There has been some recent theoretical work done which suggests that while space may be moving, it may NOT be accelerating as previously thought. The theory goes, as I recall, that time is actually much more relative than was previously thought. So at the rim of the universe, the rate of time may be different which only makes movement APPEAR to accelerate.
Point being, applying present understanding to 25th century characters is tricky. They need to know more than we know, which calls for certain "made up" rules for things like time travel.
The most dated science in Trek generally results from cases where the writers had Trek characters' understanding of science match real world science, which was subsequently ditched.
In general, I think you need lots of analogies (time being like a river) and fantasy rules to govern Trek. And they need to sound like things that match the basic workings or outer rim of science as we know it. But you run the risk of being dated whenever you say that there is one way that things "always" or "never" work or rely too heavily on real science without having made-up science tacked on top of it. That said, as a semi-regular enthusiast of Scientific American and scholarly theoretical physics, I do like references to real science. I just think Trek should try to stay fairly neutral on whether contemporary theories are adequate or complete or true in all situations.
I'd probably be so non-committal that I'd have characters say things like:
"Hydrogen GENERALLY has one proton and no neutrons."
"Generally?"
"Well, we made a discovery in 2377 that revolutionized particle physics in very rare cases and..."
"So most of the time Hygrogen has one proton?"
"Yes. It would be unusual if it didn't."
Basically, treat no rules as universal, including ones we take for granted.
Exactly. All of Trek's science in the future, stems from 21st century principles, and things that are currently, regarded as empirical facts. Yet, over time, this can become dated. You can see some of this in the TOS episodes. Like there being a static edge to the universe, for instance. Space is actually moving away at a rate that no 21st century technology could catch it. The science fantasy of Trek then takes that fact, and extrapolates it to "well what if warp drive tech was actually fast enough to catch up to, and pass, the edge of the universe?" Then some prodigy like LaForge, reroutes the watchamajiggy, through the whosamawhats, and there you have it. Yet they are actually nebulous on a lot of aspects of science for the sake of the show, too. Like the amount of machinery, that would be needed to generate a gravity well inside a starship. Or why all starships seem to travel, and meet on the same, two dimensional, plane. Or why there is no inertia, but there is sound, in space. A lot of liberties are taken, in order to make the show exciting, because, let's face it, space travel is a stomach-cramping, exercise in boredom. None of the Treks produced have ever, adequately, addressed the distances involved in space travel. It's always "Klingon? It's over there, other side of the Neutral zone. Romulus? In the Alpha Quadrant". It's all great entertainment though. Kept me engaged for 30+ years.
LOL OK STO does currently support the old series, kind of, but how long do you think that would last if Paramount offered Cryptic the resources from the movie at a reasonable cost?
Instant T6 Connie and everyone would be flying it.
However in the non MMO world where everyone else lives, JJ Trek is THE Star Trek now.
No amount of explaining or facts will take away the fact that JJ's movies are the only currently running series there is.
As for an argument, this is a Trekker forum, we call them "discussions."
Trek encompasses both extra-dimensional travel, and time travel. As the OP rightly points out, the instances Trek has shown of time travel have shown alteration of their timeline, not creation of alternate universes... (The Enterprise-E was, to quote Data "caught in the temporal wake, which somehow protected (us) from the changes in the timeline", much like how Kirk and Spock were protected from the changes in the timeline by being near the Guardian of Forever (What might be referred to as a Fixed Point in Time ) Yes, Nero's time travel should have affected the Primeline, not created an alternate universe. However... It was stated that they were in an alternate universe (as mentioned, so JJ can just use the 'a Wizard did it' cop out for all the plot holes) and that might have been because the travel was through a singularity (possibly a dimensional barrier in addition to a temporal one) rather than simply 'swimming upstream' of the Primeline, as past instances of time-travel had been, so we can accept that the events of the JJ Verse were indeed another alternate dimension, and that STO is a continuation of the Primeline 30 years + from the events of Voyager... A quicker way of saying it, would be f**K JJ and the self-indulgent schlock he calls film-making :mad:
You think The Final Frontier is better than 09 :eek:.
I think that the story of the Final Frontier is better than 09. Had it been filmed as an episode of ToS, it would have been fantastic, it was let down by the embarasing shenanigans of a bunch of geriatrics doddering round the universe as if they were in their 30s... (which was also what let Nemesis down... Which equally would have made a great Season Seven episode, and arguably, a better finale than All Good Things...)
Personally I don't believe in alternate realities because I don't believe in free will. Without free will there is no such thing as choice and without choice you don't generate alternate realities.
I believe in cause and effect. A condition in which free will is an illusion.
Cause and effect negates the possibility of options.
Never understood that position.
A man is offers to give his friend mint or chocolate. The friend is hungry, and has no qualms about accepting the generosity of others; furthermore, the friend likes chocolate, but does not like mint. So the friend accepts the chocolate.
The option to do something else existed, the friend just didn't have any reason to take that option.
Or to put it another way, even when the outcome of a choice is inevitable, a choice is still made.
Anyway, on topic. The parallel universes Worf travelled through in 'Parallels' were referred to as 'quantum realities'; and were marked by unique quantum signatures. That makes them the very thing talked about in the 'Many Worlds Interpretation' of quantum mechanics.
So long as those can be said to exist in the Star Trek universe, then it follows that a time travel event is going to result in the creation of a new one; since 'Nero travelling back in time and destroying the USS Kelvin' is just adding a new possibility that will play out in its own separate quantum space. Equally, it follows that the 'original' timeline didn't involve time travelling humpback whales, Borg trying to prevent first contact with the Vulcans, or Data's head in a cave (unless a predestination paradox is a means of getting around that particular issue).
In fact, we haven't probably seen the 'original' timeline since the very first time travel episode; but it would still exist.
This is one of those threads where the OP has a problem and answers their own problem in their first post.
The OP mentions Quantum Universe theory, where at any single point in time there are an infinite number of possibilities, and a separate universe for every one of those possibilities. In that regard, time travel is itself a possibility that can create a new universe.
Those of us who reject the JJ Universe generally reject the universes that arose from the possibility of time travel. We prefer the pure, untouched "Prime" universe that is unpolluted by the possibilities of time travel.
So yes, OP. The JJ Universe is a separate Trek Universe. You actually can't consolidate all Trek series and all Trek movies into one single Universe of canon. The JJ Universe arose from time travel. The ENT Universe also arose from time travel. The end of Voyager results in a new Universe as a result of time travel, however Voyager begins in the Prime Universe. There are even instances of time travel in the other series, but those almost always end up getting corrected somehow, like Tasha Yar and the battle at Narendra in TNG.
This is one of those threads where the OP has a problem and answers their own problem in their first post.
The OP mentions Quantum Universe theory, where at any single point in time there are an infinite number of possibilities, and a separate universe for every one of those possibilities. In that regard, time travel is itself a possibility that can create a new universe.
Those of us who reject the JJ Universe generally reject the universes that arose from the possibility of time travel. We prefer the pure, untouched "Prime" universe that is unpolluted by the possibilities of time travel.
So yes, OP. The JJ Universe is a separate Trek Universe. You actually can't consolidate all Trek series and all Trek movies into one single Universe of canon. The JJ Universe arose from time travel. The ENT Universe also arose from time travel. The end of Voyager results in a new Universe as a result of time travel, however Voyager begins in the Prime Universe. There are even instances of time travel in the other series, but those almost always end up getting corrected somehow, like Tasha Yar and the battle at Narendra in TNG.
How is star trek enterprise arose from time travel? It is set in the prime verse of star trek and it was not created from time travel it self like the JJ-verse or the last episode of voyager. Enterprise is set after 100 years of cochrane warp flight and before TOS.
It has been explained in Trek, that a timeline that has been altered from the viewer's standpoint constitutes a parallel universe, again stop ignoring the rules set down in TNG Parallels.
Just because an altered timeline (from the viewer's standpoint) shares the same past as our timeline does not mean it is all the same timeline. From our stand point, the altered timeline does not exist after its significant difference is restored, however, that timeline or universe, still exists and goes on. A whole series of Trek Anthologies is based on this concept.
So that means, the Enterprise-E was meant go back in the past, just like Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were meant to go back to the 1930s for our timeline. In other timelines (universes), they still failed and Earth is assimilated and the US does not enter WWII still exist.
There is no evidence that the Borg sphere altered the Prime Universe by being discovered by Arctic One. As a viewer, we were not given enough evidence that there is any changes at all. The Borg sphere was meant to be found in the Prime Universe. There is no such thing as the ENT Universe.
So long as those can be said to exist in the Star Trek universe, then it follows that a time travel event is going to result in the creation of a new one; since 'Nero travelling back in time and destroying the USS Kelvin' is just adding a new possibility that will play out in its own separate quantum space. Equally, it follows that the 'original' timeline didn't involve time travelling humpback whales, Borg trying to prevent first contact with the Vulcans, or Data's head in a cave (unless a predestination paradox is a means of getting around that particular issue).
Star Trek time travel stories are riddled with paradoxes. This would not be the case if time travel worked according to the many worlds interpretation. Also, the crews from the different Treks seem to have a clear understanding of how time travel works, but they take great care not to contaminate the timeline. There's even a Department of Temporal Investigations in the 24th century, and a Temporal Integrity Commission in the 29th century.
As far as ''the rules set down in TNG Parallels'' go, afaik the many worlds interpretation was never mentioned in Star Trek before that episode and it was never mentioned after. The episode never linked it to time travel, either.
How is star trek enterprise arose from time travel? It is set in the prime verse of star trek and it was not created from time travel it self like the JJ-verse or the last episode of voyager. Enterprise is set after 100 years of cochrane warp flight and before TOS.
The sphere builders used time travel to build the spheres in Archer's time. They also influenced the Xindi to go to war with the Federation.
So the ENT series is an alternate universe.
*EDIT: I think the problem you might be having with this is related to the point of view. Archer didn't use time travel, however the universe he lived in was still altered by the sphere builders using time travel. The Federation doesn't need to use time travel leave the Prime Universe. Anyone using time travel to change the course of history, no matter who they are, will cause the entire universe and everyone living within it, to change.
First of all; alternate universe and parralel universe can be used roughly interchangbly.
For example, the Mirror Universe is NEVER called that on screen. it's been refrered to as both parralel and alternate, depending on the writer and speaker.
Secondly, the events of First Contact, thanks to that ENT epsiode, are now understood to be a Predestination Paradox. The fact the Borg know about Earth is what's called a "Bootstrap Paradox", as are Kirk's Glasses, atleast accouriding to Kirk.
We know that the Hobus Event was based in Subspace, just by the fact of playing this game. This, plus the effect of the Black hole, does not discount a diminsional shift as well as temporal one, because the ST canon has not realy delt with the two at once, damaged subspace and the black hole gravity sligshot effect.
The writters specificly used parrales as an example for what they were going for. to say they ignored anything is BS. and besides, we're fighting about stuff people made up anyway. Things do what the writers of that week's epsiode want them to do. The person who wrote "Second Chances" obviously has a diffrent idea about how the transporter works than the one who wrote "Realm of Fear". Stuff changes all the time.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
There is no evidence that the Borg sphere altered the Prime Universe by being discovered by Arctic One. As a viewer, we were not given enough evidence that there is any changes at all. The Borg sphere was meant to be found in the Prime Universe.
Exactly. The drones in Regeneration were responsible for the message to the Delta Quadrant which had the cube en route to Earth in Q-Who (assisted by knowledge assimilated from the Hansens)
Star Trek time travel stories are riddled with paradoxes. This would not be the case if time travel worked according to the many worlds interpretation.
I like to think there's a difference between either travelling back in time within one timestream, and correcting or making changes within it and travelling backwards in time and across a quantum barrier in the same action.
All time travel prior to JJTrek seems to be the first option, shown by changes/resolutions/predestination and anomalies like Sela... As the time travel in 09 was via a singularity, that difference could be responsible for the alternate timeline, rather than a modification of the original
Personally I don't believe in alternate realities because I don't believe in free will. Without free will there is no such thing as choice and without choice you don't generate alternate realities.
I believe in cause and effect. A condition in which free will is an illusion.
I missed this earlier, but I have to wonder what leap of logic brought you to such a belief. A lack of free will assumes predestination, that the path of our lives are predefined and we are just along for the ride. No effort or decision is required on our part as we are mere automatons following our defined path. Defined by whom, again with the invisible man in the sky? That is not how the universe works. Cause varies the choices made available to me and effect is consequences of those choices and although my choices and actions may have infinitely calculable predictable results, the choices are still mine to make, that is free will.
Alternate realities is taken from the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics which implies that all possible past and future events are real separated across an infinite number of universes existing in parallel with this one. This is current scientific thinking and it is not something you can simply deny because you don't understand or accept it.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Because wishing ill will upon people is TOTALLY the kind of thing the lord-savior Gene Roddenberry would want Star Trek fans to do.
Unbelievable how weird people get over this...
:rolleyes:
You want to see the diehard trek-is-my-life crowd go bananas? Start a thread on any of the nonsense ideas Gene made in the first seasons of TNG. Seriously, you'll get the craziest threats. (happened to me once in the past. I found it hilarious, though)
You want to see the diehard trek-is-my-life crowd go bananas? Start a thread on any of the nonsense ideas Gene made in the first seasons of TNG. Seriously, you'll get the craziest threats. (happened to me once in the past. I found it hilarious, though)
Lol - I believe it! I love the Star Trek franchise and being a Trek fan, but I'm not obsessed with it...
The new films are not star trek anymore. There is no great moral behind it, its just popcorn-kino.
There hasn't been "great moral" behind Star Trek since TOS; it pops up every now and again, but certainly not in the same way or with the same force it did in TOS.
I'm just glad JJ's trek managed to be more attractive than Enterprise. Not that I would watch a series based off it, but Enterprise was a mediocre concept at best (and terrible at worst).
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
You want to see the diehard trek-is-my-life crowd go bananas? Start a thread on any of the nonsense ideas Gene made in the first seasons of TNG. Seriously, you'll get the craziest threats. (happened to me once in the past. I found it hilarious, though)
May seem hilirous to you because it probably came out before you time plus, the ideas and theories used in the show could be out of date. In start trek, they use the scientific knowledge in the show, of that time.
May seem hilirous to you because it probably came out before you time plus, the ideas and theories used in the show could be out of date. In start trek, they use the scientific knowledge in the show, of that time.
Right....not like I should bother telling you this, but I was alive when the first series aired so it wasn't "before my time".
...and yep, it is hilarious. Your post kind of illustrates that.
TOS did make a lot of statements about Racism, War, Feminism, the Hippy Flower Power movement or whatever the hell that was called, but it also had a lot of material that was complete nonsense. It took a couple of seasons before TNG finally started to come into its own, when it first came out, I loved the ship, but wished fervently that they would kill off the entire bridge crew, but one thing was always consistent, some of the stories were rubbish and it's science was so full of holes it wasn't even funny. Pseudoscience is not science, it's technobabble.
I'll thank Gene Roddenberry for bringing us Trek but I'm not going to give him a sainthood, he was just another Hollywood type and a lot of his ideas were complete TRIBBLE.
I enjoyed the Abrams film, but some of the things done in it made it seem like something other than Trek. the new warp sequence although cool looking does not loo like Trek, it looks like Star Wars, the location shooting for most of the parts of the ship looked terrible, they could have green screened with CG sets if they couldn't afford to build them rather than shooting in a brewery and the destruction of Vulcan, one of the most significant races in the entire franchise was overkill, but the movie in general did not have any flaws that were so serious as to make the the film not part of Star Trek. There were a few films in the franchise that were far worse.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Anyone ever thought that JJ didnt give 2 hoots about trek lore and wanted that solid gold butt scratcher? Everyone knows his true love is Star Wars... And lo and behold he got it... suffice to say it is highly unlikely he will do another ST movie... maybe he will relinquish command of the franchise and sell it to someone else to allow them to make a new series, burying the films...Too late...the films have happenned...or are going to happen...or may never happen...depending on our univers...but anyhow.... this is the future of Trek... Gritty, dirty and bloody... lots of fireballs and explosions, shields up, Red Alert...love him or hate him, JJ has re-kindled the star trek spark... might not see it for a while but it will come...
Actually, "Parallels" has been mentioned (ironically enough) multiple times. Each time, it's been ignored by those whose pet ideas about time travel don't include multiple universes.
As for changing ideas of how warp drive looks, we can start with the first pilot, with Jeffrey Hunter as Capt. Pike, where it was depicted as a sort of "stretching" in the vision of those on board, not unlike initial depictions of jump drive in the new Battlestar Galactica. The rest of TOS ignored the issue, other than those streaks that couldn't really have been stars; Gene's explanations included one variant where the ship actually entered a subspace realm where distances were much smaller, and the ship was effectively gigantic. (So, as you can see, nonsense technobabble isn't exactly original to TNG.)
The first movie gave us a circle of rainbow streaks; a similar sort of tunneling effect was used in TWOK, if I recall correctly (my copy went missing a few years back). I believe it was TNG that originated the idea of the visual effect being the ship stretching out, then snapping into a blue blaze with a loud "BOOM", like a New Gods Boom Tube. That became pretty much standard after that, because it looks cool; this game decided to accompany it with a pair of light-streaks, like your starship just peeled out (and, of course, the "temporary wormhole" effect of engaging transwarp).
So, as you can see, there have been a lot of variations on what it looks like when you go to warp, and the one chosen for the most recent move (probably chosen by the director of principal photography, whose job that is, rather than the movie's director, whose job involves the actors) is in fact a bit of a callback to the very first episode. Incidentally, it was also the director of photography (whose name escapes me) who was responsible for all the lens flare; he said he wanted to emphasize how shiny and new the ship was. Hopefully, that means that in the next one the lens flare is toned down a lot, since the Enterprise now has a few trillion miles on her...
May seem hilirous to you because it probably came out before you time plus, the ideas and theories used in the show could be out of date. In start trek, they use the scientific knowledge in the show, of that time.
I'm one of those Trekkies that grew up on TOS reruns in the '70s. While there are underlying themes about morality and ethics, the overall point of Star Trek is about having an adventure in space. That's why many people find TMP to be boring, yet the majority love TWOK, TUC and FC - all 3 of which have a ton of "pew-pew-pew kah-B00M" in it.
JJ Abrams' Star Trek is in fact an alternate universe.
BUT it's not quite like you might think.
His universe is very very similar to our universe, but with one slight difference: In our universe, Nero's not a total ****. In fact, he's a hero! In JJ's, Nero is a total ****.
So in OUR universe, when the supernova was expanding and Spock tried to stop it with the red matter, Nero heroically sacrificed himself (somehow, possibly pointlessly) to buy Spock some time. Spock succeeded, inadvertently destroying Romulus, and died himself.
In JJ's universe, Nero was all like "that ain't cool, I'ma go get my revenge and stuff." And therefore, OP, you are correct in your understanding of Star Trek's time travel. However JJ's universe still applies just like the mirror universe.
Comments
Exactly. All of Trek's science in the future, stems from 21st century principles, and things that are currently, regarded as empirical facts. Yet, over time, this can become dated. You can see some of this in the TOS episodes. Like there being a static edge to the universe, for instance. Space is actually moving away at a rate that no 21st century technology could catch it. The science fantasy of Trek then takes that fact, and extrapolates it to "well what if warp drive tech was actually fast enough to catch up to, and pass, the edge of the universe?" Then some prodigy like LaForge, reroutes the watchamajiggy, through the whosamawhats, and there you have it. Yet they are actually nebulous on a lot of aspects of science for the sake of the show, too. Like the amount of machinery, that would be needed to generate a gravity well inside a starship. Or why all starships seem to travel, and meet on the same, two dimensional, plane. Or why there is no inertia, but there is sound, in space. A lot of liberties are taken, in order to make the show exciting, because, let's face it, space travel is a stomach-cramping, exercise in boredom. None of the Treks produced have ever, adequately, addressed the distances involved in space travel. It's always "Klingon? It's over there, other side of the Neutral zone. Romulus? In the Alpha Quadrant". It's all great entertainment though. Kept me engaged for 30+ years.
Your word, not mine.
Never understood that position.
A man is offers to give his friend mint or chocolate. The friend is hungry, and has no qualms about accepting the generosity of others; furthermore, the friend likes chocolate, but does not like mint. So the friend accepts the chocolate.
The option to do something else existed, the friend just didn't have any reason to take that option.
Or to put it another way, even when the outcome of a choice is inevitable, a choice is still made.
Anyway, on topic. The parallel universes Worf travelled through in 'Parallels' were referred to as 'quantum realities'; and were marked by unique quantum signatures. That makes them the very thing talked about in the 'Many Worlds Interpretation' of quantum mechanics.
So long as those can be said to exist in the Star Trek universe, then it follows that a time travel event is going to result in the creation of a new one; since 'Nero travelling back in time and destroying the USS Kelvin' is just adding a new possibility that will play out in its own separate quantum space. Equally, it follows that the 'original' timeline didn't involve time travelling humpback whales, Borg trying to prevent first contact with the Vulcans, or Data's head in a cave (unless a predestination paradox is a means of getting around that particular issue).
In fact, we haven't probably seen the 'original' timeline since the very first time travel episode; but it would still exist.
The OP mentions Quantum Universe theory, where at any single point in time there are an infinite number of possibilities, and a separate universe for every one of those possibilities. In that regard, time travel is itself a possibility that can create a new universe.
Those of us who reject the JJ Universe generally reject the universes that arose from the possibility of time travel. We prefer the pure, untouched "Prime" universe that is unpolluted by the possibilities of time travel.
So yes, OP. The JJ Universe is a separate Trek Universe. You actually can't consolidate all Trek series and all Trek movies into one single Universe of canon. The JJ Universe arose from time travel. The ENT Universe also arose from time travel. The end of Voyager results in a new Universe as a result of time travel, however Voyager begins in the Prime Universe. There are even instances of time travel in the other series, but those almost always end up getting corrected somehow, like Tasha Yar and the battle at Narendra in TNG.
How is star trek enterprise arose from time travel? It is set in the prime verse of star trek and it was not created from time travel it self like the JJ-verse or the last episode of voyager. Enterprise is set after 100 years of cochrane warp flight and before TOS.
Just because an altered timeline (from the viewer's standpoint) shares the same past as our timeline does not mean it is all the same timeline. From our stand point, the altered timeline does not exist after its significant difference is restored, however, that timeline or universe, still exists and goes on. A whole series of Trek Anthologies is based on this concept.
So that means, the Enterprise-E was meant go back in the past, just like Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were meant to go back to the 1930s for our timeline. In other timelines (universes), they still failed and Earth is assimilated and the US does not enter WWII still exist.
There is no evidence that the Borg sphere altered the Prime Universe by being discovered by Arctic One. As a viewer, we were not given enough evidence that there is any changes at all. The Borg sphere was meant to be found in the Prime Universe. There is no such thing as the ENT Universe.
As far as ''the rules set down in TNG Parallels'' go, afaik the many worlds interpretation was never mentioned in Star Trek before that episode and it was never mentioned after. The episode never linked it to time travel, either.
The sphere builders used time travel to build the spheres in Archer's time. They also influenced the Xindi to go to war with the Federation.
So the ENT series is an alternate universe.
*EDIT: I think the problem you might be having with this is related to the point of view. Archer didn't use time travel, however the universe he lived in was still altered by the sphere builders using time travel. The Federation doesn't need to use time travel leave the Prime Universe. Anyone using time travel to change the course of history, no matter who they are, will cause the entire universe and everyone living within it, to change.
For example, the Mirror Universe is NEVER called that on screen. it's been refrered to as both parralel and alternate, depending on the writer and speaker.
Secondly, the events of First Contact, thanks to that ENT epsiode, are now understood to be a Predestination Paradox. The fact the Borg know about Earth is what's called a "Bootstrap Paradox", as are Kirk's Glasses, atleast accouriding to Kirk.
We know that the Hobus Event was based in Subspace, just by the fact of playing this game. This, plus the effect of the Black hole, does not discount a diminsional shift as well as temporal one, because the ST canon has not realy delt with the two at once, damaged subspace and the black hole gravity sligshot effect.
The writters specificly used parrales as an example for what they were going for. to say they ignored anything is BS. and besides, we're fighting about stuff people made up anyway. Things do what the writers of that week's epsiode want them to do. The person who wrote "Second Chances" obviously has a diffrent idea about how the transporter works than the one who wrote "Realm of Fear". Stuff changes all the time.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Predestination for the win :cool:
All time travel prior to JJTrek seems to be the first option, shown by changes/resolutions/predestination and anomalies like Sela... As the time travel in 09 was via a singularity, that difference could be responsible for the alternate timeline, rather than a modification of the original
"If you're wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts
Just repeat to yourself its just a show, you should really just relax...."
Alternate realities is taken from the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics which implies that all possible past and future events are real separated across an infinite number of universes existing in parallel with this one. This is current scientific thinking and it is not something you can simply deny because you don't understand or accept it.
Unbelievable how weird people get over this...
:rolleyes:
You want to see the diehard trek-is-my-life crowd go bananas? Start a thread on any of the nonsense ideas Gene made in the first seasons of TNG. Seriously, you'll get the craziest threats. (happened to me once in the past. I found it hilarious, though)
:cool:
One of those hundreds of thousands of Enterprises might have come from JJ's universe.
There hasn't been "great moral" behind Star Trek since TOS; it pops up every now and again, but certainly not in the same way or with the same force it did in TOS.
I'm just glad JJ's trek managed to be more attractive than Enterprise. Not that I would watch a series based off it, but Enterprise was a mediocre concept at best (and terrible at worst).
May seem hilirous to you because it probably came out before you time plus, the ideas and theories used in the show could be out of date. In start trek, they use the scientific knowledge in the show, of that time.
Right....not like I should bother telling you this, but I was alive when the first series aired so it wasn't "before my time".
...and yep, it is hilarious. Your post kind of illustrates that.
M-theory's a ***** isn't it?
I'll thank Gene Roddenberry for bringing us Trek but I'm not going to give him a sainthood, he was just another Hollywood type and a lot of his ideas were complete TRIBBLE.
I enjoyed the Abrams film, but some of the things done in it made it seem like something other than Trek. the new warp sequence although cool looking does not loo like Trek, it looks like Star Wars, the location shooting for most of the parts of the ship looked terrible, they could have green screened with CG sets if they couldn't afford to build them rather than shooting in a brewery and the destruction of Vulcan, one of the most significant races in the entire franchise was overkill, but the movie in general did not have any flaws that were so serious as to make the the film not part of Star Trek. There were a few films in the franchise that were far worse.
As for changing ideas of how warp drive looks, we can start with the first pilot, with Jeffrey Hunter as Capt. Pike, where it was depicted as a sort of "stretching" in the vision of those on board, not unlike initial depictions of jump drive in the new Battlestar Galactica. The rest of TOS ignored the issue, other than those streaks that couldn't really have been stars; Gene's explanations included one variant where the ship actually entered a subspace realm where distances were much smaller, and the ship was effectively gigantic. (So, as you can see, nonsense technobabble isn't exactly original to TNG.)
The first movie gave us a circle of rainbow streaks; a similar sort of tunneling effect was used in TWOK, if I recall correctly (my copy went missing a few years back). I believe it was TNG that originated the idea of the visual effect being the ship stretching out, then snapping into a blue blaze with a loud "BOOM", like a New Gods Boom Tube. That became pretty much standard after that, because it looks cool; this game decided to accompany it with a pair of light-streaks, like your starship just peeled out (and, of course, the "temporary wormhole" effect of engaging transwarp).
So, as you can see, there have been a lot of variations on what it looks like when you go to warp, and the one chosen for the most recent move (probably chosen by the director of principal photography, whose job that is, rather than the movie's director, whose job involves the actors) is in fact a bit of a callback to the very first episode. Incidentally, it was also the director of photography (whose name escapes me) who was responsible for all the lens flare; he said he wanted to emphasize how shiny and new the ship was. Hopefully, that means that in the next one the lens flare is toned down a lot, since the Enterprise now has a few trillion miles on her...
JJ Abrams' Star Trek is in fact an alternate universe.
BUT it's not quite like you might think.
His universe is very very similar to our universe, but with one slight difference: In our universe, Nero's not a total ****. In fact, he's a hero! In JJ's, Nero is a total ****.
So in OUR universe, when the supernova was expanding and Spock tried to stop it with the red matter, Nero heroically sacrificed himself (somehow, possibly pointlessly) to buy Spock some time. Spock succeeded, inadvertently destroying Romulus, and died himself.
In JJ's universe, Nero was all like "that ain't cool, I'ma go get my revenge and stuff." And therefore, OP, you are correct in your understanding of Star Trek's time travel. However JJ's universe still applies just like the mirror universe.