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There is no JJ/alternate Universe
kaaahhhhhnnnnn
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I am going to post this once and I expect a hundred people trying to explain it to me and it is not that I do not understand what people are trying to say it is that I am saying in Star Trek History, Lore, Past whatever you want to call it Time Travel has changed the present and not created a parallel Universe. Parallel Universes were explored in the Mirror universe stories which followed Quantum theory that every decision that can be made has been made but that is not what happens with JJ ****efest a Romulan goes back and alters the past.
In First Contact when the Borg Sphere goes back in time and prevents Zephram Cochrane's warp flight the Enterprise still in the present witness a change immediately and then go back fix what went wrong and return to the unaltered present.
Again these events change slight things in the past as Borg are left on Earth and that is an example of effect preceding cause as this is what causes the first Borg cube to come to Earth as seen in Q-Who. Again changes in the past effecting the present not creating an alternate timeline where nothing remains changes in the prime universe and an alternate universe is created. There is one timeline, it is a singular and it can be changed and fixed.
In Yesterdays Enterprise when the Enterprise C comes through the temporal rift there is an instant change in the present and then when it goes back the change is again instantaneous as the timeline is repaired a new timeline is not created. Another proof from Star Trek lore is that Sela is created in the present, a new universe is not created as people claim she exists in the prime universe as some people have coined it.
In the Voyager episode Relativity Captain Braxton tries to destroy Voyager in hopes of changing the timeline, not in hopes of creating a new universe. If changes in the past did nothing in your universe but created new universes then there would have been no point for him to destroy Voyager in the past as he would have not reaped the benefits and neither would the Borg in First Contact for that matter.
In Trials and Tribbeations Arne Darvin tries to kill Kirk in the past in the hopes it will change his past and present, again not create an alternate universe where he would not reap the benefits. In that episode also Temporal Investigations confirm that changes would be witnessed in the present although they would not be aware of them.
In the Year of Hell the Krenim Temporal Weapon ship eradicates species and objects from history and the timeline changes resulting in changes in the present, NOT ALTERNATE UNIVERSES! These are all fixed when the weapon ship is destroyed again changing the present!
So my point is this for Vulcan to still exist in STO someone must have gone back in time and saved it from Nero and repaired the timeline.
In First Contact when the Borg Sphere goes back in time and prevents Zephram Cochrane's warp flight the Enterprise still in the present witness a change immediately and then go back fix what went wrong and return to the unaltered present.
Again these events change slight things in the past as Borg are left on Earth and that is an example of effect preceding cause as this is what causes the first Borg cube to come to Earth as seen in Q-Who. Again changes in the past effecting the present not creating an alternate timeline where nothing remains changes in the prime universe and an alternate universe is created. There is one timeline, it is a singular and it can be changed and fixed.
In Yesterdays Enterprise when the Enterprise C comes through the temporal rift there is an instant change in the present and then when it goes back the change is again instantaneous as the timeline is repaired a new timeline is not created. Another proof from Star Trek lore is that Sela is created in the present, a new universe is not created as people claim she exists in the prime universe as some people have coined it.
In the Voyager episode Relativity Captain Braxton tries to destroy Voyager in hopes of changing the timeline, not in hopes of creating a new universe. If changes in the past did nothing in your universe but created new universes then there would have been no point for him to destroy Voyager in the past as he would have not reaped the benefits and neither would the Borg in First Contact for that matter.
In Trials and Tribbeations Arne Darvin tries to kill Kirk in the past in the hopes it will change his past and present, again not create an alternate universe where he would not reap the benefits. In that episode also Temporal Investigations confirm that changes would be witnessed in the present although they would not be aware of them.
In the Year of Hell the Krenim Temporal Weapon ship eradicates species and objects from history and the timeline changes resulting in changes in the present, NOT ALTERNATE UNIVERSES! These are all fixed when the weapon ship is destroyed again changing the present!
So my point is this for Vulcan to still exist in STO someone must have gone back in time and saved it from Nero and repaired the timeline.
Post edited by kaaahhhhhnnnnn on
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There's space for both.
LOL
You are funny... Entertain me more.
The new films are not star trek anymore. There is no great moral behind it, its just popcorn-kino.
That's not what I took away from the reboot. The moral I learned was:
If you've suffered pain and loss and tragedy, you can use that as an excuse to lead a worthless life, or you can choose overcome it and become something better than what you are.
And no Anazonda I am not saying anything I am using examples from established Trek lore to demonstrate they are wrong and bent the franchise just because they could not be bothered to learn the franchise and they wanted to avoid getting slated for continuity errors afterwards.
It might have been called Star Roaming blind in the Opposite direction to Trek
Watch the whole thing! And the other reviews! They're all inspired genius.
Just like about 75% of TOS episodes then.
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"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
blackholes have been shown to have a connection to time travel in DS9 where miles is flashing forward.
In Tomorrow Is Yesterday, the Enterprise slingshotted around a black hole to reach 1969. Didn't fly through it, but technically it used the gravity.
Either you didn't watch TOS or you didn't understand it.....
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
I subscribe to the alternate universe where Sisko returns from the wormhole, travels through time and punches JJ Abrams in the face to prevent his movies from ever being created. That is the universe that is canon to me.
Fanfiction! ZOMG! Read it now!
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A handful of TOS episodes pushed the boundaries of what was acceptable on TV at the time, and carried valid, moral arguments.
And the rest were fun, good sci-fi with a handful of duds thrown in the mix (Spock's Brain, Elaan of Troyius...).
This argument never makes any sense. Does every single episode and film have to have some great morality to it? because i assure you they dont.
there is no 'star trek' that can be defined and quantified in one sentence. it is many things to many people.
many of the episodes were just action episodes where they had to deal with a problem with kirks fists. in XI there is the aspect of coming of age, turning your life around, friendship, love, loss, forgiveness even to nero at the end, who turns down kirks offer to save him. its not purely stuff blowing up for 2 hours.
so why if XI highlights one aspect of trek, does it make it less trek because it did not show the other issues quite as much? why does it make it less trek when other films and episodes have done the exact same?
When Nero went back in time through the black hole, those events created a NEW timeline in parallel with ours. Our timeline remains unchanged, and Nero and Spock are literally in "another dimension".
If you go back in the past and slap your own face, will you remember it? No, because that would be a paradox. You created an alternate existence for yourself, but one you did not experience.
So NO, YOUR ARGUMENT IS NOT VALID OP!!!!
Even a Michael Bay crapfest action movie has a moral to its story if you look hard enough. That doesn't mean it's anything profound or something that hasn't been done to death already. I'm not going to claim that TOS (or any other Trek for that matter) did anything new or groundbreaking in that area, but JJ's Trek really was just a popcorn flick.
At the end of the day, it is merely a fictional dalliance anyway. No need to get stressed over it.
The reason we see the timelines change and it looks like we get overwrritten is because we, the viewers, jump timelines from our perspective as we are following the time travellers who 'jump the timeliens' as well.
As for the argument about why the borg/braxton tried to alter the past, is because if they were able to alter the past, as time travellers, they would have jumped to the new timeline so their plan would have worked.
The Enterprise saw the assimilated Earth because they were caught in the chronometric wave from the Borg's temporal device, and technobabble from the open vortex caused them to jump timelines to the one the Borg had created (since their time portal was open between the two timelines).
So Spock Prime can never get back onto the Prime Timeline branch of this big tree of timelines unless he goes back to the point the Nerada first appeared and stops it from attacking the Kelvin.
That's my view on it anyway.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LyFYv35ANw
I believe in cause and effect. A condition in which free will is an illusion.