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What's the big deal with Antiproton?
vyktori
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I am having a hard time understanding what is so great about Antiproton space weapons. Everyone says "omg go AP on tac/escort blah blah its so ftw". What I don't get is... why AP? So it has a 20% crit damage bonus. Sounds good, but when you have to figure that the only way to get them is craft/fleet/dilithium (some say you can get from elite STF but I don't know anyone who has). This means the modifiers are predetermined. You can't get them with any particular [Mod]x3 , except fleet ones that get [Dmg]x3 and 1 other mod.
There are some Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [CrtD]x2 [Dmg] on the exchange for ~11mil at the moment. The overall stats are 178 dps and 60% crit severity. I bought my Phaser Beam Array Mk XII [CrtD]x3 for ~1.75mil each. End result being 182 dps, 60% crit damage -and- phaser proc. Even with a [Dmg] mod, the AP have less base damage than Mk XII purples. Even with the highest amount of [CrtD] mods they can get, they at best are equal with other crit damage potential weapons.
I suppose if they could get [CrtD]x3 or [CrtD]x2 [CrtH] on a Mk XII version, they would be the best for damage. However, I don't think that is the case at the moment... and if it were, they would be way too pricey for me.
People say you have to have the proper skills and techniques to use AP well, but all I see is a weapon that has a bonus to CritD but in the end isn't more CritD than other weapon options -and- has less base damage. Having the skills to make AP good would only make another energy type the same damage, if not better. Can anyone shed some light on the AP craze for me?
There are some Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [CrtD]x2 [Dmg] on the exchange for ~11mil at the moment. The overall stats are 178 dps and 60% crit severity. I bought my Phaser Beam Array Mk XII [CrtD]x3 for ~1.75mil each. End result being 182 dps, 60% crit damage -and- phaser proc. Even with a [Dmg] mod, the AP have less base damage than Mk XII purples. Even with the highest amount of [CrtD] mods they can get, they at best are equal with other crit damage potential weapons.
I suppose if they could get [CrtD]x3 or [CrtD]x2 [CrtH] on a Mk XII version, they would be the best for damage. However, I don't think that is the case at the moment... and if it were, they would be way too pricey for me.
People say you have to have the proper skills and techniques to use AP well, but all I see is a weapon that has a bonus to CritD but in the end isn't more CritD than other weapon options -and- has less base damage. Having the skills to make AP good would only make another energy type the same damage, if not better. Can anyone shed some light on the AP craze for me?
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I'll likely (eventually) upgrade to Phased Tetryon to get the proc bonuses as well.
Antiprotons shine through their crits, since they're made for only 1 proc. That proc is simply more damage. Think of them as using a standard-sized hammer on a nail, then someone hands you sledge hammer instead. It just gets the job done faster.
They USED to drop in elite STFs with more modifiers, such as the elusive [Acc]x3. I don't know if they still do, since I boycotted STFs after ~6months of playing.
Plus... they look REALLY cool when you use BO on a DBB, but that's just the vanity in me.
On the phased Tetryon, they only come in a XI so they are less effective at VA standing.
There is a post on STOwiki that talks about how each race has a weakness to certain weapon types. Back in the day the Borg weren't set up to do well against antiproton weapons and all end game content was Borg related. That is changing as is the availability of anitproton weapons.
With their percentage chance to do crits, combine that with other skills and officers and consoles that boost crit chance and damage you can do twice the damage twice as often which equals faster kills.
I use to have anitproton on all my ships but these days I have moved to all plasma on my cruiser, all phasers on my tac, and I think I am settling in on Tetryon for my Sci.
Now I don't play PVP at all and that is a whole different set of rules. Overall pound for pound you can get more damage out of an antiproton weapon, but it depends on what you want to do.
Hope this helps
Eisaak
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Tachyokinetic converter +0.76 Crit +7.6 Severity
Romluan Zero-Point Energy Conduit +1.8 Crit
Borg Assimilated Module +0.92 Crit +9.2 Severity
2X Romulan Crit Boffs that have + crit and +Severity.
Skills for energy weapons tier 1 and tier 5 are maxed
Skills for targeting is maxed
Fleet Patrol Escort - Ship from hell
4 Fleet Antiproton DHC's up front - 3 Turrets in the back.
Forget torps I just park and shoot. I let someone else take the first shot to get the agro and then I unload. I use a -threat console that has a shield heal proc
I run attack pattern omega 3 and the two TacTeam I's. The rest is CRI and CRII and CSVI and CSVII. I use the tac team doff that has +10 on attack patterns. I use two BFI doffs, and I use the exocomp as I have the red matter capacitor and I carry weapon batteries.
I carry a the borg engineer with EPtS I and EPtS II, The SCI boff is TSS I and Repulsors I (for the idiots in STFS) The universal ensign is a sci boff with Hazard I for plasma fires and a hull heal.
Have spiked as high as 25K damage within the span of a few seconds (Opening salvo). Can maintain 5K dps over the entire length of ISE from the first shot to 6 seconds after the loot bag drops. That includes all the time wasted floating around between the cubes and stuff.
Let the others land procs, I land straight up damage.....
Of course I'm comparing Mk XI to XII. Can't craft Mk XII Antiproton. The other methods of getting Mk XII ones also have the same modifier limitation. As for crit damage. How do they shine through their crits more than another weapon? The max Antiproton Beam CritD is 60%. The max on DHC for AP is 70%. You can get that same % on any other energy type -and- you can get that energy types proc. All I see is a hammer that says it excels in this one aspect, but in fact it is just on par with other hammers, but those other hammers are better at other things.
At best, a Mk XII Antiproton has the same dps as others, because it's bonus is only crit damage. If you had a Mk XII AP beam with CrtDx2 and a Dmg mod, it would have the same crit damage and ~3 dps higher, but no status proc. A weapon like that would be in the tens of millions I'm sure, because even the Mk XI is ~5x more than Mk XII that are better in -every- way. If AP [CrtD]x3 comes around, I'm all for it. Until then, it's primary feature doesn't make it stronger than others really.
That is how I got all my AP gear with Borg bonuses to boot! :cool:
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
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Yeah but that's predetermined items, not randomly generated. You still can't get higher Crit Damage on those than other weapons, even though AP's main job is Crit Damage. If your gear has the [Borg] then I'm assuming you mean you got it from the Reputation system or in S6 from Proto Salvages. Not what I meant.
My AP loadout is on a mothballed ship. (Yes, it's a fleet patrol escort, like one of the above posters). I prefer to use Polarized Disruptors, combined with regular Disruptors. Just find what you think is right for you.
With the Romulan rep system, Plasma is a great way to go if you're only doing PvE. PvP, no. Just no. (And no, I'm not an elitist. I'm just trying to provide some advice.)
If you use kinetic weapons a bunch, you may want to go Tetryon in order to strip those shields.
If you do a lot of team play, go Disruptors or Polarized Disruptors.
Energy draining build? Go Polarons.
Feeling lucky? Use Phasers.
Antiprotons are pretty pricey on the exchange, and the crafted ones aren't much to brag about. I CERTAINLY agree with that. Just go with the energy type that suits your build.
I was reading somewhere and I think I saw it in-game as well. They nerfed the borg bonuses so you are no longer getting the 1000 radiation burn you use to get with those weapons. I had them as well on all my ships and have switched to other weapons because I was no longer getting the extra bonuses on damage.
E
They never nerfed them, they just never worked 100% of the time because not all Borg mobs were flagged to take the extra damage from the Borg modifier. Instead of going back and trying to track down every mob type that it didn't work on, as well as having to remember to flag every single new borg the put in a mission, STF, adventure zone, or whatnot, they decided to make add the bonus to the reputation system.
The mobs that the [Borg] weapons worked on before, continue to work on now. It shows up in your combat log as 'Chaotic Particle Stream' doing exactly 1000 damage if we're talking about ship weapons.
As far as Antiprotons go, I never really thought they were strictly better than other weapon types. Their bonus is just easier for people to quantify, and gives them immediate, visible results, unlike trying to determine how much faster a tetryon proc or phaser proc actually helps you kill things. If it really is better, I think it would only really apply to tactical officers, who have it easier getting their crit hit rate up than science or engineers to make better use of the extra crit damage.
What if they had a 2.5% chance of bypassing shields?
Or
Had a Higher Critical Severity?
Or
Had a higher Critical Chance?
But what if all this stuff was not on their tooltip because Cryptic was disoganized when the game launched and they never got around to updating text errors. And then, what if all those posts exploring, describing and revealing what made Antiprotons the preferred end-game weapon, were buried because Cryptic for some dumb reason doesn't like to have posts over a month old bumped back to the top? And then they changed the forums completely and all of the info was buried deeper as "archived"?
I can answer that. What would happen is, in 2013 people would ask and not know what benefits Antiprotons have.
Some of the same people would also continue to use EPS Flow Regulators since Cryptic buried the changes to those as well.
There's a lot of good info about items and what they do lost. To the void.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
See, now I'm confused again. Are you saying it -does- do things that aren't described ingame? The only responses I've ever seen in regards to AP is the extra crit damage, which tbh is useless considering they can't get the same mods as other weapons, meaning AP is at best, same Crit Damage as other weapons can get. The way I see AP now is a -Locked In- [CrtD] mod and a -Locked In- [Dmg] or [Borg] mod, because of the methods of obtaining them. Apparently, they can't be obtained from the reputation system, so [Borg] is becoming more and more outdated? Fleet/Craft versions simply can't get more (Edited: "as much" out) CritD as other weapons, even with the 20% bonus to AP.
I also heard when AP was new, long ago, it was more like a Transphasic beam, like always having Directed Energy Modulation on, penetrating shields etc. If that were true, that would be nice. Just [CrtD] is not really worth it.
At present you can't get Mk XII AP apart from fleet stores which means your limited on amount of CRITD you can upscale.
With crafting you get MK XI not top end with other MK XII weapons available and mods again set.
I haven't done much PvP which is a different arena to PvE as someone did mention.
From a PVE viewpoint APs are outdated and left behind without MK XII VR with variable mods being available.
If you got some from when back when and got CRITDx3 (or at least Acc and CRITDx2) then you could be running a DHC x90% even other weapon types will be 80% so upscale effect is better than anything else in this regard without factoring in boffs, consoles and skills. If not then unless using the Temporal set with its AP weapon best look at other weapon types as said by Bumperthumper.
Personally I'm using Tetryon MK XII CRITx3 on my main having experimented with Disruptors and Polarised Disruptors.
If your looking for effects then the Lock box combination weapons are the best, and all types go upto MK XII.
If there aren't any MK XII phased teryons on exchange just get some keys and play the THOLIAN Lock Box lottery until you get the MK XII weapon with mods you want. Alternatively wait for the Tholian Reputation system and its REFRACTING TETRYONS whatever they do.
A car that sacrifices comfort for speed will obviously not appear "better" than one that doesn't if you apply conditions like "never drive above 60 MPH".
The comparison is +20% Crit Severity vs Disruptor Debuff vs Plasma Fire, etc. Your inability to get ahold of Mk XII Antiproton weapons is rather irrelevant to the comparison of energy types.
If you only ever have access to terrible pizza you won't be able to understand why it's so popular either.
BUT getting access to XII is pricey and Fleet only.
If you do a lot of PvE, there are many different way to do things which will be "cheaper" I was told (I can be TOTALLY wrong so correct me) that polaron energy drain on NPC is kinda moot (it is pretty purple) I personally using phaser right now for PvE because of the disable function. I will upgrade to Phased-Disruptors (disrupters cause a debuff on target to take more damage) when I can afford it
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If you're going for Crit Severity, properly modded mk XI purples will significantly outperform fleet XII APs.
5k DPS from an escort isn't something someone should be bragging about from some tweaked out AP build. I've got an eng cruiser that can burst 30k and sustain 9k, and an escort not using AP doing 12k and bursting for 50 in ISE. So those numbers are really just hurting AP's viability.
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I have all Tet beams on my cruisers. Including my pride and joy Jem Dread Carrier. My build is shield stripping anyway. Shield strip build and Tet weapons I can kill shields very fast even in a cruiser and its a great support weapon in team PvE play.
Spock's Brain.
Anti p is a bit Red for me
Now saying that.. I use spiral wave disruptors.
This may be me, but this is exactly why I prefer shield- or energy-draining weapons. I either have bad timing or just plain bad luck, but it seems almost every time I use a torpedo power my target regenerates just enough facing shield at just the right time to cause the stupid torpedo to plink against shields. I've seen and watched the combat log before to see a high-yield torpedo bonk against a freshly-regenerated shield facing, even when I've attempted to time the torpedo shot to coincide with depleted shield facing, and in the middle of a CRF volley nonetheless.
Except when I'm using transphasic torpedoes. Those hit hull every time.
Spock's Brain.
Or it's close enough, at any rate, and those 2.5% proc rates are terribly unreliable. I might consider switching if I ran Romulan boffs, maxed out energy weapon performance and picked up a tachyokinetic converter.
I used polarons, phased polarons and tetryons all before moving to fleet APs, because they were all cheaper. Phasers/disruptors are equally pricey as AP (the consoles, at any rate), and plasma is a very specific build.
Looks like the same base damage to me.
The availability of mods on them is intentional. They'll outperform all but the best mod combinations. Not offering those combinations, or not offering them in a way which can supply the entire playerbase, is one way to maintain some variety.
That you prefer a mod combination unavailable in AP flavor is your burden to bear.
You do realise that you can know purchase fleet AP with acc2+dmg2 modifiers...And yes they are good.