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BIG concerns over possible PvP reputation
darramouss1
Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
Hello all.
I'm a big fan of the game, and whilst some decisions I've not agreed with (tricobalt nerf springs to mind), I generally like the direction that the game is travelling in. One aspect that I've grown to appreciate is the reputation system. I like that it gives you something to work to and that it's a system that can be built upon. (Long have I advocated systems like fleets, bases, embassies and reputations as systems can be built upon.)
I have to admit that I'm NOT looking forward to the possibility of a PvP reputation system. PvP is an OPTIONAL aspect of the game. A lot of people, like myself, don't want to have to PvP in order to get stuff.
Playing PvE is pretty much a required part of the game. I defy anyone to tell me that they have a toon that has not done any PvE. You don't take a level 1 toon in to PvP. You level the toon up and then take it to PvP if you choose to.
I believe that PvP is broken. I know I'm not alone as I read threads stating that PvP is broken. Also, if it wasn't broken why would there be talk on Cryptic's part about fixing it?
Just to make sure I wasn't being completely one sided in my opinion I went in to PvP with various ships of mine. One ship of each type, to be specific. They were chosen as per the following criteria.
Escort - Best DPS. Something that pumps out death. It's rare that it's not the highest damage dealer in an eSTF. VERY rare.
Science - Something that mixes shield survivability with high end sci damage abilities. It has a very respectable DPS. It's rare that it's not either the 1st or second highest DPS in an eSTF.
Cruiser - An equal mix of DPS and tanking. This ship quite happily sits under a cube in elite Cure and takes out the probes without worrying about dying.
I played two games with each ship. For the sci and cruiser I died at LEAST 4 times per kill. In almost every game I was the very first target of the match; the first on my team fired upon. Makes you think that the enemy thought I would be the easiest target.
The escort? I got a 7 and 0 and a 9 and 0. I also found myself targeting the cruisers and science ships as they were the easiest to kill.
I'm sorry, but to me this seems broken. For players to target non-escorts right from the start shows that it's recognised that they're weak. For me to gravitate to killing non-escorts in the span of a few kills means that I recognised that they were weak.
From my limited experience, combined with the vast number of threads I've read about PvP being (primarily) the domain of the escort shows that it's broken.
If you make a PvP reputation players with escorts will max it out very speedily whereas people who don't fly escorts will take forever. This is unfair and should not eventuate.
I'm a big fan of the game, and whilst some decisions I've not agreed with (tricobalt nerf springs to mind), I generally like the direction that the game is travelling in. One aspect that I've grown to appreciate is the reputation system. I like that it gives you something to work to and that it's a system that can be built upon. (Long have I advocated systems like fleets, bases, embassies and reputations as systems can be built upon.)
I have to admit that I'm NOT looking forward to the possibility of a PvP reputation system. PvP is an OPTIONAL aspect of the game. A lot of people, like myself, don't want to have to PvP in order to get stuff.
Playing PvE is pretty much a required part of the game. I defy anyone to tell me that they have a toon that has not done any PvE. You don't take a level 1 toon in to PvP. You level the toon up and then take it to PvP if you choose to.
I believe that PvP is broken. I know I'm not alone as I read threads stating that PvP is broken. Also, if it wasn't broken why would there be talk on Cryptic's part about fixing it?
Just to make sure I wasn't being completely one sided in my opinion I went in to PvP with various ships of mine. One ship of each type, to be specific. They were chosen as per the following criteria.
Escort - Best DPS. Something that pumps out death. It's rare that it's not the highest damage dealer in an eSTF. VERY rare.
Science - Something that mixes shield survivability with high end sci damage abilities. It has a very respectable DPS. It's rare that it's not either the 1st or second highest DPS in an eSTF.
Cruiser - An equal mix of DPS and tanking. This ship quite happily sits under a cube in elite Cure and takes out the probes without worrying about dying.
I played two games with each ship. For the sci and cruiser I died at LEAST 4 times per kill. In almost every game I was the very first target of the match; the first on my team fired upon. Makes you think that the enemy thought I would be the easiest target.
The escort? I got a 7 and 0 and a 9 and 0. I also found myself targeting the cruisers and science ships as they were the easiest to kill.
I'm sorry, but to me this seems broken. For players to target non-escorts right from the start shows that it's recognised that they're weak. For me to gravitate to killing non-escorts in the span of a few kills means that I recognised that they were weak.
From my limited experience, combined with the vast number of threads I've read about PvP being (primarily) the domain of the escort shows that it's broken.
If you make a PvP reputation players with escorts will max it out very speedily whereas people who don't fly escorts will take forever. This is unfair and should not eventuate.
Post edited by darramouss1 on
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Comments
Problem solved.
Partaking the PvP Reputation system will also be completely optional.
This goes true for the other reputations that are currently in game as well.
Just because you want it, doesn't mean it's mandatory nor does it mean you should get it just because you want it.
So you're saying that people who don't want to partake should just miss out on new equipment?
If you're not willing to partake of the content, why should you be given the reward? It's analogous to asking for gear from the Romulan/Omega reps without doing anything.
Actually, why not? When you think about it, playing a specific section of the game is just as optional as getting a specific piece of gear. You don't absolutely have to get every new piece of equipment, just like you don't have to get every set, nor do you have to get every ship.
If you're a collector, well then, that's the price you have to pay to collect.
Let me put it this way. If someone doesn't want to do an STF/Romulan content, he/she will miss out on the gear from that rep track. In the same way, if he/she does not want to PvP, he/she will not get the gear from that track. It's just common sense.
In the basic, lowest level of PvP, yes, escorts will prevail. It is once teamwork comes in that the Sci debuffer and the Cruiser healer will truly shine. In such games of higher-level PvP, each career has its role.
Furthermore, PvP reputation progression speed does not necessarily change based on ship. In STFs and such, I am sure that you notice that you get the same amount of marks, and hence progress at the same speed no matter what ship you are using! Therefore, based on previous experience, I would say that your point is not really valid.
*sigh* I don't know why I'm bothering. The high lords of PvP will start crying and PvP reputation will happen, just like their whining resulted in tricobalt nerfs.
While true, Epohh hunting is just one exception. Omega marks, on the other hand, require you to play STF/Defera content, where the only major variation is between ground and space. Your 'one way' to get PvP marks is actually divided into Cap & Hold along with Arena, with both space and ground variations i.e. 2 mission types, in the same way STFs have 4 mission types, space and ground.
Then don't! Not having access to any PvP gear will certainly not affect your playstyle. In fact, you won't even be affected by the lack of such gear, assuming you do fine now. Therefore, whether PvP reputation happens or not is simply irrelevant to you.
I also have little interest in PvP (I really dislike MMO PvP) but I can't see an issue here: what's available in the Omega and Romulan stores is more than man enough for any part of the game, even the Fleet gear is, so missing out on new equipment that you don't need is hardly a big loss. If you really want it then you'll have to PvP to get it, just as those that don't like PvE had to PvE to get the STF gear so they could have the best equipment available to them for PvP.
TBH I'd be more concerned if I did like PvP: there's going to be a massive number of leachers in every match trying to get the gear with no effort on their part.
Tric Torpedoes didn't need that last fix but mines definitely did. When I can out damage good Tac Escorts in a Sci ship with Tric Mines, Chroniton Spread and Grav Well there's a problem. I'm not actually seeing this huge nerf anyway, they're just as nasty now but lack the huge overkill spikes they once had but in return can be dropped twice as often. My Sci Vesta is still running a [CrtD]x3 out back with a DPB2, it may not be what it once was but it's still the most potent weapon I can put in the aft slot.
So you don't care about balance and want any game rewards restricted to how you want to play the game.
It's funny there is this game I'm playing and I don't particularly like the pve content (its too easy and repetitive) but I like the pvp in the game. Still I have to pve to obtain gear the keeps me competitive pvp.
Can you guess what that game is called?
Your Ramming Speed III deals 52098 (99235) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Remus.
Methinks this is more relevant than your entire argument. You don't like PvP. We get that. It doesn't mean you have any more right to demand unreasonable concessions from the PvP community than the PvP community gets to demand unreasonable concessions from the PvE community.
And yes, demanding full access to rewards so you don't have to partake in a specific type of content is included in the "unreasonable concessions" category.
I never had a problem with the sets before, thanks to the rep system I can't get them short of deleting my character and playing everything again.
ANYWAY, pvp rep can go 1 of 2 ways for me.
A) you have to win matches to earn pvp marks
Do fixed matches with fleet, never actually pvp anyone and stop at the end of the rep.
b) you earn pvp marks losing.
Do fixed matches in public, never actually pvp anyone (remove shields, turn shield power down etc.) and stop at the end of the rep.
Until pvp is inheriently revamped the rep system wil only artificially prolong life either which way.
They could of course also chose to add gear that is only functional in pvp in which case I won't be showing up at all.
I counter with making the best gear in the game available ONLY from playing PvP.
Wanna play easy mode only, then you only get mediocre gear.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
No, that totally won't be exploited.
500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
Just like the only way to get New Romulan gear is to do New Romulan content. I'm not sure why you think PvP gear should be different.
I don't care for PvP in MMO's myself. If I want to do PvP I'd play something designed around it like a FPS or something. So I'm not some "PvP Lord" or anything.
But what you're asking for is both unreasonable and ridiculous. You're asking for a way to get PvP rewards without actually playing PvP.
Best for PvP? By all means. Best for everything? I'm dubious.
This has my vote. Brilliant idea.
So you have to play the best mode to get the best gear? You'll need the best ships for that and we all know that the best ships are escorts. Let's just rub the noses of cruiser and sci captains in it once more, shall we?
No, I'm saying that there should be NO PvP reputation until PvP is fixed. The reason more people don't play it is because it's broken.
So now we've got "unnerf my tricos", "I hate PvP" and "nerf the escorts while you buff my cruisers". Can you throw in some KDF vs. Fed stuff so this thread is officially 100% derailed?
That's a highly subjective statement. I'm not saying PvP doesn't need to be fixed, but PvP has never been very popular in this game.
Sorry that your Pinto can't keep up with the McLaren, guess my story of killing a bugship with white gear wouldn't interest ya.
:P
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
If you don't want to partake in Elite STFs you can never get MK XII Set gear.
If you don't want to do STFs, Red Alerts or Defera, you can not partake at all in the Omega Rep system.
If you don't like doing Tau Dewa stuff, the or New Romulus missions or hate chasing Epoh's then you can't progress in the rep system.
This game is very escort-centric. This is a recognised issue with the game. Considering that Star Trek was NOT designed to be a series revolving around combat I think it needs to be changed. I play this game PRIMARILY because it's Trek and I can assure you that I'm not the only one. I want a more Trek experience.
Let's look at the current reputations.
Omega - You have to stop the Borg. The Borg don't negotiate so I can understand that combat is a big part of it, but you also help the people of Defera resist the Borg. This sounds VERY Trek to me.
Romulan - You're helping the Romulans build a home for themselves. Some of it is combat but you can also help them by doing animal research, repairing stuff, motivating their people and other assorted tasks. This sounds VERY Trek to me.
Possible PvP - Blow up other people. Hmmm. Not very Trek to me...
As for escorts, no, they shouldn't be nerfed, but they do need to be adjusted. Here's a thread where I outlined some changes that could be made to them that would require some buffs to them to make them perform more like they do on tv.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=562861
The issue with escorts is their tanking ability combined with their huge DPS. Make the escort a ship that needs to move to stay alive and you've got yourself some VERY dynamic combat.
One of the most powerful Captain / Ship combos in PvP is Sci/Sci, in PUGland with bad players, sure Escorts can kill some un-prepared, poorly built ships with ease.
In a real match with good team vs. good team, it requires coordinated strikes with Sci captains and Tac captains to get kills on the scoreboard and multiple healers are required for success.
Just in case if you did not know ALL rep systems are OPTIONAL....nobody is putting a gun on anyone to do them. Same goes with Omega and Romulan...:D
Sorry but the logic does not make sense...PvP is also highly optional like anything else in STO...you are free to play whatever your wish. If you don't like PvPs...doesnt mean others don't...:cool:
I'll also bet that there are more non-PvPers than PvPers. Why should the majority miss out?
So by that logic since I'm a KDF PvP'er who doesn't participate in the rep systems I deserve to miss out ?
The BEST gear is already part of a system that tho optional, is mandatory if you want the gear. Why should the PvP rep system treat players any different that the current system ?
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Following that logic...
Why should the majority of players who don't make millions of EC on the exchange stay poor? One time payment of 200 milllion EC to everyone.
Why should the majority of players who don't take full advantage of their alts to rack up piles of dilithium be left behind? Let's just give everyone a daily stipend of 50,000 refined dilith per character.
Why should the majority of players who don't use the foundry be saddled with the headaches that come from it? Delete the foundry and all foundry missions permanently.
Why should the majority of players who don't play KDF be saddled with a second faction? Let's delete the entire KDF too.
Fanfiction! ZOMG! Read it now!
kate-wintersbite.deviantart.com/art/0x01-Treachery-293641403
You haven't seen the bunnies I've seen.
Now THERE'S a lot of hyperbole.
EC can be made by playing PvE, which is the game's primary method of game play.
Dilithium can be made by playing PvE, which is the game's primary method of game play.
The foundry contributes to PvE, which is the game's primary method of game play.
The KDF should be given more content as they've asked. The content that's been asked for? More missions that enable klinks to start at level 1. That sort of content sounds like PvE. Guess what that is? The game's primary method of game play. (I don't play klinks but feel for them. They need more and that more should be taken care of BEFORE PvP reputation.)
I tried following your logic but it didn't work. Sorry.
It is perfectly clear that the majority of content is PvE. I think it's also very clear to say that the majority of players are PvE as well. If not, there would have been more love given to PvP. Given that only the minority can benefit from a PvP reputation that seems like a waste of resources.
If PvP was fixed, then that would be a different matter as I suspect there would be more people willing to try it out. Until then, love should be given to the majority, not the minority.
Considering it's your own logic at work, that should tell you something.
You do realize that predicating your entire position on Cryptic making logical decisions is probably not the best way to get people to come over to your line of thinking right?