-The May content expansion has been said to have a huge amount of KDF only content and probably a good amount of episodes. Just wait for it.
According to DStahl, the May KDF content will be a new tutorial. Not really a huge amount of KDF only content.
-You don't have as much uniform selection because in the tv shows and movies KDF Klingons mostly dressed in the same 4-5 costumes. Blame ST canon for that not cryptic.
There's Section 31, all of the STO-only uniforms like Jupiter, Starfleet Academy, and all this other jibba jabba that they could do on the KDF side too since it's all just made up and not related to anything canon. But they don't.
I won't say "it's their own fault" when it comes to new ships, but part of the reason Cryptic hasn't released a lot of KDF ships is that no one was buying them. Part of the reason for THAT is that KDF free ships (and some C-store ships) are superior, and many regard their stuff as superior to the newest ships. I've only ever seen a single Marauder on KDF side, and never ever seen a Gorn Varanus. You could say the problem is that those ships suck, but given some of the behavior on the forums and some folks claiming to know what KDF players want, many KDF players only want ships that play like the ships they already have (lockbox ships aside).
I've seen quite a few Gorn Varanus. It's the only Science ship the KDF really get. If they had done a more even distribution and development of the faction along with a more even distribution and development of new ships, they'd have sold more KDF ships. This isn't the players' fault. This is Cryptic's fault. They ignored the second faction for ages. And then said "See, no one buys stuff from the KDF." Well duh.
The same will happen if they try to do anything Romulan. Their system for doing other factions is flawed and contributes to the poor results far more than anything the players are doing.
Again with that. No, KDF players don't come form another planet, they are not more mature or less mature, no more pro and no less pro. KDF players are nothing but nerdy geeks, like any other ST fan, that happen to like the stinky aliens. :P Thats all.
Calling people nerdy geeks probably isn't going to help this topic's discussion much.
That's treason against The Empire. You should face the wrath of the high council for speaking out against our established traditions. Have you no honor?
Dude quit whining about KDF ships seriously. I play both factions and i can assure you anything KDF far exceeds federation for quality. Perfect example would be the kdf command cruiser vrs the odesy, command cruisers wins hands down. And why are you whining about feds getting a andorain? As one of the SUCKERS who bought this piece of junk i can assure you it was just another thing for us to waste money on the ship absolutely SUCKS it is so paper thin you cant live through more than 3 seconds of pvp, the consoles are entirely useless, and despite 5 fore weapons the thing has less dps than the fleet patrol, would you rather then sell you junk kdf ships? The whole argument about no new kdf ships is simple..YOU DONT NEED ANY. Go into a pvp random pug arena 99.9% of the time the kdf win hands down without competition. Why BECAUSE KDF SHIPS AND GEAR IS FAR FAR BETTER THN FED. So quit crying about it. Seriously get a fleet ship and go kill every andorain escort u see(should only take 1 of ur 4 disruptor dhc to do the job) and feel better knowing your NOT a sucker who just bought THE WORST ship cryptic has ever released.
LOL... Let me start with have you even looked at the ships most players from KDF side fly these days ... LOL most are from lock boxes ... And if you are flying a new Andorion ship that has 5 tac consoles and 5 fore weapons and you cant get enough DPS out of that then you need to learn how to build better... As for its survivability well that depends on the captain piloting it ...Ive seen some go down real fast and I have seen a few that do real well with them...Seen somebody else say that klingons dont get new ships because we dont buy them ... Well to answer that most klingons look for Tac ships small and maneuverable ... But Cryptic only wants to give us freakin big TRIBBLE boats to fly around and if they would have content as good as feds do more people would want to play as a klink which would mean more people wanting to buy klingon stuff.... And last but not least YES WE DO NEED NEW SHIPS right now the feds have 3 escorts with 5 tac consoles one of which has 5 front weapons ... Klingons dont even have 1 escort or raider with 5 tac consoles let alone 5 front weapon slots
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Target locked Captain....Alpha loaded....5,4,3,2,1.... Target dead captain, locking on next target
When I want to play elegant ships with toys and nuance I load a Federation character. When I want to be efficient, nimble, and flat-out violent, I load Klingon. Story wise neither side really matters, as the Federation missions certainly aren't very Federation-y and the Klingons as presented here are little more than space orks throwing a whiney temper tantrum, and neither one is going to change. The idea of loyalty to either side, or attempting to invest any sort of meaning into any of this nonsense, simply doesn't matter to me.
Less species in number, but we have the most important one that is far superior to all others, Ferasans. I always wear Omega/KHG/Korath and have no need for more outfits, but I'd get it if people did.
Why play KDF? Because all of the stuff that Fed has over KDF (which are a lot) are things that I absolutly do not care about at all. Leveling from 1-20 isn't fun. STO is endgame, period. At level 50, KDF has everything that I, personally, want.
I would appreciate many things to be added due to the principle of the matter, but I'd still play KDF like it is without switching to Fed if nothing was ever added to the KDF again. I mostly play STO for the community anyway.
__________________________________ CO noob and STO veteran.
I'm sorry but I have to completely disagree that the KDF players are more mature. The only onther time I've EVER seen so much whining about a video game was the ending for mass effect 3.
You dont read the fed sections of the forum? More whine there over everything from uniforms not being canon to cruisers suck to why cant I battle cloak, the list of fed whine has been growing since before game launch.
-You're not getting more ships because they don't sell well on KDF side. If people were so interested in KDF ships they would sell and Cryptic would be making more. They don't so end of story. Do you expect them to put so much time, effort and money into something that will not make them any return?
-Playable Romulan faction hasn't even really been confirmed. They also said it's not coming in May. May is a content expansion.
-The May content expansion has been said to have a huge amount of KDF only content and probably a good amount of episodes. Just wait for it.
-You don't have as much uniform selection because in the tv shows and movies KDF Klingons mostly dressed in the same 4-5 costumes. Blame ST canon for that not cryptic.
-How is everything more expensive for Klingons? If you mean the exchange then that's player driven and has nothing to do with Cryptic.
-Some of the consoles you get from Fed side are amazing. Defense point console is probably better than anything you get from the Klingon side for the feds.
-Less species? Again blame ST canon. Federation had open arms for anyone to join. KDF only have those they conquered and they can only conquer so much.
-Since about a year ago, the episodes are open to both sides. Why would they make KDF only episodes when they can just bring out content both sides can enjoy?
Don't get me wrong, I want KDF content as much as the other guy. And even the Execs at Cryptic stated they wanted to see more for the KDFs, but people need to learn patience and wait and see what they have in store for May.
that the most stupid thing ive heard!
the reason why ships dont sell as well on KDF is players are forced to play feds thre is no option to pick kdf why spend all that time and money playing fed only to move to kdf.
ITS CRYPTICS fault they shot them selfs in the foot byb forcing players to play as feds there the reason why its BANG FOR BUCK. they have no right to use that as an excuse.
thats not to mention the fact the feds ahve around 100 ships and kdf got half that how can we buy TRIBBLE if they dont sell it.
its cryptics bussiness model its their fault they dont have the right to use it as an excuse. STO is the only game ive ever played where the devs actualy pick one faction other another and just ignore apart of the game it make no frikkin sense.
dont kiss their bum and except that oh its more bang for buck for fed so we only make fed stuff.
funny, I interperate his statement to state that in HIS opinion not only does he percieve that the bulk of federation faction player base are not only arrogant and concieted aren't all that good at playing the game.
How is that hipocracy?
Or.... are you just trolling?
In referring to a whole group of people to being jackasses and calling the majority of them bad players, he is clearly acting very, very arrogant. Since he complains about "Feds" as being arrogant, while he is doing the exact same thing, in the very same sentence, he is clearly being hypocritical.
Perhaps it would be better for him to quit playing on KDF and join "his people" on the blue side, who, if he is being correct about them being arrogant, might have a lot in common with him.
Spend 15 minutes on ESD, then spend 15 minutes on Qo'nos and the more mature demographic will become plainly obvious...
You've also confused the word "whining" with "reasonable consumer complaints"... When Forbes, Fox News, ABC, MSNBC, USA Today, and BBC News all cover overwhelming consumer backlash over a company's misrepresented product, the company is at fault and expected to make some sort of ammends... However, when those consumers are mostly in the 18-25yr demographic and the product is a video game, somehow it becomes "whining"... Cool combination of logical fallacies, bro...
Ahh, but STO DOES have a Klingon faction so really bottom line is that it isn't a misrepresented product, it just isn't as developed as you'd like. You can't compare a video game (especially an MMO) to another product, and for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is that an MMO's main design attribute is that it's development is very much fluid and can be easily changed and revolves around the player and stats. If the consumer demand isn't there and represented in cold hard sales numbers then it won't get developed, it simply doesn't make good business sense.
This has and will probably continue to be the case with the KDF faction. It has been stated several times by the development staff that they have lost money on developing KDF content. People tend to forget or just don't realize that there is cost in developing and implementing virtual items.
UGC content may not be considered content by most players, but the simple fact is in many ways it is more content then the official stuff produced by cryptic. Yes, there are some foundry missions that are simply terrible, but or every bad one there is another one or more that is really fantastic to play and the author not only doesn't see a dime from it (other than a possible dil tip), but they also aren't restricted by any official storyline development.
Sure the KDF doesn't start from lvl 1, but really if you think about it why does it need to? You've played the game long enough to unlock the KDF so why do you really need all that beginner "tutorial style" lead up to the good stuff?
Please believe me I'm not saying there hasn't been wrong doing on the part of Cryptic and the way they've handled the KDF and the KDF player community, but when a very small number of people continue to refuse to accept that in a fluid development structure like an MMO things are going to change and sometimes that change goes against something said prior. Therefore eventually it does turn from "reasonable consumer complaints" to simple whining.
Sure the KDF doesn't start from lvl 1, but really if you think about it why does it need to? You've played the game long enough to unlock the KDF so why do you really need all that beginner "tutorial style" lead up to the good stuff?
No, most of us don't.
BUT even the people at Cryptic have said that the absence of one has quite possibly stifled any chance the faction has to attract players.
Couple that with the fact that there are a number of people who will most likely stay with the first faction they play because they become emotionally attached to it and you end up with...the current situation.
So it's not what existing players need, it's what the faction needs to get a fighting chance to grow.
Do we need a history lesson AGAIN on how KDF players have had to adapt and overcome several rounds of the factions ships getting nerfed because UFP players were catching it in the short in PvP instead of learning how to PvP?
After all, if PvP were strait forward then there likely wouldn't have been such a screaming need for a PvP clinic to teach players.. mostly fed players.. how to go toe to toe with KDF players and win.. not to mention the fed players that did learn PvP early on and have dominated blue on blue PvP. Classes on skill, weapon and console synergies so player learn to put together better build in both thier character, and thier ships.
Noth'n wrong with the KDF faction that a little content wouldn't fix..
Speaking of content....
Daniel Stahl has CONFIRMED that the new tutorial is coming... from previous information we all ready know the tutorial is for new level 1 players. WHY bother to put a starting player KDF tutorial if you NOT going to have the low level mission content? It stands to reason that we are going to see level 1-20 mission content. They don't even need to make ships for ranks 1-20 because they're all ready there, left over from game launch!
What is a question is "Are we going to get anything more for the faction other then the Turoial, and mission content from 1-20?". In theory we have been led to belive there will be more then just that. We players just don't know what it is yet...
It could be that "Under the Raptors wings could be the name for the KSF level 1-20 story arc?!? Now Cryptic might even sweeten the pot my creating a account wide unlock for compleating the story arc. Certainly no reason why they could not. Start knocking down the stupid player created wall between the factions. No one is locked then into playing either FED or KDF, and then would even get rewarded for playing both. All ready its been discovered that its just a tad easier to grinding dilithium KDF side (still a dayly limit capping refining but still..)
What I've stated above is just a possibility.. but I also recall pod casts over the last 3 years where the concept of account wide rewards for content was discussed with dev team members. So its not entirly out of line. Federations characters have have the whole swords arc in Romulan space, why not have the KDF have its romulan arc? The KDF and the Romulans have been going nose to nose far longer then the Federation and the RSE after all. It would also stand right in line with how PWE chooses to do things in a number of thier titles. Something that does just happen to get overlooked by the majority around here from time to time.
We KDF have been pretty clearly told though to expect nothing before May. Seeing that right here and now we have 60 plus days untill we actually have something in hand, I'm going to go figure out the best way to splash Kumari's with a Fleet Tor'Khat Battlecruiser flown by science captain..
Fraghul you're an idiot you know that? I am not a Fed in anyway shape or form but from your post earlier you suggested everyone in this game was? It was correct that it was my opinion due to dealing with fed players and having bad experiences dealing with them. You cannot change that but you are very ignorant of all the facts and influences in game.
Now the customer has a damn right to complain if they feel cheated. Everyone whines in daily life and anyone who thinks that doesn't happen doesn't get out much. My statement was that I don't get on with a playerbase, some of whom happen to think this is a one faction game. In some ways it feels like that but I choose to remain fiercely independent and stick to one faction. That is being stubborn and if I am honest there is nothing wrong with that providing it doesn't do people harm.
You called me hypothetical but actually in truth the majority of real KDF players are really good, and some of the best in game. Arrogant? Yeah it was a bit, but that is how I honestly feel, I really dislike Fed players. Sorry for having a conflicting point of view but that is how things go.
My god on fire, this thread got depressing in a hurry.
A few points before I bail out of the conversation:
Yes, we need level 1-20 content, IF ONLY to draw new players (and I mean brand-new just-downloaded-STO) to sign on with the Empire. And I don't know about the rest of you but I personally enjoy the challenge - even if it's only a perceived challenge - of being a low-level player in a low-level ship. Its fun to take on a Negh'var in a 125-year-old Miranda-class. I wish I could do that with a Klingon in a stock B'rel.
The majority of KDF players are in this game because the genuinely love the game, love Star Trek, and love the Empire. The same goes for the majority of Fed players, except for "Empire" read "Federation." There are a handful of immature idiots on both sides. The only difference is on the Klingon side the audience is smaller, so the zone-chat trolls stick around ESD.
Skill trumps builds, and builds trump base ship stats. A fifth tac console doesn't help a crappy player. I've fried plenty of fleet Defiants and Jem bugs in inferior ships, and I consider myself to be a fairly average PvPer. Yes it would be nice if we had a Raptor that roughly matched the Fleet Defiant. But the Feds would cheerfuly trade [Special Requisition Pack - Eternal Soul] for a fleet Vor'cha if it weren't bound to character. You can either a whiner or winner. Pick one.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I love being a KDF. Their Battlecruisers are really fun. Since they can equip cannons where most Feds can't. So I can give something a really good pounding if you face the wrong side of my ship. I love their ground fighting style. I play a more in your face, your getting killed type attitude. As I play them in space or ground, I try to assume the role of a KDF. So my play style matches it. The opponent is going to get a beating. Even my Klingon male captain has the Bath'leth to add more to the fun. I'm not afraid to bring it out and start hacking into my opponent. Even the mighty Borg is no match to the blade.
Granted the story line and missions to go with them sucks for most part. The other parts helps on that end as the fun factor is there. I try to play as much on my KDF as I do my Fed. And at times I play KDF even more than the Fed.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
My god on fire, this thread got depressing in a hurry.
A few points before I bail out of the conversation:
Yes, we need level 1-20 content, IF ONLY to draw new players (and I mean brand-new just-downloaded-STO) to sign on with the Empire. And I don't know about the rest of you but I personally enjoy the challenge - even if it's only a perceived challenge - of being a low-level player in a low-level ship. Its fun to take on a Negh'var in a 125-year-old Miranda-class. I wish I could do that with a Klingon in a stock B'rel. I found that always pretty stupid. Flying a miranda and being able to destroy a Negh'va, i never liked that. It made the game fell like an brainless arcade shooter, not like a "serious" Star Trek game.
The majority of KDF players are in this game because the genuinely love the game, love Star Trek, and love the Empire. The same goes for the majority of Fed players, except for "Empire" read "Federation." There are a handful of immature idiots on both sides. The only difference is on the Klingon side the audience is smaller, so the zone-chat trolls stick around ESD. To be honest, playing my KDF Character feels like treachery most of the time. That's nothing against you, i never liked to play on the "Bad guys" side, i see that all day long anyway.
Skill trumps builds, and builds trump base ship stats. A fifth tac console doesn't help a crappy player. I've fried plenty of fleet Defiants and Jem bugs in inferior ships, and I consider myself to be a fairly average PvPer. Yes it would be nice if we had a Raptor that roughly matched the Fleet Defiant. But the Feds would cheerfuly trade [Special Requisition Pack - Eternal Soul] for a fleet Vor'cha if it weren't bound to character. You can either a whiner or winner. Pick one. Compared to federation ships i think Cryptic made Klingon cruisers much better than Starfleets and Starfleets escorts are better than KDF escorts IMO.
In my opinion, it should be exactly the other way round, i just hate how lame Cryptic made Federation cruisers. They should be powerhouses, but they are just impotent bricks.
I always found it much easier to do PvP or PvE in a klingon ship, don't ask me why, things just go easier in my opinion.
Especially when it comes to ships, i would love to play my KDF character much more, but believe it or not, that RED UI get me some serious headarche.
ten chars 101010101010
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
You dont read the fed sections of the forum? More whine there over everything from uniforms not being canon to cruisers suck to why cant I battle cloak, the list of fed whine has been growing since before game launch.
Every faction whines, no one has a corner on it.
Haha, I love reading threads whining about the battlecloak. It's funny to read their exaggerations of how 'OP' the battlecloak is. It's a complaint as old as the game, and despite the fact that BoPs are deliberately underpowered to compensate for the 'OP' complaints, they STILL whine.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Ahh, but STO DOES have a Klingon faction so really bottom line is that it isn't a misrepresented product, it just isn't as developed as you'd like. You can't compare a video game (especially an MMO) to another product, and for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is that an MMO's main design attribute is that it's development is very much fluid and can be easily changed and revolves around the player and stats. If the consumer demand isn't there and represented in cold hard sales numbers then it won't get developed, it simply doesn't make good business sense.
This has and will probably continue to be the case with the KDF faction. It has been stated several times by the development staff that they have lost money on developing KDF content. People tend to forget or just don't realize that there is cost in developing and implementing virtual items.
UGC content may not be considered content by most players, but the simple fact is in many ways it is more content then the official stuff produced by cryptic. Yes, there are some foundry missions that are simply terrible, but or every bad one there is another one or more that is really fantastic to play and the author not only doesn't see a dime from it (other than a possible dil tip), but they also aren't restricted by any official storyline development.
Sure the KDF doesn't start from lvl 1, but really if you think about it why does it need to? You've played the game long enough to unlock the KDF so why do you really need all that beginner "tutorial style" lead up to the good stuff?
Please believe me I'm not saying there hasn't been wrong doing on the part of Cryptic and the way they've handled the KDF and the KDF player community, but when a very small number of people continue to refuse to accept that in a fluid development structure like an MMO things are going to change and sometimes that change goes against something said prior. Therefore eventually it does turn from "reasonable consumer complaints" to simple whining.
If the KDF faction has less playerbase, it's pretty much Cryptic's fault. They've mismanaged the faction from day one, because they were obviously not prepared to either fully develop the faction, or keep it as a mini-faction for endgame. The faction's been in limbo ever since. Even hardcore Klingon enthusiasts have limits to their patience, and Cryptic's been neglecting the faction for 3 years. Then there's the issue with the red UI, that drives more people away because it's grating on the eyes (and I can see how that would be the case, though it doesn't affect me). Cryptic never really gave the faction a fair chance and a truly solid footing. KDF players have had to adapt in response to Cryptic's neglect of the faction, and now most KDF players don't trust Cryptic's management any farther than they can spit them. . .and for good reason.
The only thing I've specifically hear them imply 'they lost money' on was the Bortas'qu, and we diligent KDF forum-goers have thoroughly explained WHY that is (short answer: it's a giant, useless space whale that doesn't really utilize its gimmicks that well, and only appeals to a very small minority of KDF players). It's Cryptic's own fault if they don't learn from past mistakes.
The reason why we want KDF to start from level 1 is to get a first crack at new players. That's THE prime reason why we've always wanted that. We want both factions to have an equal chance of drawing new players. As it stands: Players start Federation, spend 20-25 levels hearing about how the KDF are the stereotypical 'bad guys', and THEN get the option to play a KDF. This pretty much results in less players choosing KDF, because they've been sorta biased against them, or don't want to play both factions at once. In the end, it's all about fairness.
Yes, we understand that MMOs are in a constant state of development. However, players tend to lose patience when their favorite faction remains incomplete after 3 years of existence, and when the exclusives of said faction get sold off to the 'favored' faction. We also get ticked off when members of said 'favored faction' start 'suggesting' that ship traits/styles that are more KDF-oriented be added to their ships.
Remember when Federation players didn't have universal boffslot ship options? Remember when they didn't have carriers? Remember when they didn't have access to good KDF consoles? Remember when they didn't have these things, and STILL managed to win a fair amount in PvP? All these changes have conspired to make the KDF the maligned minority faction in-game, because there's less and less reason to play KDF because all the cool **** is given to the Federation whiners.
So yeah, pardon us if we're a tad bitter and prone to 'whining'. It's about all we can do, in the face of these injustices.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
"Evil will triumph because good is dumb" Dark Helmet
Let's face it, the Klingon Empire is a lawful evil empire, nothing wrong with that. It's fun to be the bad guy sometimes, other games are proof of this. The Horde in WoW, the Asmodians in ****, City of Villains, the Zerg and some of the Terrans in Starcraft and many more examples. There are even players in this game who want a playable Borg faction, although technically the Borg are chaotically good.
I personally don't care if they add anything to our group, nothing wrong with being focused and compact, just fix the bugs.
I still play Klingon because I am a stubborn old cuss...and because in prior Star Trek Games, namely Starfleet Command, I have been part of large Klingon fleets which, although outnumbered and outgunned, used the Federation as a doormat most of the time.
Besides -- I enjoy playing the Underdogs, and in this game, the Klingon faction is definitely the underdog -- there is a certain satisfaction and challenge in playing the underdog faction in a game like this, and succeeding at it as well as or better than the favored faction. I get a perverse delight in doing more with less, knowing that skill and knowledge of my ship's capabilities is what levels the playing field.
The Klingon faction in STO is the faction for those players who enjoy a challenge, and who in general tend to be more knowledgeable and skilled in piloting their vessels than their Federation counterparts. Federation players have a wide variety of ship types, many with special powers not available to the Klingon faction, that provides them with an edge in the game...Klingon players make up the difference by knowing their ships inside and out, and by understanding better the dynamics of how skills and equipment interact with each other...
Another reason I play Klingon is that the philosophy of the culture -- as defined by The New Generation and DS9 -- appeals to me. The idea of independent action built on a warrior philosophy foundation, and not words, defining you as a person -- and the idea of cutting to the chase instead of hiding behind artificial (and almost always bent or outright broken) rules such as the Prime Directive resonates with me. Finally...the Federation is pretty much a humans-only club, despite their words to the contrary. In contrast, the Klingon Empire, although violent and combative, provides equal opportunity to all of its member races if they can prove themselves as embracing the Klingon way.
I find it ironic that many Federation players would -- if they could -- embrace the Terran Empire of the Mirror Universe, which in many ways has some aspects of the Klingon Empire, but without the core warrior values which drive the Klingon culture. That also says something about the appeal of the Klingon Empire...but for these types of players, what they really want is the freedom to be outright conquerors using Federation starships...with no prime directive or other minor annoyances getting in the way...that has nothing to do with Klingon cultural imperatives or philosophy...although you will find some Federation players who think so.
It's time for me to share why am I still playing Klingon.
At first. I'm star trek fan and sto brings to me little bit about this univers.
Second. I really liked DS9. It helped me to learn about Klingons. Worf is a ... Anyway! But Grilka and Martok. Oh my god...
Third. I like the way of kligon life. Duty, honor and Glory!
Fourth. When I started to run STF I was impressed about KDF players skill. More mature, more everything.
You know. As a fed captain, I tried running Terradome many times. I failed many times.
I ran terradome with klingons friends only one time and we win. KDF is better.
Now it's my time whining and crying. Yes I want new ship, new mission, new episode, new uniform. Because I want cryptic treat me equal with fed.
What is a question is "Are we going to get anything more for the faction other then the Turoial, and mission content from 1-20?". In theory we have been led to belive there will be more then just that. We players just don't know what it is yet...
Nobody has been led to believe anything of the sort. There is no theory, no belief. We have been explicitly told that its a tutorial and only a tutorial as far as KDF specific content goes
Ahh, but STO DOES have a Klingon faction so really bottom line is that it isn't a misrepresented product, it just isn't as developed as you'd like
9 missions and a handful of ships. after 3 years of development, its also gatelocked behind another faction so you can't even play it when you sign up. sounds like a misrepresented product to me
It has been stated several times by the development staff that they have lost money on developing KDF content
1. No it hasn't
2. What content would that be exactly?
UGC content may not be considered content by most players, but the simple fact is in many ways it is more content then the official stuff produced by cryptic
Its not content. Don't make excuses.
Sure the KDF doesn't start from lvl 1, but really if you think about it why does it need to?
Is this a serious question? Lets see -- so people will play it. Thats a good start
You've played the game long enough to unlock the KDF so why do you really need all that beginner "tutorial style" lead up to the good stuff?
And therein lies the question - knowing this why exactly are they developing a KDF tutorial at all?. and its not 'tutorial style stuff' its half the games worth of character building
BUT even the people at Cryptic have said that the absence of one has quite possibly stifled any chance the faction has to attract players.
Whoever said that isn't all that bright. By the time you start a KDF character you have been locked out of it till well after you have completed the fed tutorial and played through many missions. So you already know how to play the game.
Daniel Stahl has CONFIRMED that the new tutorial is coming... from previous information we all ready know the tutorial is for new level 1 players.
There are no level 1 KDF players and won't be for the forseeable future. This is a fact
WHY bother to put a starting player KDF tutorial if you NOT going to have the low level mission content?
Because people, especially in management, do stupid things
It stands to reason that we are going to see level 1-20 mission content
No it doesn't. Especially considering we've been explicitly told the opposite is true for the expansion. Its the tutorial and only the tutorial
It could be that "Under the Raptors wings could be the name for the KSF level 1-20 story arc?!?
Are you serious? Are you really trying to tell people that something that uses a romulan phrase, has a romulan symbol and is in romulan colors in the ad is a reference to a KDF only story arc? That makes zero sense. None whatsoever
What I've stated above is just a possibility..
No it isn't
Federations characters have have the whole swords arc in Romulan space, why not have the KDF have its romulan arc?
Because nobody would play it and because it would make no sense. Are you forgetting how small the KDF playerbase supposedly is or something?
We KDF have been pretty clearly told though to expect nothing before May
And we have been told not to expect any content other than the tutorial in may too
I find it ironic that many Federation players would -- if they could -- embrace the Terran Empire of the Mirror Universe, which in many ways has some aspects of the Klingon Empire, but without the core warrior values which drive the Klingon culture. That also says something about the appeal of the Klingon Empire...but for these types of players, what they really want is the freedom to be outright conquerors using Federation starships...with no prime directive or other minor annoyances getting in the way...that has nothing to do with Klingon cultural imperatives or philosophy...although you will find some Federation players who think so.
I few Fed fleets call them selves TE and eagerly await the TE skins of ships.
Now why i play KDF: Easy dil grind through Empire defense, Orion girls, D7/K'Tinga, Orion Girls, the Voquv carriers, Orion Girls, Neghvar, Orion Girls, Slaver fighters, Orion Girls, Vorcha, Orion Girls, The new Battle Cruiser, Orion Girls, and Because they Klingons.
Now the problems with KDF is the Fed play requirement. get rid of that and there would be a boost on the KDF side. and you can have the KDF Gorn war and some House on House battles for 1-20 missions. And for more ships the Qurel class, the Kvort, and any fan made are options.
All this mewling about faction balance sounds like a Deferi diplomatic convention.
A warrior fights all the harder and earns more valor, the more adverse the combat! I don't need shiny new toys; my trusty rustbucket of a ship can still out-perform the newest Starfleet gizmo!
Some glory in their birth, some in their skill,
Some in their wealth, some in their body's force,
Some in their garments though new-fangled ill;
Some in their hawks and hounds, some in their horse;
And every humour hath his adjunct pleasure,
Wherein it finds a joy above the rest:
But these particulars are not my measure,
All these I better in one general best.
Honor is better than high birth to me,
Richer than wealth, prouder than garments' cost,
Of more delight than hawks and horses be;
And having it, of all men's pride I boast:
Wretched in this alone, that thou mayst take
All this away, and me most wretched make.
Of course, this reads better in the original Klingon...
Well I'm not a stinky Klingon! I'm KDF! There are more then just Klingon here you know.
That aside, I still play the KDF because I like my Gorn, because disintigrating someone with a bite is hilarious.
I like my Varanus, it's one of the more practical looking ships I have seen in the whole game.
I uhh... well... no... that's all I really like about KDF. The rest of it is kind of meh or bleh, but I don't think those details are necessary for here.
To summarize, I play KDF for 1 species and 1 ship.
1. The red UI. 2. Birds of Prey. 3. The Bortasqu' Battlecruiser. 4. I like the challenge of playing the underdog faction 5. For some reason, I get more of a 'spacefaring' feeling on the deck on Klingon ships then on Federation ships. 6. The Nausicaan designs. 7. The maturity of the playerbase. (Yes, I know that KDF players are not more mature, but since the numbers are lower - the number of immature trolls is low as a consequence. The fact that the KDF players have to rely on their skills and knowledge to counter the new Fed. toys also goes in this direction. Frankly, I have seen only one idiotic debate on Qo'noS so far, while whenever I log into ESD there seems to be one.) 8. To support balance in STO. 9. The artwork. (Cryptic may add KDF stuff only once in a while, but you must agree that when they do, it usually looks epic & awesome!) 10. The KDF has more feel of belonging in Star Trek than the Federation atm.
Comments
According to DStahl, the May KDF content will be a new tutorial. Not really a huge amount of KDF only content.
There's Section 31, all of the STO-only uniforms like Jupiter, Starfleet Academy, and all this other jibba jabba that they could do on the KDF side too since it's all just made up and not related to anything canon. But they don't.
I've seen quite a few Gorn Varanus. It's the only Science ship the KDF really get. If they had done a more even distribution and development of the faction along with a more even distribution and development of new ships, they'd have sold more KDF ships. This isn't the players' fault. This is Cryptic's fault. They ignored the second faction for ages. And then said "See, no one buys stuff from the KDF." Well duh.
The same will happen if they try to do anything Romulan. Their system for doing other factions is flawed and contributes to the poor results far more than anything the players are doing.
Calling people nerdy geeks probably isn't going to help this topic's discussion much.
What KDF "gear" is far better than fed gear?
Disruptors? Honor Guard set?
That's treason against The Empire. You should face the wrath of the high council for speaking out against our established traditions. Have you no honor?
I love KDF!
Love the ships.. maneuverable, fast, cannons on everything, and they look great.
Once I leveled up in Feds and got the Galaxy, I was happy, as I love TNG, and then I was over being a Fed lol
And I guess because I have a money pit.. starbase to take care of.
R.I.P
Why play KDF? Because all of the stuff that Fed has over KDF (which are a lot) are things that I absolutly do not care about at all. Leveling from 1-20 isn't fun. STO is endgame, period. At level 50, KDF has everything that I, personally, want.
I would appreciate many things to be added due to the principle of the matter, but I'd still play KDF like it is without switching to Fed if nothing was ever added to the KDF again. I mostly play STO for the community anyway.
CO noob and STO veteran.
You dont read the fed sections of the forum? More whine there over everything from uniforms not being canon to cruisers suck to why cant I battle cloak, the list of fed whine has been growing since before game launch.
Every faction whines, no one has a corner on it.
R.I.P
that the most stupid thing ive heard!
the reason why ships dont sell as well on KDF is players are forced to play feds thre is no option to pick kdf why spend all that time and money playing fed only to move to kdf.
ITS CRYPTICS fault they shot them selfs in the foot byb forcing players to play as feds there the reason why its BANG FOR BUCK. they have no right to use that as an excuse.
thats not to mention the fact the feds ahve around 100 ships and kdf got half that how can we buy TRIBBLE if they dont sell it.
its cryptics bussiness model its their fault they dont have the right to use it as an excuse. STO is the only game ive ever played where the devs actualy pick one faction other another and just ignore apart of the game it make no frikkin sense.
dont kiss their bum and except that oh its more bang for buck for fed so we only make fed stuff.
In referring to a whole group of people to being jackasses and calling the majority of them bad players, he is clearly acting very, very arrogant. Since he complains about "Feds" as being arrogant, while he is doing the exact same thing, in the very same sentence, he is clearly being hypocritical.
Perhaps it would be better for him to quit playing on KDF and join "his people" on the blue side, who, if he is being correct about them being arrogant, might have a lot in common with him.
Ahh, but STO DOES have a Klingon faction so really bottom line is that it isn't a misrepresented product, it just isn't as developed as you'd like. You can't compare a video game (especially an MMO) to another product, and for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is that an MMO's main design attribute is that it's development is very much fluid and can be easily changed and revolves around the player and stats. If the consumer demand isn't there and represented in cold hard sales numbers then it won't get developed, it simply doesn't make good business sense.
This has and will probably continue to be the case with the KDF faction. It has been stated several times by the development staff that they have lost money on developing KDF content. People tend to forget or just don't realize that there is cost in developing and implementing virtual items.
UGC content may not be considered content by most players, but the simple fact is in many ways it is more content then the official stuff produced by cryptic. Yes, there are some foundry missions that are simply terrible, but or every bad one there is another one or more that is really fantastic to play and the author not only doesn't see a dime from it (other than a possible dil tip), but they also aren't restricted by any official storyline development.
Sure the KDF doesn't start from lvl 1, but really if you think about it why does it need to? You've played the game long enough to unlock the KDF so why do you really need all that beginner "tutorial style" lead up to the good stuff?
Please believe me I'm not saying there hasn't been wrong doing on the part of Cryptic and the way they've handled the KDF and the KDF player community, but when a very small number of people continue to refuse to accept that in a fluid development structure like an MMO things are going to change and sometimes that change goes against something said prior. Therefore eventually it does turn from "reasonable consumer complaints" to simple whining.
No, most of us don't.
BUT even the people at Cryptic have said that the absence of one has quite possibly stifled any chance the faction has to attract players.
Couple that with the fact that there are a number of people who will most likely stay with the first faction they play because they become emotionally attached to it and you end up with...the current situation.
So it's not what existing players need, it's what the faction needs to get a fighting chance to grow.
After all, if PvP were strait forward then there likely wouldn't have been such a screaming need for a PvP clinic to teach players.. mostly fed players.. how to go toe to toe with KDF players and win.. not to mention the fed players that did learn PvP early on and have dominated blue on blue PvP. Classes on skill, weapon and console synergies so player learn to put together better build in both thier character, and thier ships.
Noth'n wrong with the KDF faction that a little content wouldn't fix..
Speaking of content....
Daniel Stahl has CONFIRMED that the new tutorial is coming... from previous information we all ready know the tutorial is for new level 1 players. WHY bother to put a starting player KDF tutorial if you NOT going to have the low level mission content? It stands to reason that we are going to see level 1-20 mission content. They don't even need to make ships for ranks 1-20 because they're all ready there, left over from game launch!
What is a question is "Are we going to get anything more for the faction other then the Turoial, and mission content from 1-20?". In theory we have been led to belive there will be more then just that. We players just don't know what it is yet...
It could be that "Under the Raptors wings could be the name for the KSF level 1-20 story arc?!? Now Cryptic might even sweeten the pot my creating a account wide unlock for compleating the story arc. Certainly no reason why they could not. Start knocking down the stupid player created wall between the factions. No one is locked then into playing either FED or KDF, and then would even get rewarded for playing both. All ready its been discovered that its just a tad easier to grinding dilithium KDF side (still a dayly limit capping refining but still..)
What I've stated above is just a possibility.. but I also recall pod casts over the last 3 years where the concept of account wide rewards for content was discussed with dev team members. So its not entirly out of line. Federations characters have have the whole swords arc in Romulan space, why not have the KDF have its romulan arc? The KDF and the Romulans have been going nose to nose far longer then the Federation and the RSE after all. It would also stand right in line with how PWE chooses to do things in a number of thier titles. Something that does just happen to get overlooked by the majority around here from time to time.
We KDF have been pretty clearly told though to expect nothing before May. Seeing that right here and now we have 60 plus days untill we actually have something in hand, I'm going to go figure out the best way to splash Kumari's with a Fleet Tor'Khat Battlecruiser flown by science captain..
See ya'll in game.
Now the customer has a damn right to complain if they feel cheated. Everyone whines in daily life and anyone who thinks that doesn't happen doesn't get out much. My statement was that I don't get on with a playerbase, some of whom happen to think this is a one faction game. In some ways it feels like that but I choose to remain fiercely independent and stick to one faction. That is being stubborn and if I am honest there is nothing wrong with that providing it doesn't do people harm.
You called me hypothetical but actually in truth the majority of real KDF players are really good, and some of the best in game. Arrogant? Yeah it was a bit, but that is how I honestly feel, I really dislike Fed players. Sorry for having a conflicting point of view but that is how things go.
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
A few points before I bail out of the conversation:
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I love being a KDF. Their Battlecruisers are really fun. Since they can equip cannons where most Feds can't. So I can give something a really good pounding if you face the wrong side of my ship. I love their ground fighting style. I play a more in your face, your getting killed type attitude. As I play them in space or ground, I try to assume the role of a KDF. So my play style matches it. The opponent is going to get a beating. Even my Klingon male captain has the Bath'leth to add more to the fun. I'm not afraid to bring it out and start hacking into my opponent. Even the mighty Borg is no match to the blade.
Granted the story line and missions to go with them sucks for most part. The other parts helps on that end as the fun factor is there. I try to play as much on my KDF as I do my Fed. And at times I play KDF even more than the Fed.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
We are Klingons! We do NOT weaken ourselves with luxurious frippery! We prefer an edifice that prepares our hearts and minds for BATTLE!!!
Props to anyone who recognizes the reference :P
Haha, I love reading threads whining about the battlecloak. It's funny to read their exaggerations of how 'OP' the battlecloak is. It's a complaint as old as the game, and despite the fact that BoPs are deliberately underpowered to compensate for the 'OP' complaints, they STILL whine.
If the KDF faction has less playerbase, it's pretty much Cryptic's fault. They've mismanaged the faction from day one, because they were obviously not prepared to either fully develop the faction, or keep it as a mini-faction for endgame. The faction's been in limbo ever since. Even hardcore Klingon enthusiasts have limits to their patience, and Cryptic's been neglecting the faction for 3 years. Then there's the issue with the red UI, that drives more people away because it's grating on the eyes (and I can see how that would be the case, though it doesn't affect me). Cryptic never really gave the faction a fair chance and a truly solid footing. KDF players have had to adapt in response to Cryptic's neglect of the faction, and now most KDF players don't trust Cryptic's management any farther than they can spit them. . .and for good reason.
The only thing I've specifically hear them imply 'they lost money' on was the Bortas'qu, and we diligent KDF forum-goers have thoroughly explained WHY that is (short answer: it's a giant, useless space whale that doesn't really utilize its gimmicks that well, and only appeals to a very small minority of KDF players). It's Cryptic's own fault if they don't learn from past mistakes.
The reason why we want KDF to start from level 1 is to get a first crack at new players. That's THE prime reason why we've always wanted that. We want both factions to have an equal chance of drawing new players. As it stands: Players start Federation, spend 20-25 levels hearing about how the KDF are the stereotypical 'bad guys', and THEN get the option to play a KDF. This pretty much results in less players choosing KDF, because they've been sorta biased against them, or don't want to play both factions at once. In the end, it's all about fairness.
Yes, we understand that MMOs are in a constant state of development. However, players tend to lose patience when their favorite faction remains incomplete after 3 years of existence, and when the exclusives of said faction get sold off to the 'favored' faction. We also get ticked off when members of said 'favored faction' start 'suggesting' that ship traits/styles that are more KDF-oriented be added to their ships.
Remember when Federation players didn't have universal boffslot ship options? Remember when they didn't have carriers? Remember when they didn't have access to good KDF consoles? Remember when they didn't have these things, and STILL managed to win a fair amount in PvP? All these changes have conspired to make the KDF the maligned minority faction in-game, because there's less and less reason to play KDF because all the cool **** is given to the Federation whiners.
So yeah, pardon us if we're a tad bitter and prone to 'whining'. It's about all we can do, in the face of these injustices.
Let's face it, the Klingon Empire is a lawful evil empire, nothing wrong with that. It's fun to be the bad guy sometimes, other games are proof of this. The Horde in WoW, the Asmodians in ****, City of Villains, the Zerg and some of the Terrans in Starcraft and many more examples. There are even players in this game who want a playable Borg faction, although technically the Borg are chaotically good.
I personally don't care if they add anything to our group, nothing wrong with being focused and compact, just fix the bugs.
Besides -- I enjoy playing the Underdogs, and in this game, the Klingon faction is definitely the underdog -- there is a certain satisfaction and challenge in playing the underdog faction in a game like this, and succeeding at it as well as or better than the favored faction. I get a perverse delight in doing more with less, knowing that skill and knowledge of my ship's capabilities is what levels the playing field.
The Klingon faction in STO is the faction for those players who enjoy a challenge, and who in general tend to be more knowledgeable and skilled in piloting their vessels than their Federation counterparts. Federation players have a wide variety of ship types, many with special powers not available to the Klingon faction, that provides them with an edge in the game...Klingon players make up the difference by knowing their ships inside and out, and by understanding better the dynamics of how skills and equipment interact with each other...
Another reason I play Klingon is that the philosophy of the culture -- as defined by The New Generation and DS9 -- appeals to me. The idea of independent action built on a warrior philosophy foundation, and not words, defining you as a person -- and the idea of cutting to the chase instead of hiding behind artificial (and almost always bent or outright broken) rules such as the Prime Directive resonates with me. Finally...the Federation is pretty much a humans-only club, despite their words to the contrary. In contrast, the Klingon Empire, although violent and combative, provides equal opportunity to all of its member races if they can prove themselves as embracing the Klingon way.
I find it ironic that many Federation players would -- if they could -- embrace the Terran Empire of the Mirror Universe, which in many ways has some aspects of the Klingon Empire, but without the core warrior values which drive the Klingon culture. That also says something about the appeal of the Klingon Empire...but for these types of players, what they really want is the freedom to be outright conquerors using Federation starships...with no prime directive or other minor annoyances getting in the way...that has nothing to do with Klingon cultural imperatives or philosophy...although you will find some Federation players who think so.
At first. I'm star trek fan and sto brings to me little bit about this univers.
Second. I really liked DS9. It helped me to learn about Klingons. Worf is a ... Anyway! But Grilka and Martok. Oh my god...
Third. I like the way of kligon life. Duty, honor and Glory!
Fourth. When I started to run STF I was impressed about KDF players skill. More mature, more everything.
You know. As a fed captain, I tried running Terradome many times. I failed many times.
I ran terradome with klingons friends only one time and we win. KDF is better.
Now it's my time whining and crying. Yes I want new ship, new mission, new episode, new uniform. Because I want cryptic treat me equal with fed.
Nobody has been led to believe anything of the sort. There is no theory, no belief. We have been explicitly told that its a tutorial and only a tutorial as far as KDF specific content goes
9 missions and a handful of ships. after 3 years of development, its also gatelocked behind another faction so you can't even play it when you sign up. sounds like a misrepresented product to me
1. No it hasn't
2. What content would that be exactly?
Its not content. Don't make excuses.
Is this a serious question? Lets see -- so people will play it. Thats a good start
And therein lies the question - knowing this why exactly are they developing a KDF tutorial at all?. and its not 'tutorial style stuff' its half the games worth of character building
Whoever said that isn't all that bright. By the time you start a KDF character you have been locked out of it till well after you have completed the fed tutorial and played through many missions. So you already know how to play the game.
There are no level 1 KDF players and won't be for the forseeable future. This is a fact
Because people, especially in management, do stupid things
No it doesn't. Especially considering we've been explicitly told the opposite is true for the expansion. Its the tutorial and only the tutorial
Are you serious? Are you really trying to tell people that something that uses a romulan phrase, has a romulan symbol and is in romulan colors in the ad is a reference to a KDF only story arc? That makes zero sense. None whatsoever
No it isn't
Because nobody would play it and because it would make no sense. Are you forgetting how small the KDF playerbase supposedly is or something?
And we have been told not to expect any content other than the tutorial in may too
I few Fed fleets call them selves TE and eagerly await the TE skins of ships.
Now why i play KDF: Easy dil grind through Empire defense, Orion girls, D7/K'Tinga, Orion Girls, the Voquv carriers, Orion Girls, Neghvar, Orion Girls, Slaver fighters, Orion Girls, Vorcha, Orion Girls, The new Battle Cruiser, Orion Girls, and Because they Klingons.
Now the problems with KDF is the Fed play requirement. get rid of that and there would be a boost on the KDF side. and you can have the KDF Gorn war and some House on House battles for 1-20 missions. And for more ships the Qurel class, the Kvort, and any fan made are options.
And let's not forget......Orion Girls
A warrior fights all the harder and earns more valor, the more adverse the combat! I don't need shiny new toys; my trusty rustbucket of a ship can still out-perform the newest Starfleet gizmo!
Some glory in their birth, some in their skill,
Some in their wealth, some in their body's force,
Some in their garments though new-fangled ill;
Some in their hawks and hounds, some in their horse;
And every humour hath his adjunct pleasure,
Wherein it finds a joy above the rest:
But these particulars are not my measure,
All these I better in one general best.
Honor is better than high birth to me,
Richer than wealth, prouder than garments' cost,
Of more delight than hawks and horses be;
And having it, of all men's pride I boast:
Wretched in this alone, that thou mayst take
All this away, and me most wretched make.
Of course, this reads better in the original Klingon...
For one, I'm not 'Klingon'. The toon's Orion, and its a nice TRIBBLE to stare at while the whole UI is nothing but red.
For two, I got a B'rel Retrofit, and working on a Fleet B'rel and having the Mirror Voquv become my engie's favorite ship.
For three, BoP pets! MIRROR BoP pets even!
And four, I have all my KDF toons in their B'rels scouring the galaxy for contraband. Very important, given all the nerfs to afk dil farming.
I like the KDF as they are now. All we're missing is Fleet Mirror ships and I'm good.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Well I'm not a stinky Klingon! I'm KDF! There are more then just Klingon here you know.
That aside, I still play the KDF because I like my Gorn, because disintigrating someone with a bite is hilarious.
I like my Varanus, it's one of the more practical looking ships I have seen in the whole game.
I uhh... well... no... that's all I really like about KDF. The rest of it is kind of meh or bleh, but I don't think those details are necessary for here.
To summarize, I play KDF for 1 species and 1 ship.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
2. Birds of Prey.
3. The Bortasqu' Battlecruiser.
4. I like the challenge of playing the underdog faction
5. For some reason, I get more of a 'spacefaring' feeling on the deck on Klingon ships then on Federation ships.
6. The Nausicaan designs.
7. The maturity of the playerbase. (Yes, I know that KDF players are not more mature, but since the numbers are lower - the number of immature trolls is low as a consequence. The fact that the KDF players have to rely on their skills and knowledge to counter the new Fed. toys also goes in this direction. Frankly, I have seen only one idiotic debate on Qo'noS so far, while whenever I log into ESD there seems to be one.)
8. To support balance in STO.
9. The artwork. (Cryptic may add KDF stuff only once in a while, but you must agree that when they do, it usually looks epic & awesome!)
10. The KDF has more feel of belonging in Star Trek than the Federation atm.
My ten basic reasons.
Oh, yeah, and also everything ztempest said!