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STF Griefing
joker8me
Member Posts: 55 Arc User
Is there some new fad going on in game where it is now "in-style" to purposely ruin STF missions?
Since I pug STF's, I expect the occasional innocent blunder and that's fine since it obviously comes with the territory. Today however, I ran into 6 successive instances where the instance was intentionally tanked right from the get-go and the player(s) in question reveled about it in chat.
In my experience, I usually run into something like this once or maybe twice a week while averaging 6-8 STF's per day. Have I just been really lucky so far, or have others noticed an increase in this kind of behavior as of late?
Just curious..
Since I pug STF's, I expect the occasional innocent blunder and that's fine since it obviously comes with the territory. Today however, I ran into 6 successive instances where the instance was intentionally tanked right from the get-go and the player(s) in question reveled about it in chat.
In my experience, I usually run into something like this once or maybe twice a week while averaging 6-8 STF's per day. Have I just been really lucky so far, or have others noticed an increase in this kind of behavior as of late?
Just curious..
Post edited by joker8me on
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Well, i've been griping about this for a while now. One thing i suggested is that all "Elite" missions need a failsafe put in place, Like for example on The Conduit Elite. My suggestion for this STF is to have a mission failure if any of the nanite spheres get to the trans. But this is to just put the weaker players off from attempting to join Elites.
However, the trend regarding people deliberately going in and trolling STF's into failure is a whole different ball game. If this is so, then they may have to be a player reporting system where you can post screenshots/videos of the perps involved.
It would be interesting to hear from a Dev or a Mod on this subject to see if deliberately ruining STF's and bragging about it is indeed classed as an infraction. If it's not, then it should be!
STO is no exception, and since we have no means of rating our fellow players, we have no way of avoiding this.
At this point with the STF griefing issue, the community has to do something about it. And that starts with staying out of the public queues for the STFs.
You also completely lock out good-intentioned players who can't rally a 5-man or don't know about private queues and ESTF channels.
You're talking the equivalent of amputating an arm to treat a hangnail.
Then make the information more available. I heard of EliteSTF, through word of mouth, checked the forums for the appropriate post and immediately dropped a join request through the mail. While their rules are sometimes a bit tight, I haven't really had a bad STF since because any grievers are reported to mods and banned from the channel.
This keeps the quality STF players together. And let me tell you, its awesome not having to explain the best way to do an STF and getting told to stfu n00b. We get in, we blow everything up and get our rewards. I don't remember the last time I didn't get an optional.
I don't dispute any of that. But, and forgive my bluntness here, why should the "solution" to a griefer problem come coupled with a massive hit to the ill-informed but well intentioned player? Shouldn't the focus be on getting Cryptic to get off their TRIBBLE and create a functional system that discourages griefing as opposed to leaving the jackass patrol in the hands of players?
And while I agree with your thoughts, lets take a look at Cryptics track record fixing things that should be fixed.
Wait...
Lets not, I don't feel like being that depressed so early in the morning...
In the end, like most of the problems in this game unfortunately, the players will have to find a work-around.
I get very frustrated by the AFKers more than anything else.
Take the Cure Elite space as an example.
You will, especially in a pug, want to leave the 3 cubes alone until you've destroyed all the power node things.
Some people will insist on attacking a cube and destroying it no matter how many times they're told not to.
Just today I had a guy who did this even with everybody else yelling at him to stop. I'm sorry, but even if you don't understand english, a million whispers from your teammates should at least make you pause. Not to mention that he kept going in alone and dying.
Eventually he zerged the cube to death, the other two spawned too many ships and we failed the STF. Either this was griefing, or that person was the stupidest man who ever lived.
For those that are AFK I report them but I'm not certain how to deal with those who are participating but simply don't care whether they complete the mission or not.
In my mind, if I wasn't sure what I was doing, I'd go into a normal STF rather than an elite. Perhaps that's just hindsight though.
I have also seen a lot of this lately.
1. Infected has always been an issue with early generator kills but now they are racing in and blowing a generator before the guard cube is destroyed, and then pulling off to leave the team to deal with the drama.
2. Lately on Vortex They are flying around and calling in the 4 cube guards and then avoiding them. So the cubes go after the probe guards.
3. And as you said, they are blowing the right cube as fast as possible in Cure.
This is not a matter of people not knowing, this is a deliberate act that players are doing simply to grief. The worst part is that Cryptic is to blame 100%. If you get mad and address the griefer. They report you for "code of conduct" violation and Cryptic sends you a little email with a warning..... which just encourages more people to grief.
There is no rule against trashing missions and wasting everyone's time, but there is an hour penalty if you bail on the griefer, and there is a written warning if you yell at the griefer.....
Eisaak
#2311#2700#2316#2500
U want this game to die and powercords to servers unplugged? :eek:
Yes, that can be open to abuse too, but in general it works well in most MMOs I've played, and people need to learn they can't get their jollies from making 4 other players miserable.
Goonswarm would make you rage quit if we had Vote to Kick. DDO and LOTRO do not have this feature and seem to have very few problems with griefing.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
How many STFs do u really join in a row where someone is griefing?
I am playing this game for years and can't even remember when it was when i joined a PUG where someone was griefing.
Yes it happens but not that often.
I prefer to meet a griever once a month/week more then people who are abusing vote to kick
Indeed just look at the mess it made of DCUO
#2311#2700#2316#2500
This is unfortunately true, with the caveat that PWE handles GM stuff and Cryptic isn't directly involved. I also got warnings from GMs back for reporting afkers and I never heard a thing about afkers actually being punished. Instead I hear afkers boasting they have been doing it for weeks with nothing happening to them. Not to mention, if the afkers don't say anything in the chat and just do nothing, there is no way for the GMs to verify if someone actually afk'd or not. They can't do a thing beyond looking at the chat log.
I don't think PWE wants to change this, since a strictly run game scares away casual users, and those are the ones that generate the cash. In WoW or GW2 players who exploit the tiniest of bugs get banned with no mercy, but in PWE games they don't give a TRIBBLE as long as the money is flowing.
The only way this can change is if Cryptic puts actual software checks in the game that filter out and automatically punish griefers and afkers. But they already said they rather reward participating players more. But you know how that will end up looking? You'll get player individual optional objectives which make maybe 10% of the total reward and they'll call it incentives to play. But that the afkers are happy with a low base reward for zero work isn't going to change. And the stupid honest player will still lose out in the end, having to struggle against the odds and getting a low-end base reward because of the overall diminished team fighting power.
Until they get the boot in their face, afkers will always win out in the end.
Btw: Don't say that people don't care about being banned in a F2P game. Most afkers I see fly around in C-Store ships...
Ummmm..... NO.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
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I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I think a lot of it actually seems to have bubbled up recently since Season 7 and is to do with frustration and boredom, Cryptic as I have said have pissed a lot off people of lately and perhaps for some people griefing is more fun than the actual game, it wouldn't be the first time that has happened.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Interesting observation and pathetic if it's real.
If you are bored then go do something else. The motivation to punish other players since the game company has "pissed a lot of people off lately" may as well get radical and be called soft terrorism :eek:
Isn't that the prime reason for all trolling / griefing = boredom.
I wouldn't define the 1st world problem of people griefing computer games as being "Soft Terrorism"
I could see it be a possible cause considering that people were talking about griefing grinder foundry missions with downvotes and mass-plays to effect timers out of rage and others were talking of downvoting Foundry missions in response to the Valentines Day Massacre.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
I'll give you some bloody easy hints - it doesn't involve any coding changes by the devs and can be readily and easily used by every single player in STO right now!
You can not fix the problem behaviors of problem players. Cryptic can not fix the problem behaviors of problem players. But you can avoid the problem behaviors of problem players by sticking with and to only those players on your Friends List.
Take responsibility for your own enjoyment in the game by teaming with only friends and fleet mates that you know.
As a person who exclusively pugs elite stfs, I have to say that this is a terrible suggestion.
The time I get in game is difficult to schedule, I'm in doing elites when I have time and it is more practical and easy for me to pug. Sure, it means I don't always have a great experience, but I'm fine with that.
I would prefer a vote/kick or player rating solution.
We don't need to take a hammer to the problem, it's just not that big of an issue.
Debateable, especially since frustration is another excuse. Griefing/trolling could also be explained by mean-spiritedness, if that's a word.
Frustration with this game is usually the bedfellow of boredom and whilst mean-spiritedness is always a possible cause, if we all agree there as been a spike recently I would probably be leaning to frustration / boredom
#2311#2700#2316#2500
First noticed a few weeks back - all 5 destroyed the main cube and 2 spheres then 4 went left - a short time later nanites start coming out of gate and I look around and no gen is blown - sure enough there was a guy on the other side who did not engage the cube but blew a gen.
I thought at the time just a noob that did not know what he was doing.
Then a few days later it happened again - different guy.
Then a few days later in happen 2x in the same day.
And like I said i don't STF too much - I was wondering if I was the only one to luck out and be put in a pug with these griefers.
It is a bad game design and opens up honest players to griefing from dishonest players.
Example: Right Click - Follow and Set game options to Auto Attack.
Late last night, I was alone and decided to queue up a Fleet Alert. Three of the team members where just on auto follow, leaving myself and the other player to do the mission. I happened to be parsing that run and the AFK guys did a whopping 350k each zone wide...
PvE Pugs should just be removed.