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Fleet decline
romeowhiskey4
Member Posts: 266 Arc User
Hi, Quick question... Since S7 I have noticed a drastic decline in fleet activity. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this as well? The grind has gotten to some folks and they just don't want to play anymore...
If it isn't just localised to one fleet and is infact game wide, will Cryptic take note of this?
If it isn't just localised to one fleet and is infact game wide, will Cryptic take note of this?
Post edited by romeowhiskey4 on
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I still would like to see more use of commodities instead of dilithium for vanity projects or Starbase Provisions that cost Fleet Credits. In all honesty, a raised dilithium cap would solve many problems.
Sooner or later small fleets will be absorbed the way it's going which is a shame.
The next season is going to make or break this game I think... Venture AWAY from the grind and more on the fun side. One would assume they have listened to the mass grumblings anyway...
I still think some kind of scaling system would be nice and there are ways to do it so the system can't be abused. I think Stahl had said they were still looking at options to be able to do that, but who knows.
In all honesty, the UI in the game feels archaic especially when it comes to fleets. Little things like, not being limited to how many ranks you can have or being able to have a tab that allows you to search for people looking for a fleet. Give more people reasons to join a fleet and one thing that would help is once you get your ship your a captain and the leveling system is separate from that. All the other ranks that are higher would only be accessible once you join a fleet and if your assigned to that rank.
Some of these things have been bought up before, but without getting to far off topic, I'd also like more customisation in a fleet, like on the starbase and more emblem options as well as uniforms you only get access to in a fleet, to give fleets a more unique look.
Most of my members are in the fleet for the social aspect and we're all quite good friends and have been for many years in some cases, so with those types of groups I doubt there is much concern for them disappearing and being absorbed into bigger fleets.
I do hope Cryptic act on the feedback and address this sooner than later.
We are holding steady with new recruits but older players are dropping like flies, very bored with the same STFs and nothing else of any remote challenge in the game.
ESD zone chat is just full of fleet recruitment spam, it was never this bad before, I'm guessing fleets are hard up to fill their dwindling ranks.
You can't even get a lot of fleet actions to kick off anymore, its that bad.
Though cryptic will come out and say how profitable everything is, best season ever
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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People swarm back, new and old players alike, to see the new season's content and then the tide washes out and they return to other games.
In particular we had a new season, a winter event and a 3 year anniversary that brought a lot of players into the game again for a pretty long time, and now things have been slow and people will wander off and return later.
After all, they can just come and go and not worry about a monthly fee. Whenever they return, they can just pick up where they left off.
Only us grognards are left to hold down the fort.
People say "why bother? ditch them join a tier 5 fleet"
My answer...
Well My fleet has been around since the creation of fleets in the game, we have history and I busted my TRIBBLE on those projects and I will not turn my back on them.
I just wish those guys trying to make a new fleet now would understand how unpractical it is right now to make a new one and join mine and help us through the harsh times.
So for dil at least, that's been going more for rep stuff, not so much for the SB. I've found if you put in normal projects that don't require dilithium, they tend to get filled more easily.
Still, a more in-depth interface would make my life so much easier. It's not like we're asking for alot, just a little more depth and control over many aspects of the game. Being able to just search for people looking for a fleet, would be a great benefit.
I'm interested to see what happens with Fleet Alliances, I'm not sure about completely merging 2 fleets, but I'd like to see 2 fleets be able to share a starbase or be able to contribute to the other fleets projects. This would be beneficial for my fleet and a sister fleet we have.
And NO I don't want to join another super mega fleet X; I liked the way my small fleet was with friendly people that know each others.
And Yes I am also in a super mega fleet X on some other toon and guess what ? I like my small friendly fleet 1000000000000 times more.
Now I'm not saying I'm against large fleets , as i'm in both kind ( large/small).
I'm just saying Thanks to Cryptic for not considering small fleets.
And NO we don't want to merge with other fleets in a future state of the game as we spent way too much time and effort building the starbase ( only T2 sb and nearly T3 shipyard and stopping there because of future costs.).
_ Thanks for making the cost of EVERYTHING so high that no one sane enough and willing to stay more than a week wants to join a T2 fleet now there are several T4 and few T5 around.
But Thanks again now that my fleet is dead, we'll never get a chance to pass T3.
_ Thanksfor the Grindfest Glory and for LYING and LURING us when you say only a few hours a week needed in order to :
- grind for self items / set
- grind for starbase
- grind for reputation
- (eventually enjoy the game)
This caused my fleetmates to not trust the game anymore and leave. This kind of method to attract more players in is pityfull and in total disrespect of your playerbase.
There is a limit to achievements and goals in a game.
I'd like here not to complete starbase in 3 years from now.
_ Thanks to the so long list of bugs that you can make an encyclopedia with it; and that have not been fixed ever.
That causes my fleetmates to leave too.
_ Thanks to the producers favorishing large fleet.
How about you got it all wrong ? How about we don't care beeing in a 500 members fleet ? How about the lot of us like small guild scheme ?
How about 95% of players in a 500 fleet members are just fillers/ tools to feed the monster?
_ Thanks for having not LISTENED to that matter from your playerbase since day 1 and Thanks for having starbase system designed such as you totally disrespect once again small fleet or casual players.
_ Thanks for the last moment changes such as the one that happened recently regarding the foundry update. Thanks because it is showing on daylight how decisions are beeing deeply and wisely thought before release state.
so Thanks for killing my fleet , now i can go on solo mode again. But guess what ? It is getting boring very fast.
The reason why I still try to stick around ?
I love StarTrek.
You have an incredibly huge players fanbase that would love to have a deeper game to be played;
Please stop the travesty.
Thanks.
I think the entire concept of Reputation System, Starbase System, Embassy etc is great. However, I feel that as usual Cryptic could have implemented it alot better.
1) Why do yiou guys care about the rate at which said Fleet will attain T3 - T5 in Starbase progression?
and
2) if you liike such a small/close Fleet, why does it bother you that 'no one wants to join a T2 Fleet' - as having more people join would eventually turn it into a 'Mega-Fleet', which you claim to not want to become..'?
How is STO's Fleet/Guild progression system all that different from many others in a variety of MMOs (even WoW); and why do those MMOs (and STO) still see people creating new Fleets/Guilds if 'everyone' in a game is just more concerned about getting into a 'made' Fleet/Guild?
The people that make up the Fleet drive the Fleet atmosphere; not the systems or requirements of Fleet/Guild progression. if your small fleet is suddenly dying; maybe the answer as to 'why' lies elsewhere.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
"Working": The most important word of your whole reply.
Are you saying that your fleet was only playing together to get fleet loots?
If it was really just about playing together and enjoying each other's company, then what does progressing very slowly on a loot treadmill matter?
If all of the items tied to fleets were removed, would you still play together? If so, then why is the fleet REALLY falling apart?
Enjoy the game at your own pace.
answers :
1) Why would we be stuck on T2-T3 forever when some other people are T5 and get the 'elitest' stuff in the game? Why do we care about starbase progression at all?
Because it is one of the mainly goal/ achievement in the game for the fleet?
Let me reformulate :
Do you know lot of fleets without starbase ? and I don't mean specific stf or pvp fleets by that.
2) what you are saying is a false argument as it is untrue.
Adding 5 players to 5 already active member base doesnt make it a mega fleet; Having 20 fleet members is even far from 500 mega fleet x standard.
And since you need at least 20 active members to see a significant advancement in base projects you get why it bothers me. And having 20 active daily members means you have a fleet with an average 100 roster.
Wich you are right i claim not to want a 100 roster fleet.
I just can't do it anymore. I can't grind the same ******n STFs, run the same fleet-maps or run the clickies on NR. There is NOTHING in this game that I haven't run hundreds of times.
More than likely I'll be back for a bit in May when the new batch of bugs, lockboxes and content arrive.... How long I stay depends on how much staying power the new content has...
One of the reasons people are so critical of the game is because there is NOTHING LEFT TO DO other than nitpick bugs. When you've run the same STFs at least 2500 times (yes I kept track) you notice the patterns the rythems the ebb-and-flow and the faults and the failures and the glitches and the bugs.
Well Cryptic I hope you're happy 'cause I suspect you wanted us long-termers gone so you can focus on churning newbs for profit.
Good luck.
If you remove the gain potential (dil, loot, access to advanced starbase items, etc.) in STO, what's there to enjoy?
Would anyone participate in STFs if there were no rewards in them?
Would anyone use the DOFF system if there were no rewards in it?
Would anyone participate in the starbase system if it was not rewarding?
Would anyone tag epohhs just for the sake of tagging them?
The list goes on...
yes, basically.
the fact that you can buy zen for dilithium to use on projects makes it even easier. only the impatient will resort to buying zen.
personal reputation system: takes under six weeks to cap from start. super super easy. and you unlock a ton of nice gear.
fleet starbases: takes what, seven months or something? everyone can contribute? and you can purchase zen to make dilithium to use on upgrade projects?
special cosmetic upgrades: these are timed projects. i think that's a problem. they shouldn't be timed.
it's hilarious reading posts QQ about sto's endgame. it's like these players never played mmos before.
Things were going, not amazing, but well, 8 people in the fleet, 5 active on the weekends for more than 4 hours a day.
It was fun, there was a sense of community and especially with STF's where you'd run things just help others get a chance at that piece they'd been hunting down for weeks.
Season 7 put an end to the majority of the fun I had in game, the concept was bad, the execution was atrocious. Within 10 days of Season 7 hitting my fleet was decimated.
I persevered for a while, I tried to recruit but no one was interested in a T2 fleet, I've been interested in Mega Fleets because there was no sense of reward or challenge to it and no buzz from the comradeship you get in working in a small friendly group. The problem simply was that Cryptic made an uphill struggle a totally untenable one.
As such I am not longer an active player at all, it's been about 3 weeks since I last logged on. I await to see what May brings.
Tell me how much end game content does STO have in comparison to say I dunno DDO? How much of that end game content is grind that you can enjoy, that is filled with non-linear missions/quests usually numbering over 30 or so unique and -challenging on repeat- missions...
Exactly at this point is where you argument falls down, because plenty of AAA MMO's have buckets and buckets of enjoyable end game content that doesn't feel like a grind. When I log on to Gianthold in DDO I look forward to it, not so with STO.
Better rewards, Better content, more varied content, that would make things feel more achievable.
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Nobody's saying remove the rewards - the issue with many MMO players (and I've been guilty of this myself in many a game); is they get into a 'must keep up with the Jonses' mentality; and then just startn plying for the loot to keep up; and forget that it's just a game.
When it gets to the point you're not enjoying an activity that you once did, it may be time to back off and take a break, or slow down to a pace where you enjoy what your doing more then worry about the rate at which you're acquiring stuff to advance.
^^
Again, it's easier to analyze and talk about it then to actually do it depending on your personal attitude and situation; but no MMO in existence has enough varied content to keep players from finally hitting that wall where they just see 'the grind' and nothing else.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Not true, just compare other AAA MMO's to this one, no other currently active MMO with a big Franchise would have a whole year of it's Development dubbed "The Year of No Content"
Sure eventually the Uber 16 hour a day grinders will get through everything and get ahead of content development in nearly every MMO, but firstly that demographic shouldn't be pandered to anyways and secondly, in comparison STO most other MMO's have a veritable bounty of end game content.
That might not all be Cryptics fault, Atari rushed the game and they've been playing catch up ever since, but lets face it if you compare this game to others there is a stark dearth and it's really that dearth that makes dealing with the grind requirements a bore fest and is forcing people out of the game.
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Go figure.
1) Not enough new content
2) Too much grind
The first could be eliminated by revamping the random-generator that makes worlds for the exploration cluster missions. Seriously, I just can't do Incursion or Colony again -- it's pure reflex at this point. With a random map/objective generator there would be at least different map layouts and enemy configurations to fight. Keep the same premise as colony: Beam down to a random planet or base and rescue folks/secure data/drive off invaders. Incursion would work with the facility map randomization -- run through a facility and stop saboteurs.
This would increase the replay value of the game significantly.
The second -- I already earned my top-end gear in STFs by playing them dozens of times. Now you want me to play them all over again to unlock even more stuff -- that I have to grind hundreds of times AGAIN to actually BUY the gear... which is bugged.
Same with the Romulan side of things. Run the same handful of missions over and over and over again to unlock... broken gear, bugged doffs and so forth.
Then what? Now that I have all this stuff (in theory) WHAT DO I DO WITH IT? I have no further incentive to run anymore. And now I'm just sick UTTERLY SICK of running this content. Why would I log in again to run it a second or third time on other characters.
LET ME SPELL IT OUT -- it's boring. BORING. That's the worst thing a customer can say about your product. I have no incentive to log in right now -- been there done that have the gear to prove it.
Step up Cryptic -- start deploying RANDOM CONTENT generation of some sort for endgame. You have the technology to do so... make it happen.
I have to agree with you on this one Overlord. This game does feel very rushed and still beta IMO - It lacks a great deal of depth.
I played FFXI Online for 8 years and in that time I could honestly say that I never did "everything" even on an average of say 4-5 hours a day of game time, you couldn't do everything. It was only the hardcore players that spent at least half a day every day doing everything and that was mainly the Japanese players. Funny thing is FFXI probably released major new content every 4-6 months minimum on average and the game started in 2001, it has a total of 4 expansions with another on the way and 2 three part add-ons.
I find it hard not to look at the comparison between other MMO's and how much content there is available to the player base. I can only hope Cryptic step up their game.
how much endgame content sto has compared to ddo? well, let's see. considering that sto just finished it's third anniversary while ddo just passed it's seventh, i'd say a really good amount. the endgame on a personal level already has two tracks with rewards that you can collect progressively over the course of six weeks, casually. the endgame on a group level (fleet system) already have base content in-place (6 instances and 2 adventure zones) that less than a dozen fleet have already managed to reach at least tier 4...in just 3 months. from what i understand, ddo endgame breaks down into "raids," "epic," and "resurrection" or something. for raids, they have 10 or so raids. i doubt they had all 10 raids available when ddo's endgame was introduced. just like i don't believe that sto's content that rewards fleet marks will only remain at 6 instances. i believe that they'll have a base amount, then continue adding content in the future. just like every mmo that ever existed.
"grind that you can enjoy" is perspective. what you find grinding in ddo as "enjoyable," someone else grinding through the same content may not share that opinion. you are still grinding. i certainly did not enjoy grinding batcave raids in dc universe online for 5 months. but because of the twitch-action nature of the combat system, it was easier to digest. i also did not enjoy grinding through three hours in dynamis on final fantasy xi, but the teamwork and sensitive strategy involved made it exciting. so i don't understand how you're going to compare "grind you can enjoy" to content that's in sto. it's low difficulty, relatively faster than stfs, doesn't require much manpower, and different variations of enemies appear at higher levels. as far as "varied" goes, sto fleet mark missions don't have dynamically changing objectives as the mission progresses. that's just the nature of the design. or an engine limitation, who knows.
you keep forgetting that sto barely passed it's third anniversary. ddo is in it's seventh year and probably has end-game fleshed out. tera introduced one area, nexus, and a very basic reputation system one month after launch. dc universe online had three raids and the fourth hadn't been introduced until 6 months after that endgame system was introduced. final fantasy xi in japan had to wait two years for their endgame to arrive, and even then it was just one high level adventure zone. for sto have two different endgame systems with multiple sources of content where endgame rewards can be earned, plus laying a foundation for future endgame content, before it reached it's third year anniversary is pretty extraordinary in my experience.
"better rewards" - compared to what? ddo? you can't compare rewards like that. sto endgame rewards are better than what's currently available through other means. period.
"better content" - this is a matter of perspective. i personally like the content that's currently available. it's quick, low to moderate difficulty, and guaranteed progressive rewards.
"more varied content" - this is also a matter of perspective. you're comparison to ddo fails. that game is seven years old. sto is in it's third year. how many different ways can you spin a sci-fi ip with strict boundries to make it fair and enjoyable?
"that would make things more achievable" - again, a matter of perspective. i've already explained this in my original post. what is this -- you can cap reputation in less than two months? your fleet of 20 dedicated or 30 casual can reach a tier 5 starbase in seven months. did i mention that impatient people can buy dilithium (lolcheaters)? what, the fleet system was only introduced less than a year ago and small casual fleets (like mine) are already halfway done? while big fleets are starting tier 5, what? lol.
come on. my argument doesn't fall. in fact, you've helped me strengthen it. risk vs reward, man. risk vs reward.
you understand my pain. i also played ffxi since launch. but i think you're comparing sto now to final fantasy xi now. if that's true, you're looking at the situation incorrectly.
try to compare FFXI (JP) at 3yrs versus STO at 3 yrs. sto had wayyy more content than ffxi.
btw, did sqex finally reveal how treasure hunter worked? oh they did -- after 10 years?
Wrong go back and look at DDO when it went F2P in 2009, it was chocked full of content and had only been around for 3 years, in fact in it's first year the game already had a massive amount of content the Demon Sands alone was epic in size and scope, The problem is your taking STO to be an AAA title that had had the benefit of a large team and good publisher. It didn't it had Atari and it's been playing catch up ever since.
The content is boring, everyone knows this it's not something that just a few people are saying. To be honest it's not even opinion at this point it's pretty much a consensus and sure Cryptic aren't entirely to blame the previous publishers and the current ones no doubt are not great to work for but there are thing they could do with what they have right now to arrest some of the decline in interest even little things.
For example, the ability to save boff layouts and tray layouts for each ship, I find myself serially avoiding swapping out ships, which really is one of the few areas of the game where if your willing to spend money you can have variation... but the variation is essentially stymied by not even having the most basic ability to save a layout. That's the kind of thing along with plenty of other bugs and half finished content that gives many people on here the feeling of a beta game, which for a game in it's 3rd year is not a great thing at all.
Now, you may have a differing opinion but thus far it's in the minority. The idea that there are multiple sources of end-game content is funny, because every ground and space mission is the same formulaic 10 minute grind down a very linear path... in comparison to story rich, well pathed and puzzled non linear quests and raids in other games.
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