STO to the MAJORITY of other MMOs, I find:
- LESS overall 'grind' (and if you believe otherwise, you haven't played most of these other MMO that have a 'bounty of endgame content'.)
- An ability to log in for a short period and actually make decent progress in one or two areas.
^^^
You still can't do that in a lot of MMOs today. So, yeah, while STO has its problems and shortfalls, overall, I still find aspects of it I enjoy, or I wouldn't continue playing it. If/When it gets to the point that's no longer the case for me, I'll quit playing STO and move on to some other game/passtime I find enjoyable.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
because of F2P I snagged some friend into this game and we created a fleet because we love to play together. We're tier 1 about a week or so from tier 2. Some of us really want the gear, others not so much, however we all love the space combat. In todays era of gaming, not much can compare with STO space combat. (please star citizen, don't let me down).
Funnily enough, because of the massive grind that is this games end game (I'd say far worse than even vanilla WoW to some degree) I've already lost a fleet mate. Then again he can be very fickle so I'm not worried about him. I just wish there was more end game. I don't truly care about the SB or Embassy stuff, I have rep I can grind, but I with there was more than a few ESTFs that were reliable to finish, and the Fleet Actions.
I dunno. I just want more to do than the same few Fleet Actions. Since they took FMs from Foundry missions, I barely touch those anymore. Which is sad, cause there are some really damn good foundry missions out there. FM's are honestly my small fleets big issue. That and some of the needs for all those common doffs. My personal limit on my main toon is 250. I've traded several green for common doffs. doesn't seem worth it.
in our 500 man KDF fleet there are always 15+ people online, sometimes to 50
you got to "wait" for a project to open and you are glad you've got to donate something, as the projects fill up within seconds.
there are always folks ready to jump in for some fleet content/ pvp / stf's
Have you read what the thread is about?
It is about small fleets not beeing able to complete projects in decent times.
It is about small fleets members sick of too much grind and effort for NOTHING and leaving the game
It is about some ( many ) people ingame that doesn't want to be in large 500 men fleet.
Who cares about your 500 men fleet doing projects in 5 seconds?
Our 500 men fleet does that too.
lol. does no one here understand how endgame works? fleet starbase and personal reputation systems are super easy compared to other endgame systems on other high profile mmos.
the fact that you can buy zen for dilithium to use on projects makes it even easier. only the impatient will resort to buying zen.
personal reputation system: takes under six weeks to cap from start. super super easy. and you unlock a ton of nice gear.
fleet starbases: takes what, seven months or something? everyone can contribute? and you can purchase zen to make dilithium to use on upgrade projects?
special cosmetic upgrades: these are timed projects. i think that's a problem. they shouldn't be timed.
it's hilarious reading posts QQ about sto's endgame. it's like these players never played mmos before.
You are right I have never played any other mmos before. And so what?
It's hilarious seeing people that can't be objective at all.
Buy Zen to then buy Dil and complete project ?
How about I may , let say, do not want throwing like 2000$ in the game?
Personal reputation system has nothing to do with the thread wich is :
Small fleets suffer from a great disadvantge VS large fleets.
7 months to complete a full starbase? how nice you have read the release note on season 6
Obviously you are not in a small fleet or else you would have x3 x4 or x5 that 7 months .
> My fleet have not even reached T3 shipyard ... let me think : How long has season 6 been released for already?
Cosmetics (vanity) projects are only ONE part of the issue : how having to pay 900k, 1.900m, or 3.4m Dil for upgrade would be decent for let say a 10 members fleet casual?
since you missed what our discussion was about, the issue is that people are leaving the game or leaving their fleets because of the endgame content season 6 and season 7 introduced. my argument, is that the endgame content in sto is not as bad as everyone has made it out to be. compared to other mmos, sto's endgame is easy.[...]
I'm not goign to go into comparison with other mmos since I haven't played any beside sto.
Beside, if considering Starbase as an endgame content, I would definitly not call it an easy to get.
And yes people in small fleets are leaving game or for a few of them joining megafleet X because they cant stand to grind both for personal and fleet recquirement.
i was not aware you took the time to gather the information needed to form a consensus that represents the entire sto playerbase. i couldn't understand the last part of that sentence. in fact after reading that, i don't think i have enough breadcrumbs to get home.
Now you are aware of it. I'm part of that consensus.
Oh and by the way about the time needed to gather information ? How about you spend 1 hour in the game gathering players feelings either on zone or other private/public chans of your knowledge?
1 hour shoud be little money when you think 16hours grind is an 'easy get' for you
Well you would be surprised to see how many players are aware too.
"boring" is a matter of perspective. "fun" is perspective. endgame is supposed to be a challenge. endgame rewards are something you have to make steady progress towards. who gets top end gear instantly in a sanctioned endgame system. i don't play ddo, but from what you've been telling me, everyone gets top end gear after one run through a raid and have a jizzful amount of pleasure while doing it.
Again, no one is saying you have to get end gear instantly.
Again this is no about personal gear
Again about small fleets disadvantage.
Now if you see as 'fun' doing same fleet events 200 times/week it is indeed a matter of perspective. In wich case I must have lost perspective . Or maybe I haven't?
1. Smaller fleets could be losing players who are gravitating towards larger fleets with more advanced starbases -- why grind for a starbase with say 20 other players when you can possibly join a 400+ strong fleet with a Tier 4 or Tier 5 starbase already built?
2. I know that there are some nights when I log in...look at all of the possible tasks that I need to accomplish (devote some time for the fleet (dilithium farming, fleet marks, etc.), then work on my reputation projects) that I suddenly realize that I will be on for hours with not a whole lot to really show for it. I.E., the grind syndrome. The game then feels more like work than play...
The Klingon Black Fleet is a very old fleet -- been around since at least the late 1990s/early 2000's...and was a powerhouse in Starfleet Command...in STO, we are not that numerous. Only about four or five on at a time...and so the grind to keep us going is somewhat extreme, to say the least. Oddly though...none of the KBF have left the fleet. We persevere...but it is more about attitude and loyalty to the fleet than devotion to STO, to be honest. And...that is what keeps me playing, even as a Klingon -- in a small fleet with an under-developed faction. Loyalty.
You are right I have never played any other mmos before. And so what?
It's hilarious seeing people that can't be objective at all.
Buy Zen to then buy Dil and complete project ?
How about I may , let say, do not want throwing like 2000$ in the game?
Personal reputation system has nothing to do with the thread wich is :
Small fleets suffer from a great disadvantge VS large fleets.
7 months to complete a full starbase? how nice you have read the release note on season 6
Obviously you are not in a small fleet or else you would have x3 x4 or x5 that 7 months .
> My fleet have not even reached T3 shipyard ... let me think : How long has season 6 been released for already?
Cosmetics (vanity) projects are only ONE part of the issue : how having to pay 900k, 1.900m, or 3.4m Dil for upgrade would be decent for let say a 10 members fleet casual?
I'm not goign to go into comparison with other mmos since I haven't played any beside sto.
Beside, if considering Starbase as an endgame content, I would definitly not call it an easy to get.
And yes people in small fleets are leaving game or for a few of them joining megafleet X because they cant stand to grind both for personal and fleet recquirement.
Now you are aware of it. I'm part of that consensus.
Oh and by the way about the time needed to gather information ? How about you spend 1 hour in the game gathering players feelings either on zone or other private/public chans of your knowledge?
1 hour shoud be little money when you think 16hours grind is an 'easy get' for you
Well you would be surprised to see how many players are aware too.
Again, no one is saying you have to get end gear instantly.
Again this is no about personal gear
Again about small fleets disadvantage.
Now if you see as 'fun' doing same fleet events 200 times/week it is indeed a matter of perspective. In wich case I must have lost perspective . Or maybe I haven't?
Of course the overlord will no doubt call him an outliner(and to be fair that's true) - but there is a SOLO Fed fleet - 1 guy who has finished T4 sci upgrade and will start T4 shipyard upgrade in 4 days. Full completion of tier 4 estimate is another month or so. He was the first to complete a tier 3 solo back in Oct under the much harder old/original system. I will be joining his fleet after he completes the T4 starbase. Granted by his own admission he thinks the "experiment" is insane and no-one else should waste their time doing what he has done.
since you missed what our discussion was about, the issue is that people are leaving the game or leaving their fleets because of the endgame content season 6 and season 7 introduced. my argument, is that the endgame content in sto is not as bad as everyone has made it out to be. compared to other mmos, sto's endgame is easy. i am not considering cryptic to be a triple-a developer or sto to be a triple-a title. i'm aware of the history of the development behind sto. i don't even understand how you assumed all that. if you want to compare the total content of ddo to sto to prove a point, that's fine. it's irrelevant. but that's fine. from what i understand, demon sands introduced level cap to 12 and intoduced a "chockfull" of content. if this is your way of telling me that at the three-year mark, ddo had so much content that players were blissfully satisfied and everyone was happy in ddo-land, there was no discord among the players about the state of endgame, players were joining the game in hordes instead of leaving, and as far as the playerbase was concerned the game was perfect. if your answer to this was "yes," then i graciously concede this part of the discussion. if your answer was "no," then you've realized my point.
i was not aware you took the time to gather the information needed to form a consensus that represents the entire sto playerbase. i couldn't understand the last part of that sentence. in fact after reading that, i don't think i have enough breadcrumbs to get home.
"boring" is a matter of perspective. "fun" is perspective. endgame is supposed to be a challenge. endgame rewards are something you have to make steady progress towards. who gets top end gear instantly in a sanctioned endgame system. i don't play ddo, but from what you've been telling me, everyone gets top end gear after one run through a raid and have a jizzful amount of pleasure while doing it.
really? i had no idea that mmos had no irritating bugs even three years after release. which mmos have you been playing, pray tell (i was being sarcastic). btw, has anyone had problems with their boff layout since the latest patch? i sure as hell haven't. basically you went off topic...again. i probably shouldn't even be replying to this, but i'll humor you instead.
season 6 and season 7 introduced 6 new instances and 1 adventure zone and revamped an existing adventure zone to reward marks used for endgame. that's a total of 8 areas (relatively high level content) at the general time around sto's endgame introduction. for quick example, i compared it to dcuo's 3 areas at launch, tera's 1 area at introduction, and final fantasy's 1 area introduction. yet, you think that's laughable and your only source for reference is ddo's expansion that raised the level cap to 12 and introduced a "chock full" of content. i guess ddo has the best endgame in the universe.
Hmm, I can tell from your posts that it's pretty much a waste of time to engage with you as you seem to be unable to fully understand what is being said. You take odd phrases and exaggerate them with no basis at all for comparison.
Firstly please re-read this phrase "Demon Sands alone" means just that update prior to that there were a number of updates and that wasn't even the last update of year 3 and it spent 3 good years as subscription only. Also getting to Level 12 in DDO would be like getting to level 60 in this game. I have 4 characters in DDO and none of them are have yet gone through their first resurrection.
The point of this discussion is not that people are leaving because they don't want to grind, it's because the content you have to do in this game in order to grind is poor. For example all end-game content requires you to grind only two types of mission Linear Combat Space and Linear Combat Ground. There is no variation, the engine was ported from Champions and simply cannot offer more variation it seems without further modification. That total of 8 areas you talk about is irrelevant because it's the same narrow type of gameplay with no existent puzzles and non existent variance.
It is irrelevant whether it's easy or hard, it's boring due in part to engine restrictions but that is the case. Can you honestly say that you find any of the fleet events addictive? does anyone ever enjoy Freighter defence? The point here is crappier the content the higher the rewards have to be in order to get people to bother with it, before they introduced higher mark rewards for Fleet Events many people avoided them like the plague.
That is the point here other AAA MMO's (and Star Trek Online is listed as AAA) have been successful because they have delivered their grind into variable gameplay and non-linear puzzle rich missions / quests that people actually enjoy repeating. If you ask most players in STO if they would still be playing if it was Space Commander Online and has not Star Trek IP, the answer would be "no", If you asked a WoW player if they'd still play if they switched to D&D setting I'm pretty sure most would stay on because it is the mechanics of the game not the IP that is the strong point.
With regards to comparisons with DCUO, why are you comparing STO at 3 years with DCOU at launch... you seem to be breaking your own rules. I wouldn't call Tera a AAA title by any stretch. You seem to have failed to understand why I am comparing DDO to STO and that is that DDO at 3 years had content people enjoyed repeating, when it went Free 2 Play it's first year as Free 2 Play was the most successful in MMO history, because it had content worth repeating. That is the key to having a successful MMO, not how much content you have not how good your graphics are, but simply put how enjoyable the content is to repeat.
You seem to be getting a little angry and trolly about all this so perhaps it's best you don't reply your final paragraph was full of vitriol.
Of course the overlord will no doubt call him an outliner(and to be fair that's true) - but there is a SOLO Fed fleet - 1 guy who has finished T4 sci upgrade and will start T4 shipyard upgrade in 4 days. Full completion of tier 4 estimate is another month or so. He was the first to complete a tier 3 solo back in Oct under the much harder old/original system. I will be joining his fleet after he completes the T4 starbase. Granted by his own admission he thinks the "experiment" is insane and no-one else should waste their time doing what he has done.
So wait what was your argument here? Outlier completes insane task, tells other people not bother = What are small fleets moaning about?
Also when I say I've not played in a while, that while is equal to = 3 weeks. I don't need to come back into the game especially now the PVP wrapper is dead.
The Klingon Black Fleet is a very old fleet -- been around since at least the late 1990s/early 2000's...and was a powerhouse in Starfleet Command...in STO, we are not that numerous. Only about four or five on at a time...and so the grind to keep us going is somewhat extreme, to say the least. Oddly though...none of the KBF have left the fleet. We persevere...but it is more about attitude and loyalty to the fleet than devotion to STO, to be honest. And...that is what keeps me playing, even as a Klingon -- in a small fleet with an under-developed faction. Loyalty.
Our fleet is akin to yours. We have been around since 1990 and keep going via a core group of about half a dozen people. We recently made T3 and the grind turned off a lot of people. Hell many paid other fleets for access to their T5 materials which I kind of think defeats the purpose but hey yet another short sighted aspect of the STO experience on the part of the management team at Cryptic. For example, the dilithium cap is nothing more than a monetization of a social value stream and an extreme one at that to be sure. Sad really....
Those in my fleet have been waiting since STO was first announced (prior to Cryptic taking over) for a playable Romulan faction in a Star Trek MMO. We are already prepared to grind out from zero whatever it takes to make it back to the top of the heap as a community as part of a proper Romulan faction but sadly most now think - based on Cryptic's track record that a real Romulan faction wont be released soon. Consequently interest in STO has dropped of considerably over the past several months. We had over a hundred in our fleet last year and almost twice that the previous year, now we have less than half and of that group, less than half are even active, and of that group less that half are on every day. It is so frustrating to say the least.... :mad:
I hate F2P with such a passion because of this exact very situation which happens, over and over again with such grind & gate environments designed with a single purpose to exploit players.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
Our fleet is akin to yours. We have been around since 1990 and keep going via a core group of about half a dozen people. We recently made T3 and the grind turned off a lot of people. Hell many paid other fleets for access to their T5 materials which I kind of thing defeats the purpose but hey yet another short sighted aspect of the STO on the part of the management team at Cryptic. For example, the dilithium cap is nothing more than a monetization of a social value stream and an extreme one at that to be sure. Sad really....
Those in my fleet have been waiting since STO was first announced (prior to Cryptic taking over) for a playable Romulan faction in a Star Trek MMO. We are already prepared to grind out from zero whatever it takes to make it back to the top of the heap as a community on a Romulan faction but sadly most now think - based on Cryptic's track record that a real Romulan fleet wont be released soon. Consequently interest in STO has dropped of considerably over the past couple months. We had over a hundred in our fleet last year now he have less than half and of that group less than half are even active and of that group less that half are on every day. It is so frustrating to say the least.... :mad:
Despite what some posters here will have you believe you are not the only one to experience this. Honestly the only defense of the situation I hear a lot is that "Oh it's you other people are doing fine", the reality however is very different this isn't just "me".
Yes it is perfectly reasonable and easy to get a starbase to T4 on your own IF you have a lot of money to waste on buying dilithium or you have nothing better to do than grind 24/7 or you find exploits to gain massive quantities of things you need.
For those of us unfortunate enough to not see the value for money in spending hundreds/thousands of pounds/dollars on a game and cannot exploit things we are left with a massive grind. Then you get others toting their new toys in front of you and the devs make content harder to keep up with the new toys. Where does that leave you from a small fleet? Well out in the dust.
My small fleet (about 10) had just finished the T3 upgrade and we had to have a serious look at where it was going as 4-5 people were doing 95% of the work to get there. It was going to require over 20 million dilithium alone to get to get the starbase from T3 to T5 with another 6 million for the embassy.
By the time we get there we'll have another 2 or 3 extra tabs like the embassy requiring another 20 million in total. It is not fun trying to grind it on your own and most people do not want to put dilithium into a starbase as it is needed for a lot of endgame items and Zen. Fleet marks I believe was something like 1.2 million needed and in the NEW system it might be possible.
Either way we looked and thought F this, join larger fleet and gift current base to some friends who just got screwed over by a leader gone power mad and throwing tantrums every 5 minutes.
Oh and I expect tons of responses saying recruit more or just do it at your own pace.
1) It's hard getting someone to join a struggling starbase because they will have to contribute.
2) We do want all the new toys at a comparative rate to how much bloomin time, effort and resources we put in.
3) Most players just want to join a high level base, get the great gear and do as little as possible.
4) A lot of people are still bank raiding.
@bpharma - We are a very small fleet with about the same number of people doing most of the work and we recently hit T3. Anyway, if you are interested in talking about joining our intrepid, dynamic and very sociable older community (with something of a twisted geek sense of humor) please feel free to contact me in game for a chat. My user name is: @.Spartan.
Regarding "gifting" the SB, you should consider asking them to buy it from you (to prevent a casual attitude about just what effort it took to achieve that level and more importantly a potential profit motive - I'll explain later if you contact me). Anyway, from what I estimate it costs about 400,000000+ EC to develop a Sb/E to that level. Food for thought.....
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
I think its the greed of the playerbase and Cryptic alike that is destroying this game. So many people are only interested in what they can take from the Fleet because Cryptic has engineered the game that way.
PvP has been destroyed by a few elitist Fleets who rule the PvP queues and its just not fun being in a pug group against pre-made group. I have always believed Cryptic should have two sets of queues. One for hardcore "ranked" play and one for casual "pug" groups so that you can actually have fun.
@bpharma - We are a very small fleet with about the same number of people doing most of the work and we recently hit T3. Anyway, if you are interested in talking about joining our intrepid, dynamic and very sociable older community (with something of a twisted geek sense of humor) please feel free to contact me in game for a chat. My user name is: @.Spartan.
Regarding "gifting" the SB, you should consider asking them to buy it from you (to prevent a casual attitude about just what effort it took to achieve that level and more importantly a potential profit motive - I'll explain later if you contact me). Anyway, from what I estimate it costs about 400,000000+ EC to develop a Sb/E to that level. Food for thought.....
Spartan I am very familiar with your fleet, myself and the leaders of what is our old fleet were in your IRF channel until recently when it became very quiet. We are also aware of what you're fleet is like and recent events so I'm afraid I will have to decline even if we hadn't already moved all our characters to the new fleet.
In regards to your selling the fleet, we wanted it to go to people who we know are friendly and will be able to manage it and grab new members. We have also agreed to leave a character in that fleet to help the transition and to give the new owners the backing of at least 4 lifers should any problems arise. We did consider selling it but we thought helping some friends who we thought were screwed over was a better idea and more in keeping with the ideals of Star Trek anyway.
_ Thanks to season 6 and 7 my small main fleet has been dying, people deserting it, and this mostly due to the insane cost of everything - starbase related AND game related -.
And NO I don't want to join another super mega fleet X; I liked the way my small fleet was with friendly people that know each others.
And Yes I am also in a super mega fleet X on some other toon and guess what ? I like my small friendly fleet 1000000000000 times more.
Now I'm not saying I'm against large fleets , as i'm in both kind ( large/small).
I'm just saying Thanks to Cryptic for not considering small fleets.
And NO we don't want to merge with other fleets in a future state of the game as we spent way too much time and effort building the starbase ( only T2 sb and nearly T3 shipyard and stopping there because of future costs.).
_ Thanks for making the cost of EVERYTHING so high that no one sane enough and willing to stay more than a week wants to join a T2 fleet now there are several T4 and few T5 around.
But Thanks again now that my fleet is dead, we'll never get a chance to pass T3.
_ Thanksfor the Grindfest Glory and for LYING and LURING us when you say only a few hours a week needed in order to :
- grind for self items / set
- grind for starbase
- grind for reputation
- (eventually enjoy the game)
This caused my fleetmates to not trust the game anymore and leave. This kind of method to attract more players in is pityfull and in total disrespect of your playerbase.
There is a limit to achievements and goals in a game.
I'd like here not to complete starbase in 3 years from now.
_ Thanks to the so long list of bugs that you can make an encyclopedia with it; and that have not been fixed ever.
That causes my fleetmates to leave too.
_ Thanks to the producers favorishing large fleet.
How about you got it all wrong ? How about we don't care beeing in a 500 members fleet ? How about the lot of us like small guild scheme ?
How about 95% of players in a 500 fleet members are just fillers/ tools to feed the monster?
_ Thanks for having not LISTENED to that matter from your playerbase since day 1 and Thanks for having starbase system designed such as you totally disrespect once again small fleet or casual players.
_ Thanks for the last moment changes such as the one that happened recently regarding the foundry update. Thanks because it is showing on daylight how decisions are beeing deeply and wisely thought before release state.
so Thanks for killing my fleet , now i can go on solo mode again. But guess what ? It is getting boring very fast.
The reason why I still try to stick around ?
I love StarTrek.
You have an incredibly huge players fanbase that would love to have a deeper game to be played;
Please stop the travesty.
Yes it is perfectly reasonable and easy to get a starbase to T4 on your own IF you have a lot of money to waste on buying dilithium or you have nothing better to do than grind 24/7 or you find exploits to gain massive quantities of things you need.
For those of us unfortunate enough to not see the value for money in spending hundreds/thousands of pounds/dollars on a game and cannot exploit things we are left with a massive grind. Then you get others toting their new toys in front of you and the devs make content harder to keep up with the new toys. Where does that leave you from a small fleet? Well out in the dust.
My small fleet (about 10) had just finished the T3 upgrade and we had to have a serious look at where it was going as 4-5 people were doing 95% of the work to get there. It was going to require over 20 million dilithium alone to get to get the starbase from T3 to T5 with another 6 million for the embassy.
By the time we get there we'll have another 2 or 3 extra tabs like the embassy requiring another 20 million in total. It is not fun trying to grind it on your own and most people do not want to put dilithium into a starbase as it is needed for a lot of endgame items and Zen. Fleet marks I believe was something like 1.2 million needed and in the NEW system it might be possible.
Either way we looked and thought F this, join larger fleet and gift current base to some friends who just got screwed over by a leader gone power mad and throwing tantrums every 5 minutes.
Oh and I expect tons of responses saying recruit more or just do it at your own pace.
1) It's hard getting someone to join a struggling starbase because they will have to contribute.
2) We do want all the new toys at a comparative rate to how much bloomin time, effort and resources we put in.
3) Most players just want to join a high level base, get the great gear and do as little as possible.
4) A lot of people are still bank raiding.
Hi, Quick question... Since S7 I have noticed a drastic decline in fleet activity. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this as well? The grind has gotten to some folks and they just don't want to play anymore...
If it isn't just localised to one fleet and is infact game wide, will Cryptic take note of this?
the fleet i am in is doing as well as ever. getting close to having tier 5 complete and doing well on the embassy too.
we do get new members from fleets ran by dictators that are losing members and a few members from fleets that have become inactive.
i still see individuals looking for a fleet to join and i see fleets recruiting. as i have always said; good fleets will flourish and bad fleets will perish.
seems to me that space is full of ships and someone is getting a lockbox ship about every minute it seems like.
i play pvp and i use to have to wait in ques, but now, the wait in pvp is nothing and i see plenty of fleets in pvp.
the fleet i am in is doing as well as ever. getting close to having tier 5 complete and doing well on the embassy too.
we do get new members from fleets ran by dictators that are losing members and a few members from fleets that have become inactive.
i still see individuals looking for a fleet to join and i see fleets recruiting. as i have always said; good fleets will flourish and bad fleets will perish.
seems to me that space is full of ships and someone is getting a lockbox ship about every minute it seems like.
i play pvp and i use to have to wait in ques, but now, the wait in pvp is nothing and i see plenty of fleets in pvp.
And how many members in your fleet exactly?
Again the thread is : Small Fleets Having A Hard Time.
Comments
Wrong go back and look at DDO when it went F2P in 2009, it was chocked full of content and had only been around for 3 years, in fact in it's first year the game already had a massive amount of content the Demon Sands alone was epic in size and scope, The problem is your taking STO to be an AAA title that had had the benefit of a large team and good publisher. It didn't it had Atari and it's been playing catch up ever since.
The content is boring, everyone knows this it's not something that just a few people are saying. To be honest it's not even opinion at this point it's pretty much a consensus and sure Cryptic aren't entirely to blame the previous publishers and the current ones no doubt are not great to work for but there are thing they could do with what they have right now to arrest some of the decline in interest even little things.
For example, the ability to save boff layouts and tray layouts for each ship, I find myself serially avoiding swapping out ships, which really is one of the few areas of the game where if your willing to spend money you can have variation... but the variation is essentially stymied by not even having the most basic ability to save a layout. That's the kind of thing along with plenty of other bugs and half finished content that gives many people on here the feeling of a beta game, which for a game in it's 3rd year is not a great thing at all.
Now, you may have a differing opinion but thus far it's in the minority. The idea that there are multiple sources of end-game content is funny, because every ground and space mission is the same formulaic 10 minute grind down a very linear path... in comparison to story rich, well pathed and puzzled non linear quests and raids in other games.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Just like they refuse to do a great many things.
I can't claim to speak for everyone but I think I represent a good slice of the playerbase.
I think I would be more willing to stick around/stick it out if the EP hadn't come on here and told us we weren't playing by his numbers. The fact is they want us to play a certain way and conform to a certain standard -- which is not customer-focused/customer-leading design as I understand it.
They are trying to make a product for a market that just doesn't exist. The Trekkies who form the core of this game simply do not have weeks to spend grinding. And frankly we're sick of this endless war on all fronts.
Sadly this state of affairs was predicted by quite a few folks on here (myself included) when the first gotcha-boxes hit the screen. Nothing matters except what fits in those boxes. Nothing matters except the things they can sell. And even then the effort is half-TRIBBLE or less. Yeah I refer to the Andorian Ship.
Ah, yes I was comparing during the 8 years I played which was from about just over 3 years after its launch. I came in not long after the cap hit 75.
But during the time I played, I'd have to say there was more content. Though FFXI did involve a heavier grind (before they ruined it and increased cap to 99) I did find it more enjoyable as it was in my opinion a long grind with a good amount of depth, good quests / story and the crafting system was good as well, where STO seems to be a very repetitive grind in comparison. I hope that STO get's away from that and does grow as I do love playing this game and being a part of Star Trek.
However depending on what kind of direction Star Trek Online takes, will determine how much time I spend on here and how much time I spend on the new FFXIV. I can only hope that STO stands the tests of time.
P.S. To answer your other question, yeah they eventually answered the treasure hunter question LOL!
since you missed what our discussion was about, the issue is that people are leaving the game or leaving their fleets because of the endgame content season 6 and season 7 introduced. my argument, is that the endgame content in sto is not as bad as everyone has made it out to be. compared to other mmos, sto's endgame is easy. i am not considering cryptic to be a triple-a developer or sto to be a triple-a title. i'm aware of the history of the development behind sto. i don't even understand how you assumed all that. if you want to compare the total content of ddo to sto to prove a point, that's fine. it's irrelevant. but that's fine. from what i understand, demon sands introduced level cap to 12 and intoduced a "chockfull" of content. if this is your way of telling me that at the three-year mark, ddo had so much content that players were blissfully satisfied and everyone was happy in ddo-land, there was no discord among the players about the state of endgame, players were joining the game in hordes instead of leaving, and as far as the playerbase was concerned the game was perfect. if your answer to this was "yes," then i graciously concede this part of the discussion. if your answer was "no," then you've realized my point.
i was not aware you took the time to gather the information needed to form a consensus that represents the entire sto playerbase. i couldn't understand the last part of that sentence. in fact after reading that, i don't think i have enough breadcrumbs to get home.
"boring" is a matter of perspective. "fun" is perspective. endgame is supposed to be a challenge. endgame rewards are something you have to make steady progress towards. who gets top end gear instantly in a sanctioned endgame system. i don't play ddo, but from what you've been telling me, everyone gets top end gear after one run through a raid and have a jizzful amount of pleasure while doing it.
really? i had no idea that mmos had no irritating bugs even three years after release. which mmos have you been playing, pray tell (i was being sarcastic). btw, has anyone had problems with their boff layout since the latest patch? i sure as hell haven't. basically you went off topic...again. i probably shouldn't even be replying to this, but i'll humor you instead.
season 6 and season 7 introduced 6 new instances and 1 adventure zone and revamped an existing adventure zone to reward marks used for endgame. that's a total of 8 areas (relatively high level content) at the general time around sto's endgame introduction. for quick example, i compared it to dcuo's 3 areas at launch, tera's 1 area at introduction, and final fantasy's 1 area introduction. yet, you think that's laughable and your only source for reference is ddo's expansion that raised the level cap to 12 and introduced a "chock full" of content. i guess ddo has the best endgame in the universe.
You didn't even read this thread did you. (Not to mention just quoting one part of my post out of context - but hey, the rest doesn't really fit whatever off point you're trying to make.)
Still - I do find your comment of:
Interesting because:
The 800 lbs gorilla (aka WoW) got to where it is tooday BY pandering to those '16 hour a day grinders' in it's first two years.
Grinding is EVE Online's ONLY real content, period. Mine asteroids, hunt NPC pirates/wormhole 'sleepers' (with limited AI); kill and loot other players, or sit in a hanger all day, playing the market.
And actually, most other MMOs don't always have a veritable bounty of endgame content (look at SWToR, TSW, Age of Conan) -- the ones that do now have had 5+ years development time over STO.)
And honestly, if I compare STO to the MAJORITY of other MMOs, I find:
- LESS overall 'grind' (and if you believe otherwise, you haven't played most of these other MMO that have a 'bounty of endgame content'.)
- An ability to log in for a short period and actually make decent progress in one or two areas.
^^^
You still can't do that in a lot of MMOs today. So, yeah, while STO has its problems and shortfalls, overall, I still find aspects of it I enjoy, or I wouldn't continue playing it. If/When it gets to the point that's no longer the case for me, I'll quit playing STO and move on to some other game/passtime I find enjoyable.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I really think you should try playing again for a bit if you are going to keep complaining about every little thing in the game.
I have 14 toons and am able to play each one every day
Funnily enough, because of the massive grind that is this games end game (I'd say far worse than even vanilla WoW to some degree) I've already lost a fleet mate. Then again he can be very fickle so I'm not worried about him. I just wish there was more end game. I don't truly care about the SB or Embassy stuff, I have rep I can grind, but I with there was more than a few ESTFs that were reliable to finish, and the Fleet Actions.
I dunno. I just want more to do than the same few Fleet Actions. Since they took FMs from Foundry missions, I barely touch those anymore. Which is sad, cause there are some really damn good foundry missions out there. FM's are honestly my small fleets big issue. That and some of the needs for all those common doffs. My personal limit on my main toon is 250. I've traded several green for common doffs. doesn't seem worth it.
you got to "wait" for a project to open and you are glad you've got to donate something, as the projects fill up within seconds.
there are always folks ready to jump in for some fleet content/ pvp / stf's
Have you read what the thread is about?
It is about small fleets not beeing able to complete projects in decent times.
It is about small fleets members sick of too much grind and effort for NOTHING and leaving the game
It is about some ( many ) people ingame that doesn't want to be in large 500 men fleet.
Who cares about your 500 men fleet doing projects in 5 seconds?
Our 500 men fleet does that too.
You are right I have never played any other mmos before. And so what?
It's hilarious seeing people that can't be objective at all.
Buy Zen to then buy Dil and complete project ?
How about I may , let say, do not want throwing like 2000$ in the game?
Personal reputation system has nothing to do with the thread wich is :
Small fleets suffer from a great disadvantge VS large fleets.
7 months to complete a full starbase? how nice you have read the release note on season 6
Obviously you are not in a small fleet or else you would have x3 x4 or x5 that 7 months .
> My fleet have not even reached T3 shipyard ... let me think : How long has season 6 been released for already?
Cosmetics (vanity) projects are only ONE part of the issue : how having to pay 900k, 1.900m, or 3.4m Dil for upgrade would be decent for let say a 10 members fleet casual?
I'm not goign to go into comparison with other mmos since I haven't played any beside sto.
Beside, if considering Starbase as an endgame content, I would definitly not call it an easy to get.
And yes people in small fleets are leaving game or for a few of them joining megafleet X because they cant stand to grind both for personal and fleet recquirement.
Now you are aware of it. I'm part of that consensus.
Oh and by the way about the time needed to gather information ? How about you spend 1 hour in the game gathering players feelings either on zone or other private/public chans of your knowledge?
1 hour shoud be little money when you think 16hours grind is an 'easy get' for you
Well you would be surprised to see how many players are aware too.
Again, no one is saying you have to get end gear instantly.
Again this is no about personal gear
Again about small fleets disadvantage.
Now if you see as 'fun' doing same fleet events 200 times/week it is indeed a matter of perspective. In wich case I must have lost perspective . Or maybe I haven't?
1. Smaller fleets could be losing players who are gravitating towards larger fleets with more advanced starbases -- why grind for a starbase with say 20 other players when you can possibly join a 400+ strong fleet with a Tier 4 or Tier 5 starbase already built?
2. I know that there are some nights when I log in...look at all of the possible tasks that I need to accomplish (devote some time for the fleet (dilithium farming, fleet marks, etc.), then work on my reputation projects) that I suddenly realize that I will be on for hours with not a whole lot to really show for it. I.E., the grind syndrome. The game then feels more like work than play...
The Klingon Black Fleet is a very old fleet -- been around since at least the late 1990s/early 2000's...and was a powerhouse in Starfleet Command...in STO, we are not that numerous. Only about four or five on at a time...and so the grind to keep us going is somewhat extreme, to say the least. Oddly though...none of the KBF have left the fleet. We persevere...but it is more about attitude and loyalty to the fleet than devotion to STO, to be honest. And...that is what keeps me playing, even as a Klingon -- in a small fleet with an under-developed faction. Loyalty.
Of course the overlord will no doubt call him an outliner(and to be fair that's true) - but there is a SOLO Fed fleet - 1 guy who has finished T4 sci upgrade and will start T4 shipyard upgrade in 4 days. Full completion of tier 4 estimate is another month or so. He was the first to complete a tier 3 solo back in Oct under the much harder old/original system. I will be joining his fleet after he completes the T4 starbase. Granted by his own admission he thinks the "experiment" is insane and no-one else should waste their time doing what he has done.
Hmm, I can tell from your posts that it's pretty much a waste of time to engage with you as you seem to be unable to fully understand what is being said. You take odd phrases and exaggerate them with no basis at all for comparison.
Firstly please re-read this phrase "Demon Sands alone" means just that update prior to that there were a number of updates and that wasn't even the last update of year 3 and it spent 3 good years as subscription only. Also getting to Level 12 in DDO would be like getting to level 60 in this game. I have 4 characters in DDO and none of them are have yet gone through their first resurrection.
The point of this discussion is not that people are leaving because they don't want to grind, it's because the content you have to do in this game in order to grind is poor. For example all end-game content requires you to grind only two types of mission Linear Combat Space and Linear Combat Ground. There is no variation, the engine was ported from Champions and simply cannot offer more variation it seems without further modification. That total of 8 areas you talk about is irrelevant because it's the same narrow type of gameplay with no existent puzzles and non existent variance.
It is irrelevant whether it's easy or hard, it's boring due in part to engine restrictions but that is the case. Can you honestly say that you find any of the fleet events addictive? does anyone ever enjoy Freighter defence? The point here is crappier the content the higher the rewards have to be in order to get people to bother with it, before they introduced higher mark rewards for Fleet Events many people avoided them like the plague.
That is the point here other AAA MMO's (and Star Trek Online is listed as AAA) have been successful because they have delivered their grind into variable gameplay and non-linear puzzle rich missions / quests that people actually enjoy repeating. If you ask most players in STO if they would still be playing if it was Space Commander Online and has not Star Trek IP, the answer would be "no", If you asked a WoW player if they'd still play if they switched to D&D setting I'm pretty sure most would stay on because it is the mechanics of the game not the IP that is the strong point.
With regards to comparisons with DCUO, why are you comparing STO at 3 years with DCOU at launch... you seem to be breaking your own rules. I wouldn't call Tera a AAA title by any stretch. You seem to have failed to understand why I am comparing DDO to STO and that is that DDO at 3 years had content people enjoyed repeating, when it went Free 2 Play it's first year as Free 2 Play was the most successful in MMO history, because it had content worth repeating. That is the key to having a successful MMO, not how much content you have not how good your graphics are, but simply put how enjoyable the content is to repeat.
You seem to be getting a little angry and trolly about all this so perhaps it's best you don't reply your final paragraph was full of vitriol.
So wait what was your argument here? Outlier completes insane task, tells other people not bother = What are small fleets moaning about?
Also when I say I've not played in a while, that while is equal to = 3 weeks. I don't need to come back into the game especially now the PVP wrapper is dead.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Our fleet is akin to yours. We have been around since 1990 and keep going via a core group of about half a dozen people. We recently made T3 and the grind turned off a lot of people. Hell many paid other fleets for access to their T5 materials which I kind of think defeats the purpose but hey yet another short sighted aspect of the STO experience on the part of the management team at Cryptic. For example, the dilithium cap is nothing more than a monetization of a social value stream and an extreme one at that to be sure. Sad really....
Those in my fleet have been waiting since STO was first announced (prior to Cryptic taking over) for a playable Romulan faction in a Star Trek MMO. We are already prepared to grind out from zero whatever it takes to make it back to the top of the heap as a community as part of a proper Romulan faction but sadly most now think - based on Cryptic's track record that a real Romulan faction wont be released soon. Consequently interest in STO has dropped of considerably over the past several months. We had over a hundred in our fleet last year and almost twice that the previous year, now we have less than half and of that group, less than half are even active, and of that group less that half are on every day. It is so frustrating to say the least.... :mad:
I hate F2P with such a passion because of this exact very situation which happens, over and over again with such grind & gate environments designed with a single purpose to exploit players.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Despite what some posters here will have you believe you are not the only one to experience this. Honestly the only defense of the situation I hear a lot is that "Oh it's you other people are doing fine", the reality however is very different this isn't just "me".
I understand your plight.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
For those of us unfortunate enough to not see the value for money in spending hundreds/thousands of pounds/dollars on a game and cannot exploit things we are left with a massive grind. Then you get others toting their new toys in front of you and the devs make content harder to keep up with the new toys. Where does that leave you from a small fleet? Well out in the dust.
My small fleet (about 10) had just finished the T3 upgrade and we had to have a serious look at where it was going as 4-5 people were doing 95% of the work to get there. It was going to require over 20 million dilithium alone to get to get the starbase from T3 to T5 with another 6 million for the embassy.
By the time we get there we'll have another 2 or 3 extra tabs like the embassy requiring another 20 million in total. It is not fun trying to grind it on your own and most people do not want to put dilithium into a starbase as it is needed for a lot of endgame items and Zen. Fleet marks I believe was something like 1.2 million needed and in the NEW system it might be possible.
Either way we looked and thought F this, join larger fleet and gift current base to some friends who just got screwed over by a leader gone power mad and throwing tantrums every 5 minutes.
Oh and I expect tons of responses saying recruit more or just do it at your own pace.
1) It's hard getting someone to join a struggling starbase because they will have to contribute.
2) We do want all the new toys at a comparative rate to how much bloomin time, effort and resources we put in.
3) Most players just want to join a high level base, get the great gear and do as little as possible.
4) A lot of people are still bank raiding.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Regarding "gifting" the SB, you should consider asking them to buy it from you (to prevent a casual attitude about just what effort it took to achieve that level and more importantly a potential profit motive - I'll explain later if you contact me). Anyway, from what I estimate it costs about 400,000000+ EC to develop a Sb/E to that level. Food for thought.....
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
PvP has been destroyed by a few elitist Fleets who rule the PvP queues and its just not fun being in a pug group against pre-made group. I have always believed Cryptic should have two sets of queues. One for hardcore "ranked" play and one for casual "pug" groups so that you can actually have fun.
Spartan I am very familiar with your fleet, myself and the leaders of what is our old fleet were in your IRF channel until recently when it became very quiet. We are also aware of what you're fleet is like and recent events so I'm afraid I will have to decline even if we hadn't already moved all our characters to the new fleet.
In regards to your selling the fleet, we wanted it to go to people who we know are friendly and will be able to manage it and grab new members. We have also agreed to leave a character in that fleet to help the transition and to give the new owners the backing of at least 4 lifers should any problems arise. We did consider selling it but we thought helping some friends who we thought were screwed over was a better idea and more in keeping with the ideals of Star Trek anyway.
Thank you for your offer
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
and this :
Please Dev, D.Stahl, read this.
the fleet i am in is doing as well as ever. getting close to having tier 5 complete and doing well on the embassy too.
we do get new members from fleets ran by dictators that are losing members and a few members from fleets that have become inactive.
i still see individuals looking for a fleet to join and i see fleets recruiting. as i have always said; good fleets will flourish and bad fleets will perish.
seems to me that space is full of ships and someone is getting a lockbox ship about every minute it seems like.
i play pvp and i use to have to wait in ques, but now, the wait in pvp is nothing and i see plenty of fleets in pvp.
And how many members in your fleet exactly?
Again the thread is : Small Fleets Having A Hard Time.